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Government agreement: Free-To-Air RTE in NI, BBC in RoI on DTT platform

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭slegs


    Antenna wrote: »

    eh, do the DTT transmitters run on 'Fresh Air' ?

    No but they dont run any harder with the extra load of 2 channels

    Antenna wrote: »
    thats like saying that a bus operator should invite some people to travel for free so as to fill up empty seats whilst other passengers pay a hefty cost which is effectively also paying for the passengers invited on for free


    That is exactly what Ryanair do for exactly that reason. Better to fill the seats and get the press and goodwill and the coffee/sandwich sales than have them empty. It costs the same to fly the plane anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    marclt wrote: »
    I think it's best if we stick as closely to what has been said. If BBC1&2 NI are to be made available down south, I don't see how suddenly their locally originated programmes will now appear on some additonal, specially created channel.

    I'm no expert but if the mux is transmitting, does it make it any cheaper to broadcast the mux at half capacity? The inclusion of these channels presumably will be on a mux already carrying Irish PSB content. The cost in the north will involve running a totally new mux to accomodate the three additional channels. I can't see any existing channel wanting to give up their space.

    What will be interesting is the effect on the programme schedules and cross border programme production that has occurred so frequently in the past.

    I think it will be on the rte public service mux and will be fta....i remember my granny talking about bbc down in the midlands via an aerial in the 1950s and it was widely available via the overspill even down here until rte started up their transmitters for their new television service.

    so we would be only going backwards to the future as they say having it back available via an aerial to most of the country!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    The Cush wrote: »
    The coverage maps are same because they were provided to the 3 bidders by RTÉNL as they are the transmission provider.

    Oh I know they're the same because of that. The reason I made a point of it was to avoid anyone getting caught up in the fact that the document was part of EasyTV's application. Not everyone would know better when it comes to RTENL and DTT license applications!:)

    Also, does anyone know how to work between dBm and dBuV/m signal strengths?? Any info on the net reminds me of physics in college:( I can't find anything that gives me a quick breakdown in the differences.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Also, does anyone know how to work between dBm and dBuV/m signal strengths?? Any info on the net reminds me of physics in college:( I can't find anything that gives me a quick breakdown in the differences.

    Radiated Power Calculator: ERP, EIRP, dBuV/m, dBm & mW

    Chart here


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    all mention of bbc being available free to air has been removed from the DCMNR website.

    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/Boost+for+Irish+Language+Broadcasting.htm

    methinks onevision had a word with em........ ah well it was too good to be true..


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  • Registered Users Posts: 780 ✭✭✭craoltoir


    Yes. Amended text reads:

    "The Memorandum commits the two Governments to facilitating the widespread availability of RTE services in Northern Ireland on a free to air basis and BBC services in Ireland on a paid for basis. "


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭slegs


    Excuse my french but that's a fooking outrage

    The wording of the memorandum was quite clear to interpret that it was intended to be FTA. Now a Government department does a U-Turn to deprive Irish people of a free BBC service to hand it over for free to a commercial entity that is doomed to failure in the first place.

    I particulary note the revised wording to be quite specific that the BBC will only be carried on Pay TV

    "
    The Memorandum commits the two Governments to facilitating the widespread availability of RTE services in Northern Ireland on a free to air basis and BBC services in Ireland on a paid for basis.
    "

    An absolute disgrace and yet another example of bowing to vested interests.


  • Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭BarryM


    all mention of bbc being available free to air has been removed from the DCMNR website.

    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/Boost+for+Irish+Language+Broadcasting.htm

    methinks onevision had a word with em........ ah well it was too good to be true..

    Aha!! just what I thought. I seem to remember that the tv piece didn't emphasise that aspect much, it being based on the UK handout?? Did anybody compare the original PR from the two sources??

    BTW, note the 'Irish language braodcasting' bit, was I wrong that the pols would be playing that card rather than the bbc availability one??

    Bye, Barry


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    anyone care to ring the department and ask them why the change of face??? would be interesting to see their excuse..


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,599 ✭✭✭ScrubsfanChris


    I for one don't really care if BBC NI isn't FTA via DTT.
    Its alreay FTA via satellite (+BBC3 and BBC4) and part of most subscription packages.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭slegs


    I for one don't really care if BBC NI isn't FTA via DTT.
    Its alreay FTA via satellite (+BBC3 and BBC4) and part of most subscription packages.

    For you its fine but for many people who cant or dont want to pay to get satellite it would have been a huge addition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,742 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    anyone care to ring the department and ask them why the change of face??? would be interesting to see their excuse..
    Another government fudge and another failed broadcasting project in Ireland.
    Surely the key here is to get a reasonably decent free selection of channels on one mux, ie the 4 Irish channels BBC 1, BBC 2 and UTV. Draw the people in and then OneVision come in with a reasonably priced Pay tv package on the other muxes.
    I wonder how they will screw up the high definition project. If there is an angle for total failure, RTE/ The Government/BCI/ OneVision will between them find it and inevitably screw it up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    slegs wrote: »
    For you its fine but for many people who cant or dont want to pay to get satellite it would have been a huge addition.

    If they were that put out they would have already got a Satellite.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭sesswhat


    Another government fudge and another failed broadcasting project in Ireland.
    Surely the key here is to get a reasonably decent free selection of channels on one mux, ie the 4 Irish channels BBC 1, BBC 2 and UTV. Draw the people in and then OneVision come in with a reasonably priced Pay tv package on the other muxes.
    I wonder how they will screw up the high definition project. If there is an angle for total failure, RTE/ The Government/BCI/ OneVision will between them find it and inevitably screw it up.

    I suppose it is only a failure depending on your objectives. They can look on it as a sly move which will get RTE onto NI transmitters, the only way of making it free to air.

    Meanwhile they can rightly say that the BBCs are already FTA here, even if it is on Satellite. Job done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭slegs


    There are lots of people in apartments and homes including old people who cant use or receive satellite (and others who in turn cant afford pay tv). For them a cheap MPEG4 set top box and rabbits ears would have got them these channels.

    Hey, its not the end of the world for most of us but its still a disgrace that an agreement that looked like guaranteeing free access for all to BBC has been turned into a carrot for a commercial operator. Thats no way for a government or regulator to behave in a process like this.

    In the UK the government, the regulator and the BBC have worked their socks off to get the UK viewing public the best range of channels for free with the widest access through Freeview and Freesat. Our government and regulator are only interetsed in creating private commercial monopolies that are destined to fail in any case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    I did wonder for a while, why would they let/want BBC FTA south of the border... Of course, it is all about getting RTE maximum exposure.

    Perhaps the best outcome would be that if RTE do go on DTT in the north, then they have to block out all advertising - and provide information screens or such like.

    How much money has RTE put aside to hop onto the three high power transmitters?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭Antenna


    slegs wrote: »
    free access for all to BBC

    Well it would have to be paid for some way or other. How it would be paid for was never clarified. Until it was, it was to be greeted with a grain of salt.

    Was it to be subsidised from the fees for Irish broadcasters to go on DTT?
    If for example TV3 were presented with a large fee to go on the public service DTT MUX (when it officially launches), whilst UK channels were to be given given a free ride, channels with which they are competing with for viewers, if not advertisers, how do you expect TV3 would react ?
    slegs wrote: »
    private commercial monopolies
    Not sure how they would be a monopoly?, as they would be competing with both UPC and SKy, - and even others in some parts of the country


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭Antenna


    marclt wrote: »
    if RTE do go on DTT in the north, then they have to block out all advertising
    :confused:
    Surely they would very much want to sell advertising in Northen Ireland to help pay for being on DTT in the north ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭BarryM


    Another government fudge and another failed broadcasting project in Ireland.
    Surely the key here is to get a reasonably decent free selection of channels on one mux, ie the 4 Irish channels BBC 1, BBC 2 and UTV. Draw the people in and then OneVision come in with a reasonably priced Pay tv package on the other muxes.
    I wonder how they will screw up the high definition project. If there is an angle for total failure, RTE/ The Government/BCI/ OneVision will between them find it and inevitably screw it up.

    +1, the point I made earlier. This is [was?] THE opportunity to sort it all out, messed up already. WTF was Ryan doing apart from the photo-op and the NI angle? It is typical of the Dept., their track record on broadband is a good example of their complete inability to comprehend how technology change can be turned to advantage.

    Bye, Barry


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭slegs


    Antenna wrote: »

    Not sure how they would be a monopoly?, as they would be competing with both UPC and SKy, - and even others in some parts of the country

    They will be a monopoly in the Pay DTT space and non viable one at that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,742 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    slegs wrote: »
    They will be a monopoly in the Pay DTT space and non viable one at that.
    Another point is that they had only one opportunity to get the two BBC channels broadcasting free on DTT via the Memorandum of Understanding directive. I was thinking last week, How could even a total moron screw this up? It can't be screwed up. But yet the complete cretin managed to find an angle to screw it up. Well done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    Antenna wrote: »
    :confused:
    Surely they would very much want to sell advertising in Northen Ireland to help pay for being on DTT in the north ?

    Well, why should RTE be available? Generating advertising on the back of being available in the north would have a negative impact on UTV? Perhaps they could be made available under some sort of pay service via TopUp Tv or in the same way ESPN is available...?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Jpmarn


    craoltoir wrote: »
    Yes. Amended text reads:

    "The Memorandum commits the two Governments to facilitating the widespread availability of RTE services in Northern Ireland on a free to air basis and BBC services in Ireland on a paid for basis. "
    This must be the result of lobbying by Sky and UPC the pay tv providers in the republic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭mrdtv2010


    Why are people getting grumpy about this? I said earlier in the week that costs, competition, rights and regulatory considerations would be a key issue and some chose to ignore that: there is no such thing as a free carriage lunch in DTT. Now the whole proposition is unravelling: the DUP must be laughing quietly!!!

    Having visited the South and West of Ireland recently it is clear to me that Freesat is powering ahead of Sky & MMDS. The case for Onevision has never added up commercially and very shortly I think the plug will be pulled on it. The crisis in the capital markets for countries such as Greece, Portugal, Spain and Ireland is unfolding before our eyes. This will make investment decisions very risky for both the public and private sector: and big cuts are absolutely inevitable in the public service broadcasting sector in those countries. The best bet for now in Ireland is Freesat and Freeview/Freeview HD in areas where available. This reinforces the commercial attractiveness of current combo boxes and forthcoming combo boxes which will have T2 capability. We come back, as always, to the bottom line questions:

    a) Who is going to pay for RTE distribution in NI on three main transmitters and all their relays? Who will pay for spectrum if there is no gifted spectrum and they have to pay for it in an Ofcom auction? The claptrap that other channels could be bumped ignores the fact that these channels have long term distribution contracts for many years with the COM operators and simply cannot be kicked off the Freeview MPEG2 system.

    b) Who is going to pay RTENL for BBC distribution in ROI? Not the BBC, not UK taxpayers, not ROI taxpayers and not RTE.

    I think this rather interesting idea has had a very early demise because it was pure bulls***t.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,742 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    mrdtv2010 wrote: »

    b) Who is going to pay RTENL for BBC distribution in ROI? Not the BBC, not UK taxpayers, not ROI taxpayers and not RTE.

    I think this rather interesting idea has had a very early demise because it was pure bulls***t.
    RTENL, if given the go-ahead to broadcast BBC 1 and BBC 2 just have to make 2 slots available on a mux, rig the approved feeds of BBC 1 and BBC 2 into their encoders, and bobs your uncle. Everything is in place already. There is no cost.


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    RTENL, if given the go-ahead to broadcast BBC 1 and BBC 2 just have to make 2 slots available on a mux, rig the approved feeds of BBC 1 and BBC 2 into their encoders, and bobs your uncle. Everything is in place already. There is no cost.

    There is no cost, but the memo now says money will be involved - BBC Worldwide will want paying - something at least.

    Perhaps when OneVision goes t*ts up, there will some way around this. It would be interesting to know what negotiations there are still to be had between OneVision and the BAI - they either want to proceed or not!


  • Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭mrdtv2010


    RTENL, if given the go-ahead to broadcast BBC 1 and BBC 2 just have to make 2 slots available on a mux, rig the approved feeds of BBC 1 and BBC 2 into their encoders, and bobs your uncle. Everything is in place already. There is no cost.

    There is! BBC Worldwide has commercial agreements with Sky and UPC in ROI: these would also apply to RTENL as a distributor. These carriage costs would then have to be recovered. This is why it won't happen and Sky and UPC will make sure it won't happen through the courts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,742 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    marclt wrote: »
    There is no cost, but the memo now says money will be involved - BBC Worldwide will want paying - something at least.

    Perhaps when OneVision goes t*ts up, there will some way around this.
    Sorry mate, we have only one bite of this particular cherry, one document to sign and Cretin Ryan is in charge of the pen.:mad:
    mrdtv2010 wrote: »
    There is! BBC Worldwide has commercial agreements with Sky and UPC in ROI: these would also apply to RTENL as a distributor. These carriage costs would then have to be recovered. This is why it won't happen and Sky and UPC will make sure it won't happen through the courts.
    Wrong, Wrong and.......Wrong.
    Sky have no jurisdiction in what happens broadcasting wise in the Republic, they used this to their advantage many times in the past (When the BCI were trying to regulate them). BBC Worldwide would have no say in the matter if Ben Bradshaw signs on the dotted line. UPC likewise will have no say if Ryan signs on the dotted line.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    This is a POLITICAL decision, not commercial.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭Antenna


    RTENL, if given the go-ahead to broadcast BBC 1 and BBC 2 just have to make 2 slots available on a mux, rig the approved feeds of BBC 1 and BBC 2 into their encoders, and bobs your uncle. Everything is in place already. There is no cost.

    Surely RTENL are not going to transmit anyone for free. They have to be paid for somehow, and no-one said how . How would TV3 etc react if they did?

    Any costs to BBC Worldwide would be miniscule compared with the transmission costs BTW


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