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Meeting Eircom CEO with EI

  • 03-05-2002 2:24pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭


    Well Im taking part in a discussion Forum chaired by Enterprise Ireland, and Mr Philip Nolan CEO of Eircom is the guest speaker etc.

    Basic Issues being discussed are
    Lead time/price Leased Line and ISDN
    SLA
    Reliabilty and Resilience
    Tech Support
    DSL availability "always on" affordable internet link (their words not mine :) )
    Clear information on information on New Techs and when/where they will be available etc
    Other issues

    Now Im not asking to represent IO or anything but i feel that it could be a bit of an opportunity to ask questions but Im planning asking relevant semi-informed questions and not look like an oaf :D
    One i can see missing straight up from the above list is flat rate, but has anyone else they would like to add etc. feel free

    Cheers
    -Toppy-


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭m1ke


    usage capping, (3gb on their entry level dsl service)


  • Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭neverhappen


    Philip, your new "affordable internet link" is the most expensive DSL implementation in the world. Discuss.


  • Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭-Toppy-


    And he will go prove it, as well as the fact that they have to deal with areas that are not as profitable as dublin e.g. when dsl finally rolls in connemara in 2007. IMHO you got to remember that its not one price if you are living in dublin and another if you are in Connemara. (I can just picture this as part of his defence)

    The cap I can deal with alright, but 3gb is ridiculous a fair cap would be ok say 10gb or 15gb per month for a home user.

    Cheers
    -Toppy-


  • Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭neverhappen


    DSL is being rolled out on a "phased" basis. Nowhere does it say they're going to bring it out everywhere. Eircom can pick and choose the exchanges to enable.

    The technology limits them to 2km from each exchange as it is.

    IMO, they can, and will, concentrate on the most densely-populated urban areas for as long as they like.

    And its *never* going to be available in Connemara....b


  • Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭-Toppy-


    Ok thats the kind of ammo I can use :D
    Cheers
    -Toppy-


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22 Batfink


    I think I read somewhere that it limits it to just over 3 miles from each exchange ? I'm sure you can find the correct answer somewhere on the web .

    "The technology limits them to 2km from each exchange as it is. "


  • Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭neverhappen


    I think you're right about the distance - I was just spouting off the top...

    I'm sure a lot of useful facts will be on the irelandoffline web site...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭aidan_dunne


    FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE! FLAT RATE!

    Please, for God's sake, raise the issue of flat-rate with him and tell him that we want, no DEMAND, a flat-rate/FRIACO product now.

    I know it's not on the agenda but we need to mention this to him clearly and consisely. And as soon as he comes back with the usual "not-commercially viable" argument, turn around and f**ing lamp him for me because I'm fed up listening to that excuse and all the other ones for not introducing flat-rate/FRIACO.

    Thank you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Arboration


    And if he replies to the request of an affordable flat-rate 56K question with: 48% of the Irish people have no interest in the Internet.

    You should reply with:

    "What about the other 52% who see the Internet as a great way of making money, but also a great way of losing it.
    Eircom continue to suck the last drops of life from an ISDN service which it claims is a Broadband option- Yet is NOT flat-rate.
    Inform Mr.Nolan of the amount of people students who study at home and could put the Internet to great use.
    Inform Mr.Nolan that thanks to his company, Ireland will within two years no longer be considered a competitive country.
    Inform Mr.Nolan that the 'Pain of a slow Internet connection' could be softened if this pain wasn't so expensive."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Dangger


    Now I realise I'm guilty for not getting reports of my recent activities this week out to you all but I would like to flag something that has been conveyed by Eircom at the National Digital Media Conference (by Pat Galvin - Head of Regulatory Affairs, 1/5/02) and Peter Maxwell (Network Operations, 2/5/02) at the IIA debate on infrastructure. Their belief that the content is lacking to create sufficient demand for broadband, and I am quite sure this will be mentioned at your discussion Toppy.

    This was highlighted by both Eircom speakers at both events, they need returns on the 2 billion the have ploughed into the network (remember they have 2 billion debts since the sale also), but they also feel that there is a distinct lack of a "killer app" to draw consumers in to use the capacity. Now while its easy for us to scoff at such comments it is a valid point to a degree. Although one which can be quite easily undermined................

    Firstly telco companies have never been great at coming up with the killer app, keep in mind that they never realised that SMS (txt messaging) would take off to the degree it has, and years ago many regarded email as "glorified faxes". If we sit around waiting for telcos to think they have it right on this front it may never happen. The smaller guys (thinking of the Webworks proposed by Forfas [ICTS 2007 report] , or the future inhabitants of the Digital Hub area in the Dublin liberties area) are quite likely to create the content and services to come up with the killer app. It should also be noted that Eircom went around in the late 90's frantically buying up content providers such as Rondomondo and a whole host of digital content providers but never successfully integrated them into their business model. They also experimented with the provision of digital television in tandem with DSL service in the early trials of DSL, they are determined (perhaps validly) on controlling the content to drive demand for the services.

    Other valid drivers for demand should be noted. Microsoft has almost half of its UK consultants working form home (Sunday Times March Magazine supplement Top 100 UK companies to work for). We simply don't have the ability to truly telework here at this moment in time, although ADSL will be a start, it is market to tap.

    In health care, Brendan Tuohy Secretary General of the Department of Public Enterprise in his opening speech at the National Digital Media Conference (www.ndmc.info) spoke of trials in Cork of digital transferral of X-rays and cameras in dentist chairs realting images to specialists, these trials are currently going. Another potential to "consume" this unused Eircom bandwidth.

    Now I've left the entertainment industry until last, but seeing as the Digital Hub information pack I received has such a focus on game development playing an important role in the Hub it should not be overlooked. Many Irish companies such as Havok(www.havok.com) have made serious inroads in the entertainment industry. The current generation consoles we are seeing available on the market, Playstation 2, Nintendo Game Cube and the X-Box, are all broadband compliant. Gamers will use the capacity.

    The users and demand is their and waiting, and it will grow over time obviously. Surely now is the time before any sort of recovery allows competition to steal the rug from under Eircom?

    David Long


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  • Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭-Toppy-


    aidan_dunne, of course I was going to bring up flat rate (me being one of the SNL 2000 ppl who got the infamouse letter) :)

    And if he does turn around and say thats its not commericially viable, I'm definately going to try and get in the fact that its stifling irish business etc. as well as slowing down the growth industry

    Dangger considering that my youngest brother is an avid CS player i would probably be lamped if I didnt bring up the fact that multiplayer gaming is probably one of the uses of internet technology, but also the fact of teleworking etc. I regularily have to work late due to the fact I need higher bandwidth etc to do graphics design, or even just research on the net etc.

    I do hope that he will pay some attention, but more to the point I hope EI will take on board what we are saying, they would be quite a powerful ally if they could forsee a way to improve investment & growth in this country of ours

    Cheers everyone
    -Toppy-


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Dangger


    Let me add that in a recent meeting with Colm Regan Executive Director of Forfás we were told we were pushing on an open door with regards to flat rate. Forfas IDA and EI are interconnected. This is concreted by the comments in their recent Broadband Investment in Ireland report - Review of Progress and Key Policy requirements Update 2002. In the forewood it states -
    to enable competitive flat-rate Internet access, empower the regulator to introduce a flat-rate interconnection package. Significant profits from timed Internet access are acting as a deterrent to operators providing always on-broadband access to businesses. The regulator should have the power to mandate eircom to introduce a fixed-rate narrowband interconnect product which would allow competing operators to offer always-on services at cost orientated proces for basic and ISDN services. In 2001, the regulator in th eUK mandated the introduction of a fixed rate programme, which enables a range of service providers to offer always-on Internet access for GBP15 per month (€25)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭Xian


    Originally posted by Dangger
    there is a distinct lack of a "killer app" to draw consumers in to use the capacity.
    I was at the same meeting and have been pondering about just this point.
    The conference was about the future telecommunications infrastructure. The talk was about big pipes and big bandwidth.
    Personally, I am getting sick of the equation of future infrastructure and speed, with the impetus for a fast network coming from bandwidth-hungry apps. If this is where the telcos seeing the future of connectivity lying they are going to miss the point. Because the point is the connectivity, not the speed. People don't need dual carriageways leading to their front door, and they never will.
    Take voice telephony. There are plenty of equations between web services and telephone services. Phone sex, directory enquiries, call centres. Mostly, though, people use telephones to communicate. No bells or whistles there, no bells or whistles needed.
    The "killer app" of the internet, as I have pointed out before, is e-mail. That's going to remain for a few years yet.
    If you get away from the equation of pipes and speed, you can imagine every household, for instance, having €100 thin client email and browser consoles in their house like the majority have telephones now. People needing more computing power and more bandwidth paying accordingly, right up to the needs of big business. A future-proof network of the next 10-20 years will be a flexible network, where you can pay a pittance per month for basic connectivity and a multiple of that for additional bandwidth. No "killer app" is going to make hoards of people go out and buy the equivalent of a Lotus Elise. Me, I'd love one. But if I'm just going to work, I'll take the bike, even if I had an Elise. And I will in twenty years time. (if I'm still capable, that is)

    Getting to the immediate point of "we've spent all this money, why aren't people paying for it?"
    People don't want it (ignoring the fact that it is vastly over-priced compared to equivalent services abroad) because they don't see the need for it, in the same way that people didn't see the need for phones, television, mobile phones, video recorders, you name it, when they came out and were, in their time, vastly over-priced for the service they provided and for the reason that, as people got along quite fine, thank you very much, without them in their day-to-day lives, they weren't going to shell out that kind of money for such a luxury. One of you (aged 30+) tell me you never said "I'll never get a mobile phone - they're for yuppies". What made you finally get one? They became affordable. What "killer app" made you bite the bullet? Talking to your mates.
    Connectivity, ladies and gents. All we want is an inexpensive way to communicate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23 J@ck Chri5tie


    Hi,

    Please ask Mr Nolan what he is going to do to redress the damage he has done to Irish industry, thru' the provision of crap (as mentioned above) telco products, and does he feel ashamed?

    Jc


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    Personally, I think this whole "killer app" thing is poo, another excuse thought up by the slackers and profit-hungry, and another example of the head-in-the-clouds idiocy of management. They want it all done for them. As Xian said, one killer app is already there, and I'd like to point out another "killer app" - the web. Two-thirds of the Irish population aren't using either yet, because of Eircom's own inability to promote demand, even though competitive markets have demonstrated that another third would quite happily use these "killer apps" if the products and services were available. That's double the market boys, do you understand multiplication? And content? I don't want ISP content, because it's rubbish. It's always /been/ rubbish.

    adam


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭leoc


    I'm going to post a serious reply in a bit, when I get it finished. Here I'll just predict that home broadband's killer app is just around the corner. The phrase 'killer app' is unusually appropriate, for its name is DOOM III . Unless iD Software changed their minds somewhere along the way, D3 will require >56Kbit bandwidth. The consequences of this will be interesting to observe.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Originally posted by dahamsta
    Personally, I think this whole "killer app" thing is poo, another excuse thought up by the slackers and profit-hungry, and another example of the head-in-the-clouds idiocy of management. They want it all done for them. As Xian said, one killer app is already there, and I'd like to point out another "killer app" - the web. Two-thirds of the Irish population aren't using either yet,
    Although email was one of the key reasons people got on to the Internet, it's not a great example to use in favour flat-rate. I was talking to someone in the ISP business recently and he said that analysing the logs, he found that most people were dialling in just to download email and then logging off. It seems to me that this is a huge waste of the Internet. A better killer app is the web, as adam points out, since to get full benefit out of it, you need to stop looking at the clock and worrying about the phone bill.

    Now, the problem is that most people aren't aware that flat-rate Internet is totally feasible. They take the phone bill for granted as component of Interenet cost.

    When they see the ads on British TV for, say, Surftime they assume that there are phone bills involved. They aren't aware that the EUR 8.50 subscription includes all telephone charges.

    What is needed is to get the products out there, have them advertised and then people will buy them as they have done in Britain, where close to 50% and rising are using such packages. The initial purchasers will form the core group, and this will spread through word of mouth. These then will become the purchasers of broadband. No one goes from just downloading email to wanting broadband.

    As far as the "killer app" for broadband is concerned, it is simply the Internet itself without artificial speed restrictions. The appeal of the Internet is that it is not limited to a fixed set of applications. No one predicted napster for example, and there will be others in the future. The example of Doom III was given earlier. This is not to be scoffed at. Ireland is one of the largest purchasers of video game consoles outside of Japan and as Adam points out, these are all being equiped with ethernet ports. There's also Internet radio, where with a broadband connection, you can listen to music at a higher fidelity than FM.

    What I'm saying is that there's no one killer app for broadband and that is the nature of the Internet. Everyone takes away a unique experience of the Internet.

    I regard '56K' as a historical restriction brought about by short-sighted telcos. ADSL and its longer-range varients are simply the technically correct way to use a telephone line efficiently. Why isn't it being utilised more? Why aren't the economies of scale being realised? Well, as the Forfas report mentioned by Dangger points out, the existance of high profits on metered dial-up and ISDN acts as a disincentive to invest in innovative services. The system as it stands rewards Eircom for being luddites.

    So, one reason to be in favour of promoting ordinary '56k' flat rate is that it promotes both supply and demand for broadband. It is the stepping stone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Dustaz


    Damn Xian, i thought youd never say something I disagreed with again !:)
    Originally posted by Xian

    One of you (aged 30+) tell me you never said "I'll never get a mobile phone - they're for yuppies". What made you finally get one? They became affordable. What "killer app" made you bite the bullet? Talking to your mates.
    Connectivity, ladies and gents. All we want is an inexpensive way to communicate.

    Very off the mark there. While the 30+ year old in question bought the phone to talk to his mates, the Killer App was undoubtably SMS. The boom in Cellular phones was driven by two things. The Subsidised handsets and SMS. These two things allowed phones to become so cheap that the "I'll never get a mobile phone - they're for yuppies" set had no choice but to get them due to the price and availibility.
    Originally posted by Dahamsta

    Personally, I think this whole "killer app" thing is poo, another excuse thought up by the slackers and profit-hungry, and another example of the head-in-the-clouds idiocy of management.

    Ah now Adam, its been proven time and time again that the concept of the Killer App is sound. Word Processing, Spreadsheets, E-mail, VHS versions of Hollywood Movies, SMS are all examples of applications to technology that were not originally intended but drove the platform involved into the living room of Joe Soap.

    I agree with Skeptic 100% that when it comes to the internet it is the internet itself that is the Killer App. the analogy has been drawn to telephones but what has changed about phones since they were invented? The concept is still the same, you talk to someone else. The Internet in its ever evolving nature allows you to communicate in hundreds of ways, both passively and interactivly, it allows you to compete with others, it allows you to work better and study better. Whoever you are there is an application to suit you. Yes, E-mail is a killer app and it involves everyone, but to consider this to be the only killer app for the next 10 years of the internet is shortsighted in the extreme.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    My point, Dusty, is that the ISP's and OLO's have got their head in the clouds. They're sitting around waiting for someone to produce a miracle, when they've got several miracles already in their paws: email, the World-Wide Web, eCommerce, eBusiness, etc. There's only going to be one "miracle" in the next few years, and that's going to be micropayments. P2P won't be a killer app per se because the multimedia conglomerates have too much power. So they seem to look at all of this and think to themselves, "Errah, sure there's probably some fella working on a killer app in the lab right now, we'll wait and see what happens".

    If the telco's and ISP's put half as much thought, time and effort in innovating instead of "defending" themselves, they could make their own killer app, simply by leveraging /what they've already got/. Make the Internet more affordable to access. It's not rocket science when you just open your eyes and look around. Take the example I've already given, Ireland's scandalous user numbers. Two thirds of Irish people couldn't be bothered their butts getting on the Internet. Whereas two thirds of British people think it's worth the money, thank you very much. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that if the ISP's make the Internet more affordable, they can /double/ their users in about a year.

    And another example: the operator of the cheapest DSL service in the UK was complaining this week that the other providers are stemming growth of broadband in the UK because they're charging too much. He reckons that anyone charging more than GBP£25 is hurting the industry. GBP£25! Hello?

    I swear to the gods, if I got the guys Dave was talking to in the past few weeks into a room, I wouldn't have his patience. I'd kick the living crap out of each and everyone of them. They're ignorant, greedy, ugly people. They deserve a good kicking.

    adam


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Originally posted by dahamsta
    I swear to the gods, if I got the guys Dave was talking to in the past few weeks into a room, I wouldn't have his patience. I'd kick the living crap out of each and everyone of them. They're ignorant, greedy, ugly people. They deserve a good kicking.

    Damn, you're being reserved adam :D

    If that were me, I'd probably end up in violation of every charter dealing with human rights in existence :D

    Think gore on the scale of the film "Event Horizon" for what I'd end up doing ;)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Phil Nolans choice of rifle vs. shotgun analogy is looking increasingly unfortunate.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    Oh, I wouldn't use guns on them. Guns Are Bad. I might be forced to set Elana on them though, and I reckon that's far worse than guns. At least guns are quick... :)

    Actually, I've always been fond of the public humiliation angle. Lock 'em up in stocks and allow every person with a grievance to give 'em a good funt up the behind.

    heh

    adam


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭Xian


    To finish my point about the "killer app" and bandwidth.
    My original point, Dustaz, I agree was not clearly put. As you pointed out, innovation has had a hand in the past in stimulating demand. The innovation the telcos are calling for to stimulate demand for internet access services they see as coming from outside. It is within their own domain, however, that they should look for the innovation they require. This means innovation in services offered, both in terms of price and bandwidth. Flat-rate is the first step in innovating to stimulate demand. The current ADSL strategy looks set to open a new digital divide between those who can afford to pay for high bandwidth and those who cannot, serving only to damage the profits of the same telcos. Is it not feasible to be innovative in the provision of bandwidth?

    Take your gamer. Unless he wants to inflict a psychotic breakdown on himself, he won't be needing 2MB up and down 24/7. What if he was offered 24/7 always-on with off-peak high up/down speeds? Take someone doing their own web hosting on the cheap. They'd want higher up than download time. For someone who just wants to browse and have 24/7 email notification, a low up/down always-on service would be fine. This is where the telcos should be looking for the innovation to stimulate demand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Dustaz


    Ah for gods sake , a nice promising row there ruined :)

    Yeh, i completly agree xian. Its pretty much exactly the same as the mobile phones example. It needs a combination of innovation from the supplier (subsidised phones/a range of bandwith options) and a killer app to drive demand (sms/The aladins cave that is the internet).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭leoc


    I intended to post a few points which would be of use in nailing down Eircom spokesmen on the issue of unmetered telephony. Unfortunately this screed is by now probably too bloated to be useful for that purpose, but I post in anyway in case it may be of some interest to someone. Most of the information here is regurgitated and rejigged from unmetered.org.uk , especially the Mythbusters section.

    Remember that metered local calls were only introduced to this country c. 1994. There was a fuss when the public found out about it, but Telecom pushed ahead, arguing that they needed local call metering to recover the cost of setting up the capability to meter local calls. I strongly suspect that cost has been recovered by now... Of course, any smart Eircom advocate will then point out that there wasn't much dial-up Internet usage back then. However, BT has been offering (more or less) unmetered Internet access at a profit for the last couple of years, Kingston Communications (Hull's very own telco, telecoms regulation's answer to Monaco) for quite a while longer, and unmetered local calls (of all kinds) have been the norm in all of the USA throughout the past ten years and more. At this stage, there are various red herrings that Eircom can produce:

    * Cross-subsidy: Eircom may claim that local calls in the USA are subsidised by trunk and international calls. It may also claim that under unmetered users who only make brief local calls would subsidise the long dial-up calls of Internet users. These claims are provably false. Firstly, US STD and international calls have been world-beatingly low for many years now. Second, in both the UK and the US, users are not forced to pay for unmetered. In the USA, telephone companies offer a range of packages, only some of which include unmetered local calls. (The ones which do are overwhelmingly more popular than those which don't.) In the UK, the various unmetered packages are all supplements to the regular BT service and must be paid for separately. Miraculous to recount, the UK's long-distance and international calls haven't increased in cost after their recent introduction. There's nothing to stop Eircom taking either of these routes to unmetered, thereby protecting users from cross-subsidy.

    * It doesn't work for us: Eircom is obliged to provide to the ODTR estimates of its own costs. It may well be that these estimates show that Eircom would lose money if it went unmetered. However, these figures aren't externally verified, except by the ODTR, which lacks the technical expertise to judge the credibility of Eircom's numbers (ie. to do its job properly). If Eircom's figures show that it wouldn't be able to afford unmetered, and the experience of the UK and USA show that telcos there can afford it nicely, then there are three possible explanations. One is that local factors make operating a local loop in the R.o.I. hugely more expensive than in other English-speaking developed countries with temperate climates. ("Sure, and doesn't the Pooka be dancing on the telephone cables of a night, yer Lordship!") To be fair, average population density is low here, but I'll bet the same is true of some US telcos' catchment areas. The second possibility is that Eircom's local loop operation rivals Chernobyl's old management for incompetence. Most unlikely - and even if did, there would be no reason why the Irish consumer should have to foot the bill for Eircom's inefficiency. The third possiblity is of course that Eircom's numbers are a bit too high. It's also worth mentioning here that telecoms costs have been going down with improved technology: Cable and Wireless' boss estimated a few years ago that his firm's costs were declining by 20% per annum. So if unmetered was affordable for US telcos operating old analogue exchanges in the '90s, it should certainly be affordable for Eircom today.

    * The network couldn't cope: Eircom could claim that the additional volume of calls generated by unmetered would cause clog the telephone networks, bringing inconvenience to other users. The lurid version of this story involves people being unable to get through to the emergency services. Again, if other companies can manage to handle the increased call volume without congestion, why can't Eircom? (BT was heading for trouble with its modem call infrastructure at one stage, but that was due to bad engineering decisions unrelated to unmetered.)

    * Paying off investments: Conversely, Eircom can talk up the money it has recently invested, either implying or explicitly claiming that it needs its local-call cash-cow to cover the cost. Again, BT and the Baby Bells manage to provide local call service at a profit while still providing the option of unmetered Internet access, so clearly the extra money isn't needed for the voice and dial-up services. In other words, local calls are subsidising Eircom's investments in other areas. This amounts to an admission that Eircom is exploiting its local loop monopoly, since in a competitive market no-one would choose to pay too much for their local calls simply so that Eircom can put money into DSL (let alone its dividend or debt repayments). Esat is managing to make a considerable investment in the Irish DSL market without the benefit of such a revenue stream. (Yes, Esat is bankrolled by BT, but Eircom's financial situation is not our problem. No-one forced Valentia to buy Eircom; no-one is forcing Valentia not to sell it again if it can't raise the capital to develop the business. More on this in my DSL rant.) Even if the dial-up rip-off were necessary to fund DSL, why would the country want to sacrifice universal flat-rate Internet access for a DSL service that is of unremarkable quality, vastly overpriced even without considering the usage cap, and on offer to only a minority of homes?

    * Calls are cheap with Eircom: On past form, though, Eircom tends to avoid directly claiming that it couldn't afford unmetered and instead touts Eircom's overall rates as cheap by international standards. (The ODTR loves this one too.) Similar claims were also central to BT's (and OFTEL's) self-justifications before unmetered arrived in the UK. The first thing that springs to notice is that Eircom's rates are reasonable for national and international calls, where it faces competition, and less impressive for local calls, where it does not. The second interesting thing is that most of the other countries in those comparisons also have, or until recently had, uncompetetive telecoms markets dominated by a government-owned or -coddled behemoth. Being somewhat less of a rip-off than your average European telecoms monopolist is not the proudest of boasts. Third, "lies, damned lies and statistics": any price comparisons from Eircom are likely to be misleading or miss the point entirely. It's great if the total amount Eircom customers spend on local calls, or the average cost of an Eircom local call, is not so much higher than elsewhere - does that account for the fact that Eircom customers make fewer, shorter calls at more inconvenient times because of the higher rates? It's super if calls to the US, or two-minute off-peak local calls, are cheap with Eircom - why does that excuse the cost of a twenty-minute local call at midday? ("I would like to point out, your Honour, that I now beat my wife only on the upper torso, and only on weekdays.") It's not as if there is any reason why offering unmetered local calls would make national and international calls more expensive to Eircom.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    Great post leoc, thanks. Dave, Fergus, this one demands a spot on the IrelandOffline site proper.

    adam


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    ^ dahamsta said exactly what I was going to say.

    More please


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Dangger


    Agreed, excellent post. I will ask leoc if he would be prepared to submit this piece for an article on the site.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭Xian


    Originally posted by Dustaz
    Ah for gods sake , a nice promising row there ruined :)

    There'll be other times, Dustaz. Still, just so as not to disappoint, here's another bean poll for you ;-)
    Broadband reaches more than 500,000
    http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3G0J4LP0D
    May 1 2002
    More than 150,000 customers have signed up for broadband over the past four months, taking the number of high-speed internet access connections above 500,000, Oftel, the telecommunications regulator, will reveal on Thursday.

    but
    Latest UK Internet Survey From Oftel
    http://www.net4nowt.com/comments/1020097410,91322,.shtml
    Monday April 29, 2002
    Oftel has released their latest survey which covers Internet use within the UK and results indicate that:
    Unmetered packages remain most popular – currently used by 43% of Internet households - and consumers continue to prefer PSTN/dial up access.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭leoc


    The encouraging comments for my post are much appreciated - thanks to all.

    In principle, I'm more than happy to have it appear on irelandoffline.org , but it really needs some more fact-checking and referencing before it's ready for the big time, not all of which I'm qualified to do myself. In particular, it would be great if it could get the once-over from someone telecoms-literate, particularly someone who can actually understand the cost documents which Eircom publishes on its website.


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