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If Catholic Church had a new leader...

135

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    Doc wrote: »
    Reading the other thread I wondered if the pope was to pass away and a new pope was chosen who attempted to modernise the church and did the following:

    1: Apologised unreservedly for the sins perpetrated by members of the Catholic Church in the past and to refuse to offer protection to said parties, help bring them to justice and to bring any future criminals to justice.

    2: Preached that tolerance and respect for one and other was the most important teaching of the church and that though some aspects of modern life went against the traditional teaching of the church, (such as homosexuality and contraception) it was no ones else’s place to judge these choices or people but the person in question and God.

    3: Started selling off buildings and the huge collections of art owned by the church and funneling most of the funds directly into charity work for the poor in society and the rest to purchasing more meager functional properties.

    Would your attitude toward the Catholic Church change for the better? I appreciate that the artiest or people of other religions are not going to suddenly believe in anything they didn’t before but would you have more respect for the religion or its practitioners?

    Would agnostics or lapsed Catholics be tempted to return to the church?

    Would you want the new head of the church to do more and if so what?


    Even if the new Pope were to do all of those things, although I would greatly respect her for it (and hope she would last a good few years before some "good Catholic" bumped her off),:D I still wouldn't return to that or any other religion, because it would still be based on the God illusion, which is totally false.:):)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    Even if the new Pope were to do all of those things, although I would greatly respect her for it (and hope she would last a good few years before some "good Catholic" bumped her off),:D I still wouldn't return to that or any other religion, because it would still be based on the God illusion, which is totally false.:):)

    I wish I had the strength of faith you have in your beliefs!


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Whats needed is another reformer with the guts to take on the Curia and implement real change. Somebody young with a modern prospective on the world. Christianity needs to be dragged into the 21st century, at its very core the fundamentals are still good and worth preserving and teaching imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Yeah cool story bro, but I think the prequel will be better.
    The one about the angel loved by god the most getting jealous and causing a war in heaven.
    Dont think i'll watch the spin off where man in a floating zoo grows a beard though.

    All the stories sound insane when compacted i just didnt think someone would use a ridiculous compacted versions to disprove anything.

    In a weird way Lucifer is the hero of the bible, standing up to god, letting people know they can think for themselves, plus hell looks way more fun than heaven, itll have better music and people like Bill Hicks and Christopher Hitchens will be there, plus all the gays, non stop mardi gras!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,719 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Whats needed is another reformer with the guts to take on the Curia and implement real change. Somebody young with a modern prospective on the world. Christianity needs to be dragged into the 21st century, at its very core the fundamentals are still good and worth preserving and teaching imo.

    When you say fundamentals what do you mean, things like charity and goodwill that sort of thing or are you taking about the Jesus\God virgin mother elements of christianity?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Paddycrumlinman


    I'm amazed that people still listen to the Catholic Church let alone believe in their Bull$hit or the magic man up in the sky, Thread is a waste of 0's and 1's.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    the RCC will never select a pope that will be inclusive, humble, modest and contrite for the church's wrongdoings. It will never happen. Every pope will be almost exactly the same as the last one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    talkinyite wrote: »
    Maybe for a wedding but not a funeral. The only time I ever went to a mass was after my mate had killed himself, the priest said he was going to hell.
    Did they let him get buried in their graveyard? Not too long ago they wouldn't have.
    i shudder to think if clerical abuse was so widespread in the first world countries where we had stable governments and rule of law just how bad must it be in 3rd world countries that lack stable governments and are pretty much lawless?
    I dunno, I don't see why it would've been worse back in the day. They could do what they wanted here with impunity so why head over there to do it? Probably mostly the decent ones went over.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Wattle


    All masses should be like those in The Blues Brothers. This has to be priority number one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    amacachi wrote: »
    Did they let him get buried in their graveyard? Not too long ago they wouldn't have.

    I dunno, I don't see why it would've been worse back in the day. They could do what they wanted here with impunity so why head over there to do it? Probably mostly the decent ones went over.
    Agreed. You may as well have a comfortable parochial house, with no heavy lifting or risk of malaria when you're abusing small children.

    These days though...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Whats needed is another reformer with the guts to take on the Curia and implement real change. Somebody young with a modern prospective on the world. Christianity needs to be dragged into the 21st century, at its very core the fundamentals are still good and worth preserving and teaching imo.


    I see where you're coming from and kinda agree - Christianity must remain relevant for it to thrive. Every generation brings new challanges, discoveries, dilemmas, ideas. I very much agree that the fundamentals of Jesus Christ's teaching will never, ever get old. The naff saying "what would Jesus do?" is desperately uncool but is not far wrong - he said a lot of timeless, sensible stuff.

    What always gets alarm bells ringing for me is when people talk of "young, modern, reform". The church's track record in this area is strewn with dodgy theology, nylon vestments, wooly jumpers, woeful "music", clown-masses and nuns in tie-dye tshirts.

    Evolve based on truth - yes
    Play acting at being trendy - no


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭DavyD_83


    If Brian Cowen changed his jumper would you think he was a competent and trustworthy politician?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    kylith wrote: »
    the RCC will never select a pope that will be inclusive, humble, modest and contrite for the church's wrongdoings. It will never happen. Every pope will be almost exactly the same as the last one. I agree with so I'm gonna draw the ridiculous, lazy conclusion that they're all the same.


    Corrected for you:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    When you say fundamentals what do you mean, things like charity and goodwill that sort of thing or are you taking about the Jesus\God virgin mother elements of christianity?

    Yes things like charity and goodwill, having morals etc. Things that the R.C.C have lost sight of.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    wouldnt give a flying ****e. theyre still bull**** merchants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,853 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Seachmall wrote: »
    It's hardly the Church's fault that God keeps changing the Heaven/Hell policy...

    You'd think being all powerful he might be able to maintain some sort of website/twitter account with the up-to-date information.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    I wish I had the strength of faith you have in your beliefs!


    ROFL, it doesn't take any faith to not believe.:pac::pac::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_NpQEWDE3XBg/TPnzTVXIG6I/AAAAAAAABo8/s-khQkfy2Ks/s1600/Atheism.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Corrected for you:)
    I'm not a catholic, so I doubt I'd fully agree with any pope (or any other religious Head Honcho). I stand by my original statement though: the RCC will never select a pope that will move the RCC forward, they are too invested in their money grubbing bigotry.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    it doesn't take any faith to not believe.

    Ah come on now, we could be here till the end of time arguing that one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    Ah come on now, we could be here till the end of time arguing that one.

    Only those who foolishly believe in things like the sky fairy and immaterial, undetectable entities like an immortal soul could possibly expect to be in a position to argue anything for that long. There will still be billions, trillions of years of time left for the universe after I (and you) shuffle off this mortal coil and no longer engage in activity of any kind. :D:D:D


    http://narvilkarmihir.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/i-am-an-atheist-the-burden-of-proof-lies-on-religion-700x570.jpg


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    Only those who foolishly believe in things like the sky fairy and immaterial, undetectable entities like an immortal soul could possibly expect to be in a position to argue anything for that long. There will still be billions, trillions of years of time left for the universe after I (and you) shuffle off this mortal coil and no longer engage in activity of any kind. :D:D:D


    http://narvilkarmihir.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/i-am-an-atheist-the-burden-of-proof-lies-on-religion-700x570.jpg


    Your confidence in your belief borders on arrogance. I'm sure I'm not the first to tell you that.

    Also......where can I sign up for some of your snazzy atheism credo cards?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Your confidence in your belief borders on arrogance. I'm sure I'm not the first to tell you that.

    The logic fail here is astounding, and unfortunately all too common.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Seachmall wrote: »
    The logic fail here is astounding, and unfortunately all too common.

    Go on....please enlighten me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Go on....please enlighten me.

    The rejection of a belief is not a belief.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Go on....please enlighten me.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill

    If you become enlightened (red pill), there's NO going back. I reckon you would choose the blue pill and still 'believe' because of your NEED to believe.


    @OP: Unless the church had an Atheist pope, (impossible) a new pope will make zero difference. He will still read from the same dusty old book written by goat herders.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Seachmall wrote: »
    The rejection of a belief is not a belief.

    That's correct. It's not Ellis Dee's rejection of my belief (or anyone else's) that I was commenting on. It was Ellis Dee's belief in a Godless universe that I was commenting on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill

    If you become enlightened (red pill), there's NO going back. I reckon you would choose the blue pill and still 'believe' because of your NEED to believe.

    NO going back huh? Wait....do you reckon or believe?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    That's correct. It's not Ellis Dee's rejection of my belief (or anyone else's) that I was commenting on. It was Ellis Dee's belief in a Godless universe that I was commenting on.

    You say it's correct then contradict yourself.


    The idea that one has or needs a belief in no God is a myth.


    A "Godless universe" is a logical starting point*. Logical starting points don't require belief. Assertions contrary to that starting point require belief.


    That starting point can change depending on arguments or evidence presented but as of now the "Godless universe" is the starting point.


    *It's the starting point because it does not make any assertions that conflict with known truths, it does not make any unnecessary assertions, etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Seachmall wrote: »

    A "Godless universe" is a logical starting point*. Logical starting points don't require belief. Assertions contrary to that starting point require belief.


    That starting point can change depending on arguments or evidence presented but as of now the "Godless universe" is the starting point.


    *It's the starting point because it does not make any positive assertions, require any arguments etc.

    Your definition of a starting point that does not "require any arguments" is based on your own viewpoint and what does and does not require arguments.

    I could likewise say that "the universe began, something caused it to begin, that does not require any arguments".


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭St.Spodo


    I'd welcome such changes as an outsider but it wouldn't strengthen the case that there's a god. As such, I'd still turn a blind eye to the church.


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