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A Gaeltacht in Dublin?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,116 ✭✭✭starviewadams


    If Clondalkin turns into a gaeltacht does that mean that every pub in the village will have cheap pints,as opposed to just Aras Chronain that does now?If so then I'm all for it!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 900 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    Irishheart wrote: »
    .
    I think one of the best ideas ever.
    Redesignating, as Gaeltacht, English speaking neighbourhoods, with a wholly non Gaelic lifestyle is certainly an ingenious way to cover up the failure of the Gaelic revival.


  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭FunkyDa2


    http://www.geograph.ie/photo/332084

    The original Dublin Gaeltacht. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 900 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    FunkyDa2 wrote: »
    http://www.geograph.ie/photo/332084
    The original Dublin Gaeltacht. :)
    It could be very revealing to know how much Irish is spoken there now, the road itself, with its English style houses and illegally parked cars certainly does not evoke an image of the traditional Irish way of life that the GaleGoers want to revive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    opti0nal wrote: »
    It could be very revealing to know how much Irish is spoken there now, the road itself, with its English style houses and illegally parked cars certainly does not evoke an image of the traditional Irish way of life that the GaleGoers want to revive.
    What does this "traditional Irish way of life" that you are on about, actually involve?
    Who is calling for it?
    Who lives it today, and where are they?
    And finally, what has this strange little fantasy of yours got to do with the language?


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    It could be argued that the cultural identity in this country today has not "emerged organically from people's natural interests and proclivities", but rather has been shaped by hundreds of years of British rule. This is not an anti-British, 'up the Ra' type, remark, merely pointing out that many aspects of Irish life today have had external influences and did not emerge organically. Indeed, the decline in the language was imposed by an authoritarian government, that in London. I personally have no issue with present day governments of this country redressing the balance, so it speak, by promoting aspects of Irish culture (ie. those emerged "organically from people's natural interests and proclivities" before a foreign power tried to eradicate them) such as the language. Again, this is not an Irish v British thing, but instead recognising that political circumstance has had a major influence on the success of the Irish language (or lack thereof) so the state washing it hands of it now is not "letting the language evolve (or die) organically".
    I dunno, I feel it is a Irish V Brit thing, unintentionally in many cases. The language most of us speak has the cultural misfortune :) to be called English, with all the heavy weight behind that word and the E word still rankles at the back of our collective psyche a little too much I reckon.

    It also depends what you define as "organic" and for how long the process goes on. I mean the French don't have a chip on their shoulder* about those bastard Italians who influenced their romance language and killed off Gaulish by successive waves of invasion, killing and enslavement. Ditto for the Spaniards. The Scots who speak Gaelic don't have an issue that it's origins and spread was largely down to a cultural invasion by Ireland that displaced earlier "Pictish" languages. Hell even their countries name origin translates as Little Ireland(Scotia minor). If most of them even realise this.

    However we're painfully aware of all the cultural histories about our island over the last few centuries(often very one sided and/or filtered through the lens of early 20th century Irish nationalism) and that weighs heavy on both languages I feel.








    *that can be a rare sentence to write or read. :)

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 900 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    What does this "traditional Irish way of life" that you are on about, actually involve?
    Who is calling for it?
    Who lives it today, and where are they?
    These are questions that should be put to the Irish language enthusiasts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    opti0nal wrote: »
    These are questions that should be put to the Irish language enthusiasts.
    I don't know of any language revivalists ' campaigns against "English style houses and illegally parked cars". Most Irish language enthusiasts simply want to promote a language they find relevant to their heritage or identity, or people who just happen to think it's a particularly attractive language in a literary sense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    opti0nal wrote: »
    These are questions that should be put to the Irish language enthusiasts.
    1. Why? It is a (so called) "Irish language enthusiast" who is actually asking the questions.
    2. Why don't you answer the questions I put to you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 900 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    1. Why? It is a (so called) "Irish language enthusiast" who is actually asking the questions.
    2. Why don't you answer the questions I put to you?
    If as you imply, there is no 'Irish lifestyle', then I have no idea why Irish language enthusiasts want to restore Irish as the common tongue of Ireland.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    I don't know that all enthusiasts want to restore it as the common language of Ireland.

    In any case, there is a big difference between promoting a language and promoting a lifestyle. Just because someone wants to revive a language, doesn't mean they don't want people living in architecturally modern homes who can enjoy modern lifestyles. Rather the opposite, I would have thought.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 900 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    later12 wrote: »
    I don't know that all enthusiasts want to restore it as the common language of Ireland.
    Maybe a minority don't and for them it's nice hobby as long as they don't force their choice on others. So, why the language laws and compulsory lessons for children?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    opti0nal wrote: »
    If as you imply, there is no 'Irish lifestyle', then I have no idea why Irish language enthusiasts want to restore Irish as the common tongue of Ireland.
    I am implying nothing, you brought up the phrase "Irish/Gaelic lifestyle" nobody else did, I am asking you to explain what it is.
    If you cannot, then that shows this is no more than some odd fantasy of yours that has no basis in reality, or to put it in simple English, a load of crap.

    You speak English, do you live a "traditional English" lifestyle?
    Another question, when you say traditional lifestyle, do you mean a 19th, or 21st century lifestyle or how about a 12th century one, there are quite a few "traditional lifestyle" eras to choose from. Mine (along with the vast majority of people living in Ireland) is the "traditional Irish lifestyle" of the late 20th and early 21st century.

    Where do you actually get this notion of changing lifestyles with Irish speaking, the only difference between people in any Irish speaking households and their English speaking neighbours that I have ever come across is the language they speak. Though maybe you know more Irish speakers than I do, so please do explain how their lifestyles differ, I'm sure people would be absolutely fascinated to hear about this.

    Finally, nobody is trying to "restore Irish as the common tongue of Ireland", they are trying to increase its usage, not completely supplant English.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 900 ✭✭✭opti0nal



    Finally, nobody is trying to "restore Irish as the common tongue of Ireland", they are trying to increase its usage, not completely supplant English.

    This is untue, it is the main aim of an organisation called 'Conradh na Gailge'
    Conradh na Gaeilge is the democratic forum for the Irish-speaking community and promotes the language throughout the whole of Ireland and around the world. Is main aim is to reinstate the Irish language as the common tongue of Ireland. Since its foundation on 31 July 1893 members of the Conradh have been actively promoting Irish in every aspect of life in Ireland...

    This might explain the language laws and the compulsory Irish lessons imposed on English-speaking children?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    opti0nal wrote: »
    This is untue, it is the main aim of an organisation called 'Conradh na Gailge'
    Well good luck to them.
    This might explain the language laws and the compulsory Irish lessons imposed on English-speaking children?
    Trying to change the subject to squirm your way out of a tricky situation, he he, nice one opti0nal, or should I call you cyclopath. ;)
    The "traditional" business gave you away, you refused to explain what you meant by that once before. So I shall put you on ignore again, thanks, bye.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 900 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    Well good luck to them.
    It is simply incredible that you were not aware of this organisation and its main aim when you stated that:
    nobody is trying to restore Irish as the common tongue of Ireland
    Why did you make this statement? Since you have put forward the argument that there is no 'lifestyle change' motive, what's the point in making people change the language they speak?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Opti0nal/Cyclopath2001, do you know how long ago Conradh na Gaeilge's constitution was written? Just because nobody felt the need to update that sentence from their Constitution since does not mean that is what they are actually working for today.:rolleyes:



    Why are you trying to drag this thread off topic anyway? Its about the possibility of a Gaeltacht in Dublin, not Conradh na Gaeilge's Constitution.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 900 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    do you know how long ago Conradh na Gaeilge's constitution was written? Just because nobody felt the need to update that sentence from their Constitution since does not mean that is what they are actually working for today.:rolleyes: Why are you trying to drag this thread off topic anyway? Its about the possibility of a Gaeltacht in Dublin, not Conradh na Gaeilge's Constitution.
    Deise/Cu Gaobach - Sorry if you find some facts to be inconvenient to your position. I copied that text from Conradh na Gaeilge's recently-redesigned website, so it's not as if it's a relic of their original 1893 web site. The idea of a Dublin Gaeltacht is downright silly, unless your main aim is to replace English with Irish, which is equally silly. I've no problem with such eccentric foibles as long as we don't have to pay for them and children are not forced to participate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    opti0nal wrote: »
    The idea of a Dublin Gaeltacht is downright silly, unless your main aim is to replace English with Irish, which is equally silly. I've no problem with such eccentric foibles as long as we don't have to pay for them and children are not forced to participate.

    Oh can I claim back my taxpayer money for every service provided only in English?

    The idea of a Gaeltacht anywhere doesn't 'force' anyone to participate. On the off chance you might be talking about Compulsory language classes in secondary school - I personally think that both English and Irish should be optional.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 900 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    Cliste wrote: »
    Oh can I claim back my taxpayer money for every service provided only in English?
    No, you cannot, English is our main language. Everyone benefits from English.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    opti0nal wrote: »
    Sorry if you find some facts to be inconvenient to your position. I copied that text from Conradh na Gaeilge's recently-redesigned website, so it's not as if it's a relic of their original 1893 web site. The idea of a Dublin Gaeltacht is downright silly, unless your main aim is to replace English with Irish, which is equally silly. I've no problem with such eccentric foibles as long as we don't have to pay for them and children are not forced to participate.



    I know very well where you got it from Cyclopath, I have had this discussion with you before, but the 'Main Aim' as you like to call it comes from their constitution which was written all the way back in 1893, again just because nobody has bothered to update this since then does not make it credible to suggest that this is what they are actually working for today.

    The idea of a Dublin Gaeltacht is downright silly, unless your main aim is to replace English with Irish


    Why would it be silly if your aim was not to replace English? Would it not be possible to aim for a bilingual area of Dublin?


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,780 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Would it not be possible to aim for a bilingual area of Dublin?
    Sure, as long as we can have bilingual road signs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 900 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    the 'Main Aim' as you like to call it comes from their constitution which was written all the way back in 1893, again just because nobody has bothered to update this since then does not make it credible to suggest that this is what they are actually working for today.
    ROFL, you're in denial of hard written-down facts. Simply put, you are unbelivable.

    I did not choose the term 'Main Aim', Conradh na Gaeilge did.

    Isn't it time the language movement was honest and frank with the rest of us?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    opti0nal wrote: »
    ROFL, you're in denial of hard written-down facts. Simply put, you are unbelivable.

    I did not choose the term 'Main Aim', Conradh na Gaeilge did.

    Isn't it time the language movement was honest and frank with the rest of us?



    Right, so because Duglas Hyde wrote it in 1893 and no one has updated it since, you actually think it is credible to claim that this is what the organisation as actually working for today?

    FIne, think that if you wnat, just dont get in a temper tantrum when no one takes you seriously.

    Oh and I have pointed this out to you before, Conradh na Gaeilge =/= the language movement.
    There are many organisations, several of which are bigger than Conradh that all have their own aims.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.


    I have read a copy of their Constitution, it was circulated as part of their Ard Feis Last year, and you're right, it did not contain the sentence: 'main aim is to reinstate the Irish Language as the common tongue of Ireland', it did however say 'Is í príomhaidhm na heagraíochta an Ghaeilge a athréimniú mar ghnáththeanga na hÉireann'. under the section that sets out the organisations aims.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,627 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.


    No need, Google can do it for us...

    The main aim of the organization of the restoration as the common language of Ireland


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    No need, Google can do it for us...

    The main aim of the organization of the restoration as the common language of Ireland
    Personally I would read that as "The main aim of the organization is the restoration of Irish as an ordinary/everyday language of Ireland".
    Now if it said, "mar an priomhtheanga/as the main language", that would be different.

    Beidh dhá ghnáththeangacha againn.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,627 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Personally I would read that as "The main aim of the organization is the restoration of Irish as an ordinary/everyday language of Ireland".
    Now if it said, "mar an priomhtheanga/as the main language", that would be different.

    Beidh dhá ghnáththeangacha againn.



    Well, Google translate does have an option of providing feedback. If you think it falls short, tell them.


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