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SF Aengus O'Snodaigh has claimed €50,000 in expenses for Printer Ink

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Comments

  • #32
    RGDATA!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭RGDATA!


    Kinski wrote: »
    Should've got himself a laser printer...:pac:

    beat me to it.

    confused, however, by why the Irish Times is using "ink" and "toner" interchangably in their report, as though they were the same thing (ink obviously = inkjet, toner = laser printer)

    anyone seen a better source for what kind of printers they have? seems incredible that they would actually be using inkjets for the kind of volumes they'd be printing in the dáil.


  • #33
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    This is obviously a scam of the highest order

    In 2009 or 2010 they brought in an allowance @ €2,000 per TD, so it was obvioiusly felt that €2,000 was sufficent to meet the annual needs of a TD. He was taking 12 times that amount annually

    now there is very little chance that they would set the allowance at anything under what a reasonable TD would use in the year, they will never be out of pocket, so i would like to know how he is 12 times over this new allowance


  • #34
    dolallyoh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭dolallyoh


    Disgraceful, who oversees the supplies to the Dail. They should be demoted.


  • #35
    Braylon Early Narcotic
    Posts: 0 ✭ Braylon Early Narcotic


    scholar007 wrote: »
    Maybe they were "disappeared"!

    Looks like the CIA can stop looking for the printer bomber mastermind looks like it wasn't AL Qaeda afterall, i thought he would of perfected it before he used up that amount though..:P. Seriously though the hypocrisy of this party is really starting to stink.


  • #36
    Raiser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    I'll give this a 10 day half-life before people stop muttering indignantly and 'Ctrl-P Aengus' goes back to laughing at us all while filling his pockets.......

    - Interesting re. the Daddy O'Snodaigh point, also I wonder if those products were marked up exorbitantly to go for ~€130 etc. as I doubt our Politicians shop around somehow meaning somebody somewhere is buying sportscars, yachts and sunny seaside villas etc.


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  • #37
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    Raiser wrote: »
    I'll give this a 10 day half-life before people stop muttering indignantly and 'Ctrl-P Aengus' goes back to laughing at us all while filling his pockets.......

    You are accusing him of personally financially benefiting from this? Do you want to go into details on this more serious accusation?


  • #38
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    ayeboy wrote: »
    I totally agree. The moderator thinks this isnt a big deal?? Its day light robbery and O'Snodaigh deserves the sack.

    And how exactly would you sack someone who did not act illegally and spent within his allocated budget?

    There are regulations determining what use you can put resources provided by the Oireachtas to. Just because you claim within the allowable amount does not make it a given that those resources were used in accordance with the rules. Furthermore, it doesn't make claiming 50K on printing any more ethical.

    Joe Duffy is set to discuss this in a bit in anycase.


  • #39
    ayeboy
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭ayeboy


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    You do realise last year he still claimed less than the average amount in expenses claimed by TD's, so chances are if he was replaced it would mean someone who has even higher expenses would replace him.

    And how exactly would you sack someone who did not act illegally and spent within his allocated budget?

    I didnt say sack him, I said he desrves the sack but thats what's wrong with the country when those in power can take the piss in this manner with no consequences.

    But what's a hundred times worse is peoples' attitudes (like yours)...ah sure the next man will only be worse!!


  • #40
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,381 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    You are accusing him of personally financially benefiting from this? Do you want to go into details on this more serious accusation?
    Lets take a step back here.
    He may not have directly financially benefited from this. (the 50K didnt go into his own pocket obviously, it was the value of toner/ink used)
    One has to ask what this toner/ink was used for however. He may have benefited from that either directly or indirectly and that 50K worth of ink gives him a direct cost benefit against someone who didnt have access to that amount of ink. One only has to look at the BIK tax laws to see that there is precedence for this type of logic.


  • #41
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    kippy wrote: »
    Lets take a step back here.
    He may not have directly financially benefited from this. (the 50K didnt go into his own pocket obviously, it was the value of toner/ink used)
    One has to ask what this toner/ink was used for however. He may have benefited from that either directly or indirectly and that 50K worth of ink gives him a direct cost benefit against someone who didnt have access to that amount of ink. One only has to look at the BIK tax laws to see that there is precedence for this type of logic.

    Right, but TD's get expenses for a whole range of things, O Snodaigh claimed less than the average TD in the Dail claimed last year, so in this one area he may have benefited greatly but he would have had to have been extremely frugal in virtually every other area to compensate so that he would end in the lower half of TD's expense claims. In these areas his competition would have had the advantage of greater resource spend over him.


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  • #42
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,381 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    Right, but TD's get expenses for a whole range of things, O Snodaigh claimed less than the average TD in the Dail claimed last year, so in this one area he may have benefited greatly but he would have had to have been extremely frugal in virtually every other area to compensate so that he would end in the lower half of TD's expense claims. In these areas his competition would have had the advantage of greater resource spend over him.
    He may have last year, this 50k in toner covers 2007 and 2008, not last year.

    The defense of "the other guy is worse" isn't, in my opinion, valid.

    Yeah, he's not the only one operating in this manner, I've already stated that.


  • #43
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    kippy wrote: »
    Lets take a step back here.
    He may not have directly financially benefited from this. (the 50K didnt go into his own pocket obviously, it was the value of toner/ink used)
    One has to ask what this toner/ink was used for however. He may have benefited from that either directly or indirectly and that 50K worth of ink gives him a direct cost benefit against someone who didnt have access to that amount of ink. One only has to look at the BIK tax laws to see that there is precedence for this type of logic.

    Right, but TD's get expenses for a whole range of things, O Snodaigh claimed less than the average TD in the Dail claimed last year, so in this one area he may have benefited greatly but he would have had to have been extremely frugal in virtually every other area to compensate so that he would end in the lower half of TD's expense claims. In these areas his competition would have had the advantage of greater resource spend over him.

    That does not clear up the argument that he abused this specific expenses allowance.

    O'Snodaigh insists that this is all above board and he was merely printing information for use in his local constituency.

    This begs the question - how do you manage to print 2.5 million leaflets over two years in a constituency with 50 thousand households. It does not add up.


  • #44
    jbkenn
    Registered Users Posts: 919 ✭✭✭jbkenn


    Well... paper never refused ink... and neither did Aengus Ó Snodaigh


  • #45
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    It seems to me to be quite simple. TDs were allowed to help themselves to ink and every day he was in Leinster House O Snodaigh shoved 3 in his pocket on his way out.

    Technically he was allowed to but seriously.. my work place allowed me unlimited photocopies - didn't mean I was making millions of them. I made exactly what I needed.


  • #46
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    MOD NOTE:

    Normally moderation isn't addressed on-thread, but let me address the movement to the Cafe issue.

    The thread started with no external link or information, but a write-up of a radio report. This is what ensued:
    Kristopherus wrote: »
    Not to mention banknotes:D:D:D:D:D
    F-Stop wrote: »
    Caught CMYK handed.
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    It's that damn tricolour.....we really should have just a green flag and get him a multi-colour-cartridges printer!
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    *Looks at Ireland - facepalms in despair.*
    Lapin wrote: »
    Proof that the Shinners just cannot let go of their colourful past.

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    ..............................:pac:


    Be honest: does this look like a Politics thread, or an AH thread?

    I kept it open because I do think that TD expenses are a serious issue, but given that half of the responses on the first page didn't seem to take it so seriously, it seemed more appropriate for the Cafe - which was created to address exactly this kind of posting.

    If you have any other questions, please PM me rather than posting on-thread.

    SSR

    EDIT: I've received a few PMs on this, so rather than infinite back and forth via PM let's bring the convo to the "A discussion on the rules" thread - there are broader issues here about the Cafe vs. the main forum, threadlocking, etc. anyway that are worth discussing.


  • #47
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    That does not clear up the argument that he abused this specific expenses allowance.

    O'Snodaigh insists that this is all above board and he was merely printing information for use in his local constituency.

    This begs the question - how do you manage to print 2.5 million leaflets over two years in a constituency of 50 thousand household. It does not add up.

    Well I am sure there are people looking into that at this moment in order to keep this story going and if they discover that he was not using the ink for leaflets etc for his constituents we can deal with that then if such evidence exists.

    The story at the minute is the amount spent, not what it was used for as that is just unfounded speculation.


  • #48
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,381 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    Well I am sure there are people looking into that at this moment in order to keep this story going and if they discover that he was not using the ink for leaflets etc for his constituents we can deal with that then if such evidence exists.

    The story at the minute is the amount spent, not what it was used for as that is just unfounded speculation.

    The story is evolving. The reporter who broke the story was just on Radio 1 in the past few minutes advising that based on the information they had gotten from O Snodaigh today, they have submitted more FOI requests to determine:
    How many pages had each of the two printers that O Snodaigh said he had been using these toners in printed.
    How many reams of paper had O Snodaigh taken from the same stores (enough to print 3.5 million pages is a lot of paper)
    What exactly the ink was used for?
    The amount of money spent and what it was used for are inherently linked.



    You seem to be very defensive of O Snodaigh, I fail to see why.


  • #49
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,078 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    Is there evidence suggesting O Snodaigh was doing anything underhanded when claiming for these expenses?

    Depends on your definition of underhanded.
    He may not have been doing something illegal but he sure as hell was doing something very unusual.
    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    Right, but TD's get expenses for a whole range of things, O Snodaigh claimed less than the average TD in the Dail claimed last year, so in this one area he may have benefited greatly but he would have had to have been extremely frugal in virtually every other area to compensate so that he would end in the lower half of TD's expense claims. In these areas his competition would have had the advantage of greater resource spend over him.

    For a start that is not a fair comparison since he is a Dublin based TD who lives within 15 odd miles of the Dail so would not AFAIK be able to draw down subsistence expenses that rural TDs could.
    Also I can't see his travel expenses rival those of a TD from outside Dublin.

    So unless he was pulling a callely and commutting from his "home" in Dingle then his expenses should be in the lower half anyway.
    So less of the lauding him on this one.
    southsiderosie wrote: »
    MOD NOTE:

    Normally moderation isn't addressed on-thread, but let me address the movement to the Cafe issue.

    The thread started with no external link or information, but a write-up of a radio report. This is what ensued:


    Be honest: does this look like a Politics thread, or an AH thread?

    I kept it open because I do think that TD expenses are a serious issue, but given that half of the responses on the first page didn't seem to take it so seriously, it seemed more appropriate for the Cafe - which was created to address exactly this kind of posting.

    If you have any other questions, please PM me rather than posting on-thread.

    SSR

    Actually I want to discuss this and on here.
    Otherwise it will be shelved in the background.

    There have been a few cases AFAIK where topics have been shifted because they have been deemed not lofty enough for discussion in these forums.
    Yet they are topics of discussion in real political circles.

    This is currently the most discussed political item in the media today and the fact that this forum choses to discuss it in the joke section of the forum says more about this forum than it does the topic.

    People may joke about it, but it is still a very serious item and some of us would actually like to discuss it seriously and in the politics forum.

    I await the usual mod warning for daring to challenge the status quo.


  • #50
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    The Irish Daily Mail reports today that Mr O Snodaigh took three toner packs – valued at an average of €130 – each day the Dail sat in 2007. The total value was €25,969

    In 2008 he took 219 print cartridges valued at €24,701 bringing the two year total value to €50,671

    http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2009/SF_TD_Expenses.pdf

    That is odd, his total expenses for 2007 are given as €22,973 but the Mail say he claimed €25,969 in toner alone. Both can't be right...


  • #51
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    :D Maybe o snodaigh thought they where a different sort of cartridges :D


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  • #52
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,381 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2009/SF_TD_Expenses.pdf

    That is odd, his total expenses for 2007 are given as €22,973 but the Mail say he claimed €25,969 in toner alone. Both can't be right...

    Well this could be another "nuance" of how political expense accounting words.
    Perhaps certain things (such as this type of thing, paper, office stationary) aren't actually counted towards claimed expenses as they are not essentially a sum of money that the politician has claimed as reimbursement towards travel/subsistence/paying of staff.
    One has to wonder what else isn't covered in these expense documents.


  • #53
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2009/SF_TD_Expenses.pdf

    That is odd, his total expenses for 2007 are given as €22,973 but the Mail say he claimed €25,969 in toner alone. Both can't be right...

    Do these printer cartridges actually come under expenses?? I'd be surprised if they have anything to do with expenses to be honest


  • #54
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Do these printer cartridges actually come under expenses?? I'd be surprised if they have anything to do with expenses to be honest

    I am assuming it falls under the Special Secretarial Allowance which is an expense allowance I believe:

    The Special Secretarial Allowance can be used for the following purposes:
    1. the purchase of secretarial equipment (other than equipment already provided
    by the Office under other Regulations),
    2. the purchase of secretarial services under a contract for services (e.g. a specific
    project such as research or web design done by a contractor) and
    3. the employment of temporary fixed-term employees carrying out secretarial
    services (i.e. a contract of service)

    Examples under 1) and 2) above may include;
    Advertising Constituency Clinics (advertising Clinic and not Party)
    Web Design/Maintenance/Hosting/Registration
    Leaflet Printing
    Leaflet Distribution
    Newsletters
    Secretarial Services
    Research Work
    Speech Writing
    Preparation of Press Release
    Database Work
    Christmas Cards (advertising Clinic and not Party)
    Office Equipment - Photocopier/Fax etc (not supplied by the Houses)
    Office Furniture (not supplied by the Houses)
    Consultancy


  • #55
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    the next post i see squabbling about moderation on thread particularly after that mod gave instruction to take it to feedback, gets infracted and/or banned.
    you have a problem with posts, report them


  • #56
    omerin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭omerin


    he's to appear on the 6 o clock news tonight with Brian Dobson, mono to mono where he will fess up. The man has ink on his hands


  • #57
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Mary Lou has came out in his defense. Poor Aengus, sure if he was simply told he was spending crazy money on ink he would have stopped.
    Ms McDonald said Mr Ó Snodaigh did not realise the cost and would not have run up such a bill had he been advised by the Oireachtas authorities.

    Source: http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0228/osnodaigha.html

    Honestly like. He claims an unreal amount of expenses as it is, €30k+ in 2011 alone. Himself and the Sinn Fein party seem to think they can justify this and than go ranting when the government have to get a bail out, make cuts, raise taxs etc.

    Is it any wonder we are in a bloody recession and needing a bailout when expenses like this are deemed acceptable.


  • #58
    IRE60
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭IRE60


    If they do it under FDI, interesting to see who he bought them from, as I assume they are some invoices supplied for the goods

    ED: sorry I just read that he took physical possession of the goods from the stores (?)

    C


  • #59
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    You do realise last year he still claimed less than the average amount in expenses claimed by TD's, so chances are if he was replaced it would mean someone who has even higher expenses would replace him.
    How many Dublin TDs claimed more than him?
    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    Right, but TD's get expenses for a whole range of things, O Snodaigh claimed less than the average TD in the Dail claimed last year, so in this one area he may have benefited greatly but he would have had to have been extremely frugal in virtually every other area to compensate so that he would end in the lower half of TD's expense claims. In these areas his competition would have had the advantage of greater resource spend over him.
    He claimed as much as anyone in Dublin did.

    If he used that much ink then why is there no mention of the few hundred thousand (I'll be generous) sheets of paper that also would've been used up?


  • #60
    golfball37
    Registered Users Posts: 4,510 ✭✭✭golfball37


    An expense from 5 years ago brought to light the same week polls show SF as gaining ground on FF.

    I'm not suggesting anything of course but if this expense had been accrued in the current climate then Mr O'Snoddy should be removed from office.

    2007/08 was a different time in economic terms however.


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  • #61
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    He printed his leaflets on regular printers rather than using the big industrial photocopier that everyone else uses. Lazy and stupid.

    He didn't break any rules however and doesn't do it anymore.


This discussion has been closed.
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