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"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    I wonder what crazy story he'll spin now, after he's admitted his total failure to provide that robust definition of cfsi nobody seems to be able to find, not to mention his admission that Dembski is a lying scumbag.

    It must disallow close to 99% of the crap he usually posts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Sarky wrote: »
    I wonder what crazy story he'll spin now, after he's admitted his total failure to provide that robust definition of cfsi nobody seems to be able to find, not to mention his admission that Dembski is a lying scumbag.

    It must disallow close to 99% of the crap he usually posts.

    A pinch of common sense disallows most of the crap he posts. But if we're guessing, I'd say he'll go back to completely ignoring everything asked of him, badly 'defining' CFSI, and whining about ad homeninininininemisms until we get bored of asking him stuff. Then claim he was right all along because we have no answer to what he's said, even though he won't have said anything that hasn't already been shown up as nonsense. When we point this out to him, he'll make bad jokes about science, again showing he doesn't understand what he's reading, and when we point this out to him he'll complain that we're being mean to him.
    Oh, and probably go on about saving and love a bit somewhere in there too.


  • Moderators Posts: 51,683 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    It also says that we are Apes!!!

    ... but it's nice to see that ye don't believe that ye are Apes ... progress in the direction of Creation Science at last!!!!:)
    afraid not. We may be descended from an ape but we are not apes. Apes don't have thumbs, walk upright or speak English, Spanish, German etc.
    CFSI is the stuff that causes the difference between a worm and a Human!!!:)
    Happy now???:eek::)
    Yes. it just proves that CFSI is a pile of sh*te.
    J C wrote: »
    Koth seems to think that Evolutionists don't believe they are Apes ... and is shocked that even a 5 year old would believe such nonesense!!!
    ... whereas you seem to think that most people on the thread think they are Apes.
    Koth will speak for himself, I don't need you misprenting me. Humans and apes are descended from a common ancestor, but humans are not apes and apes are not humans.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    koth wrote: »
    afraid not. We may be descended from an ape but we are not apes. Apes don't have thumbs, walk upright or speak English, Spanish, German etc.

    Actually, we are apes. Homo Sapiens are a member of the Great Ape family.


  • Moderators Posts: 51,683 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Actually, we are apes. Homo Sapiens are a member of the Great Ape family.

    The diagram in the linked wiki is my understanding of apes

    So, is that wrong? I'm asking because this is getting very confusing as to what the term ape actually means.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Ape generally refers to the Great Apes and Lesser Apes. Anyone who is a member of the Hominoidea Superfamily is an ape. That includes Humans, extinct members of the Homo genus, Chimps, Bonobos, Gorillas, Orangutans and Gibbons. More specifically, Humans are a member of the great ape family (Hominidae), and even more specific - a member of the Hominini tribe.

    When I refer to Ape, I am referring to the scientific classification - as that's the only one that really counts. All apes share a common ancestor, and have shared features. That is why they are apes.


  • Moderators Posts: 51,683 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Right that makes a bit more sense. Pity JC couldn't explain himself clearly, as I was using ape to refer exclusively to chimps, gorillas etc. and it looks like he was using it in the same manner as yourself.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    I'd recommend to light reading, to start on this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo and then go up each order on the scientific classification on the right hand side to get an understanding of the Ape family from a human ancestral perspective.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭oldrnwisr


    In addition to dlofnep's concise explanation and recommended reading I'd also like to recommend this. I think Aron is always quite clear and distinct in explaining things and this video speaks to the core of the confusion above.



    Edit: Actually watching it back now, the video below was what I meant to post but I'm going to leave the first one stand because it's a good commentary on the crap that JC has been coming out with lately.



  • Moderators Posts: 51,683 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Thanks for the wiki link and video clip, guys. Shall look at them later :)

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    In addition to dlofnep's concise explanation and recommended reading I'd also like to recommend this. I think Aron is always quite clear and distinct in explaining things and this video speaks to the core of the confusion above.



    Edit: Actually watching it back now, the video below was what I meant to post but I'm going to leave the first one stand because it's a good commentary on the crap that JC has been coming out with lately.


    I'm glad you left it in as I've just watched it and it's fascinating. On to the next one now. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    We are great apes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    wrote:
    Originally Posted by koth
    ... afraid not. We may be descended from an ape but we are not apes. Apes don't have thumbs, walk upright or speak English, Spanish, German etc.

    dlofnep
    Actually, we are apes. Homo Sapiens are a member of the Great Ape family.
    Ah come on lads ... make up your minds ... are Humans Apes or not?:eek:

    If Evolutionists can't even make up their minds on this simple issue ... it's no wonder that they are so confused about everything else in the W2M Evolution Fairytale!!!

    I'll take you out of your misery ... and tell you who is right.:)
    Koth is correct ... we are not apes. He correctly pointed out that Apes don't have thumbs, walk upright or speak English, Spanish, German etc ... and they aren't interfertile with Humans either ... so leave that Ape alone!!!
    ... and don't sexually assault the Gorilla either!!!:)
    (Koth didn't get the bit about the Gorilla thumb correct - but he got the rest perfect)

    Well done Koth ... you win the Darwin Prize for Creation Science Excellence!!!
    ... take a bow ...
    ... and it's up to the front of the class for you diofnep, where I can keep an eye on you ... please write "I'm not an Ape because I walk upright, speak English and don't engage in nooky with Apes" ... twenty times.;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Well, i got the bad jokes part right at least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    The diagram in the linked wiki is my understanding of apes

    So, is that wrong? I'm asking because this is getting very confusing as to what the term ape actually means.
    ... Evolutionists seem to have this problem with plain English allright ... they seem to take several meanings from the word Ape ... and they also seem to have a myriad of meanings for the word 'evolution' !!!
    ... no wonder they are so confused about everything to do with Evolution!!!
    ... and they don't know their Ape from their elbow ... or their science from their faith!!!:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    J C wrote: »
    ... Evolutionists seem to have this problem with plain English allright ... they seem to take several meanings from the word Ape ... and they also seem to have a myriad of meanings for the word 'evolution' !!!
    ... no wonder they are so confused about everything to do with Evolution!!!
    ... and they don't know their Ape from their elbow ... or their science from their faith!!!:)

    This coming from the person who's avoided defining CFSI for the last several hundred pages?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    J C wrote: »
    Ah come on lads ... make up your minds ... are Humans Apes or not?:eek:

    Our minds are made up - Koth was unsure about the classification, I corrected them on it. I don't remember Koth pretending to be a scientist, unlike you J C. It is ok for them to be wrong, and accept a correction.
    J C wrote: »
    If Evolutionists can't even make up their minds on this simple issue ... it's no wonder that they are so confused about everything else in the W2M Evolution Fairytale!!!

    Drop the childish rhetoric. The whole scientific community accepts Humans as part of the great ape family.
    J C wrote: »
    I'll take you out of your misery ... and tell you who is right.:)
    Koth is correct ... we are not apes.

    That is incorrect. We are apes. Great apes who share a common ancestor with all apes, lesser included. That is a scientific fact.
    J C wrote: »
    He correctly pointed out that Apes don't have thumbs, walk upright or speak English, Spanish, German etc ... and they aren't interfertile with Humans either ... so leave that Ape alone!!!

    ... and don't sexually assault the Gorilla either!!!:)

    You resort to being childish when you can't actually conjure up a sensible argument. Apes do in fact have thumbs. They just don't have the same dexterity as humans.

    What's this? Oh look, a gorilla with a thumb!

    gorilla_hand_william_west.jpg

    One would not expect all apes to have speech, nor does evolution predict that. Speech is something that evolved in the Homo genus, and therefore - any ancestor prior to the first speaking member of the Homo genus would not expect to have speech.

    Thirdly - Why on earth would they be inter-fertile with humans? Humans deviated from the closest ape (chimp) 7 million years ago. It is not expected for them to be inter-fertile. Clearly your poor grasp of biology continues. Do you think a Chimp and an Orangutan could procreate also? I mean, they are both apes and should be according to your logic.


  • Moderators Posts: 51,683 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Just to clear things up, JC, humans are apes. dlofnep and odrnwisr cleared up my confusion.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Koth and dlofnep are confused about whether we are Apes or not ... and Robin flip-flopped on the issue:-
    Initially he joined koth in criticising me for believing that Humans are Apes when I was an Evolutionist

    [QUOTE=Originally Posted by koth
    How the hell did you get any (Evolutionist) accrediation if you didn't know that basic fact (that we are not Apes) ?

    robindch;77484975]By going to a creationist diploma-mill?[/QUOTE]

    ... and then he flip-flopped ... and criticised me for not now believing that Humans are Apes.
    wrote:
    Originally Posted by J C
    It's even more shocking that guys with third level education believe Humans are Apes!!!

    Shocking to a creationist perhaps, but I think that's probably ok with most people here.
    dlofnep talk to Koth ... and Robin talk to yourself ... and when ye have worked out whether ye believe yourselves to be Apes or not ... come back and tell the rest of us!!!
    ... I can hardly wait!!!:):D


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    RichieC wrote: »
    We are great apes.

    No. We are awesome apes.

    MrP


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    J C, I have responded to your childish questions in full. I have no need to repeat them. Humans are apes, this is a biological fact - supported by DNA. Something you're going to have to deal with I'm afraid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    J C wrote: »
    Koth and dlofnep are confused about whether we are Apes or not ... and Robin flip-flopped on the issue:-
    Initially he joined koth in criticising me for believing that Humans are Apes when I was an Evolutionist



    ... and then he flip-flopped ... and criticised me for not now believing that Humans are Apes.

    Originally Posted by J C
    It's even more shocking that guys with third level education believe Humans are Apes!!!

    Shocking to a creationist perhaps, but I think that's probably ok with most people here. talk to Koth ... and Robin talk to yourself ... and when ye have worked out whether ye believe yourselves to be Apes or not ... come bak and tell the rest of us!!!
    ... I can hardly wait!!!:):D
    I love the way you try to paint this as bad. See, this is one of the reasons I think you are lying about your background. Koth had a view, he was presented with evidence that showed him that view was incorrect. He assessed that information and his position and came to the correct conclusion that his original position was correct.

    Instead of critisicing and making terrible attempts at mocking you should actually look at what he did and try to apply it to the retarded bullsh1t you believe.

    MrP


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    Just to clear things up, JC, humans are apes. dlofnep and odrnwisr cleared up my confusion.
    You remind of an old lady I one met who said that when she was confused about anything she always consulted her local clergyman ... so I guess dlofnep and odrnwisr is the equivalent of your clergymen.

    ... and I was correct when I said that when I was an Evolutionist, that I (erroneously) believed that I was an Ape ... and I'm also correct now in my contention that Humans are clearly not Apes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    wrote:
    Originally Posted by RichieC
    We are great apes.

    MrPudding
    No. We are awesome apes.

    MrP
    Is this a case of becoming what you believe, I wonder???:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    J C, less of the red herrings - and address your lack of knowledge on basic biology.


  • Moderators Posts: 51,683 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    You remind of an old lady I one met who said that when she was confused about anything she always consulted her local clergyman ... so I guess dlofnep and odrnwisr is the equivalent of your clergymen.

    ... and I was correct when I said that when I was and Evolutionist that I (erroneously) believed that I was an Ape ... and I'm also correct now in my contention that Humans are clearly not Apes.

    I never claimed to be a scientist. dlofnep and odrnwisr were kind enough to educate me about the use of the term of ape in science. I'm willing to admit I was wrong due to the evidence provided. If you see that as something wrong, so be it, no skin off my nose.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    MrPudding wrote: »
    I love the way you try to paint this as bad. See, this is one of the reasons I think you are lying about your background. Koth had a view, he was presented with evidence that showed him that view was incorrect. He assessed that information and his position and came to the correct conclusion that his original position was correct.
    ... he told us that "dlofnep and odrnwisr were kind enough to educate" him about the issue ... and he promptly flip-flopped ... sounds like the old lady and her clergyman to me!!!
    Do ye guys have minds of your own at all ... at all??:)
    MrPudding wrote: »
    Instead of critisicing and making terrible attempts at mocking you should actually look at what he did and try to apply it to the retarded bullsh1t you believe.
    MrP
    Says the guy who believes that his great ... great ... granny was a Worm!!!:eek:

    ... or are you going to deny this ... only to flip-flop and then tell us that you believe it ... after consulting your local Evolutionist 'Pastor'!!!:eek::D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    J C wrote: »
    ... he told us that "dlofnep and odrnwisr were kind enough to educate" him about the issue ... and he promptly flip-flopped ... sounds like the old lady and her clergyman to me!!!
    Do ye guys have minds of your own at all ... at all??:)

    Says the guy who believes that his great ... great ... granny was a Worm!!!:eek:

    ... or are you going to deny this ... only to flip-flop and then tell us that you believe it ... after consulting your local Atheist 'Pastor'!!!:eek::D

    I'm still confused as to why anyone* replies to your posts. (you receive a lot of well thought out responses in plain English, only to reply with silly gibberish, covered in smilies). Seriously, what are you on about?


    *Look at me, I'm replying too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    I'm still confused as to why anyone* replies to your posts. (you receive a lot of well thought out responses in plain English, only to reply with silly gibberish, covered in smilies). Seriously, what are you on about?


    *Look at me, I'm replying too.

    I can only answer for myself, but at this stage its mostly for entertainment purposes.

    Edit: And occasionally because he says something so spectacularly wrong, I feel the need to correct it in case someone actually thinks he has a point.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    I can only answer for myself, but at this stage its mostly for entertainment purposes.

    Edit: And occosionally because he says something tso spectacularly wrong, I feel the need to correct it in case someone actually thinks he has a point.

    The thread is huge. I think it's mainly down to J C.

    His ramblings are like pieces of fresh meat thrown into a cage of hungry Lions. They are pounced on straight away, don't stand a chance, but they keep coming.
    I fear the words "I have a cunning plan" are rapidly marching towards this conversation with ill-deserved confidence.
    - EB, "Blackadder's Christmas Carol"

    ^^^ This quote sums up my thoughts when I picture J C getting his 'facts' together for another silly post.

    You're right Doctor, it IS entertaining. :D


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