Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

brooke 2 · 25-03-2014 7:50pm

fr3d12 wrote: »

I know he ultimately made the decision himself but Shatter had been slowly pulling away from him for weeks.

That is true. I heard a friend of his speak to Matt Cooper this evening and he
expressed a lot of anger towards Shatter for abandoning Callinan over recent weeks!

The man was deluded!! He painted Callinan as the victim and used the phrase
'Hindsight is always 100%' over and over again!!

ThisRegard · 25-03-2014 8:05pm

tayto lover wrote: »

This taping of phone calls was used to convict garda in Waterford over an assault. Who authorised that and was it used to spy on the garda officers or persons arrested?

From what i can remember it was used to obtain evidence from a recording of a conversation between a detainee and solicitor but all their public lines were recorded.

expectationlost · 25-03-2014 8:20pm

tayto lover wrote: »

This taping of phone calls was used to convict garda in Waterford over an assault. Who authorised that and was it used to spy on the garda officers or persons arrested?

no it wasn't it was ruled inadmissable http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/docs/publications/Report_103_Waterford_Holness.pdf

Sand · 25-03-2014 8:21pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I met a few recently and they told me that the morale in the job is at a very low ebb. Having their shift conditions changed along with the pay cuts have made many of them think of packing it all in. Some of them don't see their kids for days because of the shift changes and struggle to pay bills.
In my opinion this along with the scandals would make a good worker reluctant to involve himself deeply in his work.
As the saying goes "if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys".
I am of the opinion that the pay and conditions in the garda is not attracting the caliber of officer it used to have.

I'm fairly sure most Guards have never been in the job, where they can be attacked and spat at on a quiet day, for the money. There is in fact a long waiting list for the windows when Garda recruitment opens. I think whilst no-one would reject more money for the same job, poor morale is a reflection of poor leadership - down to quite frankly appalling equipment and shortages of it, plus the corrosive effect of tolerated incompetence.

And while there was always good Gardai (I think especially of unarmed Gardai who went up against armed terrorist gangs throughout the 1980s - some paying with the lives) I wouldn't believe for a second that the calibre of officer was on average higher in the past. Quite the opposite.

Callinan for example joined in the 1970s and was very successful climbing to the top, and his description of whistleblowers as "disgusting" is wholly unsurprising to me. He is a product of his time in the Guards. Even "good" guards of that era fell in line when ordered. Cancelling penalty points? Similar activity where family and friends ask a Guard to "have a word" regarding a fine or ticket has been happening for decades - an open secret in Irish society and tolerated. And I'm personally aware of one case 20 years ago where Gardai conspired (there is no other word for it) to help one of their own escape from the consequences of writing off a car in a crash whilst drunk (I'm not going to provide further details so you can accept or disregard that - I'm aware its anecdotal). The calibre of Guards wasn't indisputably higher in the past.

As I said, I don't think Guards are in it for the money. They do a job far harder than what the majority of the people do day to day. I would still instinctively trust and respect the average Guard. The vast majority of them want to do a good job - the real issue is poor leadership setting a poor example, and abusing members sense of loyalty to each other to cover up for ineffective, incompetent and corrupt Guards. A stronger GSOC, and a better form of leadership not so resistant to criticism would lead to a far higher standard than was present in the past.

renegademaster · 25-03-2014 8:24pm

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Jesus christ this is like watching a car crash. Do they think we are total children? That we won't notice this blatant attempt to deflect attention from shatter? Until relatively recently I was actually quite satisfied with the current government but the longer this goes on the more obvious it becomes that these people hold us in total contempt. I am genuinely angered by this.

fr3d12 wrote: »

It's no coincidence these "new" allegation came to light only hours after Callinan stood down.
The Attorney General was aware last November about the recordings but according to the Taoiseach he was only informed by the AG on Sunday night!

Shady Tady wrote: »

I suppose today just happened to be the day they were due to come out, Putin would have a red face on him announcing this!

fr3d12 wrote: »

It's hard not to be cynical at this stage, you can bet the words "Shatter" "AGS", "Justice system" and "Reform" will be used together a lot in the coming days.

holyhead wrote: »

Unless something of substance emerges looking like Kenny is standing by Shatter. Enda your justice minister INCORRECTLY stated that a whistleblower wouldn't appear before an inquiry. Such a statement reflects poorly on the whistleblower IF true. It was FALSE. Enda he was never asked. Shatter incorrectly and hence wrongly smeared the character of a whistleblower. He, Shatter allowed a Police Commissioner to remain in office after calling the actions of whistleblowers DISGUSTING.
You Enda criticized FF for there lack of morals. Your no better yourself. Shame on you. Fire Shatter and reclaim some of the moral ground or go into a cesspit with him. Damn you Enda your a disgrace Taoiseach or otherwise.

Callinan retires with his fat pension and pay off. Really pees me off this whole gravy train. Shatter, spineless, should have had the balls to fire him. Shatter too will get his fat pension when he buggers off. Hopefully sooner than later. Bob Geldof was right. Banana Republic.

be prepared for a whole lot more corruption between now and april 2016, i keep repeating that at the recent fine gael ard fheis some fruit cake was correlating the lack of protest since the current government took office is a sure sign of majority support for them, and this was only 2 weeks ago while this was all simmering away with not one protest happening over it all, this is dangerous and by still not hitting the streets we're showing we couldn't really give a $hit if this gets sorted at all, even now that the commisioner has jumped ship and will no odubt be well looked after for doing so, the peoples silence only encourages the ba$tards!!

fr3d12 · 25-03-2014 8:35pm

The Govt. brought this to the attention of the public today and before making their statement had agreed to set up a commission of inquiry.
Govt. ministers are queueing up on the news to tell us how serious these allegations are and how determined the Govt are to reform the AGS but this is in stark contrast to the Govt's. attitude to the GSOC bugging, WB's and penalty points.The whole thing looks stage managed including Callinans resignation. I don't doubt the seriousness of the allegations but I would argue that if the penalty points issue had been swept under the carpet we wouldn't have heard a lot about this.
They are blowing smoke up our asses as usual.

renegademaster · 25-03-2014 9:05pm

fr3d12 wrote: »

The Govt. brought this to the attention of the public today and before making their statement had agreed to set up a commission of inquiry.
Govt. ministers are queueing up on the news to tell us how serious these allegations are and how determined the Govt are to reform the AGS but this is in stark contrast to the Govt's. attitude to the GSOC bugging, WB's and penalty points.The whole thing looks stage managed including Callinans resignation. I don't doubt the seriousness of the allegations but I would argue that if the penalty points issue had been swept under the carpet we wouldn't have heard a lot about this.
They are blowing smoke up our asses as usual.

and until we unite a little they'll continue to blow smoke up all our a$$es and sure who can blame them, they're corrupt but we encourage it all by doing nothing to stop it

Sierra Oscar · 25-03-2014 9:52pm

An Taoiseach told us today in the Dáil that the government, including Minister Shatter, only became aware of these allegations over the weekend.

An RTÉ source has said that the Garda Commissioner sent a letter to the Minister for Justice two weeks ago to highlight the issue, and the letter specifically told the General Secretary to bring the matter to the attention of Shatter.

RTÉ have the letter.

Callinan wrote to Department of Justice about recordings

RTÉ News has learned that former garda commissioner Martin Callinan wrote to the Department of Justice more than two weeks ago about the recording and retention of telephone conversations in garda stations.

In a letter to the Secretary General of the department, Mr Callinan asked that Minister for Justice Alan Shatter be informed of details of the recordings.

It has also emerged that the Attorney General was informed last November.

bajer101 · 25-03-2014 9:59pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

An Taoiseach told us today in the Dáil that the government, including Minister Shatter, only became aware of these allegations over the weekend.

An RTÉ source has said that the Garda Commissioner sent a letter to the Minister for Justice two weeks ago to highlight the issue, and the letter specifically told the General Secretary to bring the matter to the attention of Shatter.

RTÉ have the letter.

Callinan wrote to Department of Justice about recordings

It has also emerged that the Attorney General was informed last November.

I wonder who leaked that letter? Looks like a parting shot from Callinan at Shatter to say thanks for sticking by him. I wonder what other documents will be leaked in the near future?

gizmo555 · 25-03-2014 9:59pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

An RTÉ source has said that the Garda Commissioner sent a letter to the Minister for Justice two weeks ago to highlight the issue, and the letter specifically told the General Secretary to bring the matter to the attention of Shatter.

RTÉ have the letter.

I think the way this personal and sensitive data is inappropriately appearing in the public domain without regard to due process and fair procedures is disgusting!

Muahahaha · 25-03-2014 10:08pm

"If Alan Shatter thinks you're out to get him, you're finished"

aloyisious · 25-03-2014 10:21pm

I hear a voice shouting from St Fintan's in Sutton, "GUBU". As for Alan, he couldn't have known about "the letter", sue wasn't he away abroad for Paddy's Day :-)

sparkling sea · 25-03-2014 10:25pm

The Minister for Justice and the Garda Commissioner must live with in the laws of the land just like the rest of us.

The Morris tribunal highlighted all types of problems within the Gardai, with a serving Garda stating “You don’t hang your own”.

Justice Morris also suggested “Of the Gardaí serving in Donegal it cannot be said that they are unrepresentative or an aberration from the generality. All of them were trained as Gardaí and served under a uniform structure of administration and discipline that is standardised.”

Politicians ignored this and I wonder in 7 years will the same discussion begin again.

renegademaster · 25-03-2014 10:47pm

sparkling sea wrote: »

The Minister for Justice and the Garda Commissioner must live with in the laws of the land just like the rest of us.

ahahahahahahaha!! get up the road

aloyisious · 25-03-2014 10:50pm

I hope the chair of the Dail has a spare gavel or two, plus some throats lozenges, ready for Thursday when Alan explains matters to his fellow TD's. This'll do the papers no end of good.

bajer101 · 25-03-2014 10:51pm

Katie Hannon on Prime Time has said that the official Govt line is that even though Callinan sent a letter to Shatter two weeks ago telling him about the phone recordings, it was only brought to Shatter's attention this morning - despite the fact that the letter stated that it was to be brought to the Minister's attention immediately! I'm not surprised that Shatter is playing dumb here, but he must really think that people are fcukin idiots if he thinks we'll believe that.

aloyisious · 25-03-2014 10:54pm

Roll's around laughing, Michael Noonan replying to Prime Time as to why the DOJ didn't tell Alan about the Comm's letter "maybe they didn't think it was important enough". Aargh, Mick uses my lines.. the minister was abroad (he was in Mexico)....

Brian O'Farrell, where are you???? Well Mick did an excellent job stonewalling, not a flicker or a hair out of place, though he did cough when he heard Leo's name being mentioned.

Busted Flat. · 25-03-2014 10:59pm

bajer101 wrote: »

Katie Hannon on Prime Time has said that the official Govt line is that even though Callinan sent a letter to Shatter two weeks ago telling him about the phone recordings, it was only brought to Shatter's attention this morning - despite the fact that the letter stated that it was to be brought to the Minister's attention immediately! I'm not surprised that Shatter is playing dumb here, but he must really think that people are fcukin idiots if he thinks we'll believe that.

A hand grenade thrown in, how many more to follow.

Busted Flat. · 25-03-2014 11:01pm

Noonan you are talking Bullocks, and not the first time either.

fr3d12 · 25-03-2014 11:04pm

He wouldn't do primetime if there was opposition on as well.
I doubt Vinnie will have tempted any Govt TD's to join him either.

My name is URL · 25-03-2014 11:04pm

Noonan was great on Prime Time imo. Best bit of comedy that RTE have produced in years.

bajer101 · 25-03-2014 11:09pm

This is all typical political spin. The difference this time is that this was all put in place at the last minute and they are spinning on the fly, without the benefit of PR consultants and speech writers briefing them on all possible scenarios. The result is that they are tripping themselves up and coming out with bullsh1t, that the spindoctors would normally advise them against, because the public wouldn't buy it. This is a real eye-opener into how politicians spin and lie and I hope the public remembers it.

Shady Tady · 25-03-2014 11:10pm

aloyisious wrote: »

Roll's around laughing, Michael Noonan replying to Prime Time as to why the DOJ didn't tell Alan about the Comm's letter "maybe they didn't think it was important enough". Aargh, Mick uses my lines.. the minister was abroad (he was in Mexico)....

Brian O'Farrell, where are you????

the DOJ couldn't scan the document and email it to him in Mexico, who's running this country when they are all away on Paddys day duty

tayto lover · 25-03-2014 11:16pm

The Taoiseach, if he had any balls, would be all over the News on a damage limitation exercise. He is the leader of the Government, a poor leader though.

fr3d12 · 25-03-2014 11:18pm

John Redmond of the AGSI wouldn't be on Primetime had Callinan not resigned.

tayto lover · 25-03-2014 11:19pm

fr3d12 wrote: »

John Redmond of the AGSI wouldn't be on Primetime had Callinan not resigned.

Why?

25-03-2014 11:21pm

to be fair both the GRA and AGSI have called for an independant Garda Authority to take over promotions in An Garda Siochana, to take away the political appointments that currently goes on.

fr3d12 · 25-03-2014 11:21pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Why?

They didn't have a lot to say while he was Commissioner did they.

ThisRegard · 25-03-2014 11:22pm

Not a good week for commissioners, the data one tripping up over himself there and he's been pretty poor on every item I've heard today.

BaronVon · 25-03-2014 11:27pm

fr3d12 wrote: »

They didn't have a lot to say while he was Commissioner did they.

They were going to pass a motion of no confidence at one of their conferences, but withdrew at last minute. I can only assume they were bullied and/or threatened by the Commissioner into withdrawing it.

I presume they learned their lesson not to do such disgusting insubordinate acts!

Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

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