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Bus driver banned for going too slow?

  • 17-03-2012 12:03am
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭


    Did anyone else hear Noel Brett with Matt Cooper today (16/3/12) mentioning a case where a bus driver lost his license after being pulled up for going too slowly? Seems quite harsh IMO.

    He referred to it in response to a texter complaining of being currently stuck behind a caravan somewhere. No mention of the fact that the driver shouldnt have been texting.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭Joko


    You will fail your driving test for not keeping up with traffic.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Joko wrote: »
    You will fail your driving test for not keeping up with traffic.

    No kidding?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    No kidding?
    It is called a failure to proceed or progress afaik and will fail you in the test.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    No kidding?

    No, it's a box on the examiner's sheet called something like 'failing to make sufficient progress'. While there is no minimum speed limit for driving a car, you can fail the test if you drive too slow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭UnknownSpecies


    I failed my full license test for progress on the straight :(


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    coylemj wrote: »
    No, it's a box on the examiner's sheet called something like 'failing to make sufficient progress'. While there is no minimum speed limit for driving a car, you can fail the test if you drive too slow.

    I know all that, but I thought that the case he mentioned was a bit over the top, admittedly I dont know the full circumstances, but it seems the driver was penalised for driving a bus carefully.

    My thoughts on hearing it were that some other defect must have caused the ban, such as no DOE, serious fault with the vehicle etc...


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    I can't imagine how you could lose your licence for going too slow because there isn't any offence under the RTA which relates to going too slow. He might have been sacked from a job with a bus company because there is obviously a requirement to get passengers from A to B at a reasonably fast rate and then turn the bus around for the return trip so if you drove too slowly it would eventually be grounds for dismissal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,361 ✭✭✭Itsdacraic


    I regularly encounter a bus on my commute that travels at 60km/ph. It holds up a huge line of traffic and ends up with people getting impatient and trying crazy over taking manouveres


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    coylemj wrote: »
    I can't imagine how you could lose your licence for going too slow because there isn't any offence under the RTA which relates to going too slow. He might have been sacked from a job with a bus company because there is obviously a requirement to get passengers from A to B at a reasonably fast rate and then turn the bus around for the return trip so if you drove too slowly it would eventually be grounds for dismissal.

    This was a motoring offence case as Noel Brett mentioned a Garda pulling up the driver, and the driver being banned!

    Odd?

    Its in this section, close to the start- http://media.todayfm.com/listenback/98/friday/1/popup


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Itsdacraic wrote: »
    I regularly encounter a bus on my commute that travels at 60km/ph. It holds up a huge line of traffic and ends up with people getting impatient and trying crazy over taking manouveres
    Is it some auld fella driving that thinks he's doing 60mph?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,812 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    but it seems the driver was penalised for driving a bus carefully.

    Your falling for the RSA "Speed Kills" BS. Just because someone is driving slowly doesn't mean they are driving carefully.

    My father drives slowly but he's a dangerous driver.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭doomed


    Very slow drivers can be danerous. Its almos like parking in the middle of the road. You become an obstacle and everyone has to get around you which can be hazardous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Did anyone else hear Noel Brett with Matt Cooper today (16/3/12) mentioning a case where a bus driver lost his license after being pulled up for going too slowly? Seems quite harsh IMO.

    He referred to it in response to a texter complaining of being currently stuck behind a caravan somewhere. No mention of the fact that the driver shouldnt have been texting.

    I believe Noel Brett may have been referring to the famous case in 2009 of the Mayo farmer who was summoned for failing to pay an on-the-spot fine and was also summoned for not driving with reasonable consideration for other road users as he refused to pull in on his his way home from the mart.
    The 12 month ban only applied to his driving a tractor.

    He was a part-time bus driver who received a safety award from Bus Éireann, so that's where the bus driver reference come from imo.



    http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6475&Itemid=38


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Your falling for the RSA "Speed Kills" BS. Just because someone is driving slowly doesn't mean they are driving carefully.

    My father drives slowly but he's a dangerous driver.

    So you how do know the guy driving the bus is a careless/dangerous
    driver and at the same time you have no knowledge of the case mentioned?

    You are jumping to conclusions.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    I believe Noel Brett may have been referring to the famous case in 2009 of the Mayo farmer who was summoned for failing to pay an on-the-spot fine and was also summoned for not driving with reasonable consideration for other road users as he refused to pull in on his his way home from the mart.
    The 12 month ban only applied to his driving a tractor.

    He was a part-time bus driver who received a safety award from Bus Éireann, so that's where the bus driver reference come from imo.



    http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6475&Itemid=38

    Thanks, maybe thats it, NBretts recall of it may have been imperfect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,812 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    So you how do know the guy driving the bus is a careless/dangerous
    driver and at the same time you have no knowledge of the case mentioned?

    You are jumping to conclusions.

    It was in reply to the poster I quoted saying they driver was penalised for driving safely when according to the OP they where done for driving slow.

    I was pointing out that driving slowly isn't always driving safely, no mater what the RSA say.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Joko wrote: »
    You will fail your driving test for not keeping up with traffic.

    No you wont, its not a race.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    It is called a failure to proceed or progress afaik and will fail you in the test.

    Thats called being at a stop :) Fair enough if you are only crawling forward but you dont have to go at the speed of the other cars and keep up with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,371 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    No you wont, its not a race.

    Yes you will, I was failed on my driving test for driving too slowly. I was driving down the main street in Carrick on Shannon, the road is one way and there is only one lane for driving, speed limit was 30 mph. I was driving at 22/23 mph, it's damn near impossible to drive on that street at 30 on a normal day , between the narrow space available for driving, traffic and pedestrians crossing all the time. Anyway I was failed for driving too slow, so yes it is possible.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    No you wont, its not a race.

    Yes you will. If you've actually DONE a driving test you should be aware of the category of mark-downs for "failure to make progress".

    Driving too slowly and dawdling at non-controlled junctions waiting for huge gaps are what you get marked down for on this.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,316 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    MYOB wrote: »
    Yes you will. If you've actually DONE a driving test you should be aware of the category of mark-downs for "failure to make progress".

    Driving too slowly and dawdling at non-controlled junctions waiting for huge gaps are what you get marked down for on this.

    If everyone else is doing 60km/h in a 50km/h zone and you decide to keep up with traffic, of course your going to loose marks on your test. Its a fine line.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    MYOB wrote: »
    Yes you will. If you've actually DONE a driving test you should be aware of the category of mark-downs for "failure to make progress".

    Driving too slowly and dawdling at non-controlled junctions waiting for huge gaps are what you get marked down for on this.

    Passed first time over 20 years ago ;). I agree with what you are saying in them scenarios but if you get failed for not matching the speed of the other cars or driving at the max speed limit then a question should be asked of the examiner .


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Yes you will, I was failed on my driving test for driving too slowly. I was driving down the main street in Carrick on Shannon, the road is one way and there is only one lane for driving, speed limit was 30 mph. I was driving at 22/23 mph, it's damn near impossible to drive on that street at 30 on a normal day , between the narrow space available for driving, traffic and pedestrians crossing all the time. Anyway I was failed for driving too slow, so yes it is possible.

    The speed limit is the max that you can drive at not the required driving speed .
    If you got failed for driving at that speed in that condition then you were hard done by as you drive to the conditions of the road not to the max speed limit. Driving too slow on that road would be going around 5/10 mph with the road being clear of other vehicles and pedestrians .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Passed first time over 20 years ago ;). I agree with what you are saying in them scenarios but if you get failed for not matching the speed of the other cars or driving at the max speed limit then a question should be asked of the examiner .
    You are failed for a lack of competence leading to you being too nervous to drive at a similar speed to other road users who are driving within the speed limits and obeying the rules of the road and all applicable traffic laws!

    we have all encountered the drivers on the motorway on-ramps who actually slow down on the slip road looking for a gap so they can join the motorway, or people who's driving causes issues to others because they slow down when they should logically be speeding up or drive very slowly when there is no reason for it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    You are failed for a lack of competence leading to you being too nervous to drive at a similar speed to other road users who are driving within the speed limits and obeying the rules of the road and all applicable traffic laws!

    we have all encountered the drivers on the motorway on-ramps who actually slow down on the slip road looking for a gap so they can join the motorway, or people who's driving causes issues to others because they slow down when they should logically be speeding up or drive very slowly when there is no reason for it!

    You are suppose to drive at you own pace ( within reason ) and not the other cars. Just because a car may be tailgating you it doesnt mean you should go faster or you should catch up with the car in front.
    As for cars slowing down on the on- ramps, should they just continue on and just hope someone will make room for them or is it best to adjust your speed to filter in safely? In your opinion Foggy it seems they shouldnt adjust their speed at all but just go for it and hope for the best.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    You are suppose to drive at you own pace ( within reason ) and not the other cars. Just because a car may be tailgating you it doesnt mean you should go faster or you should catch up with the car in front.
    As for cars slowing down on the on- ramps, should they just continue on and just hope someone will make room for them or is it best to adjust your speed to filter in safely? In your opinion Foggy it seems they shouldnt adjust their speed at all but just go for it and hope for the best.
    You are supposed to drive at your own pace of course but also not to cause undue interference to other road users as this would constitute a lack of consideration.

    If you are pulling onto a motorway or carriageway where traffic is travelling at 50-60mph you are failing to progress if you don't try to match the speed of the traffic before getting to the end of the feeder lane. To try to filter into a lane of faster moving traffic when you have not reached the same speed even though you have been afforded adequate time and space to reach a safe speed is just dangerous and a lack of consideration for other road users as you will force many of them to brake violently to avoid collision with your vehicle.

    If a driver doesn't have the competence to negotiate such junctions or drive at a reasonable speed like other road users are capable of then maybe they should question their need to be driving at all.

    In my opinion they should match the speed of the traffic they are joining before they reach the end of the feeder lane or slip road and if a driver finds they are unable to do this on a regular basis they should consider surrendering their license.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Agreed
    Its all down to driving to the conditions of the road be it in a built up area or the motorway or a main road . I saw a driving instructor the other day making the learner drive in a bus lane just because the learner was going slowish, which wont help the learner come the test.
    There is driving slow for a reason and then there is driving slow for no other reason than a lack of confidence which i agree should be a fail on the test but i still think that rainbowtrout was hard done by in his scenario unless there was more to it than the speed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Agreed
    Its all down to driving to the conditions of the road be it in a built up area or the motorway or a main road . I saw a driving instructor the other day making the learner drive in a bus lane just because the learner was going slowish, which wont help the learner come the test.
    There is driving slow for a reason and then there is driving slow for no other reason than a lack of confidence which i agree should be a fail on the test but i still think that rainbowtrout was hard done by in his scenario unless there was more to it than the speed.
    Not having been in Carrick on shannon on the day one will never know the circumstances behind the situation rainbowtrout described but it may have happened because the tester felt opportunities existed to pass parked vehicles more quickly than happened or possible that traffic lights showing green signals were passed too slowly? It could also have been a driving tester who viewed things differently to many others who may have passed rainbowtrout on the day, There appears to be a lot of inconsistency in testing centres wen it comes to people passing, some testers fail far more than others while some testing centres fail far less than others.

    I know myself that Naas used to have some of the hardest test routes in the country because all the road markings through the town were old and almost worn away but if you were not in the correct lane you would lose points or fail, this could have been a contributing reason for rainbowtrout's test failure in Carrick on Shannon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    If you are pulling onto a motorway or carriageway where traffic is travelling at 50-60mph you are failing to progress if you don't try to match the speed of the traffic before getting to the end of the feeder lane. To try to filter into a lane of faster moving traffic when you have not reached the same speed even though you have been afforded adequate time and space to reach a safe speed is just dangerous and a lack of consideration for other road users as you will force many of them to brake violently to avoid collision with your vehicle.

    If a driver doesn't have the competence to negotiate such junctions or drive at a reasonable speed like other road users are capable of then maybe they should question their need to be driving at all.

    In my opinion they should match the speed of the traffic they are joining before they reach the end of the feeder lane or slip road and if a driver finds they are unable to do this on a regular basis they should consider surrendering their license.
    What if they are driving something that has a lower speed limit than the traffic? Like a bus limited to 65 in a 120


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    What if they are driving something that has a lower speed limit than the traffic? Like a bus limited to 65 in a 120
    Obviously this is going to be covered by the driver driving within the law and rules of the road.


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