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Couch to 5k as a transition to barefoot running...

  • 13-02-2012 7:58am
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭


    ...discuss.


    EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm talking about running in barefoot style shoes (ie zero mm drop and not cushioning), not with naked feet.


Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Bit of a random one I know, but after murdering my shins skipping and doing way too mcuh too soon (would you expect any different?), I'm trying to think of a way to transition to barefoot running with a structured plan that I can't f*ck up.

    C25k seems like it'd be a pretty decent option? Thoughts, etc?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭marathonic


    Back when I done the San Francisco marathon, there was an old man doing it barefooted - as in, well over pension age. Unfortunately, I didn't get talking to him after it.

    I suppose it depends on the person and what type of surface you're running barefoot on. I know that I'd have problems running barefooted on any type of road so the Couch to 5k wouldn't do it for me (I wouldn't even be able to do the 'brisk' walk as the warmup to the first session).

    If I were to do it, it would have to be done one of two ways:
    • Build up a base via walking (for however long it would take to get the feet accustomed to the road) before starting the Couch-5k program
    • Buy pairs of ultra thin socks and wear a few pairs to do the program, remove a pair and repeat the program and repeat until you're barefoot

    I'm not sure which option I'd choose if I were to do it. It seems a pretty mad thing to do but it'd be pretty funny looking at peoples faces when they see you joining in on 10k races barefooted in the summertime. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,755 ✭✭✭emergingstar


    After just buying a pair of vibrams myself after having wicked trouble with me Achilles, hoping ot will help
    Will be watching this thread with interest


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭mushykeogh


    Some people will be suited to barefoot running, so many others will not. Especially people with a history of Achilles problems, tibialis ant. shin splint stuff should probably avoid it, build up extremely slowly, or spend a lot more time addressing foot/calf issues before trying it!

    Must look at the couch to 5km program again but i think even that may be unsuitable for some. Trial and error i reckon!


  • Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭Doctor_Socks


    Was talking to none other then the Irish runner Paul Hession a few months back, he's from my home town and is a huge fan of vibrams, and he suggested walking in them for short distances at first and slowly progressing to long distances over a course of 6 months.

    It seemed really excessive but his reasoning for it was that he seen numerous people injure their calf muscles and the soles of their feet by trying to progress to quickly on them. I mentioned running in them to him and he told me to not even attempt it for at least 9 months as it takes a long time for your form to adapt from movement in standard runners for years to barefoot.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    Best advice I can give is run on a softer surface than a road e.g. grass, beach. Every runner going gets some sort of injury be it shin, knee, hip, back or w/e. It's never been proven but amongst the runners I know (small sample size, strong science incoming) the ones who run on the beach/football field get injured far less than the road runners (some of which run in those minimal shoes for free running or chi running or w/e it's called). If you're training for road races then obviously run on the road, but running on softer surfaces in barefoot shoes wouldn't be a bad idea to break you in a bit. Or just build up mileage barefoot, e.g. do 1km for a week, 2km the next etc. until you are doing 500km ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    Best advice I can give is run on a softer surface than a road e.g. grass, beach. Every runner going gets some sort of injury be it shin, knee, hip, back or w/e. It's never been proven but amongst the runners I know (small sample size, strong science incoming) the ones who run on the beach/football field get injured far less than the road runners (some of which run in those minimal shoes for free running or chi running or w/e it's called). If you're training for road races then obviously run on the road, but running on softer surfaces in barefoot shoes wouldn't be a bad idea to break you in a bit. Or just build up mileage barefoot, e.g. do 1km for a week, 2km the next etc. until you are doing 500km ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    Tried it.
    Failed due to crippling calf and shin pain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭dragonkin


    I started exclusively wearing barefoot shoes in mid September. Initially I walked to and from work (1hr each way) for a month. I had almost completly inactive glutes and was using my hamstrings and quads to walk so this transition was hardish, I also felt every little pebble and leaf on the pavement. After a few weeks my glutes started to develop and I found it easier to walk.

    The initial few times I walked I could feel the shock waves hitting the knee every time I put my foot down. It is very quickly apparent how messed up our bodies become after years of wearing shoes. My hamstrings in particular were (and still are) tight. I started to run about 2 months after that but not that much, initially I got bad pain in my heels and my calves were in agony as I was heel striking but my technique has improved slowly, I really wasn't doing a lot of running maybe once a week and I might have improved faster with more training but I was taking it slow as I felt it better to give my body time to adapt especially as my heels were sore, my calves needed to build up, all the muscles and tendons in the foot were weak, the arches are weak and in my case one was flat, the toes are in the wrong place etc. etc.

    I run on some pretty hard astroturf pitches but provided you don't injure yourself I don't think it it's a problem in fact I think the hard surfaces have helped my body transition as it tends to avoid pain as much as possible and the soft surfaces will let you away with bad technique. I run exclusively on astroturf however so I effectively skipped the 'soft ground' transition.

    In my experience it takes time and I've been doing a lot of mobility work as the main issues for me seemed to stem from lack of mobility in my hips and spine. After 5 months I can play matches on astroturf without any major heel problems, I still get sore heels sometimes but improvement is definitely happening. In my experience it is not simply strapping on a new pair of shoes but rather a systemic redevelopment of the body starting from the feet up.

    By the way it is almost impossible to transition back to normal shoes after wearing barefoot shoes for this long I've tried playing matches in astroturf shoes and walking in normal shoes but I'm in agony very quickly and in danger of pulling muscles.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    dragonkin wrote: »
    I started exclusively wearing barefoot shoes in mid September. Initially I walked to and from work (1hr each way) for a month. I had almost completly inactive glutes and was using my hamstrings and quads to walk so this transition was hardish, I also felt every little pebble and leaf on the pavement. After a few weeks my glutes started to develop and I found it easier to walk.

    This is relevant to my interests. You found that your glutes started working better through "barefooting" alone? Incidentally, what shoes?
    dragonkin wrote: »
    The initial few times I walked I could feel the shock waves hitting the knee every time I put my foot down. It is very quickly apparent how messed up our bodies become after years of wearing shoes. My hamstrings in particular were (and still are) tight. I started to run about 2 months after that but not that much, initially I got bad pain in my heels and my calves were in agony as I was heel striking but my technique has improved slowly, I really wasn't doing a lot of running maybe once a week and I might have improved faster with more training but I was taking it slow as I felt it better to give my body time to adapt especially as my heels were sore, my calves needed to build up, all the muscles and tendons in the foot were weak, the arches are weak and in my case one was flat, the toes are in the wrong place etc. etc.

    I run on some pretty hard astroturf pitches but provided you don't injure yourself I don't think it it's a problem in fact I think the hard surfaces have helped my body transition as it tends to avoid pain as much as possible and the soft surfaces will let you away with bad technique. I run exclusively on astroturf however so I effectively skipped the 'soft ground' transition.

    In my experience it takes time and I've been doing a lot of mobility work as the main issues for me seemed to stem from lack of mobility in my hips and spine. After 5 months I can play matches on astroturf without any major heel problems, I still get sore heels sometimes but improvement is definitely happening. In my experience it is not simply strapping on a new pair of shoes but rather a systemic redevelopment of the body starting from the feet up.

    By the way it is almost impossible to transition back to normal shoes after wearing barefoot shoes for this long I've tried playing matches in astroturf shoes and walking in normal shoes but I'm in agony very quickly and in danger of pulling muscles.

    Are you playing football?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭dragonkin


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    This is relevant to my interests. You found that your glutes started working better through "barefooting" alone? Incidentally, what shoes?
    Yeah I'm not sure it's possible to walk using barefoot shoes without using your glutes not unless you want your knees to fall to pieces anyway. Previously I was walking with a 'up and down' stride, with the barefoot shoes I was forced into a 'gliding' stride in order to stop jarring my knees. I've a pair of Vivo Dylans for walking (good as soles are flat and thin, not sure I'd recommend them however and not great for winter) and Vivo Neo trails for running (they've got grip but grip can dig into the foot so don't like them for walking). Just ordered inov-8 180s as well.

    Are you playing football?

    No hockey


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    dragonkin wrote: »
    Yeah I'm not sure it's possible to walk using barefoot shoes without using your glutes not unless you want your knees to fall to pieces anyway. Previously I was walking with a 'up and down' stride, with the barefoot shoes I was forced into a 'gliding' stride in order to stop jarring my knees. I've a pair of Vivo Dylans for walking (good as soles are flat and thin, not sure I'd recommend them however and not great for winter) and Vivo Neo trails for running (they've got grip but grip can dig into the foot so don't like them for walking). Just ordered inov-8 180s as well.

    I get you, I hadn't thought of that in terms of walking.....

    The Dylans look ok.
    Problem with so many Barefoot shoes is they all look so mental.

    dragonkin wrote: »
    No hockey

    Ah, of course.
    Durracle more like.

    Here is a question, a lot of people I know who play hockey have some lower back trouble. Have you suffered any?
    Notice any improvement since barefooting?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    I get you, I hadn't thought of that in terms of walking.....

    The Dylans look ok.
    Problem with so many Barefoot shoes is they all look so mental.




    New balance minimus trails and black Merrell trail gloves look relatively normal.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    dragonkin wrote: »
    I started exclusively wearing barefoot shoes in mid September. Initially I walked to and from work (1hr each way) for a month. I had almost completly inactive glutes and was using my hamstrings and quads to walk so this transition was hardish, I also felt every little pebble and leaf on the pavement. After a few weeks my glutes started to develop and I found it easier to walk.

    The initial few times I walked I could feel the shock waves hitting the knee every time I put my foot down. It is very quickly apparent how messed up our bodies become after years of wearing shoes. My hamstrings in particular were (and still are) tight. I started to run about 2 months after that but not that much, initially I got bad pain in my heels and my calves were in agony as I was heel striking but my technique has improved slowly, I really wasn't doing a lot of running maybe once a week and I might have improved faster with more training but I was taking it slow as I felt it better to give my body time to adapt especially as my heels were sore, my calves needed to build up, all the muscles and tendons in the foot were weak, the arches are weak and in my case one was flat, the toes are in the wrong place etc. etc.

    I run on some pretty hard astroturf pitches but provided you don't injure yourself I don't think it it's a problem in fact I think the hard surfaces have helped my body transition as it tends to avoid pain as much as possible and the soft surfaces will let you away with bad technique. I run exclusively on astroturf however so I effectively skipped the 'soft ground' transition.

    In my experience it takes time and I've been doing a lot of mobility work as the main issues for me seemed to stem from lack of mobility in my hips and spine. After 5 months I can play matches on astroturf without any major heel problems, I still get sore heels sometimes but improvement is definitely happening. In my experience it is not simply strapping on a new pair of shoes but rather a systemic redevelopment of the body starting from the feet up.

    By the way it is almost impossible to transition back to normal shoes after wearing barefoot shoes for this long I've tried playing matches in astroturf shoes and walking in normal shoes but I'm in agony very quickly and in danger of pulling muscles.

    Awesome - thanks. I was wearing them from work (45 minutes) but then skipped a ton in them and shredded my shins so had to switch back to my sauconys.

    Feel a lot better now so will start wearing them on the walk for the next couple of weeks and stretch couch to 5k out to maybe 1/2 the volume.


  • Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭dragonkin


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    Here is a question, a lot of people I know who play hockey have some lower back trouble. Have you suffered any?
    Notice any improvement since barefooting?

    I think the problem with the lower back trouble is that pretty much everyones hamstrings are too tight from sitting all day at work therefore they can't rotate at the hips but are forced to rotate at the waist instead, ideally when playing there should be very little curve in the spine and the hips are doing most of the dynamic work unfortunately unless you have this range and most people don't then it can cause trouble. Similar problem to people trying to squat and rounding their lower back.

    I definitely noticed a massive improvement in my game in particular my ankle range of motion and strength is much better and I can run faster and at a higher tempo without getting tried as I'm primarily using my glutes. The mobility work I've been doing is great too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 kelly40




    I started considering Barefoot running back around October after reading a few articles and went on to read "Born to Run".think that convinced me,
    so prepared myself by walking around for short periods in socks around the house,
    progressed to running my final mile on a treadmill in socks(can burn a little) at a slightly reduced pace,once a week.
    I ran my the remainder of my sessions in my runners.
    Then i got a pair of vibrams for Christmas, incorporated them into my runs ever so slowly, increasing my distance by a mile a week (for one day a week)at a pace that felt comfortable for me.
    my running gait changed quite quickly as my body stopped itself from heal striking.
    I would like to add that this happened naturally and automatically.
    I would start off striking a little for the first few minutes and then as i got used to them, this period of adjustment got shorter and shorter.
    I changed a normal running day a week into barefoot and then slowly phased out my runners completely and kept my mileage in the vibrams to about half of what i ran normally .and used the 5% increase per week rule after that.
    I believe as previous threads state.The key is to very slowly build up your mileage and to make sure you feet are used to walking around barefoot before you attempt any distance,and dont worry about speed.
    i found my running style has changed completely, and very much for the better, my recovery rates are much quicker and i feel less tired after a long run.
    i have had Achilles problems over the years and fell into the trap of buying the most expensive runners ,rotating them, changing them every 500 miles etc.
    i am so far more comfortable running and my times and distances are now in line to what they were in runners.
    Theres a lot of info on barefoot.ie and they have a link on facebook.


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