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Septic tank charges

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,833 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    The Eu are the ones forcing the issue here, its not our government, they will be fined shortly if they dont introduce these charges. The charge is negligible in any event.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,452 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    The Eu are the ones forcing the issue here, its not our government, they will be fined shortly if they dont introduce these charges. The charge is negligible in any event.

    The EU is requiring general compliance and is in no way determining the exact current provisions of the bill progressing through Leinster House.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Cedrus


    But I am not polluting, so why am I paying?

    Prove It.
    No proof = No compliance


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭Cool Mo D


    ardmacha wrote: »
    This too is simplistic. For instance, you only have to look at the higher rates of rent supplement paid in urban areas.

    But this doesn't change the point. People on public sewers should pay a service charge. People providing their own facilities should be inspected. The government's mistake here was not introducing an urban charge.

    No it isn't too simplistic. The only parts of the country that pay more tax than they receive in Government spending are Dublin and Cork city.

    And people connected to the public water system will be paying for it soon enough too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    But I am not polluting, so why am I paying?

    Because you own a potential source of pollution. That source will be inspected to see if it is likely to cause pollution, and to help prevent it from doing so. The cost is relatively nominal.

    If in fact you did cause any significant pollution, you would probably not in fact be required to pay anything because you're unlikely to be capable of making a meaningful payment towards the cleanup costs.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭Icepick


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    The problem is that if you do, as a result of a poor septic tank, clean-up is next to impossible. The "stitch in time saves nine" rule applies to pollution with "nine" replaced by a very much larger number.

    They've been doing this in Cavan for the last 8 years, and rural life in Cavan hasn't collapsed as a result. And while they'll have to pay the registration fee for the national scheme, they're unlikely to have to pay for remediation or repair work, because they'll already have had to do that.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw
    Will people actually be forced to clean up or only to fix/rebuild the tank?
    Either way, their ignorance is the cause.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Will you be paying for an inspection of your taxpayer-provided urban sewage system ?

    Seeing as its maintained by the council, which I fund as a taxpayer, I'm already paying for those inspections.

    Which I know happen, as I've seen them being done. CCTV kit down manholes, etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭bbsrs


    MYOB wrote: »
    Seeing as its maintained by the council, which I fund as a taxpayer, I'm already paying for those inspections.

    Which I know happen, as I've seen them being done. CCTV kit down manholes, etc.

    Well as a rural taxpayer should I be entitled to the same council inspections without extra charges?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    bbsrs wrote: »
    Well as a rural taxpayer should I be entitled to the same council inspections without extra charges?

    Get connected to the municipal sewerage system.

    Economies of scale. Those of us who burden the state less for basic services happen to get a few others in return.

    "rural taxpayers" rely on transfers from urban areas - specifically one large urban area - to support their state services. They can't cover them themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    MYOB wrote: »
    Seeing as its maintained by the council, which I fund as a taxpayer, I'm already paying for those inspections.

    Which I know happen, as I've seen them being done. CCTV kit down manholes, etc.


    Sorry MYOB but rural sewage is not provided free of charge by the council like in towns, the owner pays full whack to build their facilities. I don't even know if there's a charge to connect into an urban network

    Meanwhile urban sewage & water is subsidised by by rural dwellers through motor tax, while they often have to pay a group scheme for water.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    No it isn't too simplistic. The only parts of the country that pay more tax than they receive in Government spending are Dublin and Cork city.

    I don't doubt this. But there is considerable government spending in Dublin on hospitals, universities and government itself, generating much of this tax.


  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭northknife


    Why do they need us to pay €50 to register.

    Haven't they got this information already with our planning applications.

    Get these dopes in the planning offices to do a bit of work for a change and sort through applicants that were successful and built septic tanks.

    It's not as if they are over worked now is it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭LK_Dave


    The solution is composting toilets. Why pay for a septic tank upgrade when money is tight when a bucket and some sawdust will suffice.

    I still have elderly relatives who do not have plumbing in their cottage. The hedge still servers them.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Sorry MYOB but rural sewage is not provided free of charge by the council like in towns, the owner pays full whack to build their facilities

    Which they should have been fully aware of when they made the choice to build in the country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    MYOB wrote: »
    Which they should have been fully aware of when they made the choice to build in the country.

    They were - it's included in the cost of building the dwelling.

    So why are they being asked to pay up even more despite any evidence that they are polluting?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭wiseguy


    I have an waste-treatment plant which was 5x more expensive than septic tank to install
    and costs 170 a year to inspect during the yearly inspection.

    Will I have to pay again for someone else to examine it?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    antoobrien wrote: »
    So why are they being asked to pay up even more despite any evidence that they are polluting?

    Studys have shown that a large number of them are polluting, hence the EU order to ensure they get inspected.

    Ensuring something works and repairing it if not is part of the maintainence people should have budgeted to cover.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,639 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    MYOB wrote: »
    Studys have shown that a large number of them are polluting, hence the EU order to ensure they get inspected.

    Ensuring something works and repairing it if not is part of the maintainence people should have budgeted to cover.
    Could you link on those studies, thanks.

    Most human activities can impact the environment. For these tanks, are they of such that it would have that adverse consequences?
    That would could be classed as polluting to a degree that would harm health.
    That given the differing geology in Ireland, is a nation wide scheme needed.

    Furthermore, the EU has core competances, one being the environment. However, in the context of the EU project, this historical should be targeted at the industrial base and not the common citizens, thus IMHO they overstep their authority.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Funny thing is there seem to be a lot of protestors from Galway in particular. Do they not remember crypto, and what caused it.

    This is a modest charge (which is subsidised) to save people from being poisoned by their own shit. (And their neighbours')


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭wiseguy


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Funny thing is there seem to be a lot of protestors from Galway in particular. Do they not remember crypto, and what caused it.

    This is a modest charge (which is subsidised) to save people from being poisoned by their own shit. (And their neighbours')

    From what I remember it was town waste system in Tuam town that caused the crypto outbreak, not septic tanks.

    This i a charge that will not go to improve the environment nor is it ringfenced.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    http://www.antaisce.ie/Portals/0/Newsletters/dec2011/dec2011.html#Article7
    The stark reality is that the major drinking water crises of recent years are linked to inappropriately sited or poorly maintained septic tanks. For example, Galway's large-scale outbreak of cryptosporidium in 2007 (where more than 250 people became seriously ill) was traced in large part to sewage from poorly-maintained and wrong-sited septic tanks getting into Lough Corrib, from where drinking water is sourced.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    n97 mini wrote: »

    Nobody in Galway would believe an taisce if they told you today was Friday.

    The EPA, Galway City & County councils have never actually traced the cause of the outbreak - which would be included in the an tasice propaganda if there were any evidence of it.

    Also Gormless would ahve stuck the boot into septic tanks if he got the chance but when asked
    In reply to questions from the media, the Minister would not be drawn on who was to blame for the cryptosporidium outbreak

    The so called link to the sewerage tanks was brought up as a way of distracting from the fact that Galway City council were sitting on money to upgrade the ancient treatment plant in Terryland (no not the new one beside terryland park, the smaller old one near the QB) when the crypto outbreak happened.

    It also distracts from the fact that GCC weren't testing the water often enough. They were testing it once a month, when they should have been testing the raw water once a week and the processed water daily.

    Can anybody tell me if there's a treatment plant in Moycullen, Oughterard, Cong, Clonbur or any of the other towns/villages near the Corrib River/Lake system as these places would be far more likely sources of the pollution.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,639 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Firstly, I'd accept that An Taisce is neutral in that it non funded by government.
    However it mentioned rights to water. No right is absolute, as per the rulings on the consitituion and must be balanced on other rights, such as that of the mentioned right to the enjoyment private property mentioned in said constitution which is being chipped away by such government interference.

    From a google seacrch, the following answers and rebuts the An Taisce arguement.
    A key point being:
    "
    Several investigations have failed to find the source of the outbreaks but there are a number of facts to be taken into consideration. Chief among these is that many towns and villages in Co Galway have either inadequate or non-existent wastewater treatment plants, and the now upgraded Terryland treatment plant in Galway city was inadequate at the time of the cryptosporidium outbreak.
    "


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Phil Hogan also attributed Galway's water pollution to septic tanks, on Newstalk earlier this week.

    However there are always people who will argue otherwise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭Solidchrome


    ardmacha wrote: »
    The usual bleating. It is no more unreasonable to have a septic tank inspection charge than a charge for a NCT inspection or a driving test.

    Great attitude. I bet you would soon bleat yourself if Hogan sent you a bill for over 5000 euros to upgrade your sewage pipes and charge you an inspection fee on top.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Great attitude. I bet you would soon bleat yourself if Hogan sent you a bill for over 5000 euros to upgrade your sewage pipes and charge you an inspection fee on top.

    If the NCT said you had 4 bald tyres and a defective headlight would you be bleating on about Leo Varadkar is trying to screw you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭Solidchrome


    n97 mini wrote: »
    If the NCT said you had 4 bald tyres and a defective headlight would you be bleating on about Leo Varadkar is trying to screw you?

    Duh. I would if there was nothing wrong with my tyres and 'defective' headlight and that rule only applied because I live in the country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Phil Hogan also attributed Galway's water pollution to septic tanks, on Newstalk earlier this week.

    So, what was he basing it on - any actual facts or a plausible theory that people unfamiliar with the area will accept as fact.

    Can anybody indicate a report that has been published (as opposed to politicians stating something in the media) that blames it on sewage tanks?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭wiseguy


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Phil Hogan also attributed Galway's water pollution to septic tanks, on Newstalk earlier this week.

    However there are always people who will argue otherwise.

    Where is the proof


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Duh. I would if there was nothing wrong with my tyres and 'defective' headlight and that rule only applied because I live in the country.
    They'll still charge you €50 to tell you nothing is wrong! This is the same as the septic tank tax remember!

    And anyway, isn't the NCT anti-rural dwellers to begin with? It only applies to cars, and rural dwellers need cars to get around as they have no public transport. Lots of people in cities, Dublin especially don't need cars at all.


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