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Those Ads...

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭lilmissprincess


    YD have always disgusted me with their tactics for promotion - the fact that they are allowed to put up posters/hand out leaflets in public areas accessible to all; not just mature adults, is to me something which needs to be examined - images of aborted foetus should not be something a young child is faced with, no parent should have the choice of whether to talk to their five year old about it taken away from them - which is what is done when they hand their leaflets to said five year olds.

    This campaign in itself is something which makes my blood boil to be honest. I was born in the same year as the X Case. Lots of legislative change has gone on in that time, in particular anything to do with taxation really - yet the criminalisation of women for making a personal choice is still ongoing, and those supposedly in charge of putting this legislation in (for the most part) will never be faced with that choice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    YD have always disgusted me with their tactics for promotion - the fact that they are allowed to put up posters/hand out leaflets in public areas accessible to all; not just mature adults, is to me something which needs to be examined - images of aborted foetus should not be something a young child is faced with, no parent should have the choice of whether to talk to their five year old about it taken away from them - which is what is done when they hand their leaflets to said five year olds.

    This campaign in itself is something which makes my blood boil to be honest. I was born in the same year as the X Case. Lots of legislative change has gone on in that time, in particular anything to do with taxation really - yet the criminalisation of women for making a personal choice is still ongoing, and those supposedly in charge of putting this legislation in (for the most part) will never be faced with that choice.

    Just to clarify having an abortion is not a crime in this country, its a crime to provide an abortion ie if you are a doctor and you carry out an abortion but the woman herself will not be charged or even questioned.

    What really annoys me is YD talk about wanting to look after the woman and all this crap but don't even have a phone number on the ad or website for women who are in need of help and support. Kinda makes it hard to take them seriously.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭panda100


    images of aborted foetus

    I highly doubt any of the pictures used by YD are of abortion foetus. Abortions are very,very rarely carried out after 20 weeks and all the foetus's featured in YD campaigns are well passed the 20 week stage.
    They use images of foetus's that are well developed, and so are most likely to be pictures of still born and miscarried babies.It really is absolutely heinous that they use these pictures at all.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    panda100 wrote: »
    I highly doubt any of the pictures used by YD are of abortion foetus. Abortions are very,very rarely carried out after 20 weeks and all the foetus's featured in YD campaigns are well passed the 20 week stage.
    They use images of foetus's that are well developed, and so are most likely to be pictures of still born and miscarried babies.It really is absolutely heinous that they use these pictures at all.

    Yup, I've talked to a few doctors about this and they have all said something along the same lines. The pictures are always most likely the results of late miscarriages. A truly horrendous thing for someone who is grieving a miscarriage or stillbirth to be confronted with on a random trip to town.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭lilmissprincess


    Sorry, I think I should have put inverted commas around that. It is what they cite as "aborted foetuses" - which makes it worse, in a way.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Rothmans


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Just to clarify having an abortion is not a crime in this country, its a crime to provide an abortion ie if you are a doctor and you carry out an abortion but the woman herself will not be charged or even questioned.

    What really annoys me is YD talk about wanting to look after the woman and all this crap but don't even have a phone number on the ad or website for women who are in need of help and support. Kinda makes it hard to take them seriously.

    I think you're wrong there. The law which regulates this is s58 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, states that it is illegal for a woman to 'procure' a miscarriage, with the punishment being 'to be kept in penal servitude for life'.

    Secondly, Irish law views abortion as murder (I'm not saying whether it is or it isn't), which also carries a life sentence, and in such cases she would be deemed to be just as guilty of murder as the principal (the doctor in this case).

    Back on topic, I'm no fan of YD and such OTT pro-life organisations, they are too aggressive for my liking, especially protesting outside cases where an abortion is necesarry such as the X case, or the more recent Miss D case.
    However, I'm not of the opinion that these adverts have crossed the line between freedom of expression and the public interest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Rothmans wrote: »
    I think you're wrong there. The law which regulates this is s58 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, states that it is illegal for a woman to 'procure' a miscarriage, with the punishment being 'to be kept in penal servitude for life'.

    Secondly, Irish law views abortion as murder (I'm not saying whether it is or it isn't), which also carries a life sentence, and in such cases she would be deemed to be just as guilty of murder as the principal (the doctor in this case).

    Back on topic, I'm no fan of YD and such OTT pro-life organisations, they are too aggressive for my liking, especially protesting outside cases where an abortion is necesarry such as the X case, or the more recent Miss D case.
    However, I'm not of the opinion that these adverts have crossed the line between freedom of expression and the public interest.

    I don't want to drag this too far off topic I think its important to clarify that for women who have had abortions or may be thinking and feel scared they may end up in trouble. I was paranoid prior to my own abortion I would be in trouble if it ever got out so looked in to it. I couldn't find any cases of women being charged with anything in relation to having an abortion.

    As far as I know no women in my living memory has been treated like a criminal for having an abortion. I remember dealing with an woman who had been left physically damaged after a backstreet abortion who ended up needing a lot of surgery, gardai did question her but to find out who was offering the service, there was no question she herself would be arrested or charged with anything. She was treated with nothing but the upmost sympathy and compassion.

    I don't know how you could charge a woman who aborts a baby when women who lose babies late in pregnancy due to violence etc don't get any justice on behalf of their child. I'm sure our statute books are way behind in terms of what we consider acceptable so it doesn't surprise me at all abortion is on a par with murder but I would be shocked to think any woman has ever been prosecuted over it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Shivers26


    eviltwin wrote: »
    As far as I know no women in my living memory has been treated like a criminal for having an abortion. I remember dealing with an woman who had been left physically damaged after a backstreet abortion who ended up needing a lot of surgery, gardai did question her but to find out who was offering the service, there was no question she herself would be arrested or charged with anything. She was treated with nothing but the upmost sympathy and compassion.

    When I used the expression 'treated like a criminal' or 'made feel like a criminal' I didn't mean by the guards or anything. More just the likes of YD making women feel like the lowest of the low of they make that difficult decision to go through with an abortion.

    It's good to hear the woman you know was looked after well in her situation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    For those who may be interested in reading the history of YD, their activities and where they have gotten funding from.

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/223658/210532.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭Naid23


    I have real issue with this campaign, IMO it comes across as if the woman is being forced into having an abortion.

    Its a very difficult but PERSONAL decision for any person to make and it should be left to that person to make the choice that is right for them and not to have people like YD making them out to be a bad person.

    The ads should not be allowed , there would be a big uproar if there was billboards saying 'Abortion is best' so why are YD allowed to have them plastered all over the place.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,844 ✭✭✭Honey-ec


    Joan Collins TD replied to my email on this campaign yesterday. She says a whole lot of nothing, really, but at least she acknowledged and responded to me, which is more than any of the others did:

    "Dear Eimear

    Thank you for your email. Another member of the United Left Alliance, Clare Daly has raised this matter through parliamentary questions of the relevant departments. As you may know, Clare and I were central to the private members motion on legislating for the X case.

    I am firmly pro choice and am deeply worried by campaigns designed to shame women for choices they have made. Thank you for your concern on this issue.

    Regards

    Joan"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 81 ✭✭RossPaws


    I just saw one of these ads today at the omni in Santry and I literally could not believe it.

    As well as sending a letter like the original post instructs (I've already done it, thanks so much for the link btw) is there anyone I can contact via phone or e-mail personally to complain, a TD or something? I live in Dublin, but I'm only gone 18 and I've no idea where to begin when it comes to phoning the appropriate people to complain about these things.

    Thanks in advance for any answers. I'm so annoyed!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭panda100


    Honey-ec wrote: »
    Joan Collins TD replied to my email on this campaign yesterday. She says a whole lot of nothing, really, but at least she acknowledged and responded to me, which is more than any of the others did:

    "Dear Eimear

    Thank you for your email. Another member of the United Left Alliance, Clare Daly has raised this matter through parliamentary questions of the relevant departments. As you may know, Clare and I were central to the private members motion on legislating for the X case.

    I am firmly pro choice and am deeply worried by campaigns designed to shame women for choices they have made. Thank you for your concern on this issue.

    Regards

    Joan"

    Fair play to Joan. I say you would never ever get response from a Fine Gael, Fine Fail or labour TD stating that they are firmly pro choice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    RossPaws wrote: »
    I just saw one of these ads today at the omni in Santry and I literally could not believe it.

    As well as sending a letter like the original post instructs (I've already done it, thanks so much for the link btw) is there anyone I can contact via phone or e-mail personally to complain, a TD or something? I live in Dublin, but I'm only gone 18 and I've no idea where to begin when it comes to phoning the appropriate people to complain about these things.

    Thanks in advance for any answers. I'm so annoyed!

    This link will help you find out who your TDs are.
    http://www.kildarestreet.com/tds/


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Piste


    panda100 wrote: »
    Fair play to Joan. I say you would never ever get response from a Fine Gael, Fine Fail or labour TD stating that they are firmly pro choice.

    Once of my local TDs got back to me, he's Fine Gael and while he didn't say he was pro-choice or pro-life, he said that the posters made him uncomfortable and that scaremongering is unfair as it prevents people from learning the facts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    There's an excellent take down of YD in today's Irish Times called "Facts still sacred despite Ireland's spectrum of conflicting views on abortion". Very interesting read if you get a chance to do so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,844 ✭✭✭Honey-ec


    There's an excellent take down of YD in today's Irish Times called "Facts still sacred despite Ireland's spectrum of conflicting views on abortion". Very interesting read if you get a chance to do so.

    Excellent, excellent article. I'm sharing this all over the place.

    Here's the link, for anyone who'd like to read:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0629/1224318966035.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    Very good article. Interesting that they don't even mention the "always" tagline either and focus on the other "tears" assertion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Interesting article. Only one problem, they have assessed the existence of PAS on a study of women in Denmark where abortion has been legal since the early 70's. As another poster mentioned when abortion is legal some of the stigma is taken away.

    We don't have that, we also have the added stress of having to make a decision and then make travel arrangements, there is very little in the way of pre abortion counselling, its hard to access decent post abortion counselling, when you come home its hard to find other women who will talk about it so you feel very alone.....

    I have no doubt PAS does exist, I had it myself but the only reason I had it was because I felt rushed into making a decision based on the time I could take off work, costs of flights etc. I really do believe if abortion had been available here I could have taken my time making the decision, gotten the right support and gone into it with my eyes open. As it was I don't think I really knew if it was the right decision or not.

    With a lot of therapy I now know it was the right thing to do and I have no regrets but it caused me a lot of unnecessary heartache I could have avoided if I'd been able to have the abortion here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Tomorrow evening (July 11th) there's a protest outside Leinster House against those awful Youth Defence ads, starting at 6.30pm.

    And this evening the folks behind the Unlike Youth Defence, I trust women to decide their lives for themselves. page are holding a poster-making event, starting at 7pm in Seomra Spraoi.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Sharrow wrote: »
    Tomorrow evening (July 11th) there's a protest outside Leinster House against those awful Youth Defence ads, starting at 6.30pm.

    Will try my best to make it this evening. I'm a bit nervous as I'm 5 months pregnant and I have experience of YD groups getting violent when people openly opposing them but I've enlisted my husband as 'bodyguard' so should be ok. It's so screwed up that a pregnant woman feels so safety cautious when it comes to dealing with pro-lifers but YD stink of hypocrisy and I would not trust the majority of them to actually give a damn about the life of any unborn who get in their way. I don't think it's just my paranoia either as I mentioned to a few people that I was hoping to go to this tonight and the first thing they all did was express worry for our safety.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Someone took those ads into their own hands in Bray... :pac:

    581988_10151106934589924_1045509274_n.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    iguana wrote: »
    Will try my best to make it this evening. I'm a bit nervous as I'm 5 months pregnant and I have experience of YD groups getting violent when people openly opposing them but I've enlisted my husband as 'bodyguard' so should be ok. It's so screwed up that a pregnant woman feels so safety cautious when it comes to dealing with pro-lifers but YD stink of hypocrisy and I would not trust the majority of them to actually give a damn about the life of any unborn who get in their way. I don't think it's just my paranoia either as I mentioned to a few people that I was hoping to go to this tonight and the first thing they all did was express worry for our safety.

    I'm going and am more then happy to stand with ye, there is always a garda presence at Lenister house anyway, so I don't think we'll have much hassle.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    abortion is not the answer being honest if it makes a woman think twice before termination then i think its a positive thing,im not against abortion though as funny as that sounds,granted if youre in the wrong relationship or your boyfriend is an asshole or a wife beater etc,its probably the better option,but in the long run sometimes you can look back in regret for what you have done,i wouldnt say abortion is for everyone..regret is hard to live with for some people and it really is..


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭Tigger99


    abortion is not the answer being honest if it makes a woman think twice before termination then i think its a positive thing,im not against abortion though as funny as that sounds,granted if youre in the wrong relationship or your boyfriend is an asshole or a wife beater etc,its probably the better option,but in the long run sometimes you can look back in regret for what you have done,i wouldnt say abortion is for everyone..regret is hard to live with for some people and it really is..


    Think twice? Every woman I know that's had an abortion has thought deeply about it. It such a deeply naive myth to state that women having abortions do it Willy nilly.

    It's so patronising, this attitude (not at you Christmas2012 but generally). Do people really think that women have abortions without considering the alternatives, and in many cases its the most heartbreaking decision that they will ever make, but it doesn't mean that its one that they will regret.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    I'm very happy to have been proved paranoid. Protest went well, I stayed for about an hour and there was absolutely no trouble at it.:)

    Didn't get to meet Sharrow though, maybe next time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Sorry I missed you iguana.

    There was between 300 and 400 people there, a good mix of men and women and the age group was mostly young people in their 20s - 30s.

    12+-+1



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,555 ✭✭✭Sar_Bear


    I was shocked to see this billboard recently. I think it should be a womans right to choose. And not have these billboards as a constant reminder or a guilt trip to any woman who has gone through this.

    Sent the letter to 4 of my TDs and to the advertising crowd. Thanks OP.

    Edit : I just went to the Advertising Standards Authority of Ireland and see that they will not be investigating this ad even though they have gotten numerous complaints. BS


  • Registered Users Posts: 756 ✭✭✭Laneyh


    abortion is not the answer being honest if it makes a woman think twice before termination then i think its a positive thing,im not against abortion though as funny as that sounds,granted if youre in the wrong relationship or your boyfriend is an asshole or a wife beater etc,its probably the better option,but in the long run sometimes you can look back in regret for what you have done,i wouldnt say abortion is for everyone..regret is hard to live with for some people and it really is..

    Wait .. What ? Abortion might be the answer depending on the circumstances
    or at least the only viable option. Saying its not the answer and then citing examples of when it might be appropriate is somewhat contradictory no ?

    Regret is hard to live with as is harassment, intimidation and social stigma.

    Abortion is illegal in Ireland, so is euthanasia but I accept that people travel abroad sometimes to resolve a situation as they see fit. I see nothing to be gained from a campaign which subjects these people to some kind of guilt trip.
    In a lot of cases they have already missed out on the normal aftercare involved post abortion as they have to return to Ireland

    If I try to take the campaign on face value I still can't see anything good about it to be honest
    It tells me that it tears women's and unborn children's lives apart - ok
    And there is always a better answer -ok

    I click onto the YD site to see what this better way is - do I find referrals to counselling services, a directory of healthcare professionals in my area, any information prudent to unplanned pregnancy, adoption options ? - a small amount of info buried within the site

    The campaign has failed if its aim was to provide women considering an abortion with a better answer. I found no answers on the site just scaremongering

    As an organisation YD do not support contraception or sex education and I don't know if it's part of their official line but most of them are anti gay also.

    So it seems to me they're pretty short on answers


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Well there seems to be a conglomerate of pro choice groups getting together, so this won't be the last demo or action. Over night I've seen more pro choice groups set up on facebook for different parts of the country so there will be more actions and demos to come.


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