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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭bop1977


    Right let's break this 160 million euro tax take goal down:

    1.6 million houses
    minus all the exempt council houses
    minus all the ghost estate/ unfinished housing estates
    minus those who won't register

    When you take all these houses out say for arguments sake you are left with 500,000 houses from which they still need to raise 160 million this year and next year and the year after and soon you can clearly see the need for the 500,000 suckers to increase their contributions to completely unsustainable levels.

    this is a bullsh1t tax and i for one wont be paying it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    My house is not finished yet, so i can't get a completion cert, so i won't be paying this stealth tax to keep the so called elite in this country bailed out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭MaxyJazz


    Was just talking to my neighbours and none are going to pay...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    galwayrush wrote: »
    My house is not finished yet, so i can't get a completion cert, so i won't be paying this stealth tax to keep the so called elite in this country bailed out.

    Take your time finishing it! ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Biggins wrote: »
    Take your time finishing it! ;)

    I'll be too broke to finish it for a long time....;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭jojo86


    Luckily I don't own a house so this tax does not effect me. However, I think it's disgusting that I grew up watching my parents struggle to pay a mortgage on their small home so that their children could have a roof over their head, my family felt no reward from the supposed "boom"-no holidays, no fancy clothes, you were happy with having food in your stomach and a roof over your head. And they worked every day and night of their lives, and raised us, put us through college. Did their best and as far as I am concerned deserve a break.
    Now am I expected to sit back and accept that it's ok that after years of struggling to get to a position where my parents can own their home now they have to pay 100 quid to bail out the scum that blew it all??!!
    No way is this just, if the tax covered car tax,bins etc like in other countries maybe... but the way it is here no. I pay tax for a car to drive on crap roads I then pay to fail an NCT due to these crappy roads ruining suspension etc, I've been on a hospital waiting list for 2years for a condition. What they hell are we getting in return to handing out our tax money??! Sweet f all.
    And all the suits who got us in this position are as rich as they ever were, they have plenty they never go without. Its a joke, screw the tax, screw the fat cats. I am disgusted at what this country has become. I hope enough people have the courage to stand together against this. And screw all those who turn their nose up at those who say they can't afford it, pretentious is what you are. And I know that those who judge people who argue against paying it are probably driving nice new cars, in nice big houses and lived it up in the supposed "good times".
    And now they are suggesting using Esb and other utility bills to get people's information...Surely this is a breach of some form of privacy law?!


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭celticcrash


    dvpower wrote: »
    That figure was for people who paid at council offices and doesn't take into account people who paid online.

    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local/less-than-2-of-limerick-householders-have-paid-controversial-household-charge-1-3605302#



    Sorry to burst you bubble.

    No need to be sorry, you didn't burst my bubble.
    He said a few more paid by credit card and internet.
    Please dont tell me that its gone up to
    2%
    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    mikom wrote: »
    * Awaits next budget multiplication*

    Yeh, lets all stop paying tax, just like the Greeks. That'll show those IMF people. We don't want their money or their help, or else we only want free money from them, no conditions.

    This property tax is a condition of the IMF by the way. Bring in a property tax and they release more money to save our sorry asses.

    I wish we had a choice in this, but we don't.

    The IMF owns Ireland now, where have you been the last 2 years? Our government, democratically elected they may have been, are just IMF puppets. That's the reality of the situation.

    And the IMF really don't give a toss what most Irish people think or not. The Property tax is either brought in fully, or they leave and take their money/lifeline with them.

    These are simply facts, which really posters on here aren't going to alter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    massey168 wrote: »
    If everyone took that cowardly lets bend over and collaborate with their corruption approach we'd all be paying €1000 a year next year to fund the golden circle's lifestyle. Perhaps you also have no money worries in paying at that level as well, but many people do.

    So you are not going to pay the tax then? Fine with me.

    Don't come crying on here when they put all those fines and penalties on you.

    My guess is eventually people like you will pay.

    But I hope they fine the bejaysus out of you, just to teach you a lesson.

    Facts which people like you need reminding are:

    1. Practically every country in Europe, well normal country that isn't bankrupt, have property taxes. It's an accepted norm in every normal country (except the wild west that is Ireland).

    2. Without the stamp duty revenues, we have a massive shortfall in day to day taxes.

    3. Pay less tax, and the governent need to borrow more, even economic illiterates should be able to get that.

    4. The property tax was one of the conditions of the IMF bailout. It's not really up for negotiation. They give us money up front and we pay it back longterm. We don't do the property tax right and refuse to pay it, they will refuse to give us the money we need for day to day spending.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I'm not paying.

    I am not the kind of person who is a "rebel" by nature but like a lot of people I am just keeping my head above water right now. I do understand we all have to pull together to get the country out of the hole its in and that I have a responsibility to play a part in that but as a parent I also have a responsibility to my kids and right now I cannot see a way I can pay this money without them having to go without.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    To be honest, I don't think 100 euro as a property tax is excessive.

    I don't know what the rate is in other country, but my guess is its a lot more.

    I know people will use the argument, yeh but they have better services. And the answer is because they pay more tax.

    Solving this countries problems will take many years and a lot of effort, but not paying tax or giving two fingers to the Revenue Commissioners or the IMF is certainly not going to solve the problem.

    In my opinion, the Stamp Duty tax was a far more unfair tax on people than a measly 100 euro property tax. The Stamp Duty tax could often amount to as much as 50,000 on an average property in the boom years, and people didn't even complain.

    My suspicion is its not the amount that grates people, but the principle of not paying more tax, or just not paying a property tax.

    Again, virtually every country in Europe has a property tax, except Ireland. And again, not paying tax is not going to help us.

    My belief is the government and the IMF are committed to this tax, and that means they will impose penalties on every last person.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    100 euros may not be much to you Plasmaguy but there are a lot of folk out there who would take weeks or months to save that up.

    And of course the general consensus seems to be 100 quid today but possible a lot more next year. Other countries generally use that money to provide the services the people need unlike here where the money is likely to go into the big black hole that is the national debt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    Well I paid, so I have nothing to worry about. It's great to have that worry removed to be honest.

    So you paid and all your worries were over? They should put you on an add to encourage payments.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭eth0


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    To be honest, I don't think 100 euro as a property tax is excessive.

    I don't know what the rate is in other country, but my guess is its a lot more.

    I know people will use the argument, yeh but they have better services. And the answer is because they pay more tax.

    Solving this countries problems will take many years and a lot of effort, but not paying tax or giving two fingers to the Revenue Commissioners or the IMF is certainly not going to solve the problem.

    In my opinion, the Stamp Duty tax was a far more unfair tax on people than a measly 100 euro property tax. The Stamp Duty tax could often amount to as much as 50,000 on an average property in the boom years, and people didn't even complain.

    My suspicion is its not the amount that grates people, but the principle of not paying more tax, or just not paying a property tax.

    Again, virtually every country in Europe has a property tax, except Ireland. And again, not paying tax is not going to help us.

    My belief is the government and the IMF are committed to this tax, and that means they will impose penalties on every last person.

    I'm tired of this crap about "services". If I want a service I'll get it myself. I prefer the situation where the council does the absolute minimum, doesn't bother me and I don't bother them. The less interaction with these groups of people the better. Many services can be done without but the councils will insist on providing them to justify the high property tax.

    Stamp duty isn't unfair. Its a one-off payment when you want to move to a new house and you pay it when you can afford the new house, not a constant thing you have to keep paying just because you own a house. Or do you even own the house? If you have to pay property tax really you're just renting it from the government at a low rate.

    Seems like Ireland can never be the only country in Europe with a certain good aspect. I thought it was a great thing we had, that once you own your house you don't have to keep paying for it still to the government. All good things have to come to an end, particularly if we're the only country in Europe with the said good thing. How dare we step out of line


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Izzy Skint


    anyone who has already paid or registered, or intends to pay or register this criminal tax are idiots...full stop!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Izzy Skint


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    Yeh, lets all stop paying tax, just like the Greeks. That'll show those IMF people. We don't want their money or their help, or else we only want free money from them, no conditions.

    This property tax is a condition of the IMF by the way. Bring in a property tax and they release more money to save our sorry asses.

    I wish we had a choice in this, but we don't.

    The IMF owns Ireland now, where have you been the last 2 years? Our government, democratically elected they may have been, are just IMF puppets. That's the reality of the situation.

    And the IMF really don't give a toss what most Irish people think or not. The Property tax is either brought in fully, or they leave and take their money/lifeline with them.

    These are simply facts, which really posters on here aren't going to alter.
    plasmaguy, you are incorrect mate, the IMF could not give a fiddlers where the irish government raise money from, once they raise it is all that matters to them....this tax is wrong on so many levels, starting at the very top it is wrong to bail out banks/bankers/bondholders etc., then as you work your way down it is wrong to tax people who have paid stamp duty, people who are paying mortgages to banks (banks which we all own!)...right down to the level where we argue over who gets what local services and all this bickering just clouds the real injustice of what the Irish gov. are doing to their own people...it is wrong on every level!....one other point, the more money you pump into something in this crap country the more inefficient and useless it becomes...think about it..


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Izzy Skint wrote: »
    anyone who has already paid or registered, or intends to pay or register this criminal tax are idiots...full stop!

    I'll enjoy watching them squirm when they see the €100 double, quadruple and quintiple to €2,000 a year over the next few years. Which is what is going to happen. I'm not paying it myself and if they try to use the ESB or other utilities against me I will just cut them off.

    I live in a rural area 6 miles from the nearest regional road, I have no services at all and am totally self sufficent, bar the ESB.

    There is no rubbish collection locally and I don't protest about it and I take my rubbish to the waste station once a month and recycle most of it for free and bin the rest into bags which go to landfill.

    My water comes from a mountain stream clean, chemical free and unpolluted unlike the councils muck they supply.

    The rural road resembles the surface of the moon, and I pay a thousand or two in Motor tax and fuel, vat etc.

    There is no local guard or barracks, I rely on the shotgun and my own isolation for protection.

    I get nothing from the Government and won't be paying the tax until I see around 50% of the public sector made redundant and the other 50% get 50% pay cuts.

    Laissez faire living for the win!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Izzy Skint


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    So you are not going to pay the tax then? Fine with me.

    Don't come crying on here when they put all those fines and penalties on you.

    My guess is eventually people like you will pay.

    But I hope they fine the bejaysus out of you, just to teach you a lesson.

    Facts which people like you need reminding are:

    1. Practically every country in Europe, well normal country that isn't bankrupt, have property taxes. It's an accepted norm in every normal country (except the wild west that is Ireland).

    2. Without the stamp duty revenues, we have a massive shortfall in day to day taxes.

    3. Pay less tax, and the governent need to borrow more, even economic illiterates should be able to get that.

    4. The property tax was one of the conditions of the IMF bailout. It's not really up for negotiation. They give us money up front and we pay it back longterm. We don't do the property tax right and refuse to pay it, they will refuse to give us the money we need for day to day spending.
    plasmaguy....before the boom years the gov. could manage our borrowing / outgoings...no major problems....then madness for 10 years.... spending went into overdrive....we are now 15 - 20 billion euro overspending every year due to the fall in stamp duty etc.....but wait...any tax reductions we received in the good years have been more than clawed back by the gov, take a look at any workers pay slip from 2/3 years ago and compare it to one now....so why are we still overspending so much, where did all that extra spending go over the years...health, social welfare, public pay + pensions..thats where...we all know these are crippling us, especially the latter two, these must be cut SEVERELY, the gov. know it too but have not got the guts to upset unions or hit the "most vulnerable"...most vulnerable my @rse, I am working and can barely survive on my pay....totally sick of this sh!t country....so I am not paying


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Izzy Skint wrote: »
    plasmaguy....before the boom years the gov. could manage our borrowing / outgoings...no major problems....then madness for 10 years.... spending went into overdrive....we are now 15 - 20 billion euro overspending every year due to the fall in stamp duty etc.....but wait...any tax reductions we received in the good years have been more than clawed back by the gov, take a look at any workers pay slip from 2/3 years ago and compare it to one now....so why are we still overspending so much, where did all that extra spending go over the years...health, social welfare, public pay + pensions..thats where...we all know these are crippling us, especially the latter two, these must be cut SEVERELY, the gov. know it too but have not got the guts to upset unions or hit the "most vulnerable"...most vulnerable my @rse, I am working and can barely survive on my pay....totally sick of this sh!t country....so I am not paying

    Agreed, if we had a proper Government they would just simply say sorry EU and IMF we cannot repay and won't repay, threatening to bring down the EU/Euro ponzi pyramid scheme would quickly get debt writeoffs and we have no choice but to default on the loans and let the market correct itself.

    Ireland is on life support but is brain dead, we must pull the plug and reboot the country, a new currency without the debt or liabilitys of the past is needed. Ireland, Greece, Spain and Italy should not be sacrificial pawns to keep the inflated pyramid Euro alive, the Euro has to be killed off and the whole concept of the EU abolished, trading partners is fine but when it becomes like United States and a central dictator in Berlin and Brussels telling us we can't sh1t down the toilet then you know the time has come to collapse the German's imperial plan.

    Yes it will cause short-term economic hardship, but this is what happened in Iceland and they are now in a far better position than us and are adopting the Canadian dollar as their new Currency soon. People here are Myopic in the extreme and we need to plan ahead for a future for our people and right now there is no future for the vast amount of Ireland's youth, Suicide in skyrocketing and depression is common all because of what Fianna Fail did to the country. We must plan ahead and do what is best for Ireland and not for for the bank accounts of Private billionaire bondholders and FF cronie capitalists.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    No need to be sorry, you didn't burst my bubble.
    He said a few more paid by credit card and internet.
    Please dont tell me that its gone up to
    2%
    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
    Did you even read the article? Limerick CoCo have no information about how many people paid online.

    You are living in a dreamland if you think that nationally the payment figures are 12% but somehow in Limerick that figure is 2%.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Stinicker wrote: »
    Agreed, if we had a proper Government they would just simply say sorry EU and IMF we cannot repay and won't repay, threatening to bring down the EU/Euro ponzi pyramid scheme would quickly get debt writeoffs and we have no choice but to default on the loans and let the market correct itself.


    Yes it will cause short-term economic hardship, but this is what happened in Iceland and they are now in a far better position than us and are adopting the Canadian dollar as their new Currency soon. People here are Myopic in the extreme and we need to plan ahead for a future for our people and right now there is no future for the vast amount of Ireland's youth, Suicide in skyrocketing and depression is common all because of what Fianna Fail did to the country. We must plan ahead and do what is best for Ireland and not for for the bank accounts of Private billionaire bondholders and FF cronie capitalists.


    Talk about master of understatement:rolleyes:.

    Imagine having to close an 18billion euro deficit overnight - please expand on what you think would actually happen in this scenario.

    Perhaps you could outline the impacts of the drastic cuts which would be required to social welfare, pension payments, public section pay, funding for health and education. Do you perhaps foresee a scenario where huge sections of society would go on strike - given the amount of bellyaching going on in this thread over a €100 charge, what do you think would be the reaction of society to the economic apocalypse your have proposed?

    Given you've come on here and proposed this as an alternative to a property tax, it's incumbant on people like you to to actually explain the effects of adopting your proposal.

    Iceland btw is completely ****ed and likely to get worse - it's not some magical nirvana.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    I eventually met someone who paid it,they couldn't give me a rational explanation as to why they did it.I left them feeling fairly sheepish when I gave them the stats for the amount of non paying households.

    The only argument I got was, "what if we want to sell the house?" Get real it's value has dropped by nearly 60% since it was bought,they won't be going anywhere.

    Wait 'til this €100 creeps up & up,will they gleefully hand over the cash then?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    zerks wrote: »
    I eventually met someone who paid it,they couldn't give me a rational explanation as to why they did it.
    What, in your view, are the rational explanations for paying the charge?


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    dvpower wrote: »
    What, in your view, are the rational explanations for paying the charge?

    I asked why they paid it and the response was "ah,ehm,but sure we have to".They didn't even seem to know much about the charge & just blindly went along and paid it.

    Where they live isn't even finished and has many empty properties but isn't exempt.It seems they regret paying it now but anyhow dvpower,it's another one for your short list of those who paid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    dvpower wrote: »
    What, in your view, are the rational explanations for paying the charge?

    I'm no fan of household charges but the decision to pay eventually boils down to whether you believe in democracy or not.

    I know that flat rate household charges were opposed by Fine Gael in their election manifesto.

    That being said, the Government have a clear mandate to clean up the financial mess - from all of us.

    The issue of household charges was debated at length in the Dail, in the context of the financial mess the country is in, before the enabling legislation for Household Charges was passed.

    As far as I know, the charge is temporary until even more penal taxes are brought in, next year - so look forward to even bigger charges to come.

    The rational explanation for taxes is that you have to pay your way in life and that includes repaying your debts (even if the debts were raised recklessly and we now don't like them).

    Certainly, the people responsible for the reckless borrowing (whether private, government or public officials) should be brought to account, but that is a separate matter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭naoise80


    Izzy Skint wrote: »
    anyone who has already paid or registered, or intends to pay or register this criminal tax are idiots...full stop!

    Howya. I'm Naoise80, the idiot.

    Happily paid up about three weeks ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    naoise80 wrote: »
    Howya. I'm Naoise80, the idiot.

    Happily paid up about three weeks ago.

    Get'em! :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    naoise80 wrote: »
    Howya. I'm Naoise80, the idiot.

    Happily paid up about three weeks ago.

    good girl.:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭naoise80


    Ghandee wrote: »
    good girl.:rolleyes:

    Very sexist post.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Ghandee wrote: »
    good girl.:rolleyes:


    Smell the irony!
    Ghandee wrote: »
    Once again when the truth gets spoken, a member of the 'pro tax brigade' rears their head, and dishes out the insults.

    Quite pathetic really.:rolleyes:


This discussion has been closed.
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