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Tonight With Vincent Browne Thread v2.0

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Bullsh1te - his life is repeated in every part of Ireland and not everyone that had no money turned out to be a druggie and a criminal, thousands of people grew up in families that had nothing but didn't go on to be criminals.

    So scumbags are just born that way then?
    vicwatson wrote: »

    The point is is that if 100 people come from a "disadvantaged" background, perhaps 5 of them will turn into druggie scumbag criminals, the other 95% will lead a law abiding life, but 100% are from the disadvantaged background, ergo, the far majority of people that come from a disadvantaged background will be law abiding citizens. Crime is a lifestyle choice.

    It's not just about where one was born or how wealthy one's family is, but what kind of parents one has. I think it goes without saying that any kids, say, Wayne Dundon has, are more likely to end up as criminals than the kids of the law abiding family living across the road. To dismiss sociological factors so summarily is not only to deny reality, but it's also to deny an understanding of crime and criminality which might be used to prevent it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Don't recall saying that. Perhaps you can remind?

    So you do understand that background does impact on a persons lifestyle choice ? Now we are getting somewhere !!
    The point is is that if 100 people come from a "disadvantaged" background, perhaps 5 of them will turn into druggie scumbag criminals, the other 95% will lead a law abiding life, but 100% are from the disadvantaged background, ergo, the far majority of people that come from a disadvantaged background will be law abiding citizens. Crime is a lifestyle choice.

    Everything involves choice, repeatedly highlighting that is a cop out from putting forward a real argument. Nobody has said anything about them having no choice but you cant deny that crime rates are higher in disadvantaged areas and its not simply because these people want more than anything else to be criminals and junkies.

    You think every factory worker in Ireland wants to be a factory worker ? Or you think most of them have to do it because there are very few other options available to them for supporting themselves ? Its the same in certain areas where crime is seen and taught to kids as a viable option to get money. For others addicted to drugs its the only way they can get the money to feed the habit, is there choice ? Course there is but saying they want to do that and will never do anything else is pointless. You have to try and figure out why they ended up that way and try to prevent others from following the same path.

    All well and good to call them all scum but people still have to deal with those scum and will always have to deal with those scum in ever increasing numbers unless the problem is tackled. We cant neuter them to stop them reproducing and we cant put them all down. So what do we do ? Just keep repeating "Crime is a life style choice" ? That probably wont do much I dont think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,383 ✭✭✭jimmyw


    I cant really take that Damien English fella seriously,(not I would anyway:)) with that accent of his:(.

    This "pathways to work crap" is only fiddling the numbers, cause technically these people who train are not unemployed, but their not working either:confused:.


  • Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭mossyc123


    He's talking a lot of sense in fairness...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    jimmyw wrote: »
    I cant really take that Damien English fella seriously,(not I would anyway:)) with that accent of his:(.

    This "pathways to work crap" is only fiddling the numbers, cause technically these people who train are not unemployed, but their not working either:confused:.

    Exactly. The government wants to take over the role of local industry.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭JonathanAnon


    mossyc123 wrote: »
    He's talking a lot of sense in fairness...

    I think he's been a lot better tonight. I've seen him being poor on this show, but he's good tonight.. Heard Joan Burton on today with Mary Wilson, and both of them were awful..


  • Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭mossyc123


    I think he's been a lot better tonight. I've seen him being poor on this show, but he's good tonight.. Heard Joan Burton on today with Mary Wilson, and both of them were awful..

    Moanfest!!!

    He is getting the better of VB IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    jimmyw wrote: »
    I cant really take that Damien English fella seriously,(not I would anyway:)) with that accent of his:(.

    This "pathways to work crap" is only fiddling the numbers, cause technically these people who train are not unemployed, but their not working either:confused:.

    English is a knob-head. The Government keep peddling this nonsense that unemployed people are scroungers and fraudsters. If they say it enough, then the public will start to believe it. At the height of the "Celtic Tiger" only 30,000 were long-term unemployed - evidence that the vast majority of people are not scroungers or fraudsters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    That English guy exudes all the normal arrogance that seems to be the hall-mark of the young FG TD's that appear on this programme, along with the added bonus of not bothering to speak in a manner that's easily understandable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,383 ✭✭✭jimmyw


    Its feckin ridiculous how short the programme is:(


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭bluefinger


    tv3 would want to sort out their scheduling. it's awful


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭D1stant


    jimmyw wrote: »
    I cant really take that Damien English fella seriously,(not I would anyway:)) with that accent of his:(.

    This "pathways to work crap" is only fiddling the numbers, cause technically these people who train are not unemployed, but their not working either:confused:.

    Damien English is like a guy from another era. He would have fitted right into the Dail in the 1950. But most TDs are like that. Bleating prat.

    And if they were honest - the only pathway to work the government can possibly help with is free one way tickets out of here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    English is a knob-head. The Government keep peddling this nonsense that unemployed people are scroungers and fraudsters. If they say it enough, then the public will start to believe it. At the height of the "Celtic Tiger" only 30,000 were long-term unemployed - evidence that the vast majority of people are not scroungers or fraudsters.

    The government peddle that? News to me. I was on the dole for over a year and never felt that i was being targeted in such a fashion.

    The fact that there were 30k long term unemployed on the dole at a time when jobs were plentiful, and we were appealing for workers from abroad to fill positions, is strongly indicative that there are quite a few scroungers and fraudsters on the dole. You seem to think that's ok. Perhaps you'd like to pay the share of my PRSI that goes to paying fraudulent claims so?

    I think it's ludicrous that when the government takes entirely appropriate measures to tackle social welfare fraud, they are condemned by some people. This programme isn't an attack on those on the dole; it's an attack on those who play the system for their own advantage, and fraudulently collect money that could be better spent elsewhere. You seem to have no problem with that; I for one would rather it be spent on Special Needs Assistants in schools and the like. I doubt I'm alone in that regard either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    Einhard wrote: »
    The fact that there were 30k long term unemployed on the dole at a time when jobs were plentiful, and we were appealing for workers from abroad to fill positions, is strongly indicative that there are quite a few scroungers and fraudsters on the dole. You seem to think that's ok.

    I wouldn't necessarily brand them as fraudsters or scroungers. Some of those 30,000 may have had literacy issues or mental health problems, such as anxiety or depression. There's a direct correlation between long-term unemployment and lack of education. I wouldn't be quick to label anybody without knowing their personal circumstances first.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    I wouldn't necessarily brand them as fraudsters or scroungers. Some of those 30,000 may have had literacy issues or mental health problems, such as anxiety or depression. There's a direct correlation between long-term unemployment and lack of education. I wouldn't be quick to label anybody without knowing their personal circumstances first.

    I'm not labeling them all. Indeed, not even the majority. But, as you stated, there were 30k people on the dole at a time of full employment, when employers were screaming out for people. I know some people who are long term unemployed, and for some of them it's a lifestyle choice.

    I just don't see what's wrong with targeting those who are gaming the system. If someone is legitimately collecting SW, they have absolutely nothing to hide.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    Einhard wrote: »
    I'm not labeling them all. Indeed, not even the majority. But, as you stated, there were 30k people on the dole at a time of full employment, when employers were screaming out for people. I know some people who are long term unemployed, and for some of them it's a lifestyle choice.

    I just don't see what's wrong with targeting those who are gaming the system. If someone is legitimately collecting SW, they have absolutely nothing to hide.

    During the "boom", I took part in a voluntary programme to help the longterm unemployed. Most of the people I met would have loved to be working but a lot of them had very poor literacy skills. A lot of them had low self-esteem issues as well and would not have fared well in a job-interview situation. Considering we had a huge workforce at the time, to have 30,000 long-term unemployed is a very low number in relative terms.

    A few months ago, Joan Burton made a very sweeping statement about the dole being a lifestyle choice, which I found to be nonsensical and very offensive. The fact that there were only 30,000 longterm unemployed (many of whom had legitimate reasons for finding themselves in such an unfortunate situation) during the boom is proof that the dole is not a lifestyle choice for the vast majority of people who currently find themselves unemployed. Sure, you'll always find one or two people who are workshy but that's the case in practically every country and is in no way representative of the overwhelming majority. It seems to me that Labour are taking the 'divide and conquer' route when it comes to social welfare. Far better to have neighbour pitted against neighbour, instead of us being concerned about how the bankers, developers and politicians of this country brought us to our knees in the first place.

    And yes, of course, if somebody is gaming the system they deserve to be targeted, but those people who are legitimately collecting social welfare should not be made to feel that they are scamming the system or that they have made a "lifestyle choice" for themselves.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,873 ✭✭✭Skid


    In other news, Cassie Stokes left TV3 yesterday and is emigrating. So no more of her unique insights into NAMA :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭artful_codger


    A lot of them had low self-esteem issues

    and do you think that giving them 180 euros a week to sit at home (not including the myriad of other benefits they get) is going to improve their self esteem? If we reformed our system so these people have to go out and do community work it might improve their skills.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    and do you think that giving them 180 euros a week to sit at home (not including the myriad of other benefits they get) is going to improve their self esteem? If we reformed our system so these people have to go out and do community work it might improve their skills.

    Depends on what you call Long Term unemployed. There are a huge number of people who are just not employable. Many of these are the long-term unemployed of the Celtic Tiger years. Did we effectively help these people get out of their cycle probably not. However the currently long term unemployed just don't have jobs to go to.

    The amount of money and perceived benefits that they get won't help them, but neither will taking such money away from them.

    You know we should focus on those that have well very paid jobs and who do very little.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,284 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Tonight's programme is on the euro crisis. Is anyone watching?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭take everything


    Constantin, Peter Matthews, Laura Noonan and Michael Taft on tonight.
    Jobs and Euro crisis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,284 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I hope now that someone's P60 doesnt come back as a error!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭take everything


    Interesting piece by Matthews in the Sindo yesterday about not paying back a significant part of the debt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,856 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Just switched on, I wonder will Vincent give Matthews a hard time about the rosary beeds! I just can't take him seriously after I heard about that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,024 ✭✭✭✭Oscar Bravo


    Nice pop at Vincent's haircut!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭take everything


    Nice pop at Vincent's haircut!!

    Vincent quick off the mark saying he got it from NAMA :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭JonathanAnon


    The IDA throw a load of concessions at these companies that they would NOT give to an indigenous company.. They give themselves a big pat on the back, and in a couple of years time when those companies p1ss off to Poland or China, the IDA are nowhere to be seen. Same as Dell, Gateway etc etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,988 ✭✭✭constitutionus


    i love when constantines on.

    always worth listening to, and mathews on to boot.

    least this shouldnt be a borefest.

    and oh look, lauras on for the comedy value !

    :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭JonathanAnon


    and oh look, lauras on for the comedy value !
    :)

    She's got that blouse draped across her front very provocatively.. I'd say Father O'Malley is ringing TV3 at the moment to complain.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭take everything


    I'm confused. :o


This discussion has been closed.
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