Can you soundproof a ceiling from impact noises from apartment above?

bert n ernie · 08-01-2012 11:03pm #1

Hi all, living in a third floor apartment with two apartments below and one above. The structure of the apartment block is a steel frame with prefabricated wood/chipboard type structure ceilings walls and floors slotted into it.Deffo no concrete in the structure.The units are identical and all the rooms in the same place in each.
We have had serious noise issues from the apartment above for years, and its a combination of in my opinion bad/no soundproofing and the owner above having wooden floors.
We have made complaints to the owner,managing agent etc etc and gotten nowhere.the builder is in liquidation for the last few years so we couldnt follow up and demand soundproofing checks etc. Thw owner above is not someone who can be reasoned with, and despite us trying to let her know how much noise she is making, she basically is denying that she makes any noise and thinks we're overreacting. of course she has no neighbours over her so couldnt care less. The Managing Agent have told us that if we want to go down the route of making her put down more suitable flooring"as stated in the house rules we would have to bring her to court.
I've looked up old threads here and some have mentioned soundproofing walls, i was wondering if anyone had soundproofed ceilings ?
We basically live with contstant noise, to add to this she appears to be ocd or something as spends hours (and i really mean over an hour, hoovering a 6mx3m room) hoovering every second day, dragging the furniture across the ceiling, i can only presume to clean behind it etc. She doents seem to sleep much walking around the house at all hours etc and i dont think ive slept a full night for the last three years.
So after my rant (most likely from lack of sleep :rolleyes:, has anyone ever soundproofed this kind of ceiling successfully?

athtrasna · 08-01-2012 11:30pm

Do you own the apartment or are you tenants? The management agent is charged with the day to day running of the development including development rules. They are being negligent in not pursuing the unit in question for breach of contract by installing wooden floors. As a tenant your only recourse would be through your landlord, if you are an owner you are a member of the management company and can put pressure on your agent and the directors of the MC to address this.

bert n ernie · 08-01-2012 11:50pm

hi athtrasna, we own the property. my husband bought it 6years ago, i moved in 4 years ago. the management company is still in the names of the developer, who is in liquidation and not resident in the country. the only access we have to him is through the managing agent. also the estate is about €80k in the red due to unpaid fees, and the agent uses this as an excuse to do the day to day stuff but nothing more.

athtrasna · 08-01-2012 11:59pm

Sounds like you need an EGM to get rid of the developer as a director. Will give the owners much more power to fix things and start to deal with the problems.

bert n ernie · 09-01-2012 12:25am

yep we had an agm recently and they are in the process of trying to get the management company signed over but it will be months before they will be able to do anything. thats really why im looking to do something myself.

odds_on · 09-01-2012 2:51am

Have you read either of these:

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/MUDsEXPMEMOACT.pdf/Files/MUDsEXPMEMOACT.pdf
or
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2011/en.act.2011.0002.PDF

and A & L Goodbody have a summary here:
http://www.algoodbody.com/en_nl/legal-news-2011.aspx?article=20ff487c-60be-4de7-9840-df31525c33dd

And I found this today as I was looking for radiant heating panels, but this company has Marmol panels (basically for heat insulation but if you can tact them they can tell you if they would be any good at sound-proofing:
http://www.flexel.ie/marmox/marmox_faq.html

ongarboy · 09-01-2012 7:34pm

Hi, my partner's mother suffered a similar situation. She lives in a ground floor apartment with a neighbour overhead. She owns her apartment and the one above is rented. It was only when a particular tenant moved in that she experienced significant noise. She would hear occasional noise from previous tenants that would sometimes by annoying but was content to tolerate in moderation. However a new tenant moved in who was unreal, loud footsteps, putting the washing machine on at all hours, constantly seeming to drag furniture etc. As you would expect, polite requests asking tenant to change their habits were rebuked.

She eventually got a builder to input ceiling insulation which meant the ceiling height dropped by a few inches. It cost 1000s but I'm sorry to say it made no real improvement (there was just a small element of muffling). Her last resort was to build an extension out the back (which was a planning permission nightmare also) and locate her bedroom into the new extension. It means peaceful nights after a stressful couple of years. This probably is not what you want to hear but her experience of ceiling insulation was not satisfactory and was very costly. I'd be wary about forking out unless you got a proven endorsement from a customer that it made a difference. (my inlaw's experience may be down to shoddy workmanship)

bert n ernie · 09-01-2012 8:04pm

thanks for all the replies guys. ongarboy, i did wonder if there was any point, as per your story! we're really in a bind as we wouldnt even get enough to cover the mortgage if we rented it out, and would end up paying high enough rent, id never live in apartment again, and would rather a tiny cottage in the middle of nowhere than the noise. it seems that i have much intensive research to do !! thanks again

fonzy157 · 10-01-2012 5:58pm

Have the same issue with constant noise from upstairs apartment- it drives me mad!I dont think people realise how frustrating it can be living with the constant noise.I have tried talking to the neighbours but like you, it didn't make much difference.

Last year, i looked around to see if there was any building solutions I could use with helping reduce the noise and found very few builders willing to deal with soundproofing issues in apartments.

The option that seemed the best was using phonewell insulation. I got talking with a builder who installs it, who claims it works well, although you do lose ceiling height etc. I've no idea how good it is but am willing to try anything! Financial circumstances have stopped me getting it done just yet-although i am planing to try it in one room once i get the cash.

Please Let me know if you find any other solutions as I would love to think that there is something out there that can help.

Thanks

Cuddlesworth · 10-01-2012 6:21pm

Due to the type of noise that comes from flooring, I'm afraid that the only real way to soundproof against it is in the apartment creating the noise. You can try soundproof the ceiling, but the impacts will still be heard and still transmit through the walls.

athtrasna · 10-01-2012 8:32pm

Or you can force the MC to take legal action against the owner upstairs and not have to do any alteration to your property.

Victor · 11-01-2012 7:08am

You could of course make your own noise complaint via the council or the district court.

TwoShedsJackson · 11-01-2012 8:56am

bert n ernie wrote: »

thanks for all the replies guys. ongarboy, i did wonder if there was any point, as per your story! we're really in a bind as we wouldnt even get enough to cover the mortgage if we rented it out, and would end up paying high enough rent, id never live in apartment again, and would rather a tiny cottage in the middle of nowhere than the noise. it seems that i have much intensive research to do !! thanks again

Sound proofing won't work against impact noises like the ones you describe and the likes of doors slamming etc. as these are transmitted through the walls/floor by vibration, sound proofing will only have an effect (which can be very variable) on air borne noise like voices, televisions etc.

P. Breathnach · 11-01-2012 1:54pm

Victor wrote: »

You could of course make your own noise complaint via the council or the district court.

I think that in the majority of cases that would be a waste of time and money. The sort of problem that people generally come here to discuss is with modern apartment developments, and it's usually the result of the construction methods rather than the behaviour of neighbours.

Suppose I lived in an apartment above yours; suppose also that I am a fairly quiet and considerate person (I like to think I am); suppose also that the sounds of my ordinary activities like using the bathroom or listening to the radio were a problem for you. What would you expect of me?

bert n ernie · 11-01-2012 9:22pm

thanks for the replies all. P.Breathneach, I did acknowledge in my first posting that the noise was most likely a combination of the building structure etc as well as noise from the occupant. to be honest if you were my neighbour i would expect you to have put down proper higher spec underlay under your wooden floors

noise from the bathroom pump washing machines etc and general walking around dont bother me, its the hoovering for hours, the constant stamping around in high heels at all hours of the night etc.

I should probably also mention that before i moved in to this apartment i had an identical apartment in the other end of the estate, and because the owner above me had put the proper insulation down i only heard the normal amount of noise, which i would expect to hear in a block of apartments. Of course the noise didnt become evident until she changed the floors and we had already sold mine by then.

It was just the thought that maybe I could do something from my end to fix it.

P. Breathnach · 11-01-2012 9:31pm

bert n ernie wrote: »

... P.Breathneach, I did acknowledge in my first posting that the noise was most likely a combination of the building structure etc as well as noise from the occupant.

My comments were intended in a general way, and I did not mean to pass judgement on your situation. I don't know your building, and I don't know the rules.

to be honest if you were my neighbour i would expect you to have put down proper higher spec underlay under your wooden floors ...

Which you would be entitled to expect if it is provided for in the rules for the development. And it should not devolve to you to enforce the rules: that's the territory of the management company and its appointed managing agent.

bert n ernie · 11-01-2012 9:54pm

Hi P.B, didn't take it as a judgement all comments gratefully appreciated ! Unfortunately I think im not alone in the kind of noise being experienced.It does seem to be one of the many curses of the building boom. We're looking for a copy of our leasehold agreement at the moment, there was a condition in there somewhere about flooring,and if thats there, we'll just have to wait for the management company handover process to be completed before we can try and go further with it.
I dont think we'll get anywhere however. Its been on the market for a long time now, seeing as we'll most likely have to have kids here, negative equity etc etc, was hoping somewould have some magic solution

cbond · 29-01-2012 8:50pm

We can hear nearly everything from the apartment above us and them having wooden floors does not help. The most annoying noises are the water pump and her "walking" around the apartment late at night.

pinkypinky · 30-01-2012 11:22am

I've got similar problems with my upstairs neighbour, who has laminate flooring and rents. My only hope is that when it eventually changes owner I can convince them to lay soundproofing stuff when they pull up the old laminate, possibly offering to go halves on the cost. I'm a director of the mc so I will hear about a change in owner and we have no rule banning wooden floors in the upper floors.

cbond · 01-02-2012 9:23am

pinkypinky wrote: »

I've got similar problems with my upstairs neighbour, who has laminate flooring and rents. My only hope is that when it eventually changes owner I can convince them to lay soundproofing stuff when they pull up the old laminate, possibly offering to go halves on the cost. I'm a director of the mc so I will hear about a change in owner and we have no rule banning wooden floors in the upper floors.

In our lease that all owners signed before moving in it states no wooden floors so thats our case to the management company.

funnybone · 03-03-2012 1:02pm

I really do feel for you. I'm in the exact same position and to be honest I'm going slowly insane. I have seen a few insullation companies that do same they can insulate the ceiling but the general consensious is that it would only be effective against sound not vibration. I would leave and rent my place out if I could be I unless I rented to a deaf person there is no on out there that would be willing to pay to listen to someone else all day long.

Marcusm · 03-03-2012 1:32pm

funnybone wrote: »

I really do feel for you. I'm in the exact same position and to be honest I'm going slowly insane. I have seen a few insullation companies that do same they can insulate the ceiling but the general consensious is that it would only be effective against sound not vibration. I would leave and rent my place out if I could be I unless I rented to a deaf person there is no on out there that would be willing to pay to listen to someone else all day long.

Does your lease include a freeholder covenant to permit you to require it to enforce the obligations in other leases? If it does, have a solicitor draw up the appropriate enforcement notices to serve on the ther apartment owner. Being in breach of a lease covenant is more serious than being in breach of "house rules". The ultimate sanction for breach is forfeiture of the lease; the letter should set this out and it should be copied to the bank/finance company holding the mortgage. Forfeiture of the lease is highly unlikely ever to happen in these circumstances but setting out the position will likely encourage some action.

funnybone · 04-03-2012 12:47pm

Thanks Marcusm. I'll have to check the lease but that does seem like a good way to go. I've seen solicitors though and most just aren't interested in the case and the one that was said that if it were to go to court it could cost up to 15k. I don't think there is a way to bring cases to court here without incurring huge fees. But I guess if I'm going to send a fortune soundproofing it will work out all the same.

T Corolla · 04-03-2012 1:07pm

Hi op I went through the same suitation in the summer of last year and I was advised to record the incidence of when the noise was occuring. I live in a semi d and had serious problem with dogs barking all over the weekend and it began to affect everyone in the house. I used a mobile phone in certain cases and produced the evidence for the offending party and advised them I would take legal action. The noise came to a stop.

oscas · 30-07-2013 8:07pm

As was mentioned in an earlier post - the mgmt company are there to enforce the house rules - which usually include something about flooring. If an apt does not have the correct flooring then the MC should issue a letter to inform the apt and pursue them until the they adhere to the rules. If that includes taking the apt to court then so be it - the court cost is incurred by the MC, i.e. each apt owner, and will be charged as part of the annual service charges.

We (the apt owners) took over the running of our complex about 3 years ago and now the directors (us) oversee everything! Service charges came down, the place looks great! And yes, it comes down to a few people to put the time in to make the changes but it's worth it.

Also, I started switching my water pump off at night and that really helps!

Can you soundproof a ceiling from impact noises from apartment above?

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