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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    While I know Paudie has difficulty challenging physically in the air against players like Sean Og and Paudie Maher at present, given it was only his second Senior game since coming back and he scored 3 points from play. That is very good going and shows the talent he has. Maurice has had his best year this year and I know there plenty more to come from him. If he improves as much next year as he did this year then you could have a different look about the Waterford forward line next year provided Mullane and Prender stay.

    We have been carrying a corner forward all year which is not something any of the other teams in the last 6 have had to do. I would hope Brian O'Sullivan will come back strong next year, but there are a couple of other promising young forwards there. I'm a bit more hopeful that all is not the lost now that the initial disappointment has worn off of losing on Sunday.

    People saying this is the end of the road should think about that, because we could so easily have won an Sunday. It's not like we were hammered.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭calvin_zola


    That upthedeise Facebook page is farcical. A breeding ground for negativity, that clown who "moderates" it should be ashamed to call himself a Waterford fan while he allows it to continue... Although he is one of the people posting idiotically on it


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 wex_lad


    That upthedeise Facebook page is farcical. A breeding ground for negativity, that clown who "moderates" it should be ashamed to call himself a Waterford fan while he allows it to continue... Although he is one of the people posting idiotically on it

    That guy is an absolute clown, some of the stuff he writes on that page you wouldn't see it from a child. He's about 40, he's got the mental capacity of a dog. He knows nothing about hurling and the only thing he ever seems to say is "Eoin Kelly is the best hurler in Waterford". A dope of the highest order.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,478 ✭✭✭✭KevIRL


    That upthedeise Facebook page is farcical. A breeding ground for negativity, that clown who "moderates" it should be ashamed to call himself a Waterford fan while he allows it to continue... Although he is one of the people posting idiotically on it

    The old upthedeise.com site was an embarrasment as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Psychedelic


    Finally its a bit sad to see the bickering going on in the up the deise facebook page. That tool that runs it stirring it all up and players wifes and sisters responding. No wonder we cant win any celtic crosses.
    That upthedeise Facebook page is farcical. A breeding ground for negativity, that clown who "moderates" it should be ashamed to call himself a Waterford fan while he allows it to continue... Although he is one of the people posting idiotically on it
    He is entitled to his opinion and wasn't the only one surprised at the subs used, plenty of people here said it. The worst thing said, and only by one person and not by the "tool" you refer to, was Ken being a selector was the reason Eoin McGrath was brought on.

    Should he just start deleting all comments that aren't positive? The only things that should be moderated is personal abuse of players & management, there is nothing wrong with criticism. Every team in every sport has supporters who will question decisions that cost their team a game and the inevitable disagreements between supporters - this is not unique to Waterford hurling - and is not something that has any effect on whether the team can win a celtic cross, now that is what I call talking rubbish.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Psychedelic


    wex_lad wrote: »
    That guy is an absolute clown, some of the stuff he writes on that page you wouldn't see it from a child. He's about 40, he's got the mental capacity of a dog. He knows nothing about hurling and the only thing he ever seems to say is "Eoin Kelly is the best hurler in Waterford". A dope of the highest order.
    You're complaining about negative comments made about hurlers yet you think it's okay for you to personally abuse the guy? He doesn't post anything dissimilar to the kinds of comments people post here, general comments about who he'd like to see get a game, trying players in different positions, Mullane for captain, etc. I never seen him say anything like "Eoin Kelly is the best hurler in Waterford" so don't know what you're on about there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭deisefolife


    Bahhhhhhh

    new thread for next year this year is over


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭calvin_zola


    Finally its a bit sad to see the bickering going on in the up the deise facebook page. That tool that runs it stirring it all up and players wifes and sisters responding. No wonder we cant win any celtic crosses.
    That upthedeise Facebook page is farcical. A breeding ground for negativity, that clown who "moderates" it should be ashamed to call himself a Waterford fan while he allows it to continue... Although he is one of the people posting idiotically on it
    He is entitled to his opinion and wasn't the only one surprised at the subs used, plenty of people here said it. The worst thing said, and only by one person and not by the "tool" you refer to, was Ken being a selector was the reason Eoin McGrath was brought on.

    Should he just start deleting all comments that aren't positive? The only things that should be moderated is personal abuse of players & management, there is nothing wrong with criticism. Every team in every sport has supporters who will question decisions that cost their team a game and the inevitable disagreements between supporters - this is not unique to Waterford hurling - and is not something that has any effect on whether the team can win a celtic cross, now that is what I call talking rubbish.


    Ah right, sorry you haven't convinced me after another flick through the Facebook page Im sticking to my guns, too much personal abuse on it. I know everyone has an opinion and some of the opinions on that page are similar to that on this thread, but I think this thread is a bit more tactful. Anyway anywhere where players wife's and sisters etc have to come in because of the level of criticism(whatever county) and stand up for them has no business in the public domain, and that's why I think that page has run its course and shud be wound up.. That's my opinion, I won't b saying it on Facebook as I'm not on FB was just browsing it as my friend showed me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭calvin_zola


    KevIRL wrote: »
    That upthedeise Facebook page is farcical. A breeding ground for negativity, that clown who "moderates" it should be ashamed to call himself a Waterford fan while he allows it to continue... Although he is one of the people posting idiotically on it

    The old upthedeise.com site was an embarrasment as well.
    I know yeah, another breeding ground for negativity, that forum really ran some local businesses and business people through the mud.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    Decided I'd have a gawk at this page. Didn't think there was too much in it, though they could change the record on Eoin Mc and Casey, once it's said once that will do, they know themselves.

    Also, we've been watching two different Eoin Kelly's this year obviously, selective memory to forget the two glorious chances he spurned in the Munster Final.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭Deskjockey


    While it was disappointing to lose to Cork, at least Waterford have been a bit entertaining to watch in the championship this year and back a bit more to the style of hurling that was played pre Davy Fitz. That ultra negative setup was brutal to watch and it was refreshing to see Waterford going out and playing 15 vs 15 this year.

    Ultimately we are in transition and need a few forwards to come through and announce themselves


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    Deskjockey wrote: »
    While it was disappointing to lose to Cork, at least Waterford have been a bit entertaining to watch in the championship this year and back a bit more to the style of hurling that was played pre Davy Fitz. That ultra negative setup was brutal to watch and it was refreshing to see Waterford going out and playing 15 vs 15 this year.

    Ultimately we are in transition and need a few forwards to come through and announce themselves

    I think the next 12 months will be crucial to where this team will be heading for the next 4-5 years.The mahonys and shanahan are handy enough hurlers but very tippy tappy. They will need to step up another level and be able to take a game by the scruff of the neck like a Mullane, Browne or Molumphey. Its time for the likes of O Neill, Dillon, O Brien and O halloran(remember him?) to really make their mark in the team as a serious scoring threat(with points & goals) if we are to be contenders in the next few years. If they dont, well we could slip back to the lower tier of teams and be back in the doldrums again. I hope mullane gives it another year or two but he should be played in a more central role(CF or FF) if his pace starts to dwindle. I think its all over for kelly and we need to be looking to the future now and giving the youngsters every chance.

    Defensively we look more solid and SOK in goal looks the real deal.If Browne is good enough to carry on next year then fine but if not i wish him all the best. Darra Fives you would think is the man to step into his shoes. With Molumphey, Moran and possibly shane o sullivan to come back we have decent options in midfield for another few years so its really the forwards that need to step up to the plate. We are only 48 hours out of the championship but Scully and the lads have plenty food for thought already and how they go about certain things over the next 12 months is crucial. I hope they dont mess it up because we are not that far off the pace as some would lead you to believe at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭deisefolife


    I don't think we will do to much in the championship over the next year or two. we should concentrate on our forwards. get in a good forwards coach.and go through the back door.i think it would benefit Waterford hurling. they would get plenty of game time try to rebuild the forwards and get them to focus and play as a team.
    like KK and tipp. our backline is fairly strong now

    limerick and Clare are doing it. they seem to be coming on really strong. and id say they will have something to say in next years championship.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,811 ✭✭✭deisedude


    Bahhhhhhh

    new thread for next year this year is over

    Nah, going to wait for January for a new thread. Club hurling and football championships to be decided yet


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,811 ✭✭✭deisedude


    <Mod-Note>This is an on-thread warning. Personal abuse of individuals will not be tolerated. (whether they are boards members or not). Please keep this in mind when posting.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 978 ✭✭✭Roger Sterling


    WumBuster wrote: »
    I think the next 12 months will be crucial to where this team will be heading for the next 4-5 years.The mahonys and shanahan are handy enough hurlers but very tippy tappy. They will need to step up another level and be able to take a game by the scruff of the neck like a Mullane, Browne or Molumphey. Its time for the likes of O Neill, Dillon, O Brien and O halloran(remember him?) to really make their mark in the team as a serious scoring threat(with points & goals) if we are to be contenders in the next few years. If they dont, well we could slip back to the lower tier of teams and be back in the doldrums again. I hope mullane gives it another year or two but he should be played in a more central role(CF or FF) if his pace starts to dwindle. I think its all over for kelly and we need to be looking to the future now and giving the youngsters every chance.

    Defensively we look more solid and SOK in goal looks the real deal.If Browne is good enough to carry on next year then fine but if not i wish him all the best. Darra Fives you would think is the man to step into his shoes. With Molumphey, Moran and possibly shane o sullivan to come back we have decent options in midfield for another few years so its really the forwards that need to step up to the plate. We are only 48 hours out of the championship but Scully and the lads have plenty food for thought already and how they go about certain things over the next 12 months is crucial. I hope they dont mess it up because we are not that far off the pace as some would lead you to believe at all.

    Would next year be too soon for young Barron from FMWto make an impact at senior I wonder? Of all the talented young lads knocking about (and we have a quite a few) he excites me the most. You could play him anywhere and he'd do well, but I'm particularly looking at that problem corner forward spot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭redlead


    This isn't a reactionary post following our championship exit but we need to realise where the team is at, as there is a lot of overly optimistic views floating around. The glory days are over boys.

    We actually have a strong full back line now which should remain as such over the next few years. The half back line is good but is not as strong as it was. As another poster mentioned, this was the first year that Tony Browne was only alright. He will most likely be gone next year and while the likes of Darragh Fives and Philip Mahony are good players, they are nothing special at intercounty level and won't become such either. Brick is still a great player but is not as good as he was either and moving Moran to centre back is only robbing Peter to pay Paul.

    Our midfield will be strong with the likes of Moran, Sully and a rejuvenated Molumphy to choose from.

    The forward lines is where our real problems lie. We are very weak in this department. Prendergast is our only ball winner and is coming toward the end. He offers little apart from ball winning (which I am happy with) but the support he gets from his surrounding players is pathetic. Pauric Mahony is a tippy tappy hurler as mentioned above. He's excellent at club level but not up to top inetrcounty standard for a team that wants to win an All Ireland. The same can be said of Shanahan who is the most frustrating hurler I have ever seen. He invariably takes the wrong decision 4 times out of 5 (usually involves going on a mazy run to nowhere and losing the ball). When he does make the right decision he will probably get a score but one in five just isn't good enough. He's not happy just to beat one man, he has to try and take on the whole of the oppositions defence before he gets rid of the ball and by that stage all the options are gone and he eventually loses it. Mullane and Walsh need ball played into them fast. Neither of these two can win their own ball either. There's a lot of ifs and buts being mentioned about them but I just can't see them improving to the required standard.

    We have an exceptional forward in Mullane (fingers crossed he stays on) and a very good industrious player in Walsh who most teams would be happy with. We have been arsing around with a second corner forward for years now and are nowhere near finding one. Brian O'Sullivan probably the best of them but I'm not so sure he has it what it takes either.

    Yes some of the guys mentioned above are young but I really think people are living in dreamland if they think they are all going to develop into top intercounty hurlers. I have nothing against their selection as these are the best we have but I just don't think the future is as rosy as some believe. I also don't want to cause any offence and am commenting purely on hurling matters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34 deisedub


    didnt this group win the tony forristal at u14? light at the end of the tunnell one hopes

    They did indeed. I hope the cutback in resources available to them doesn't afflict them too badly.
    Funding is a major problem for all our underage development squads and we really need to address this issue if we want to keep pace with the top counties.


  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭deisefolife


    deisedub wrote: »
    Funding is a major problem for all our underage development squads and we really need to address this issue if we want to keep pace with the top counties.

    but we have to be careful that we don't burn out all our young stars before they fully blossom..


  • Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭solarith


    but we have to be careful that we don't burn out all our young stars before they fully blossom..
    Better burn out 10% than have 90% not reach fruition. Look at the lack of step up from our Minor Munster Championship Winning team to the present u21 team - this is a massive issue.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 34 deisedub


    deisedub wrote: »
    Funding is a major problem for all our underage development squads and we really need to address this issue if we want to keep pace with the top counties.

    but we have to be careful that we don't burn out all our young stars before they fully blossom..
    I am fully aware of mistakes made in relation to burn out . as i said we need resources i.e money to develope the players in a manner that is relative to their age so that waterford can be successful on a continuous basis year in year out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Psychedelic


    A lot of people seem to think Mullane may not be there next year, I don't know why as he is only 30 or 31 I think? And he is still in top form. No way can I see him retiring next year.

    Also, I hope he will get a chance at the captaincy next year, there is no one more deserving of it than him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭deisefolife


    A lot of people seem to think Mullane may not be there next year, I don't know why as he is only 30 or 31 I think? And he is still in top form. No way can I see him retiring next year.

    Also, I hope he will get a chance at the captaincy next year, there is no one more deserving of it than him.

    i was shocked he wasn't picked for it this year. None more deserving than John mullan. He should defiantly be made captain in 2013....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    redlead wrote: »
    This isn't a reactionary post following our championship exit but we need to realise where the team is at, as there is a lot of overly optimistic views floating around. The glory days are over boys.

    We actually have a strong full back line now which should remain as such over the next few years. The half back line is good but is not as strong as it was. As another poster mentioned, this was the first year that Tony Browne was only alright. He will most likely be gone next year and while the likes of Darragh Fives and Philip Mahony are good players, they are nothing special at intercounty level and won't become such either. Brick is still a great player but is not as good as he was either and moving Moran to centre back is only robbing Peter to pay Paul.

    Our midfield will be strong with the likes of Moran, Sully and a rejuvenated Molumphy to choose from.

    The forward lines is where our real problems lie. We are very weak in this department. Prendergast is our only ball winner and is coming toward the end. He offers little apart from ball winning (which I am happy with) but the support he gets from his surrounding players is pathetic. Pauric Mahony is a tippy tappy hurler as mentioned above. He's excellent at club level but not up to top inetrcounty standard for a team that wants to win an All Ireland. The same can be said of Shanahan who is the most frustrating hurler I have ever seen. He invariably takes the wrong decision 4 times out of 5 (usually involves going on a mazy run to nowhere and losing the ball). When he does make the right decision he will probably get a score but one in five just isn't good enough. He's not happy just to beat one man, he has to try and take on the whole of the oppositions defence before he gets rid of the ball and by that stage all the options are gone and he eventually loses it. Mullane and Walsh need ball played into them fast. Neither of these two can win their own ball either. There's a lot of ifs and buts being mentioned about them but I just can't see them improving to the required standard.

    We have an exceptional forward in Mullane (fingers crossed he stays on) and a very good industrious player in Walsh who most teams would be happy with. We have been arsing around with a second corner forward for years now and are nowhere near finding one. Brian O'Sullivan probably the best of them but I'm not so sure he has it what it takes either.

    Yes some of the guys mentioned above are young but I really think people are living in dreamland if they think they are all going to develop into top intercounty hurlers. I have nothing against their selection as these are the best we have but I just don't think the future is as rosy as some believe. I also don't want to cause any offence and am commenting purely on hurling matters.

    There's not an awful lot I agree with you on here, I'm afraid. That we've a good midfield, that Prender is a good ball winner and that's his sole purpose, and that Brick hasn't been as good as he has the last couple of years while remaining a solid center back.

    I can't fathom your views on Darragh Fives. I've a very high opinion of him, thought he was brilliant in his first year last year bar the Munster Final which I certainly wouldn't hold against him. For his consistency and class, Colin Fennelly has been Kilkenny's best forward this year and was very good last year. Darragh held him though. He played Center Back for UCC when they won the Fitzgibbon this year, and I heard he was hurling super stuff with Waterford in challenges and training before injury ruined his year. At only 20 years of age, I really can't believe you could be so harsh...and wrong. Tony Browne captained an all-ireland winning u21 team at 19 sure, but the following year at 20 he played with Waterford when they lost to Kerry. People thought Brick was going to be a footballer when he was 20, and while he has those outstanding physical attributes and a great brain, Darragh is more skilful.

    As for Philip Mahony, it's taken him a while to cement a place but he's had a pretty good season. God knows Galway have had enough problems in midfield over the years, Tipp are carrying Shane McGrath in my opinion, and Kilkenny without Fennelly and Rice starting were destroyed by Galway, even though they in turn had destroyed Dublin. He's a good player and I can see him improving. Maybe he'll never be Tony Browne, but I don't think that's a fair comparison nor reason to right him off as an inter-county hurler.

    Shane Walsh can't win his own ball , yet you describe him as an industrious player? Did you see his catch for his point? He also prevented Cork from winning clean ball and kept the ball in the forwards while he was on, and was crystal clear the loss that was when he went off injured.

    I also remember Mullane making a great catch and spear heading attacks by picking up loose ball when players were trying to get the ball off the ground, so I don't agree there either.

    I'll agree Maurice's decisions in possession need to improve, but he's better than the player I saw this time last year and still young.

    Mahony is the same age as Fives, and he has had a serious operation, yet he's managed to come back and put in a good shift for half a match against Tipp and score 0-3 points from play against Cork. Take John Mullane aside for a minute, what other half-forward have we had that can score that in the last few years?

    I agree we have had no luck finding a second corner forward, and I also agree Brian O'Sullivan is best placed to try and sort that next year, but each year is different and I wouldn't be suprised to see more new faces to enter the fray next year. In fact, I expect it.

    Provided nobody outside of Tony retires, I see no reason we can't maintain and even improve our team from this year. It must be said that most teams in the Country are improving too and it's becoming a really competitive and great championship, but we can certainly stay in the mix. The one team that you can definitely say is declining is Kilkenny, even though they probably still are the best team in the Country. Surely that can only be good news to any potential challengers?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭deisebhoy17


    redlead wrote: »
    This isn't a reactionary post following our championship exit but we need to realise where the team is at, as there is a lot of overly optimistic views floating around. The glory days are over boys.

    We actually have a strong full back line now which should remain as such over the next few years. The half back line is good but is not as strong as it was. As another poster mentioned, this was the first year that Tony Browne was only alright. He will most likely be gone next year and while the likes of Darragh Fives and Philip Mahony are good players, they are nothing special at intercounty level and won't become such either. Brick is still a great player but is not as good as he was either and moving Moran to centre back is only robbing Peter to pay Paul.

    Our midfield will be strong with the likes of Moran, Sully and a rejuvenated Molumphy to choose from.

    The forward lines is where our real problems lie. We are very weak in this department. Prendergast is our only ball winner and is coming toward the end. He offers little apart from ball winning (which I am happy with) but the support he gets from his surrounding players is pathetic. Pauric Mahony is a tippy tappy hurler as mentioned above. He's excellent at club level but not up to top inetrcounty standard for a team that wants to win an All Ireland. The same can be said of Shanahan who is the most frustrating hurler I have ever seen. He invariably takes the wrong decision 4 times out of 5 (usually involves going on a mazy run to nowhere and losing the ball). When he does make the right decision he will probably get a score but one in five just isn't good enough. He's not happy just to beat one man, he has to try and take on the whole of the oppositions defence before he gets rid of the ball and by that stage all the options are gone and he eventually loses it. Mullane and Walsh need ball played into them fast. Neither of these two can win their own ball either. There's a lot of ifs and buts being mentioned about them but I just can't see them improving to the required standard.

    We have an exceptional forward in Mullane (fingers crossed he stays on) and a very good industrious player in Walsh who most teams would be happy with. We have been arsing around with a second corner forward for years now and are nowhere near finding one. Brian O'Sullivan probably the best of them but I'm not so sure he has it what it takes either.

    Yes some of the guys mentioned above are young but I really think people are living in dreamland if they think they are all going to develop into top intercounty hurlers. I have nothing against their selection as these are the best we have but I just don't think the future is as rosy as some believe. I also don't want to cause any offence and am commenting purely on hurling matters.

    Agree it mightened be as rosy as some beieve but surely cant be as bleak as you make it out to be either. The 2 Mahonys and Fives's are written off as failures before their career has even begun? Remember how young these lads are just because they dont burst onto the scene like a Joe Canning Dosent mean they wont improve. Players dont peak until their mid-twenties. Theres no way you can say that either of these 3 players cant be top class players. Remeber the Injury problems these 3 lads have had aswell. OTT in your views


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭blue note


    redlead wrote: »
    This isn't a reactionary post following our championship exit but we need to realise where the team is at, as there is a lot of overly optimistic views floating around. The glory days are over boys.

    We actually have a strong full back line now which should remain as such over the next few years. The half back line is good but is not as strong as it was. As another poster mentioned, this was the first year that Tony Browne was only alright. He will most likely be gone next year and while the likes of Darragh Fives and Philip Mahony are good players, they are nothing special at intercounty level and won't become such either. Brick is still a great player but is not as good as he was either and moving Moran to centre back is only robbing Peter to pay Paul.

    Our midfield will be strong with the likes of Moran, Sully and a rejuvenated Molumphy to choose from.

    The forward lines is where our real problems lie. We are very weak in this department. Prendergast is our only ball winner and is coming toward the end. He offers little apart from ball winning (which I am happy with) but the support he gets from his surrounding players is pathetic. Pauric Mahony is a tippy tappy hurler as mentioned above. He's excellent at club level but not up to top inetrcounty standard for a team that wants to win an All Ireland. The same can be said of Shanahan who is the most frustrating hurler I have ever seen. He invariably takes the wrong decision 4 times out of 5 (usually involves going on a mazy run to nowhere and losing the ball). When he does make the right decision he will probably get a score but one in five just isn't good enough. He's not happy just to beat one man, he has to try and take on the whole of the oppositions defence before he gets rid of the ball and by that stage all the options are gone and he eventually loses it. Mullane and Walsh need ball played into them fast. Neither of these two can win their own ball either. There's a lot of ifs and buts being mentioned about them but I just can't see them improving to the required standard.

    We have an exceptional forward in Mullane (fingers crossed he stays on) and a very good industrious player in Walsh who most teams would be happy with. We have been arsing around with a second corner forward for years now and are nowhere near finding one. Brian O'Sullivan probably the best of them but I'm not so sure he has it what it takes either.

    Yes some of the guys mentioned above are young but I really think people are living in dreamland if they think they are all going to develop into top intercounty hurlers. I have nothing against their selection as these are the best we have but I just don't think the future is as rosy as some believe. I also don't want to cause any offence and am commenting purely on hurling matters.

    Largely I'd agree with Mountainlad on this. I don't think that most people believe the current younger players are likely to turn into John Mullanes and Ken McGraths, but after a few players had solid debut seasons, I'm optimistic that they can develop into very good intercounty players. Remember Shane O'Sullivan and Kevin Moran only really fulfilled their potential at 24/25. The same could be said of Dan!

    With the players we have coming through I think we'll at least remain competitive. I don't think we'll disappear like Offaly and Wexford did in recent years. However, if we are to challenge for an All Ireland we will need a couple more stars to emerge.

    If Mullane and Prendergast stay on next year we could have an outside shot. Sully was a massive loss this year. He could improve the half forward line or midfield. O'Keeffe, Daniels, the two Mahonys, Fives and Shanahan all only really have one proper season of championship hurling behind them each. Hopefully they can come back a bit stronger next year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Black Suir


    Would next year be too soon for young Barron from FMWto make an impact at senior I wonder? Of all the talented young lads knocking about (and we have a quite a few) he excites me the most. You could play him anywhere and he'd do well, but I'm particularly looking at that problem corner forward spot.


    He is good and will play senior for the County, but it has to be as a forward. While he has always given his all as a back, I dont think that those have played him in defence dont fully know what they are doing. At Least if hes in the senior panel next year Mickey Scully will have seen him often enough to know that he is best deployed as a forward.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭redlead


    When I said neither can win their own ball I was referring to Mahony and Shanahan and not Mullane and Walsh which in fairness is what it looked like.

    I rate Fives too, Im just of the opinion that he wont develop into a "top" intercounty player. Im not talking about a team that can compete, Im talking about a team that can win an All Ireland. I acknowledge that a lot of the current younger players could develop but I just don't think they have it in them to develop into really top players. I'm talking about Ken and Tony quality here. Of course I hope I'm wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Black Suir


    There's not an awful lot I agree with you on here, I'm afraid. That we've a good midfield, that Prender is a good ball winner and that's his sole purpose, and that Brick hasn't been as good as he has the last couple of years while remaining a solid center back.

    I can't fathom your views on Darragh Fives. I've a very high opinion of him, thought he was brilliant in his first year last year bar the Munster Final which I certainly wouldn't hold against him. For his consistency and class, Colin Fennelly has been Kilkenny's best forward this year and was very good last year. Darragh held him though. He played Center Back for UCC when they won the Fitzgibbon this year, and I heard he was hurling super stuff with Waterford in challenges and training before injury ruined his year. At only 20 years of age, I really can't believe you could be so harsh...and wrong. Tony Browne captained an all-ireland winning u21 team at 19 sure, but the following year at 20 he played with Waterford when they lost to Kerry. People thought Brick was going to be a footballer when he was 20, and while he has those outstanding physical attributes and a great brain, Darragh is more skilful.

    As for Philip Mahony, it's taken him a while to cement a place but he's had a pretty good season. God knows Galway have had enough problems in midfield over the years, Tipp are carrying Shane McGrath in my opinion, and Kilkenny without Fennelly and Rice starting were destroyed by Galway, even though they in turn had destroyed Dublin. He's a good player and I can see him improving. Maybe he'll never be Tony Browne, but I don't think that's a fair comparison nor reason to right him off as an inter-county hurler.

    Shane Walsh can't win his own ball , yet you describe him as an industrious player? Did you see his catch for his point? He also prevented Cork from winning clean ball and kept the ball in the forwards while he was on, and was crystal clear the loss that was when he went off injured.

    I also remember Mullane making a great catch and spear heading attacks by picking up loose ball when players were trying to get the ball off the ground, so I don't agree there either.

    I'll agree Maurice's decisions in possession need to improve, but he's better than the player I saw this time last year and still young.

    Mahony is the same age as Fives, and he has had a serious operation, yet he's managed to come back and put in a good shift for half a match against Tipp and score 0-3 points from play against Cork. Take John Mullane aside for a minute, what other half-forward have we had that can score that in the last few years?

    I agree we have had no luck finding a second corner forward, and I also agree Brian O'Sullivan is best placed to try and sort that next year, but each year is different and I wouldn't be suprised to see more new faces to enter the fray next year. In fact, I expect it.

    Provided nobody outside of Tony retires, I see no reason we can't maintain and even improve our team from this year. It must be said that most teams in the Country are improving too and it's becoming a really competitive and great championship, but we can certainly stay in the mix. The one team that you can definitely say is declining is Kilkenny, even though they probably still are the best team in the Country. Surely that can only be good news to any potential challengers?


    Tony did not play in the championship in 1993. Its the only year since 1992 that he didnt play. He may have been in the panel to play Kerry but did not play and did not come on as a sub.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    redlead wrote: »
    When I said neither can win their own ball I was referring to Mahony and Shanahan and not Mullane and Walsh which in fairness is what it looked like.

    I rate Fives too, Im just of the opinion that he wont develop into a "top" intercounty player. Im not talking about a team that can compete, Im talking about a team that can win an All Ireland. I acknowledge that a lot of the current younger players could develop but I just don't think they have it in them to develop into really top players. I'm talking about Ken and Tony quality here. Of course I hope I'm wrong.

    Ken and Tony are two of the top hurlers in the past 20 years. Nicky English says Ken is the best since he started playing, and Tony is a phenomenon.

    What we need is a team of very good players with some just being good players.

    I don't consider us to have really challenged for an all-ireland really since 2007. Even then, we never even took on the eventual winners, but any games since against the best or 2 best teams we were never in danger of winning.

    The only teams challenging for the All-Ireland this year now are Galway, Tipp and Kilkenny. Cork won't win it. They may beat Galway, and they may keep it 'competitive' against whoever wins the other semi, but they won't beat them.

    I would agree with Blue Note. We have an outside chance of being a team that can challenge next year and the year after. We need to improve and not be hampered by players retiring or leaving the panel for whatever reason, and we need the young players that are there to improve.

    I believe practically all of those young players that started v Cork will improve. I also believe Gavin O'Brien will, though time will tell whether it's enough in one year to be able to be a starter for Waterford, but he certainly has a role to play next year.

    We also need one or two more players to come through to strengthen the bench and the starting team.

    As Blue Note said, an outside chance, but with that in mind saying we'll fall off the face of the earth is a bit rash.


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