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Should Liberty hall be demolished and be replaced by a monstrosity?

24

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Ireland's largest union, they are not short of money and have their strike fund built up while other unions have mismanged their strike funds and have no reserves
    Siptu has built up a near €35m fighting fund in case relations between employers and unions deteriorate even more. The union's "strike" fund or the industrial contingency fund contained €18.4m, having been topped up by €2m last year. A further €2.5m has been ploughed into the fighting fund in recent years. Siptu's general fund contains another €16.3m

    They have so much money they were able to spend over a quarter of a million on this
    the union spent €266,771 on "heritage assets". The files note: "During the year Siptu purchased an original copy of the 1916 Proclamation."

    Took a lot of members subs to buy that document


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    How is the thread biased? :confused: Because some people don't agree with your point of view?

    Literally, the world 'monstrosity' is in the title. Clearly the OP has no bias there :rolleyes:.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    heybaby wrote: »
    I would love to know who is going to pay for any new construction in Liberty Hall's place and why do siptu need such a large building in the first place ?

    It would seem to me a rather short sighted move by any union that has so much dependence on state services and also the high possibility of mass privatisation at its doorstep. We may yet see crows by the hundred scatter from the chimneys of Liberty Hall and SIPTU when this takes place.

    The tax payer may end up footing the bill for a half completed monstrosity when the time comes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    It would seem to me a rather short sighted move by any union that has so much dependence on state services and also the high possibility of mass privatisation at its doorstep.

    Most SIPTU members don't work for the public service

    It's the largest private sector union in Ireland

    Maybe you know this already and I'm misreading your post, I'm not sure


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭latenia


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    Ireland's largest union, they are not short of money and have their strike fund built up while other unions have mismanged their strike funds and have no reserves

    €35M divided between 200,000 members is €175 per person-not a whole lot when their average subscriptions are over €200 a year each and (I'm guessing here) a lot less than the construction costs of this new building.

    I'll be looking very closely at the funding for this, particularly to see if their Labour Party comrades decide to siphon off public money in the form of grants or tax breaks.

    On the building itself, anything higher than the Custom House should be blocked by An Bord Planeala-refusing permission for a hospital in Phibsboro on grounds of visual amenity then allowing it for something which spoils the view of Dublin's finest building from its busiest street would be hypocritical.

    If they really need the space there are plenty of available sites available just a few hundred yards down the river.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,109 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    Of course it'll be cleaner and more modern (it'll be newer)

    The problem with anything 'modern' is that it very quickly isn't 'modern' anymore.

    I prefer things that are good. And that will last the test of time.

    I have to admit I'd miss the existing building. Returning the exterior to it's original look might be better.

    I read some muppet of an architect object to the new building and suggest SIPTU move to somewhere 'more convenient' on the M50. It nearly made me cry to read an architect suggesting a location like that. But maybe that's for another thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Ben D Bus wrote: »
    The problem with anything 'modern' is that it very quickly isn't 'modern' anymore.

    I prefer things that are good. And that will last the test of time.

    I have to admit I'd miss the existing building. Returning the exterior to it's original look might be better.

    I read some muppet of an architect object to the new building and suggest SIPTU move to somewhere 'more convenient' on the M50. It nearly made me cry to read an architect suggesting a location like that. But maybe that's for another thread.

    ugh more urban sprawljust what this city needs:rolleyes:, I really hope somebody recognises soon that Dublin will eventually actually need to start growing upwards, it can only keep growing outwards for so long.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Toby Take a Bow


    Literally, the world 'monstrosity' is in the title. Clearly the OP has no bias there :rolleyes:.

    Ah, sorry. I thought you meant the thread in general, not the title.
    Ben D Bus wrote: »
    The problem with anything 'modern' is that it very quickly isn't 'modern' anymore.

    I agree, I was responding to a poster who was saying it'd be more modern, which technically it would be (at least in the short term). The Liberty Hall that's standing is a fairly good example of a modern building which quickly loses its modern 'sheen' (through bad planning).

    And I'd definitely disagree on the M50 type thingy. If they were to build a nicer building on the Liberty Hall site, they could feasibly make money by renting out the extra space (if/when office space starts getting a high return: might be a good idea to build something now with lower construction costs and hope for an eventual end to our current economic misery and make a nice profit).


  • Registered Users Posts: 865 ✭✭✭A Disgrace


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    ugh more urban sprawljust what this city needs:rolleyes:, I really hope somebody recognises soon that Dublin will eventually actually need to start growing upwards, it can only keep growing outwards for so long.

    The 'tall building phobia' in this city is staggering. We have one of the worst examples of urban sprawl in the world, and all of its knock-on effects, like uneconomical transport routes and long commutes, and the only way forward is to start putting more people into the centre of the city. I know a rebuilt, or just retained Liberty Hall isn't going to have any affect on any of this, but we have to start thinking about getting over this 5-stories-is-enough rubbish.

    Put a tall building on a corner, and you get more people on that corner every day. You then more get cafes and other businesses popping up around that corner too, and a decent bus or luas service, because there are more customers. It's simple economics. Practically every other capital city has done this.

    I'm a conversationalist by nature and love Georgian Dublin and the rest of the historic core, but there are loads of areas where the historic city has already been destroyed due to terrible planning so to use the usual excuses is wrong.


    Arguing that the demolition of Liberty Hall will improve the view of the Custom House is ridiculous. The loop line bridge is still (and always will be) directly in the way, and in fact, the presence of Liberty Hall actually helps to frame the view, slightly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    I'm nearly always in favour of iconic structures staying, despite aesthetic shortcomings - take the Poolbeg chimneys for example, but Jaysus, Liberty Hall really is a boil on the arse of the city centre.

    I'm not against tall buildings either.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    It's a horrible building always hated by the residents of Dublin. Lol comparing it with the loved Empire state building! That's like comparing Marilyn Monroe with Joe Duffy


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,909 ✭✭✭Neeson


    I wouldn't like to see it go. I suppose you get used to it.

    The new version looks far too big anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭SHOVELLER


    If the new version is a "montrosity" where does that leave the eyesore that is the current structure?

    It is amazing how some cannot see how dreadful Liberty Hall is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,230 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Building a new liberty hall could finally convince planners that we need to build up, not out. Dublin's sprawl is already ridiculous. Very little is higher than 6-8 stories, with some few and far between exceptions, and most buildings are around 3-4 stories high in the city centre.

    If there was even a small chance putting in a 22-storey bulding might encourage more high-rises, then I'm all for it. As it is, I'm quite attached to liberty hall and wouldn't mind it staying, save for the above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    You can have skyscrapers and historical architecture. Boston is a great example. All it takes is smart planning and design......oh wait :rolleyes:

    Oh and whoever compared the Art Deco gorgeousness of the Empire State with the 60s cheapo conrete style of Liberty Hall deserves flogging.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭SHOVELLER


    I agree with the concept of skyscrapers but there are issues with shadows, sunlight, space etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Take Hawkins House with it please

    Horrible building.
    The council should have a raffle or some sort of competition so someone from the public gets to push the button and set off the charges


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    AFAIK Hawkins House is due for demolition once they secure the replacement


  • Registered Users Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Lollymcd


    Have any of you been inside Liberty Hall?

    It's cold drafty and dirty. I don't know how people work there, it's extremely depressing once inside. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't qualify as one of those "sick buildings"

    It's also really deceptive, it looks big but when your inside it's actually quite small.

    I was there for a union meeting last year (I'm private sector btw) I stood looking out of the window and there was a really strong breeze blowing in my face even thought the window was closed.

    IMHO what ever they put in place will be no worse than Liberty Hall as it is now. I also think it would attract tourists who would like to climb to the top for the views of Dublin city, bay and mountains.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Level Liberty Hall with unions inside.

    Level Hawkins House with Min for Health inside.

    etc.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    AFAIK Hawkins House is due for demolition once they secure the replacement
    It looks like this building will be here for quite a while.

    Where is the department of health doing to come up with the cash for a replacement.?

    http://www.streetsbroadandnarrow.com/2011/08/theatre-royalhawkins-house-hawkins.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,567 ✭✭✭delta_bravo


    Hoping that whenever they do demolish Hawkins house that the demolition is a botch job and also takes down Apollo house. Another awful building.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    Ireland's largest union, they are not short of money and have their strike fund built up while other unions have mismanged their strike funds and have no reserves



    They have so much money they were able to spend over a quarter of a million on this
    >copy of the Proclamation <

    Took a lot of members subs to buy that document

    At least it stayed in the country...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Hoping that whenever they do demolish Hawkins house that the demolition is a botch job and also takes down Apollo house. Another awful building.
    If the council replaced the horrible Soviet Union era green cladding on the side of the building and tidied the place up it wouldn't look so bad. It would also save the taxpayer millions on reconstruction costs. .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    neris wrote: »
    Knock the horrid thing (prefrebly with jack and the other cronies inside)

    There could be a huge market selling pieces of concrete from the knocked tower. Look at what happened to the Berlin wall. Millions of souveniers around the world. Lots of people would love souveniers of the actual building the trade union leaders - social partners to the government which wrecked the country during the tiger era - operated from.

    Knock it, it gives me shivers every day when I see it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Toby Take a Bow


    gigino wrote: »
    Knock it, it gives me shivers every day when I see it.

    You should get that looked at.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    gigino wrote: »

    Knock it, it gives me shivers every day when I see it.
    You should consider wearing blinkers. :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    I enjoyed it when it was like this:



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭Mr Simpson


    AFAIK Hawkins House is due for demolition once they secure the replacement

    Shouldn't be too hard considering the amount of empty office space under NAMA in Dublin.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    mmcn90 wrote: »
    AFAIK Hawkins House is due for demolition once they secure the replacement

    Shouldn't be too hard considering the amount of empty office space under NAMA in Dublin.
    Replacement building. Plus it's not that easy, one cannot simply walk into an office just because it's in NAMA


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