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State spending €3million on communion rituals

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    so they shouldn't get an extra bit during the most financially stressful period of the year?
    No, they should either learn to budget or do without the luxuries.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    don't forget there are christmas 'bonuses' handed out to a *hell* of a lot more people than qualify for this payment, and i've yet to hear anyone begrudging that.

    You know that has stopped. And rightfully so. I'm not the type to suggest we go AH style food stamps on people but one has to sometime learn that your situation does not allow for some things.

    Anyway should this not be more in the territory of the likes of SVP than the state? Surely old communion outfits get donated to charity.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,978 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    No, they should either learn to budget or do without the luxuries.
    http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-being-poor/
    written from an american perspective, but a lot of it applies here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-being-poor/
    written from an american perspective, but a lot of it applies here.

    If things are that bad for them I suggest they do without communion dresses and other luxuries.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    No, they should either learn to budget or do without the luxuries.

    The system makes it impossible for people one low income to budget.

    For a start the gas and electricity bills are bimonthly whilst the individuals get paid weekly. Then we have the schools, these are the biggest offended against the family of all time.

    Typically one will get a list of books required so off they go and make arrangements for a short term loan or other social welfare special payment [whatever] ~ grands so far.

    But as soon as the children arrive at school they are given demand notices for cleaning products the first week, paper and disposables the next week. Invariably they want a journal, another book, a different ruler, brown shoes, gym cloths, bus and tours hire, and the school expect this money immediately ~ it's an unbelievable strain TBH and they just keep throwing new items at you all year long ~

    It's too simplistic to expect low paid/social welfare to be able to budget, in fairness like.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,978 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    what if they're in a school which does not enforce a uniform-only policy during communion? i'd feel a bit heartless telling my kid they're going to be the one in their school uniform when everyone else is in a dress.

    like i said, the solution to this problem is the schools addressing that issue. until they do, i'm not going to begrudge someone being given €150 or whatever to let their kid dress up and bring them out for a meal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    what if they're in a school which does not enforce a uniform-only policy during communion? i'd feel a bit heartless telling my kid they're going to be the one in their school uniform when everyone else is in a dress.
    The solution there is they save up over the course a year and get something which can be worn more than once or else they get one second hand or they borrow one. Failing that they do without until such time as they can afford it.
    like i said, the solution to this problem is the schools addressing that issue. until they do, i'm not going to begrudge someone being given €150 or whatever to let their kid dress up and bring them out for a meal.
    fs. a meal are you serious !


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,978 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    You know that has stopped. And rightfully so. I'm not the type to suggest we go AH style food stamps on people but one has to sometime learn that your situation does not allow for some things.
    'some things' including giving your kids presents on christmas day?
    have i unwittingly walked into a young fine gael meeting?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    'some things' including giving your kids presents on christmas day?
    have i unwittingly walked into a young fine gael meeting?

    Live within your means, hardly revolutionary now is it.

    Then again perhaps rather than the state paying they could hit charities, I've no objects to that.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,978 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    fs. a meal are you serious !
    yes, i'm serious.

    i was beginning to wonder the same about other posters in this thread, the ones denying that there may be a seasonal variation in financial demands on low income families.

    i know people who have been made redundant, in houses which are now not worth what they paid for them, which means they can't remove themselves from that particular situation. these people would be quite financially sensible, and are not only not able to save, but are eating into their savings.
    these would be people who would be more financially canny than a lot of people on low incomes.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    They don't need financial aid.
    They need cop on.

    http://www.adverts.ie/for-sale/q_communion+dress/sortby_price-asc


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    'some things' including giving your kids presents on christmas day?

    Of course not. But 2 euro a week put aside (out of the chidrens allowance for example) can buy a €100 present. My family were never well to do but I never went without a present even if I found out after that they had to borrow from their own family at times. I may not always have got what I was after but again that's life.
    You have to live within your means. I wish it wasn't true trust me but it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Folks,

    I would like to thank you all who wrote to Brendan Howlin and Joan Burton on this topic.
    This is a sucessful outcome regardless of whether of not our correspondence was considered.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/struggling-families-communion-payment-slashed-182303.html


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,553 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    This really is exceptional news.

    And I say this as a taxpayer, more so than an atheist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Dades wrote: »
    This really is exceptional news.

    And I say this as a taxpayer, more so than an atheist.

    I say that exclusively as a taxpayer. Hopefully the remaining funding will go to people who actually need it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Only seeing the thread for the first time now. Good to see the payments have been reduced but I still think it's a bit much considering many of these children will more than likely be receiving cards on their ''big day'' stuffed with cash.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    will more than likely be receiving cards on their ''big day'' stuffed with cash.

    Yes, an traditionally, that money was to go towards the dresses, suits etc,


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    gbee wrote: »
    Yes, an traditionally, that money was to go towards the dresses, suits etc,
    Not so far as I experienced it, or recall it - straight into the pocket, at the speed of sound!


  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭sephir0th


    Do people of other religions qualify for these grants too?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    The icing on the cake is that Mary Lou is disgusted with it :D


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,978 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i wouldn't have expected that. sinn fein is a declared secular party, isn't it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,136 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    i wouldn't have expected that. sinn fein is a declared secular party, isn't it?

    Mary Lou is a declared "I oppose every decision made by everyone" whinger though


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    i wouldn't have expected that. sinn fein is a declared secular party, isn't it?

    Well, I saw her shopping for communion outfits in Debenhams about three weeks ago...no joke.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭Liamario


    I understand that Mary Lou McDonald too a swipe at Eamon Gilmore's non-belief.... anyone know what she said?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4 keepritephysio


    MrPudding wrote: »
    To be honest I think this is a slightly less evil than some of the other stuff I have heard. A few years a go there was a nun on NewsTalk 106, the George Hook programme I think, who worked in an organisation that provided help and support for prostitutes. Apparently the number of working prostitutes in the state massively increases during the first communion period as women go on the game temporarily to help gathering the money required. Pretty disgusting.

    This nun, can’t remember her name, this was years ago, said it was up to the parish priest to decide what was worn. She called for them to declare school uniforms should be worn. For some reason this does not seem to be something that has caught on…

    MrP
    What a sensible idea! The Church could make a rule tomorrow that only a SIMPLE robe worn over clothes would be acceptable for First Holy Communion. This could be provided by the schools to be used year after year. All the children would look the same and could concentrate on the ceremony rather than their appearance. How could that be wrong?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭Liamario


    Apparently she said something on the lines of- whatever your religious views are, these children deserved to be dressed appropriately...

    Now if we were talking about muslim children or a religious fate where children are required to wear diamonds as part of a ceremony; would she feel as strong about it?!?!

    (RHETORICAL QUESTION)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    How could that be wrong?

    It's awful. It is common now with confirmations and as time passes the children are discarding the roles as soon as they are confirmed and the fashion show begins.

    It doesn't actually stop anything as the glamour is worn underneath.

    Uniforms, you know the child spends enough time in the uniform already. The children are very unhappy for their conformation, and especially when three or more small parishes combine in one church and some are dressed to the nines and others in their school uniform.

    Another side of the uniform is it is almost always brand new too ~ so the expense continues, some children disobey the uniform as they can't afford to buy a new one if there are no more sibling to pass it down to.

    For a girl especially, the dressing up is a major part, girls love the white dress and mums just adore their boys in jackets and long trousers. It's a special day and while people may need assistance, the extra SW payments should be stopped.

    One of my own children was dressed by the school and another IR£70 jacket [1987] was purchased by a God Parent and that went on to dress three more boys in time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    what if they're in a school which does not enforce a uniform-only policy during communion? i'd feel a bit heartless telling my kid they're going to be the one in their school uniform when everyone else is in a dress.
    How about telling them that they can have a dress if they go to Mass every Sunday the rest of their lives, attend regular confession, study the Bible and Catholic doctrine and obey all Catholic social and moral teaching. That'd sort out the wheat from the chaff (and as our everso kind and merciful god tells us, "His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.")
    MrPudding wrote: »
    To be honest I think this is a slightly less evil than some of the other stuff I have heard. A few years a go there was a nun on NewsTalk 106, the George Hook programme I think, who worked in an organisation that provided help and support for prostitutes. Apparently the number of working prostitutes in the state massively increases during the first communion period as women go on the game temporarily to help gathering the money required. Pretty disgusting.

    That sounds like nonsense to me - there'd be no increase in demand in the same period, so I don't see why there would be a huge increase in supply.


  • Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭Bookworm85


    I nearly fell off my chair today when I heard this!

    when I was unemployed I volunteered in a charity shop in cork, they regularly got donations of communion dresses and other boys clothes (suits, trousers, waistcoats etc) that would have been suitable for the occasion. They we're all for sale for at least 1/3 of the going rate (well the dresses were anyway) and they hardly ever shifted.

    However, just across the street is a well known shop that sells communion wear and people were practically queuing out the door!

    Anyway, classing this as an "exceptional need" is beggars belief! An exceptional need is when you can't pay for medicine or put food on the table ffs. Now I know times are tough, and I spent enough time on the dole to know how hard it can be to make ends meet. I managed to go to 3 weddings last year while unemployed, and I did it by managing my money, yes I had cut back (even further) on spending, but I managed. There were 2 other weddings that year that I would have loved to go to, but the money wasn't there so I didn't go!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    It's a terrible decision that they reviewed this, and decided to keep it even in a restricted form. Typical political fudge though.

    The State should under no circumstances whatsoever subsidise religious practise. End of.

    If this is 'austerity' I have no idea what people would call the society my parents grew up in. Or even the one I grew up in, come to think of it...

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



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