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A5 - Derry Dual Carraigeway

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    but seems to confirm that there will be enough funding released to cover Derry->Strabane and Omagh->Ballygawley

    That seems to be the case.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17026868

    Ballygawley - Aughnacloy is on the very long finger given the recent improvements and no clarity on the N2.
    Strabane - Omagh will get done subsequently.


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 kennykill


    Omagh to Ballygawley is south of Omagh. My reading of the links (plus RTE website) is that the Omagh bypass is NOT included. They get a hospital, stinks of politics!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,226 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan


    Tbh, as someone who drives the route quite often (save for Derry-> Strabane), Strabane -> Omagh the most fustrating stretch. Strbane and Omagh ring roads not great, but not terrible either. Just my 2c.


  • Registered Users Posts: 42 kennykill


    I don't drive in that part of the country at all so I can't comment on road quality or needed section upgrades.

    The news tells me there's alot of political involvement, areas around Derry to Strabane and Omagh to Ballygawley will see investment, and then Omagh will get a hospital which shows investment in Omagh. I would have personally thought from the outside that an Omagh bypass was badly needed but seems the politicans have made the call.

    It's great for the areas as there's jobs generation, road upgrade, and new health facilities. Hard to argue against any of that, it's just gonna take a while yet to by pass Omagh proper!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,797 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    Redsoxfan wrote: »
    Not sure if this is 'news' but seems to confirm that there will be enough funding released to cover Derry->Strabane and Omagh->Ballygawley

    http://www.highlandradio.com/2012/02/14/huge-boost-for-donegal-as-a5-gets-upgrade-funding/

    Every little helps I guess.
    I think this (and the hospital announcement) is down to the fact that they have to burn 400million pounds of her majestys money by the end of this year.

    This was mentioned last november on the BBC
    "How will the Northern Ireland Executive spend £400m?"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15686504

    Its a vague enough article but my intrepretation is that the UK portion of the cash was still there but ringfenced for capital projects.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    It will be a great road to open up the north west and it also saves having to upgrade the A6 as A4 will meet the A4 at Ballygawley thus not only serving Derry Strabane Omagh to Dublin but to Lisburn and Belfast too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭I dont know


    Coming from someone who’ll be commuting Omagh – Belfast every day, this is great news! Can’t wait til they get the diggers in! The Ballygawley – Dungannon dual carriageway has easily taken 10mins off the journey, and is nowhere near as frustrating as it used to be with tractors etc. so lets hope Omagh – Ballygawley is something similar.
    It’s a pitty there wont be an Omagh by-pass as this will be a bottle neck for those travelling further north, but this is better than nothing.

    Good to hear there’s some movement on the hospital too! Maybe soon we can remove the “Welcome to Omagh – 2x Morgues, 4x graveyards, 0x Hospitals – Drive Carefully :)” signs


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    First Minister Peter Robinson and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness chaired a specially convened meeting of the Executive at Stormont yesterday to agree the allocation of £583.7 million (€694 million) for six major projects.

    More than half of the allocation – £330 million – will go to develop two sections of the A5, which runs from the Border at Aughnacloy, Co Tyrone, to Derry city, a project which the Government had previously planned to support with £400 million of funding.

    These sections will be from Derry to north of Strabane, and south of Omagh to Ballygawley in Co Tyrone.

    The Executive is spending £105 million to take forward the A8 Belfast to Larne dual carriageway, and £57 million on the A2 at Greenisland on the outskirts of north Belfast.

    ...

    He hoped that in the future, the Government would be in a position to help ensure the full upgrading of the A5.

    Mr McGuinness said: “The economic difficulties experienced by the Irish Government have severely impacted on their support to date for the A5 project, but I hope in light of these developments that they will reprofile their expenditure and increase their commitment to the project in coming years.”

    Under the St Andrews Agreement, the two administrations were to share the £800 million cost of upgrading the 50-mile A5 road, which would additionally have improved access to Letterkenny and north Donegal.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0215/1224311799362.html


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,919 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    charlemont wrote: »
    It will be a great road to open up the north west and it also saves having to upgrade the A6 as A4 will meet the A4 at Ballygawley thus not only serving Derry Strabane Omagh to Dublin but to Lisburn and Belfast too.
    I strongly doubt anyone would go so far out of their way, though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    spacetweek wrote: »
    I strongly doubt anyone would go so far out of their way, though.

    I see what you mean, I hadn't thought of the M2/M6 to Randalstown which I suppose makes it a fairly quick journey between the cities, But I reckon going via Ballygawley wouldn't be much more than 10/20 miles in the distance.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,797 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    charlemont wrote: »
    I see what you mean, I hadn't thought of the M2/M6 to Randalstown which I suppose makes it a fairly quick journey between the cities, But I reckon going via Ballygawley wouldn't be much more than 10/20 miles in the distance.
    it adds 32miles onto an otherwise 70mile journey direct.

    youd want to be going at some rate to make up the extra miles on such a short journey


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    The A6/M2 is by far the shortest and most direct route from Derry to Belfast - even if the entire A5 was upgraded overnight I suspect that most people from Derry city would continue to use the A6. And there are two major schemes in the pipeline for this route.

    I'm glad to see some of the A5 project going ahead but I'm a bit puzzled that the Omagh to Ballygawley section is going ahead first. I would have thought that an Omagh bypass and the section between Omagh and Strabane would be more of a priority?


  • Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭annfield1978


    good news, scheme will keep me busy this year anyhow


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    As this Derry-Strabanr scheme will finish north of Strabane the A5 link across to Donegal south of Lifford will be long fingered.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,226 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    I'm glad to see some of the A5 project going ahead but I'm a bit puzzled that the Omagh to Ballygawley section is going ahead first. I would have thought that an Omagh bypass and the section between Omagh and Strabane would be more of a priority?

    I said as much earlier. I wonder perhaps if Strabane - > Omagh is going to be the most contentious stretch from a planning & development perspective? It certainly seemed to be based on the amount of 'anti' signs were thrown up along this stretch.

    What is the current status of the plan for the route? Has it or will it all be approved together or will it be submitted and approved in stages?


  • Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭I dont know


    Redsoxfan wrote: »
    I said as much earlier. I wonder perhaps if Strabane - > Omagh is going to be the most contentious stretch from a planning & development perspective? It certainly seemed to be based on the amount of 'anti' signs were thrown up along this stretch.

    What is the current status of the plan for the route? Has it or will it all be approved together or will it be submitted and approved in stages?

    I think you're right about Strabane > Omagh being the most contentious stretch. There were a group of protesters camped out on the Strabane side of Newtownstewart for a long time - maybe they're putting up more of a fight than other landowners - maybe not.

    I think Omagh > Ballygawley would have always taken priority over that stretch anyway, as it would have a higher volume of traffic & I'd say it has easily had a higher number of fatalities over the years,

    Omagh is going to be an even more frustrating bottleneck without a by-pass!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,226 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan


    Reported on Highland Radio today

    http://www.highlandradio.com/2012/07/11/inquiry-gives-the-green-light-to-the-a5-upgrade-despite-2000-objections/

    I know that only sections of the route have been approved for funding, but does this planning approval mean that in theory, when* funding is received, the other sections (i.e. Strabane->Omagh) can commence without further consulation/approval or does approval of the 'scheme' just mean that it can proceed to planning....


    * very aware that this is likely to be when hell freezes over....


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭doopa


    Redsoxfan wrote: »
    Reported on Highland Radio today

    http://www.highlandradio.com/2012/07/11/inquiry-gives-the-green-light-to-the-a5-upgrade-despite-2000-objections/

    I know that only sections of the route have been approved for funding, but does this planning approval mean that in theory, when* funding is received, the other sections (i.e. Strabane->Omagh) can commence without further consulation/approval or does approval of the 'scheme' just mean that it can proceed to planning....


    * very aware that this is likely to be when hell freezes over....

    Sounds like they will do it in bits...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19062494
    The project, which will cost £330m, will improve the roads between Ballygawley and Omagh - and New Buildings and Strabane.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,214 ✭✭✭cargo


    Does anyone have any latest route plans for this yet? They seem to be changing the start finish points with every press release!!

    Good to see that it'll tie directly into the Belfast DC at Ballygawley also. Where will it stop South of Omagh?


  • Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭I dont know


    Not much happening on this thread recently. Last week, construction was delayed yet again (see below)
    Hopefully it goes ahead, and pretty soon. I know alot of guys were ready to start work on it pretty soon
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21754436
    Judge 'minded to quash' A5 decision

    A High Court judge has said he is minded to quash the regional development minister's decision to proceed with the A5 dual carriageway.

    The A5 scheme forms part of a proposed key cross-border business route linking Dublin and north west Northern Ireland.

    Mr Justice Stephens rejected the overwhelming majority of the applicant's grounds of challenge for those opposing the scheme.

    However he upheld one of the grounds of appeal.

    That was that appropriate assessment under the Habitats Directive should have been, but had not been, carried out.

    On that basis, the judge indicated that he was minded to quash the minister's decision to begin constructing the dual carriageway.

    However, he has given the department until Wednesday 20 March to make further submissions on whether they were in breach of the Habitats Directive.

    Farmers, businessmen and landowners joined together under the Alternative A5 Alliance grouping in a legal challenge to the planned stretch of dual carriageway between Derry and Aughnacloy, County Tyrone.

    Uncertainty now surrounds the overall project after the Irish government downgraded funding due to its tough economic circumstances.

    Judicial review proceedings centred on the decision to press ahead with two sections of the route, for which the Northern Ireland Executive has approved £280m.

    Work on the dual carriageway has been put on hold due to the legal intervention.

    The FB page below has been providing regular updates;
    https://www.facebook.com/SupportA5


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    The point here is that most of the objections were thrown out. This concern about rivers doesn't affect the Omagh/Ballygawley section in any case, so this can go ahead even if there is a delay elsewhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,797 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    ok, officially the landowners etc are against it on ecological grounds.
    Is there another reason because it makes no sense that businessmen and landowners are against it who would be set to gain from better access to their land and thus a bonanza cashwise if they were to sell it off?
    And businessmen who are trading would benefit with their vehicles being able to get to markets quicker and more reliably.

    In many places abroad, landowners and businesses near major infrastructural projects must contribute to the costs as they benefit from the rewards of the projects.
    That makes sense. Better infrastructre = (normally) better business
    Here though they have the infrastructure for free and dont want it!
    It doesnt make logical sense.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    A lot of the objecting has to do with the overall project appearing to be a Fenian Plot directed at Loyal Farmers. Some of the known antis were on the fringes of _political_ loyalism and looking to stir things up. :)

    EG > http://www.jimallister.org/default.asp?blogID=2088

    Then they acquired some strange bedfellows along the way eg here

    Anyway there is an excellent piece by Wesley Johnston here and Ardmacha is right. The judgement has no effect on the project south of Omagh.

    http://wesleyjohnston.wordpress.com/2013/03/12/a5-legal-challenge-what-now/
    The challenge, therefore, concentrated not on the aforementioned general issues, but on six more specific points of procedure:
    1. That the inspector at the public inquiry was biased in favour of the Department for Regional Development.
    2. A breach of an EU obligation to send a description of/information about the scheme to the Irish Government.
    3. Failure to carry out an appropriate assessment of Rivers Foyle and Finn Special Areas of Conservation under the Habitats Directive.
    4. Failure to comply with the Strategic Environmental Assessment Directive by not considering reasonable alternatives.
    5. Inadequacy of the Environmental Statement under the Environmental Impact Assessment Directive.
    6. Breach of the applicants’ property rights and other rights under the European Convention on Human Rights.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,226 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan


    It doesnt make logical sense.

    That would be an ecumenical matter...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭nordydan


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    A lot of the objecting has to do with the overall project appearing to be a Fenian Plot directed at Loyal Farmers. Some of the known antis were on the fringes of _political_ loyalism and looking to stir things up. :)

    EG > http://www.jimallister.org/default.asp?blogID=2088

    Then they acquired some strange bedfellows along the way eg here

    Anyway there is an excellent piece by Wesley Johnston here and Ardmacha is right. The judgement has no effect on the project south of Omagh.

    http://wesleyjohnston.wordpress.com/2013/03/12/a5-legal-challenge-what-now/

    ...but by cross-border politics to provide better access, at huge cost to affected farmers, from Dublin to Donegal. Hence, the fervour with which it is being driven forward by the DRD Sinn Fein Minister, while roads with far higher traffic use are denied upgrading to dual carriageway (eg A26 east of Coleraine)

    Funnily enough Jim is MLA for that area. A nice mix of tired old sectarianism and parish pump politics there from the boul Seamus...


  • Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭I dont know


    Interesting reading from Wesley Johnston there. I'm pretty hopeful that the bit that most concerns me (Omagh-Ballygawley) will go ahead soon then. The sooner they get the whole thing done the better imo.

    The DRD should be presenting any new evidence today then? Hope it goes well...


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,919 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Interesting reading from Wesley Johnston there. I'm pretty hopeful that the bit that most concerns me (Omagh-Ballygawley) will go ahead soon then. The sooner they get the whole thing done the better imo.

    The DRD should be presenting any new evidence today then? Hope it goes well...
    8 days is up tomorrow, looks like we need to wait until then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Aquarius34


    I think the Border to Lifford section should go ahead first at least, it would give most of Donegal direct access to a high standard road to the south. This is the section that doesn't seem to have much objections.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,228 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    with a border to lifford section completed, would it then be faster for Leterkenny-Belfast journeys to be made via the M1,A4, new A5? i.e. approaching Belfast city from the south.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Aquarius34


    cgcsb wrote: »
    with a border to lifford section completed, would it then be faster for Leterkenny-Belfast journeys to be made via the M1,A4, new A5? i.e. approaching Belfast city from the south.

    It would be close I would say. The current A6 is a fast moving decent road, bar the bit going through Dungiven. I still think the A6 would be marginally faster on it's current route.


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