Could this spell the start of the end for FF

bmaxi · 26-02-2012 12:04pm

dvpower wrote: »

SF and who?

SF and whichever of the political parties gets enough seats to pass the magical 84 seats. If we've learned anything from this current Government it is that morals, principles and ethics mean fcuk all when compared to Mercs and perks. No doubt it will be "for the good of the country". Pure rhetoric, just like everything else they've spouted.

mikemac1 · 26-02-2012 1:11pm

blinding wrote: »

For utter incompetence and institutional corruption ff should be disappearing from the political scene.

Yet they still get 16% in a poll.

Many vote for the candidate and not for the party. This goes for all areas and all parties, there are always people like this

It's entirely possible the local FF TD is the best in the constituency.
And people look at that and not at the party front bench and policies

washman3 · 26-02-2012 1:17pm

ie we have learned anything from this poll, it is that there are still 16% of the Irish population still in need of urgent help...:D

raymon · 26-02-2012 1:29pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

It's entirely possible the local FF TD is the best in the constituency.

You are joking.....right ?

Do you have an example of a constituency where this is the case ?

mikemac1 · 26-02-2012 1:40pm

Based on my experience, Máire Hoctor in Tipp North who lost her seat anyway.
Minister for Health downgrades the hospital and the local TD gets the blame, always the way

Got to junior minister level but lost that job with the others when people said there were too many junior ministers

There was her, Michael Lowry and Noel Coonan who does nothing at all and barely campaigned at all.

You reckon Michael Lowry is the best or second best in the constituency? So are you joking right?

Hoctor was the only one to give good replies, not parish pump issues either. One was me asking about An Post and deregulation

You've taken one party and decided every single one of them is useless.
But in any organization there are good and bad members.

I'm not saying she was that good, she was better then the others though

Van Occupanther · 26-02-2012 1:41pm

bmaxi wrote: »

It makes my flesh creep to think that SF will ever form part of a government in this State but at this stage it looks inevitable. Labour deserve no better than what they are getting, they have betrayed their constituency. I would have expected no different from FG, even in good times they would have behaved the same way.

No matter what they say, all parties would go in with SF if they had to. Kenny and Bertie would have done it in 07 and I'm pretty sure Enda sounded out every non-FF TD before accepting that he was just short.

Also, given SF commitment to peaceful means why does the idea persist both here and in media that SF votes somehow have less value or legitimacy than other parties?

Nodin · 26-02-2012 2:53pm

raymon wrote: »

And the FF whinging continues .

This time they are complaining that Rte has a bias against them.

In their arrogance the don't realise that 84% of the country has a bias against them, except for 16% and a few FF shills in the Irish Independent and one in the Irish Times.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rte-news-bias-favours-laboursf-ff-inquiry-3031981.html

Come on Fianna Fail , when will your whinging stop

Having heard MM state on RTE's this morning that the current sell off of state assesets had nothing to do with the previous FF administrations policies, I'd have to say - never.

They needed to make a clean break after Cowan went, and putting MM in was not such a move.

raymon · 26-02-2012 4:17pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

Based on my experience, Máire Hoctor in Tipp North who lost her seat anyway.
Minister for Health downgrades the hospital and the local TD gets the blame, always the way

Got to junior minister level but lost that job with the others when people said there were too many junior ministers

There was her, Michael Lowry and Noel Coonan who does nothing at all and barely campaigned at all.

You reckon Michael Lowry is the best or second best in the constituency? So are you joking right?

Hoctor was the only one to give good replies, not parish pump issues either. One was me asking about An Post and deregulation

You've taken one party and decided every single one of them is useless.
But in any organization there are good and bad members.

I'm not saying she was that good, she was better then the others though

I see your dilemma. A poor field of candidates.

But lowry has been in the FF stable for years. Ever since he was caught taking dodgy money he was welcomed by FF into their alliance

Sierra Oscar · 26-02-2012 6:02pm

raymon wrote: »

Not true

Their last S&A poll was 20% in Dec for the times

Comparing apples with apples this represents 4% drop for FF

I had meant to highlight last night that the B&A had FF on 11% this time last year after the election, so FF support does seem to fluctuate widely within the B&A statistics.

The previous B&A poll did have FF on 20%, but the previous five polls before that had the party on 15% bar one which put the party at 16%. The RedC poll's have shown us that FF is staying between 16 - 18%, indicating that the previous B&A poll probably over emphasized the level of FF support.

The RedC poll next weekend is the one to watch - I would imagine it will show either a no change for FF or a very marginal increase.

EDIT: Although personally I feel that FF will likely go lower before the party starts to see any substantial rise in the polls - don't forget Mahon has yet to report.

Ellis Dee · 26-02-2012 6:10pm

raymon wrote: »

In the latest poll it looks like Michael Martins personal rating has dropped sharply, while FF remains to lose support due to it's widespread unpopularity

Their brand of whinge politics does not seem to be working.

The bad good news is that Sinn Fein is making huge gains

http://rte.ie/news/2012/0225/politics.html

Hopefully this spells the start of end of FF

FYP:D

raymon · 26-02-2012 8:21pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The RedC poll next weekend is the one to watch - I would imagine it will show either a no change for FF or a very marginal increase.

EDIT: Although personally I feel that FF will likely go lower before the party starts to see any substantial rise in the polls - don't forget Mahon has yet to report.

Yes looking forward to the RedC myself.

I don't think that FF will recover . I really hope they don't.

raymon · 26-02-2012 8:23pm

Ellis Dee wrote: »

FYP:D

dublinman1990 · 26-02-2012 11:21pm

This complaint really tells the way FF are really making a mess of themselves at the moment.

This still begs the question though; Why did FF just tell the communications committee in the oireachtas to make a complaint about the so-called 'bias' in RTE, if they have one, then they would refer it to the BAI instead?

The previous government and (with a possibility) of other parties had led us to be biased to a certain degree that was unreachable to the extreme in association with the mess of the financial system.

This party should be done away with and banished to the extremes of history IMO.

Mairead Farrell · 27-02-2012 12:26am

I think FF should be worried, the traditional rural nationalist vote, it's base since its foundation, is really under threat from Sinn Féin. These people would never vote Fine Gael, but Sinn Féin?

I think Fianna Fáil will start reverting to their nationalistic roots, if they don't I think they will be obliterated. I expect them to become increasingly nationalistic with the centenaries coming up, there are votes to be won. Sinn Féin have always been so, they are genuine in that respect, but I expect FF will be quite cynical in exploiting the centenaries for electoral gain.

A merger between FF and Fine Gael is the stuff of fantasy in my opinion. Will never happen, just suggest it to a FF member and see the reaction it gets.

Sinn Féin will be a govt party sooner rather than later, thats inevitable in my opinion. That said, they are already a govt party in Ireland. They want to be a govt party in both jurisdictions. They are playing a long game, the goal, a united Ireland.

Interesting times.

Eggy Baby! · 27-02-2012 1:40am

If Sinn Fein get in, everyone who doesn't have red hair and green eyes will get put in concentration camps, and the secret police, the SanS (Súile An Stáit), will patrol the streets with cudgels looking for dissidents. Gerry Adams will have a cult of personality and his role in the IRA will be ballooned whereas Martin McGuinness' role will be forgotten. There'll be murals on every wall of Adams holding an armalite firing at the Apprentice Boys. He will be proclaimed "Eternal Leader" and will be revered by everyone. Everything must be green. every song sung must be to the tune of "Amhran na bhFiann" and have at least 50% of the lyrics on pain of "re-education". Elections are outlawed, as are banks.

Enda Kenny will be shot, as will Eamon Gilmore. But Martin will be put into exile on Achill Island. Other opposition leaders will be exiled, arrested or killed. Media is censored and independent broadcasting is forbidden. State propaganda is everywhere.

Foreigners will of course be put in concentration camps.

We'll build an aircraft carrier for no discernible reason and call it the "Gerry Adams".

Peadar Toibin will become dictator of Meath.

Ireland will be renamed "The Warriors Holy Irish Republic of Saints and Scholars." And Northern Ireland is referred to in state media as "The British Bit".

We will leave the EU, the UN (citing "British banditry and imperialism" as the cause for both withdrawals) and all other international organisations. Adams will begin to ardently demand Fermanagh. When he gets Fermanagh, he will demand Tyrone. When he gets Tyrone, he will make all sorts of mad demands and then invade Britain for no reason.

So if you're in the army, expect to be relocated to sunny Belfast soon enough....preceded by an aerial bombardment.

Lol. Vote Sinn Fein!

Anyway no real political party does it for me. It'll be my first time voting in a general election this time coming so I dunno...

southsiderosie · 27-02-2012 1:57am

MOD NOTE:

Just a gentle reminder: if you cannot post in a civil manner, then don't post at all. Flamebait (and responses) deleted.

Back on topic please, folks.

quietriot · 27-02-2012 2:34am

I hope the EU takes complete control of this country before the ignorant, lazy, self-serving electorate here have a chance to vote SF into power.

The surge in support for them merely serves as more proof, if ever needed, that the average Irish voter is an absolute idiot who votes on a basis of what will they perceive will affect them the least and how they can "stick it to" the current government the most. They truly do not deserve the right to have their opinions heard, never mind a say in who runs the country and represents us at international level.

I would rather have Merkel at the helm, referendums abandoned and German introduced as a mandatory second language here than see the fumbling, terrorist-backing cretins that SF are in power.

Foghladh · 27-02-2012 2:42am

I wouldn't think that this spells the end of Fianna Fail at all. They've been hovering in between the mid-high teens ever since the election and at a time when they have every reason to be unpopular.
That says to me that this is their core support. That's a pretty large support base that the likes of Labour and SF can't call upon. If the poll is taken as accurate then the swing to SF would appear to have come mainly from the Labour account. The swing vote is a fickle thing though and by the time you discount the drop that will inevitably occur with the independent candidates anything is possible.
I'd agree that the FF Ard Fheis could be an important one for them. They'd really need to show something new in order to gain back some of that swing

bmaxi · 27-02-2012 12:40pm

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

Enda Kenny will be shot, as will Eamon Gilmore. But Martin will be put into exile on Achill Island.

There's me thinking it would be all bad news. :rolleyes:

GSF · 27-02-2012 12:56pm

Seems as if the future for the near term anyway is going to be 4 mid sized parties getting somewhere in the range of 15%-30% each with about 15% going to independents. So to form a government you are going to have several permutations:

1) FG + LAB
2) FG + FF
3) FG + SF
4) LAB + FF
5) LAB + SF
6) SF + FF
7) any of the above with independents

Probably the only realistic ones are FG + Lab or SF + FF

Van Occupanther · 27-02-2012 1:29pm

quietriot wrote: »

I hope the EU takes complete control of this country before the ignorant, lazy, self-serving electorate here have a chance to vote SF into power.

The surge in support for them merely serves as more proof, if ever needed, that the average Irish voter is an absolute idiot who votes on a basis of what will they perceive will affect them the least and how they can "stick it to" the current government the most. They truly do not deserve the right to have their opinions heard, never mind a say in who runs the country and represents us at international level.

I would rather have Merkel at the helm, referendums abandoned and German introduced as a mandatory second language here than see the fumbling, terrorist-backing cretins that SF are in power.

Sticking it to the government happens everywhere in the middle of election cycles. There's a reason governments don't tend to win by elections. Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Obama all lost the mid-terms too.

As for SF, I don't understand the doomsday scenarios foreseen by some. They are a political party and as such exist to gain, exercise and retain power. They'll act like everyone else once they get in. They are already doing this in the north.

swimming in a sea · 27-02-2012 1:37pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

if SF were to enter government tomorrow the party would be obliterated at a subsequent election.

i would not be so sure, once SF got in I'd worry how free and fair future elections would be

raymon · 27-02-2012 4:27pm

Foghladh wrote: »

I'd agree that the FF Ard Fheis could be an important one for them. They'd really need to show something new in order to gain back some of that swing

What do you mean "show something new" ??

What could they possibly "show" to gain back some of the "swing" vote ? I am sincerely interested.

I watched Callearly's press conference today and I still don't know what he was mumbling on about. What a shockingly poor representative .

I can't see what the FFers could do or say to make up for the suffering they have caused.

GSF · 27-02-2012 4:35pm

raymon wrote: »

What could they possibly "show" to gain back some of the "swing" vote ? I am sincerely interested.

1 Accept blame for what happened
2 Really mean it - no ifs or buts
3 Remove all those responsible for past failures
4 Set out a new vision for what they would do differently in the future

It will never happen of course.

Fenian Army · 27-02-2012 4:38pm

swimming in a sea wrote: »

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

if SF were to enter government tomorrow the party would be obliterated at a subsequent election.

i would not be so sure, once SF got in I'd worry how free and fair future elections would be

Where do people like you get crap like that from? I hope you don't really think crap like that, if you do you have serious problems

Tzar Chasm · 27-02-2012 5:24pm

FF don't need to do something new, they need to go back to the old ways, the local party mentality where the Cummans have a real say in policy, some people may find this odd but that is how FF work best, local issues on a national stage, we ar a nation obsessed with parish pump politics, it was when they tried to remodel the party under Bertie that it lost its way.

Sierra Oscar · 27-02-2012 6:20pm

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

FF don't need to do something new, they need to go back to the old ways, the local party mentality where the Cummans have a real say in policy, some people may find this odd but that is how FF work best, local issues on a national stage, we ar a nation obsessed with parish pump politics, it was when they tried to remodel the party under Bertie that it lost its way.

The introduction of 'One Menber One Vote' will go a long way in allowing the empowerment of the ordinary members. It really will be a game changer for the party, hopefully the organisational reforms will be passed at the Ard Fheis.

Godge · 27-02-2012 7:07pm

raymon wrote: »

In the latest poll it looks like Michael Martins personal rating has dropped sharply, while FF remains to lose support due to it's widespread unpopularity

Their brand of whinge politics does not seem to be working.

The bad news is that Sinn Fein is making huge gains

http://rte.ie/news/2012/0225/politics.html

Hopefully this spells the start of end of FF

That poll is by behaviour and attitudes who do not have the track record of Red C or MRBI. Have a look at this blog post which analyses the performance of a previous B&A poll.

http://irishpollingreport.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/bad-behaviour-poor-attitude/

raymon · 27-02-2012 7:23pm

Godge wrote: »

That poll is by behaviour and attitudes who do not have the track record of Red C or MRBI. Have a look at this blog post which analyses the performance of a previous B&A poll.

http://irishpollingreport.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/bad-behaviour-poor-attitude/

Did you read the comments that discredit this bloggers analysis as exaggerated.

In any case whichever poll you read FF is doing terribly . Michael Martin has proven to be a terribly weak leader. He was weak in cabinet and is weak in opposition.

FF deserve his leadership .

Godge · 27-02-2012 7:33pm

raymon wrote: »

Did you read the comments that discredit this bloggers analysis as exaggerated.

In any case whichever poll you read FF is doing terribly . Michael Martin has proven to be a terribly weak leader. He was weak in cabinet and is weak in opposition.

FF deserve his leadership .

I am not a supporter of FF and hope they do badly but I wouldn't rely on this poll.

Could this spell the start of the end for FF

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