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A Mere Mention of Abortion.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭metaoblivia


    There's absolutely no medical basis for the ultrasounds in this case, and the patients don't have to look at the image. Republicans just want to punish and humiliate women for making the decision, and they aren't even pretending any different. Grotesque.

    Exactly. That's exactly what they were trying to do. And Giselle is right too - it basically amounted to state-sponsored rape and, I would add, slut shaming. Oh, and for the record, the bill was introduced by a woman. It probably shouldn't, but that fact rankles me just that much more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    There are a reasons for an ultrasound when a surgical abortion is to be preformed, but not for when the abortion pill is being used, but the bill would want all women looking to have an abortion to have an ultrasound scan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭PrincessLola


    I didn't read through the entire thread but it seems most people are saying something like: 'I wouldn't have one my self but I support the right to choose'.

    Heh, is no one on here going to admit there are circumstances in which they'd have one?

    Edit: ok so there are people giving their stories, never mind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Kooli


    I didn't read through the entire thread but it seems most people are saying something like: 'I wouldn't have one my self but I support the right to choose'.

    Heh, is no one on here going to admit there are circumstances in which they'd have one?

    Edit: ok so there are people giving their stories, never mind.

    I would have one in any circumstances in which I found myself pregnant and didn't want to be pregnant or have a child.

    Luckily enough I am now in a position where if I got pregnant by accident it wouldn't be a big deal, but there were times in the past when I had pregnancy scares and if I had been pregnant I would have had an abortion and it would have been 100% the right decision for me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭tatabubbly


    I'm 23. If I was any younger than I am now, yeah, I'd of had an abortion. But I was always careful with contraceptives etc so never had to go down that avenue. I'm totally pro-choice and I would never ever think any different about people who had one.

    I studied the ethics around neo-natal intensive care in college. Some of the facts were very hard to swallow. I know pro-lifers go on sometimes about babies being born at 24 weeks and surviving but do they honestly know what kind of a life the huge majority of these premature babies have??
    Well according to the statistics, not a nice one.

    Thats off topic but I just wanted to point out that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

    Abortion is hard and difficult enough mentally and physically without having to worry about travelling to another country to get it done. It should be legalised in Ireland and everybody should mind their own damn business about who gets it done and why.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Mollikins wrote: »
    I don’t have much of a problem with abortion itself. I don’t agree with it but at the same time I don’t think I’d judge someone else for having one. It’s not a decision a woman takes lightly and it’s likely she has a very good reason for doing so. But what I do have a problem with is women using it as a method of contraception. It’s on the increase and it’s very disturbing to hear of such stories.

    Also the 24 week cut off point needs to be revised. So many babies are being born earlier and earlier and surviving thanks to advances in medicine. I know of 2 babies born severely premature (23 and 26 weeks) that are getting stronger everyday and are most definitely going to survive. The little baby born at 23 weeks legally could have been aborted if that was his mothers wish. And that is so incredibly wrong. :(

    I'm sorry if this is OT, but this is just wrong. The survival rates for 23 weeks is very low, and 22 weeks, I think there has been one documented case of a child surviving and not having severe health problems. +90% of babies were just not meant to survive outside of the womb at 24 weeks, and even those that do require intensive medical intervention.

    To tatabubbly's point, one of my best friends is a pediatrician, and she noted that the neonatal intensive care unit was the biggest money-spinner in the children's hospital she worked at (which is one of the best in the U.S.) because a) the cost of keeping preemies alive is astronomical, and b) those kids will be back in the hospital repeatedly during their childhoods.

    As for abortion, I don't think it is anyone else's business: it is between a woman, her family (if the situation permits), and her doctor. I don't judge other people for having them because I am not the one who has to live with the consequences.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    I've just read that the 'personhood' bill in Virginia, the one espousing the compulsory IV ultrasound, has fallen after the Governor, Bob McDonnell, withdrew his support.


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/24/as-virginia-ultrasound-rule-fails-is-gop-seeing-reproductive-rights-backlash.html

    “No person should be directed to undergo an invasive procedure by the state, without their consent, as a precondition to another medical procedure,” he said in a statement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭hattoncracker


    Giselle wrote: »
    I've just read that the 'personhood' bill in Virginia, the one espousing the compulsory IV ultrasound, has fallen after the Governor, Bob McDonnell, withdrew his support.






    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/24/as-virginia-ultrasound-rule-fails-is-gop-seeing-reproductive-rights-backlash.html

    “No person should be directed to undergo an invasive procedure by the state, without their consent, as a precondition to another medical procedure,” he said in a statement.


    Thank goodness for that!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Giselle wrote: »
    I've just read that the 'personhood' bill in Virginia, the one espousing the compulsory IV ultrasound, has fallen after the Governor, Bob McDonnell, withdrew his support.


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/24/as-virginia-ultrasound-rule-fails-is-gop-seeing-reproductive-rights-backlash.html

    “No person should be directed to undergo an invasive procedure by the state, without their consent, as a precondition to another medical procedure,” he said in a statement.
    Thank goodness for that!

    In that case, the governor's name was being bandied about as a potential vice-presidential candidate for Republicans. However, signing that bill would have lost them a lot of support amongst moderate Republicans and independent voters, who are the main 'swing' bloc of voters in general elections. It is hard to claim that you are a small government conservative when you mandate invasive medical procedures.

    I think this about sums up the Republican approach to reproductive rights:

    tumblr_lxnsi3n23R1qg9eupo1_400.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭yellow hen


    I didn't read through the entire thread but it seems most people are saying something like: 'I wouldn't have one my self but I support the right to choose'.

    Heh, is no one on here going to admit there are circumstances in which they'd have one?

    Edit: ok so there are people giving their stories, never mind.

    I think this an important point. Until you stand in a pregnant womans shoes you have no idea of the fears or anxieties which she feels. Whilst we can all have an opinion, not one of us has the right to judge someone else. It is an incredibly difficult decision for someone to make and it us one which doesn't need to be made harder by pontificators and personal agenda holders. . I am pro choice and would consider all my options if the need arose.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭hattoncracker


    Can I just say, this is one of the most civilized threads I've ever read on abortion.

    Its nice that we can at least have one thread where people don't argue about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I also have had an abortion. I got pregnant for the first time at 21 & have a wonderful 10 year old son who I have raised alone but when he was 9 I had a failure of contraception & had an abortion. I have a great career and a loving family but I could not face bringing up another child by myself. I want a family if I am to have more kids and the father in this case did not want that. He was fine with the decision & travelled with me. It was still an awful experience & while I do not regret it it still upsets me to think of it, which I do often. Very few make this decision lightly but they are the instances that are used in the arguments. I think it is awful that myself & the 3 other women on here who have experienced this have had to comment anonymously when discussing this topic. And just to add I would tell some friends of my experience but not all & sometimes that is because I respect their views on this matter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6 garciaanon


    I had an abortion too. I waited til I was almost 12 weeks to make the decision so I could really really know whether it was the right thing for me or not. I used to get ill when stressed, and threw up a pill during exam time.

    I got really ill, was out of work from the day I found out, I knew if I couldn't go back I would never have the money to raise a kid, I knew I wasn't emotionally ready and myself and my boyfriend had been together for less than a year. My boyfriend was 60/40 for not keeping it. I needed some time to think.

    Because I was really ill (hyperemesis), I had to tell my boss what happened. He spread it around the whole of my workplace that I was pregnant. I confided in one of my cousins who I thought I could trust, and she told all my family.

    I got an acceptance letter from college, and that was the day I made up my mind. I remember opening the letter, reading it, and then having to run outside and get sick for ten minutes. When I got back in I rang the clinic, I could barely speak I was so weak from the sickness. This was on a bank holiday Monday, my appointment was on Saturday. I left my own house to travel back to my mothers and stay there til it was time to leave for Dublin on Friday, I told her what I was planning, she was supportive but told me not to tell my sister. On the Wednesday I started vomiting blood. I had to go back into hospital for fluids, and because I was 11 weeks they took me for a scan on the Thursday and I was given a picture, which I still have.

    On Friday I got out of the hospital and travelled back to my own house in Dublin which is near the airport. When we arrived, the clinic had arranged a free taxi from the airport. I was so shocked that at least five other women on my flight had been travelling to the same place as me. I had a consultation before my procedure, I wanted to be sedated, they had to consult with their surgeon, because I'd only just gotten out of hospital and they said there was a chance I might not be able to have the procedure because I was so ill. I got so afraid at that point, but they said it was ok.

    I went downstairs to the waiting room, I sat there looking at all of the women around me. I remember thinking how nice it smelled in the clinic, not like hospitals. They called my name and I had to get undressed and put on a gown, as I was being lead into the room the lady asked me 'are you sure?'. I said yes, put my legs in the stirrups and then they gave me an injection. Everything got a bit hazy then. I woke up towards the end and it hurt a bit. When it was over I went to the recovery room, sat in a nice comfortable chair, and they gave me a heat pack for my tummy and a biscuit and some juice, painkillers and antibiotics. I sat there and rested for a half hour. Then I left, and the sickness was just gone. I had the first proper meal I'd had in ages, and didn't feel nauseous or weak.

    The worst part was when I came home, I had to lie to everyone and said I lost it. The guilt over lying and people offering me condolences has been the worst thing, but I know I'd lose a lot of my family and friends over it. I never once regretted my decision, I just wish I hadn't had to travel for it, but the guilt over lying eats me up. I wish I didn't have to, I wish I could be honest with the people I love without fear of them judging me, but I'd rather that than have kept the baby just to keep them happy. Non-biased counselling is very hard to find, I have a session on Monday in my university but I haven't decided whether to tell them the truth or not because it's sponsored by the chaplaincy service in my uni, and I'm afraid they might refuse to help me..

    This is the first time I've ever shared this experience honestly with anyone. I am doing it because I hope it helps someone who feels that they cannot express their experiences, or who is considering abortion.

    You are not alone. <3


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    my mother got pregnant with me when she was a teenager, so was my father, abortion was a very very real option for them. it was the 70's, ireland was a different place, they had no money, not married etc. my mam had family in england so she could have got one and she thought about it.
    in the end she didnt, and she kept me.

    anyhow, i am 100% pro-choice, if she had have gone through with the abortion i wouldnt be here, BUT that doesnt stop me from understanding that her life would have been a LOT different if she didnt have me.
    i dont know if things wouldve worked out better for her, but maybe they would. i could not judge my mother at all for having an abortion and if i hadve been in her shoes i would more than likely gone through with it.

    i believe that the one thing that stopped her was the huge influence of the church on her and people at the time.

    i would never judge anyone for having an abortion, in fact, out of 5 close friends, 3 have had abortions, they are my friends and i am here to support them because i love them.

    friends have often done things that i do not agree with, however they are my friends, real friendship does not judge.


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    i am exactly the same as above poster, parents were not married when i came along, in fact i know my father was absolutely in favour of abortion. it didnt happen and here i am, however i dont think any less of my parents for thinking about their options and couldnt in anyway blame them if they had have gone through with it ( obviously i wouldnt be here, but you know what i mean!)

    i have 2 very close friends who became pregnant when young and single, neither father wanted anything to do with the child, although one did have a change of heart when the child was born! but they both still had to do it alone for a long number of years.

    both these girls, many years later, found themselves with unwanted pregnancies ( both in loving relationships, circumstances just were not right for them for different reasons )

    so they had abortions. i travelled with one of them because their partner culd not go, the other went with their partner. from the day they told me they were pregnant, to the day they said they were terminating the pregnancies, to today, when they still want to talk about it, i have never, never, ever judged them on their choice.

    they are my friends, always were, always will be, we have our little disagrrements occassionally, different opinions on things but i would NEVER EVER judge them for going through a termination.
    even if i never knew how tough it was for a woman to go through that without the added trauma of travelling! i would never judge.

    on a slightly side note, i dont believe in this argument of 'if a woman was raped/sexually abused then she should be entitlted to an abortion'

    if you disagree with it because you think it isnt right, than how does the fact that a child is the product of rape make it ok?
    you either agree it should be a womans choice or you dont, anything else is just a judgement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Mollikins


    I'm sorry if this is OT, but this is just wrong. The survival rates for 23 weeks is very low, and 22 weeks, I think there has been one documented case of a child surviving and not having severe health problems. +90% of babies were just not meant to survive outside of the womb at 24 weeks, and even those that do require intensive medical intervention.

    To tatabubbly's point, one of my best friends is a pediatrician, and she noted that the neonatal intensive care unit was the biggest money-spinner in the children's hospital she worked at (which is one of the best in the U.S.) because a) the cost of keeping preemies alive is astronomical, and b) those kids will be back in the hospital repeatedly during their childhoods.

    As for abortion, I don't think it is anyone else's business: it is between a woman, her family (if the situation permits), and her doctor. I don't judge other people for having them because I am not the one who has to live with the consequences.
    The survival rates may be very low but as I’ve already pointed out there has been and there continues to be huge advancements in neonatal medicine. The 2 babies I referred to in the post you quoted have not had any health problems apart from minor sight problems and breathing problems, which is quite common and to be expected as the lungs only develop in the last few weeks of pregnancy.

    Back in 1990, Britain reduced the abortion limit from 28 weeks to 24 weeks because of advancements in technology. A lot of progress has been made in those 22 years since that change in the law and since so many babies are now surviving being born so premature I really think that it’s time they change the limit again.

    Honestly, the cost of caring for a premature baby shouldn’t even come into the equation. Once a baby takes a single breath outside of the womb they are classed as a human and are afforded the same rights as you or I, rights which include the right to any necessary medical treatment. Regarding your second point, one could argue that lots of full-term babies are born with conditions that require frequent hospitalisation.

    I know that this post probably reads as though I’m pro-life. I’m not. I’m somewhere between pro-life and pro-choice and I only want what’s best for both parties. I’m not trying to take away any woman’s right to have an abortion at all but if babies are being born earlier and surviving then it’s only just and humane that the limit is changed.

    Anyway this is getting too off topic. Apologies hattoncracker.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    tumblr_lxnsi3n23R1qg9eupo1_400.jpg

    Did RP support it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Mollikins wrote: »
    The survival rates may be very low but as I’ve already pointed out there has been and there continues to be huge advancements in neonatal medicine. The 2 babies I referred to in the post you quoted have not had any health problems apart from minor sight problems and breathing problems, which is quite common and to be expected as the lungs only develop in the last few weeks of pregnancy.

    Back in 1990, Britain reduced the abortion limit from 28 weeks to 24 weeks because of advancements in technology. A lot of progress has been made in those 22 years since that change in the law and since so many babies are now surviving being born so premature I really think that it’s time they change the limit again.

    Honestly, the cost of caring for a premature baby shouldn’t even come into the equation. Once a baby takes a single breath outside of the womb they are classed as a human and are afforded the same rights as you or I, rights which include the right to any necessary medical treatment. Regarding your second point, one could argue that lots of full-term babies are born with conditions that require frequent hospitalisation.

    I know that this post probably reads as though I’m pro-life. I’m not. I’m somewhere between pro-life and pro-choice and I only want what’s best for both parties. I’m not trying to take away any woman’s right to have an abortion at all but if babies are being born earlier and surviving then it’s only just and humane that the limit is changed.

    Anyway this is getting too off topic. Apologies hattoncracker.

    They have re-evaluated changing the limit, but decided to keep the bar at 24 weeks, because medical advances don't change the mortality rate; there is a less than 10% survival rate for babies born between 22 and 24 weeks:
    Despite increasing efforts by doctors and advances in medicine, survival rates for babies born before the existing 24 week limit have not changed since the 1990s, a study has found.
    The findings clash with previous research from one hospital in London which suggested that 40 per cent of babies born at 23 weeks survived.
    That was used in evidence to MPs considering whether the abortion time limit should be lowered.
    The latest study however, published in the journal Archives of Disease in Childhood, suggests survival rates are much lower than 40 per cent for very premature babies - and are not improving.
    The experts analysed infant deaths among 229 babies born alive at 22 or 23 weeks in Newcastle from 1993 to 2007.
    The length of time the babies lived gradually increased over that time - from 11 hours to 3.7 days - reflecting lengthier and more active treatment such as resuscitation and surgery.
    However survival rates did not. In total, only 19 survived.
    Six survived between 1993 and 1997; six survived between 1997 and 2002; and seven survived between 2003 and 2007.

    Ultimately this boils down to choice. Parents have the choice to ask doctors to resuscitate a 23 week old preemie, but I don't think abortion should be cut off as a choice at this stage, especially since most studies suggest that this late in the game, it is usually a choice made out of duress. I also wouldn't judge a friend who chose not to resuscitate at this point - the odds are so stacked against viability.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    amacachi wrote: »
    Did RP support it?

    He supports states making their own abortion laws and according to his website, he would support passing a law defining life as beginning as conception. This would provide the legal cover for states to define abortion as murder.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    i used to be pro choice until i had an abortion...

    my experience was horrible, the first time i went over my appt was cancelled and had to travel back ten days later... mine was at ten weeks! i was 30 a week later and flew to nyc for my bday still in pain, when i came home i went to the rotunda! part of my pregancy was still there so i had to have anti botics for 7 days and another 'abortion'!! knowing part of it was still there was truly mentally torturing for me, there is something wrong with my womb now


    no1 judges me more than i judge myself, i am a single mother already. i had my reasons but yet the guilt is sometimes unbearable and will carry with me forever prob


    would i do it again, no i wouldnt... but thats my choice!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭cynder


    I was shocked when my mother told me she had an abortion at 19, that her mother and older sister forced her to and told my mothers dad she miscarried. She was single and the fella was a bit of a rogue. She told me she didn't regret the decision because she brainwashed herself into believing it was the right thing.

    She told me this when i was 19 and pregnant, by on off boyfriend and we were off at that point, but i told her there was no way i would consider it, she then told me that if i kept it and it was brain damaged or had another other problems that she would take care of it so i could live my life, i also declined the offer.

    I am now married to the babies dad and she is a 12 year old who is full of life, love and adventure. She is starting secondary school in September and is very beautiful. Im Lucky...so lucky. My daughter is my parents only female granchild, thankfully i didnt take up the offer of my mother being ok with it, if i wanted her aborted. My mother loves my daughter and spoils her rotten.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    Mollikins wrote: »
    I'm sorry if this is OT, but this is just wrong. The survival rates for 23 weeks is very low, and 22 weeks, I think there has been one documented case of a child surviving and not having severe health problems. +90% of babies were just not meant to survive outside of the womb at 24 weeks, and even those that do require intensive medical intervention.

    To tatabubbly's point, one of my best friends is a pediatrician, and she noted that the neonatal intensive care unit was the biggest money-spinner in the children's hospital she worked at (which is one of the best in the U.S.) because a) the cost of keeping preemies alive is astronomical, and b) those kids will be back in the hospital repeatedly during their childhoods.

    As for abortion, I don't think it is anyone else's business: it is between a woman, her family (if the situation permits), and her doctor. I don't judge other people for having them because I am not the one who has to live with the consequences.
    The survival rates may be very low but as I’ve already pointed out there has been and there continues to be huge advancements in neonatal medicine. The 2 babies I referred to in the post you quoted have not had any health problems apart from minor sight problems and breathing problems, which is quite common and to be expected as the lungs only develop in the last few weeks of pregnancy.

    Back in 1990, Britain reduced the abortion limit from 28 weeks to 24 weeks because of advancements in technology. A lot of progress has been made in those 22 years since that change in the law and since so many babies are now surviving being born so premature I really think that it’s time they change the limit again.

    Honestly, the cost of caring for a premature baby shouldn’t even come into the equation. Once a baby takes a single breath outside of the womb they are classed as a human and are afforded the same rights as you or I, rights which include the right to any necessary medical treatment. Regarding your second point, one could argue that lots of full-term babies are born with conditions that require frequent hospitalisation.

    I know that this post probably reads as though I’m pro-life. I’m not. I’m somewhere between pro-life and pro-choice and I only want what’s best for both parties. I’m not trying to take away any woman’s right to have an abortion at all but if babies are being born earlier and surviving then it’s only just and humane that the limit is changed.

    Anyway this is getting too off topic. Apologies hattoncracker.
    My little sister was born at 26 weeks she lived till she was 6 months, her lungs were not developed, she had a bleed on the brain 3 at 3 weeks in which they had to wait til she was 3 pound to get a shunt in, what she went through in 6 months was unreal, if she was born at 30 weeks she would be here but she is not, people may go on about how medicine is more advance but in reality for a baby to survive your not going to replicate a womb with an incubator. For the record I'm pro choice I've had a couple of friends who had abortions I've never judged them they had valid reasons and I feel for the women who have talked openly about their experiences here It takes guts,


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭cynder


    gcgirl wrote: »
    For the record I'm pro choice I've had a couple of friends who had abortions I've never judged them they had valid reasons and I feel for the women who have talked openly about their experiences here It takes guts,

    Just out of curiosity what is 'a valid reason'?

    Is pro choice not reason enough.....

    *Suppose it depends on an individuals perception on what a VALID REASON is. Whats a valid reason for one, is not a valid reason for another.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Feathers


    Now I'm respectful of all choices in life, but I really don't understand how other people can't be.

    Why is it the mere mention of abortion ends with some people just totally loosing it? I know it's a sensitive subject, and if you don't agree with it then fine.

    But if people believe that life begins at conception & also believe that deliberately ending another human life is always wrong, it seems straightforward that they would be very against abortion?

    I'd also presume these people would be against the death-penalty/euthanasia as well. I think people are more vocal about it because of the innocence of the child & because also it comes up more often in discussion too.

    Not saying that you should believe life begins at conception. Also, you could believe that life begins are conception but there are cases where it's OK or even humane to end life.

    But otherwise, would it not be strange if you condoned abortion?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Feathers wrote: »
    But if people believe that life begins at conception & also believe that deliberately ending another human life is always wrong, it seems straightforward that they would be very against abortion?

    If the belive that then they are anti contraception.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Sharrow wrote: »
    If the belive that then they are anti contraception.

    Howso? Contraception by definition prevents conception no?

    EDIT: Ha, learn something new every day, I thought conception meant implantation rather than fertilisation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭cynder


    Feathers wrote: »
    But if people believe that life begins at conception & also believe that deliberately ending another human life is always wrong, it seems straightforward that they would be very against abortion?

    I'd also presume these people would be against the death-penalty/euthanasia as well. I think people are more vocal about it because of the innocence of the child & because also it comes up more often in discussion too.

    Not saying that you should believe life begins at conception. Also, you could believe that life begins are conception but there are cases where it's OK or even humane to end life.

    But otherwise, would it not be strange if you condoned abortion?


    I disagree with you there,


    I would be against abortion but not euthanasia or the death penalty. I believe a baby has a right to life, I think that a person who is terminally Ill or has a poor quality of life should have the choice to end their life or if they are unable to that they should be euthinsised if that is their wish, ( a baby doesnt get the option) as for the death penalty, if there are witnesses to a a murder or murders and strong DNA evidence than I'm for the death penalty ( the baby hasn't murdered anyone).

    Just my view and the reasons why I hold that view.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Feathers


    amacachi wrote: »
    Sharrow wrote: »
    If the belive that then they are anti contraception.

    Howso? Contraception by definition prevents conception no?

    Exactly, unless you're counting something like the morning-after pill, in which case, yes - I would presume you either support both or neither.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Feathers


    Feathers wrote: »
    But if people believe that life begins at conception & also believe that deliberately ending another human life is always wrong, it seems straightforward that they would be very against abortion?

    I'd also presume these people would be against the death-penalty/euthanasia as well. I think people are more vocal about it because of the innocence of the child & because also it comes up more often in discussion too.

    Not saying that you should believe life begins at conception. Also, you could believe that life begins are conception but there are cases where it's OK or even humane to end life.

    But otherwise, would it not be strange if you condoned abortion?


    I disagree with you there,


    I would be against abortion but not euthanasia or the death penalty. I believe a baby has a right to life, I think that a person who is terminally Ill or has a poor quality of life should have the choice to end their life or if they are unable to that they should be euthinsised if that is their wish, ( a baby doesnt get the option) as for the death penalty, if there are witnesses to a a murder or murders and strong DNA evidence than I'm for the death penalty ( the baby hasn't murdered anyone).

    Just my view and the reasons why I hold that view.

    sure, sorry didn't mean to over simplify it - was more of a one-sided example I guess. Yeah euthanasia is a different ballgame from the point of view that it's the.person themselves making the decision.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Feathers wrote: »
    Exactly, unless you're counting something like the morning-after pill, in which case, yes - I would presume you either support both or neither.

    Well based on my erroneous post that makes no sense. If life beginning at conception is the reason to oppose abortion then preventing conception is perfectly in line with that.


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