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Cardinal Sean Brady aware of abuse in 1975

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    The protectors of child rapists who currently run the RC church decide that the ten commandments are part of their teachings.

    Duh. :rolleyes:


    I think you will find they come from the bible and from God to Moses and that the old testament is a part of Christianity. The new testament didn't make the old testament disappear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Min wrote: »
    I think you will find humans are the people who do the crimes, therefore human failing. It is not our cats or dogs that are failing us by abusing us.

    My point was it's a lot more than just a failing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    My point was it's a lot more than just a failing.

    But a crime is a failing.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    From todays Times (England)
    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/News/article1032698.ece#standard-comments

    A few excerpts:
    Cardinal Seán Brady is being sued by a man who was sexually abused by Fr Brendan Smyth while he attended a school where Brady was teaching. The abuse is alleged to have happened after Brady was involved in secret canonical inquiries in 1975, in which the cardinal deemed accounts given by two teenage boys of abuse to be “credible”.
    ...a spokesman for Brady, who is the archbishop of Armagh and primate of all-Ireland, said he “will be defending any allegation of negligence”.

    He would!
    The High Court case was initiated after Brady’s role in the canonical inquiry was revealed two years ago. Brady is being sued for personal negligence in three sets of proceedings. Asked if any of the plaintiffs in those cases were children identified by Boland in the inquiry 37 years ago, Brady’s spokesman said: “The diocese has received claims on behalf of people who appear to be similarly named.”

    So two of the names people that was on a list given to him, started to sue him two years ago.
    This then backs up the victim on the BBC programme that stated such a list existed and that they were abused.

    Then there is this latest shocker!
    Oliver McShane, a former Dominican priest who attended the church inquiry in Dundalk, has told The Sunday Times that church officials told gardai in 1991 that no such inquiry had taken place.

    “In 1991, gardai in Dundalk asked the London Metropolitan police’s child protection unit to take a statement from me,” said McShane, who has now left the priesthood and lives abroad. “I told them about the inquiry as part of my statement.

    The detective heading the inquiry in Dundalk rang me a couple of months later saying the church was denying the inquiry happened. I said I would come over to Ireland and swear on the Bible it did,” said McShane, who was the priest in whom Boland confided about Smyth’s abuse and who accompanied the boy when he informed his parents about what he had suffered.

    So now it emerges that the church also openly lied to the police!

    There you have it.
    An absolute no moral, two faced org that has no moral authority in Ireland any more to preach to us - when in fact they are just as bad, if not worse!

    No wonder they are backing Brady now. Birds of a feather are sticking together!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭paddyzk


    Scum.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 43,274 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Wonder what Fr, D'Arcy will say about this................oh wait.

    Weren't long acting with him when it suited.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,176 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    It's shocking that this guy still holds his position.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    Send the lot of them back to Rome and sell off all their wealth and property in the country.

    That would go a long way to paying off the debts the country has and at long last the church could be seen doing some real good before we kick them out the door.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,115 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    It's shocking that this guy still holds his position.

    He will resign soon I believe. The pressure is on. He is in charge of an organisation which is seeing it's numbers in decline worldwide, it's mass attendances decline and it's authority being challenged because of incidents like this.
    Had they came out and held their hands up and said we are doing our best to rid ourselves of abusive priests then they would have probably remained intact. But they chose to deny, cover-up and hide under the protection of Cannon Law.
    By doing this they have let down the good priests, bishops etc and indeed their flock. Pride comes before a fall.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,176 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    He should be resigned years ago, he'll try and hold out I'd imagine.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    He will resign soon I believe. The pressure is on. He is in charge of an organisation which is seeing it's numbers in decline worldwide, it's mass attendances decline and it's authority being challenged because of incidents like this.
    Had they came out and held their hands up and said we are doing our best to rid ourselves of abusive priests then they would have probably remained intact. But they chose to deny, cover-up and hide under the protection of Cannon Law.
    By doing this they have let down the good priests, bishops etc and indeed their flock. Pride comes before a fall.
    What very few good ones can head out to Africa and do good out there.

    This country has to move beyond the superstitious nonsense they have been peddling for so long.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,042 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    He should be resigned years ago, he'll try and hold out I'd imagine.

    There's a good chance that he has considered resigning already, but it's up to that lizard in the Vatican to decide whether or not to accept it.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0503/1224315512548.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,176 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    There's a good chance that he has considered resigning already, but it's up to that lizard in the Vatican to decide whether or not to accept it.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0503/1224315512548.html

    They're afraid pressure will come on guys higher up the chain I'd imagine.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    He will resign soon I believe...

    Mark my words, they will PR spin it.

    He will leave the office he holds after some time for "reflection" or some other drawn up PR excuse.

    Just like a very recent Chinese dissident who might be allowed leave China for "study" (I hope he gets his wife and kid out too) and that reason being spun for the masses, the Rome Org will dream up some light excuse genuine reason for he stepping away - not down they will hope not to make it look like - from the power position he no longer has the moral right to hold.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,115 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Biggins wrote: »
    Mark my words, they will PR spin it.

    He will leave the office he holds after some time for "reflection" or some other drawn up PR excuse.

    Just like a very recent Chinese dissident who might be allowed leave China for "study" (I hope he gets his wife and kid out too) and that reason being spun for the masses, the Rome Org will dream up some light excuse genuine reason for he stepping away - not down they will hope not to make it look like - from the power position he no longer has the moral right to hold.

    At the moment Brady is actively putting in place Child Protection regulations for the Catholic Church. No expense spared. Maybe his conscience is at him or maybe he actually feels that he did his best or what was required of him back in 1975.
    The stable door was left open and the horse has bolted it seems. It won't save him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    At the moment Brady is actively putting in place Child Protection regulations for the Catholic Church. No expense spared. Maybe his conscience is at him or maybe he actually feels that he did his best or what was required of him back in 1975.
    The stable door was left open and the horse has bolted it seems. It won't save him.

    Maybe he could walk the full length of the Camino barefoot and in rags with a sign around his neck - 'Cardinal of Lies'

    SD


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    What gets me is that brady said he fufilled his role and did all that was required of him but a 14 year old boy had the courage and the morality to try and warn the other parents. He knew what to so and the boy who is now an adult told the other victims of brady that he tried to save him.

    He didnt even think to warn other parents about smyth. Imagine if you knew that someone molested kids and you knew they were going to be in contact with more children and you did nothing?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    He will resign soon I believe. The pressure is on. He is in charge of an organisation which is seeing it's numbers in decline worldwide, it's mass attendances decline and it's authority being challenged because of incidents like this.
    Had they came out and held their hands up and said we are doing our best to rid ourselves of abusive priests then they would have probably remained intact. But they chose to deny, cover-up and hide under the protection of Cannon Law.
    By doing this they have let down the good priests, bishops etc and indeed their flock. Pride comes before a fall.
    Canon Law is set in place to (supposedly) be the law guiding the ultimate authority of the Catholic Church. Brady followed it to the letter and yet it allowed abuse to continue. If they allow Brady to resign, it's effectively an admission on the Churches part that Canon Law is flawed/incorrect and thus their own authority (moral and otherwise) is undermined.

    Given that, I wouldn't underestimate their willingness to place the protection of their own authority above actually choosing the moral choice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    Blowfish wrote: »
    Canon Law is set in place to (supposedly) be the law guiding the ultimate authority of the Catholic Church. Brady followed it to the letter and yet it allowed abuse to continue. If they allow Brady to resign, it's effectively an admission on the Churches part that Canon Law is flawed/incorrect and thus their own authority (moral and otherwise) is undermined.

    Given that, I wouldn't underestimate their willingness to place the protection of their own authority above actually choosing the moral choice.

    Canon Law is wholly and completely irrelevant. When will the RC Church accept this? The only place it has relevance is within the bounds of the Vatican City State - nowhere else!

    SD


  • Administrators Posts: 53,127 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    At the end of the day, Brady gave priority to the internal structure and protection of the Catholic Church's image over the protection of young children he knew were being abused.

    No matter how they try to spin it, it's all irrelevant. By his own admission he is guilty.

    Him resigning does not go far enough.

    There really is no way to defend the indefensible. It's absolutely sick that certain quarters are trying to excuse what he has done purely because it's the church.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭Mr.Wemmick


    I wonder if the Church does not want Brady forced out under pressure.
    In his position as Cardinal, primate of all Ireland and seeing as he was a canon lawyer for years, it is quite possible that he has documentation of other reports or correspondence received over the years regarding Pedophile priests dating back years.. and being privy to this info, he must be in a very powerful position. Hence why the vatican are treated him so gently, nothing else makes sense. Brady looks very petulant going by the photos and film shots seen of him recently - like a child, ready to explode.

    Not suprising then if the Irish Catholic Church has a lot of paper work, correspondence and written proof, Brady is being mollycoddled by the Vatican.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Min wrote: »
    I think you will find they come from the bible and from God to Moses and that the old testament is a part of Christianity. The new testament didn't make the old testament disappear.

    There was tons of crap in the bible. The RC church cut a huge amount of it out and decided what crap would be left in.

    They (the protectors of child rapists) decide what the teachings are.

    Wakey, wakey.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Imagine if you knew that someone molested kids and you knew they were going to be in contact with more children and you did nothing?

    or just transfered him to another parish or the missions....and got little boy victims to swear on the bible not to tell anyone except certain priests. Sick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,115 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    true wrote: »
    or just transfered him to another parish or the missions....and got little boy victims to swear on the bible not to tell anyone except certain priests. Sick.

    I am beginning to wonder if they believe in God at all or is it just a convenient thing for them. Being religious is supposed to be about compassion but there was none shown to the victims or their parents.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    I am beginning to wonder if they believe in God at all or is it just a convenient thing for them. Being religious is supposed to be about compassion but there was none shown to the victims or their parents.

    They believe in the power they have from the positions they hold within that corrupt, criminal organisation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,115 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    They believe in the power they have from the positions they hold within that corrupt, criminal organisation.

    But there are many many good people in that organisation too. It's unfortunate for them as they now become victims of their faith through no fault of their own. The power is at the top and self preservation is of the utmost importance to them because they love that power.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    They believe in the power they have from the positions they hold within that corrupt, criminal organisation.

    They had amazing arrogance not just corrupting children but then transfering Priests in question sideways to another parish or to the missions, and covering up the abuse / not allowing it to be told to even the parents.


  • Administrators Posts: 53,127 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17981898

    "Bishop Donal McKeown criticises politicians over Cardinal Brady response"

    Just how detached from reality are this lot? Trying to paint Brady as some sort of victim?!

    You couldn't make it up. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭Pushtrak


    http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/2012/05/07/sex-abuse-documentary-threatens-to-topple-head-of-irelands-catholic-church/
    Rome, of course, has an agenda. The 50th annual International Eucharistic Congress takes place in Ireland from June 10-17. Held every four years, it’s a massive gathering of clergy and laity meant to reaffirm the role of Catholicism in the world. Should Brady bow to pressure, it would cast a huge shadow over the event. Furthermore, senior clergy in other parts of the world face similar calls to resign. If Brady falls, it might spark a chain reaction of forced resignations that would embarrass the church. Finally, the Vatican wants to protect its role as an institution above the state. It cannot risk the appearance of kowtowing to politicians or the media.

    Boland, the abuse victim who features prominently in the BBC documentary, now lives in London. Speaking to the Irish Times, he said he avoids contact with men of the cloth. “I have had such a bad experience with priests that I can’t talk to any of them. I know there are some good ones, but I can’t tell who is good and who is not good.” What he does know, however, is that the hierarchy within the church should never dictate doing what’s right. He rejects Brady’s defense that the church lacked guidelines for reporting abuse to civil authorities and parents. “I was only 14 years of age,” he said. “I knew it was wrong.”


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭Pushtrak


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0507/1224315687835.html
    There were mixed views among the faithful outside the cathedral. Some would not offer any comments apart from criticising the media for covering the issue. Others felt he had failed children who were abused by paedophile priest Brendan Smyth, while others again felt fault lay not with him but with superiors to whom he reported the abuse in 1975.
    An elderly lady leaving the cathedral felt that Cardinal Brady should remain as primate. “I don’t think it was his fault. He did what he was asked to do and reported all that information to his bishop. It was the bishop’s fault.” She added: “I like the man; he is a good, humble man.”

    Another elderly woman said simply that she felt sorry for Cardinal Brady. “I am sure he is suffering over all this. I pray for him every day.”

    Alan Henry, a native of Letterkenny, Co Donegal but living in Armagh for the past 10 years said Cardinal Brady should have said something to the parents and to the police in 1975. “I have nothing against the fellow. In fact I have never even spoken to the man but I think he should offer to stand down.”

    A middle-aged man said Cardinal Brady had made a “bad mistake” in how he handled the information that Smyth was abusing boys and girls. “He should have gone to the authorities at the time.” But he too said he felt sorry for the Cardinal. “He should never have accepted the job of primate.”


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