GAME in serious trouble

Gamesnash.ie: Pat · 02-02-2012 10:41pm

danthefan wrote: »

This might sound stupid but I've never seen how selling used game is massively different from piracy. The retailer can actually profit from the game twice, while the second time the developer gets nothing. I know the original purchaser of the game no longer has a copy, being one difference. Maybe I haven't thought it through very well. On the other hand I've bought plenty of used games so I'm not complaining. And I buy very few games in shops anymore, I either buy from Steam (as about 75% of my games purchases are for the PC) or buy from an online retailer as they tend to be cheaper.

It's one side to the argument and I can see the point you're making. On the other side though it's not much different than trading in a car for a new car - used car sales fuel new games just as trade ins fuel new game sales. (Granted a person playing a used game will get the same experience as a new purchaser but this is being addressed by online passes etc)

Also as alluded to in my ramblings above the pre owned market is helping to keep new game prices lower than they should be. Games being sold at full retail price per the publishers RRP would sell a lot less units than the discounted price being offered to gamers at current levels. As such I'm inclined to believe that the sale of pre owned games benefits publishers in the long run.

Of course my opinion could be skewed as a games retailler but I would balance that argument out too by pointing to my previous statement(s) here on boards that I would be happy to see an end to pre owned sales in exchange for better pricing of new games.

RobbingBandit · 02-02-2012 11:28pm

cloud493 wrote: »

Its not out till tomorrow is it?( FF 13 -2)

It should be in stock as of this afternoon but not on sale until the morning. No one has the bloody Crystal Edition for freesale.

calex71 · 02-02-2012 11:32pm

Gamesnash.ie: Pat wrote: »

It's one side to the argument and I can see the point you're making. On the other side though it's not much different than trading in a car for a new car - used car sales fuel new games just as trade ins fuel new game sales. (Granted a person playing a used game will get the same experience as a new purchaser but this is being addressed by online passes etc)

Also as alluded to in my ramblings above the pre owned market is helping to keep new game prices lower than they should be. Games being sold at full retail price per the publishers RRP would sell a lot less units than the discounted price being offered to gamers at current levels. As such I'm inclined to believe that the sale of pre owned games benefits publishers in the long run.

Of course my opinion could be skewed as a games retailler but I would balance that argument out too by pointing to my previous statement(s) here on boards that I would be happy to see an end to pre owned sales in exchange for better pricing of new games.

I would a prime example of what you describe above, if I was unable to trade I would not be in a position to afford very many new games, I would say for every 10 games I buy now, if I was unable to trade towards them I would only get 5 games. Meaning a loss of revenue for retailer and publisher of 50% of my spend on new games.

The used car comparison is a good one, like you said not the same as you say in that the used game player has the same experience as the original owner but it is the same in my eyes when it comes to not being able to afford a new car if I can't trade in my old one.

In the current economic climate (god I hate that phrase) if used game sales were stopped tomorrow the industry would take a whopping hit. To what extent I don't know, I'd very very interested in seeing some independent research into it like how many trade old for new etc. and the projected ramifications if they could not do that. That may or may not make for some worrying reading to some in the industry.

LighterGuy · 02-02-2012 11:56pm

So they werent paying for new stock?

So what was the deal they had in place. They'd get 10,000 (or whatever) copies and would only have to pay for a portion of them at first?

I always thought a store, what ever store it may be, pays for all stock before reselling?

(i feel dumb

)

Potential-Monke · 03-02-2012 12:06am

wayne040576 wrote: »

You've basically created an online shop that people have to walk into. I'm not sure that would work... You can provide all of that online and more. Without the need for the customer to leave the house.

Not really. The difference is that in my digital display shop, you still get a physical copy after the purchase. And that's what i, and many others, want, a physical copy, something to take home there and then and to not have to wait for download or delivery. I wouldn't have played games like Bioshock, Singularity, Tiger Woods PGA, Fifa, the Lego series, and many others if it wasn't for pre-owned in store sales. I've never taken a chance on a game online (didn't know much about Bioshock before I bought it). I never will, I enjoy impulse buying in shops, I think too much before buying online.

calex71 · 03-02-2012 12:12am

LighterGuy wrote: »

So they werent paying for new stock?
So what was the deal they had in place. They'd get 10,000 (or whatever) copies and would only have to pay for a portion of them at first?

I always thought a store, what ever store it may be, pays for all stock before reselling?

(i feel dumb )

Most shops work that way, if they had to pay up front there would be serious liquidity issues for many shops, like not being able to pay staff until those 10000 games got sold, many shops have a credit line with a cash and carry etc. if they can't get credit then they may aswell shut up shop unless they have cash reserves to cover them

Varik · 03-02-2012 1:30am

calex71 wrote: »

I would a prime example of what you describe above, if I was unable to trade I would not be in a position to afford very many new games, I would say for every 10 games I buy now, if I was unable to trade towards them I would only get 5 games. Meaning a loss of revenue for retailer and publisher of 50% of my spend on new games.

Which means the money they get off you is higher when you have the option to trade games in, but every game traded is a possible lost sale of a new game.

You would be force to buy less games but someone else would be left with the option of either not getting any games or buying some new.

The best trade in offers lately were those 99c trades for new games, not a common trade and very limited to only the newest games (which would be hurt most from the trade ins).

10 new games bought for 99c each after selling 10 games back, you could possibly cost a developer 10 new sales compare to your suggested 5.
Then you get the trade 2 games in for a new one free, and that's possible worse. As with piracy you can't count every used sale as a lost new sale but when shops offer these deals it mean they can sell the game you traded in and they'll keep the price always just a bit below new to max their profit, so when buying used is never that much cheaper than new.

Someone could probably get a few letters after and before their name working on all this.

calex71 · 03-02-2012 1:46am

Varik wrote: »

Which means the money they get off you is higher when you have the option to trade games in, but every game traded is a possible lost sale of a new game.

You would be force to buy less games but someone else would be left with the option of either not getting any games or buying some new.

The best trade in offers lately were those 99c trades for new games, not a common trade and very limited to only the newest games (which would be hurt most from the trade ins).

10 new games bought for 99c each after selling 10 games back, you could possibly cost a developer 10 new sales compare to your suggested 5.
Then you get the trade 2 games in for a new one free, and that's possible worse. As with piracy you can't count every used sale as a lost new sale but when shops offer these deals it mean they can sell the game you traded in and they'll keep the price always just a bit below new to max their profit, so when buying used is never that much keeper than new.

Someone could probably get a few letters after and before their name working on all this.

Yes all true when It comes down to it, I was speaking more from a selfish me me me point of view really, the big picture is just as you outline !!! But I'm not making anyone buy used. The real problem is there comes a point and these days it's very soon after launch, so soon it's scary for publishers I bet that you simply can't buy a new copy of a particular game in bricks and mortar because they order so little new stock to sell and rely on the used stock to prop margins.Hence the 99c deals which on the face of it are great but when you look at what you would get on ebay etc are quite simply are nothing short of rip offs.

Actually if you wanted to get down to micros or macros then they really should not be allowed take pre-orders either as this gives them a feel for launch day demand and gives them a gauge as to how much new stock to order, never thought of it until if said i'd there but that actually is very sneaky of them.

readyletsgo · 03-02-2012 12:36pm

Jesus, I was in GAME in the Ilac around 6pm last night just having a look (always liked that GAME for some reason).
Xbox section is a complete mess as usual but it seemed they are not taking in second hand games anymore as there was just about a million copies of Battlefield 3, about 5 down and about 5 or 6 across, would have got a copy as never played any of them but still around €40, no thanks. They wont sell.

Very few other games on show too. Very small section for new Xbox games tbh, two sections on the wall and they are mixed in with preowned games.

But one thing that shocked me was in the Wii section, where the Nintendo Select games are I saw new copies of LoZ TP, now Ninty released these to be sold for around €20'ish new in all stores, GAME always had it (along with Mario Galaxy and Sports resort etc) €24.99, but now they have a sticker on LoZ TP at €49.99 with a sale sticker on it at €34.99! WFT GAME!?:mad:

These are the 'budget' games from Nintendo, why are they charging 120% extra?

Although I did see copies of Crush3d there, GAME do get some great neich games in, but they seem to charge why over the asking price, Gamestop is not much better tbh.

Rant over

Oafley Jones · 03-02-2012 12:52pm

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

ah this is sad news,I'll be sad if game in cork closes down.

I remember being so excited when it opened.* It was great to have a proper games store, whereas before most of my games were bought in Micromail - when they were in that bungalow on the Bandon Road. Now, if it wasn't for the xbox I'd never darken the door there and even at that I'd say it's been over a year or two since I bought any titles there. They just aren't competitive in terms of price or selection. As for Xtravision, they're pretty much gone from Cork now, although I did see one in Bandon and was genuinely surprised. I can't see them lasting much longer either.

* I miss the days when PC games came in big fecking boxes, with huge manuals and other content. I'd still pay a premium for physical content if it came with extras you once got, e.g. the excellent history book in Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, or Strike Commander's Mercenary Digest - set in 2011 I've just realized.

Sarky · 03-02-2012 1:55pm

I still fondly remember the long sleeved tshirt that came with my copy of Civilization for the Amiga. That was one of the best items of clothing I'd ever owned.

-gilly-09- · 03-02-2012 4:17pm

I have been lookin for ages for Saints row the third, I've been into various GAME's and even Gamestop and HMV and it hasn't been available to buy. So maybe its not only game thats in trouble.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat · 03-02-2012 4:19pm

-gilly-09- wrote: »

I have been lookin for ages for Saints row the third, I've been into various GAME's and even Gamestop and HMV and it hasn't been available to buy. So maybe its not only game thats in trouble.

That's a supply issue from the publisher - we haven't been able to get it since Christmas. Stock expected second week of February apparently.

alastair_doom · 03-02-2012 4:42pm

Not much details, but looks like they're safe in the short term:

Game shares soar on revised banking facilities

Shares in the video game retailer Game Group have jumped 40% after lenders, led by state-backed RBS, revised the firm's banking arrangements.

Game said the new arrangements would allow it "to continue to trade".

Game Group shares plunged by more than a third in November after the retailer cut its revenue forecast.

It is now predicting an underlying pre-tax loss of about £18m for the year to the end of January.

The firm has also agreed to provide an updated strategic plan for review by its lenders, which also include HSBC and Barclays.

All aspects of the business's activities and strategy will be reviewed, including its 664-store overseas operations.

"Management may look to exit parts or all of its international operations to reduce losses and to raise cash," said Singer Capital Markets analyst Mark Photiades.

In September, Game reported a £51.5m pre-tax loss and its share price has fallen over 70% since the start of the year.

Game has seen its business eroded by competition from online-only retailers such as Steam and Amazon, with Game holding on to 19% of the online market.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16868265

Mr. K · 03-02-2012 5:57pm

I hope they survive. More choice and competition is always good and it'd suck for all those who'd be out of work. I have a bit of a soft spot for GAME, I've bought many games and consoles from them over the years!

Grumpypants · 03-02-2012 10:29pm

Agghh my xmas present was a voucher card as a down payment on my Vita, getting nervous !

Doctor DooM · 07-02-2012 2:10pm

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-07-game-confirms-layoffs-at-head-office

Always hate to see people lose jobs.

Grumpypants · 07-02-2012 2:18pm

Wonder does its oversea's interests that are being sold off include Irish stores ?

dmcg90 · 07-02-2012 2:47pm

Grumpypants wrote: »

Wonder does its oversea's interests that are being sold off include Irish stores ?

I'd imagine so. I'll hazard a guess at multiple stores in one city being sold off (one in Cork and a few more in Dublin) and maybe Monaghan. Unless it closes down completely, then that would be a great shame.

evad_lhorg · 07-02-2012 4:48pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

My trip into Game was the most telling though, as I was informed I was about the 15th person to ask for it that day, with a shrug. It was all I could do not to grumble "might be an idea to get some in then, you being a game shop and all".

I want to spend money in bricks and mortar, but they don't want me too. I HAD to go to Amazon and wait for it.

Thats why you preorder games! If you preorder it they will get it in. They arent going to stock obscure games like king of fighters if they dont have a demand for it and the only way they can judge demand is on hom many orders they have.

Retr0gamer · 07-02-2012 5:07pm

Doesn't help sometimes. If they don't have the obscure game on the 'system' they can't preorder it and won't. I'd rather have the choice to buy it the cheapest on the day of release rather than making a blind decision anyway.

cherryghost · 29-02-2012 5:29pm

Bump. GAME announced this morning that they will not be stocking any EA games released in March.

To top that off, GAME shares have fallen over 15% since and still falling. Talk about digging your own grave.

EDIT: Just noticed this was posted on the ME3 thread, not sure why though as it applies to ALL EA Games, not just ME3.

super_furry · 29-02-2012 5:42pm

Yep looks like they're circling the drain. I had both The Last Story and Mass Effect pre-ordered in there and was let down with both so I can't see that I'll be ordering from them again.

They'd be a big loss on the Irish main street, leaving many people just stuck with either Gamestop on Xtra-Vision (who may not be too far behind game).

degrassinoel · 29-02-2012 6:02pm

game dropping out of the market might actually boost sales in Xtravision and Gamestop.

GT_Dublin · 29-02-2012 6:03pm

Quote:

The news was confirmed in a leaked memo sent to staff today by GAME Group northern Europe MD Tom Devine. It was obtained by IGN and transcribed by Edge. Here's the full text:

"Dear all,

Last week we held an event for our partners in the industry and explained the challenges we are facing in the short term - and we asked for their support.

We asked them to trade with us using manageable credit terms, and for them to continue to do that whilst we work through the strategic review and refinancing of our business.

We gave the industry commitments - we committed to integrity and openness in our dealings, and working with everyone equally.

We committed to only stocking products on which we could get the right credit terms, regardless of the title or the supplier. We will not stock products if the terms are not right for our business - we will not sacrifice long-term credit requirements for short-term sales opportunities.

As a result of us taking this position - a position that we believe is critical to our long-term health as a business - we have taken the very difficult decision to not stock EA's March releases, including Mass Effect 3.

As a specialist retailer dedicated to games and gaming, it is never easy to make a decision not to stock a title, particularly one with such a strong fanbase. But it is imperative that we treat every supplier evenly, that we stick to our commitments, and that we don't sign up to payment terms that will hamper us further in the future.

It is even more critical that we manage this appropriately with our loyal customers. We know they will be disappointed regarding Mass Effect in particular and in recognition of this, we will be contacting our Mass Effect pre-order customers and as a gesture of goodwill we will be offering them £5 of reward card / elite points.

I know that many of you will have to manage customer and supplier feedback directly, and I would like to thank you in advance for your support and am happy to answer any questions you have directly - just grab me as I walk around."

Looks like EA might be the bad guy here. I still don't think this was a good decision for Game from a consumer confidence point of view.

kearneybobs · 29-02-2012 6:10pm

degrassinoel wrote: »

game dropping out of the market might actually boost sales in Xtravision and Gamestop.

You say that as if that's a good thing. Yeah, it's a good thing for the competitors but not really for anyone else.
In the end, this means bad things for the employees and it's a serious dent as far as competition goes amongst the retailers. As a gamer who loves a bargain/cheap games I cant really see a boost in sales for the competitors as a positive thing.

degrassinoel · 29-02-2012 6:14pm

well, in fairness i'm with ye there on getting the most out of my cash. But i'd rather see one company go bust, than two.

If this decision does put a nail in their own coffin, so be it. At least the other two companies might have a fighting chance of keeping their employees and us as customers.

super_furry · 29-02-2012 6:17pm

Thing is, this whole thing's a vicious circle. They're in trouble because fewer people are shopping there, but their current problems are only going to put more people off from buying there.

I'm also surprised with how uncompetitive GAME have become over the last six months or so. I was in the Ilac Centre's store on Sunday and the vast majority of their increasingly limited new stock was €5 to €10 more expensive than HMV and Gamestop.

Jester252 · 29-02-2012 6:28pm

I can see this from EA point of view will you be willing to sell something to a person that might not be able to pay you for it in full

Dozen Wicked Words · 29-02-2012 6:37pm

They aren't stocking Mario Party 9 either which, while not in Mass Effect or EA league, its a huge, popular title on the Wii they are missing too.

GAME in serious trouble

Comments