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thyroid misery

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  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    marymarcy wrote: »
    Hi all

    So to update, saw locum Endo on Friday. He says my symptoms are out of a book. He is not Irish, so either he means textbook, or I am imagining them after reading them!! But my bloods are fine....

    He wants to go back to the original blood test results that my diagnosis was based on, he hasn't seen them as they were done by the GP prior to my current one. So I suppose thats a good thing that he is going back to the start. But he isn't convinced its thyroid, and if not, suggested Post Viral Fatigue (possible) or depression (never felt less depressed and have suffered from it a little in the past, have none of the emotional symptoms at the moment, am quite happy if only my body would behave). He did at least do a B12 test and is sending me for a scan.

    Am afraid I may be fighting a losing battle with him, at least his predecessor was willing to let me try T3 at some point. I will wait and see what the results show, but I'm thinking I will have to look elswhere. So annoying!!!! Slightly disillusioned.

    Feel quite good yesterday and today, for no apparent reason, its all a mystery. I don't understand why some days are reasonable and others a washout. Is that a common experience for any of ye?

    Hope all are well anyway!

    Mary

    marymarcy blood tests combined with symptoms speak volumes , so tests should be done , important keep all printouts.

    low vit b12 and low vit d alone can cause many issues , which one can feel straight away, and their long term effect if not fixed , will cause major concerns.


    goodluck
    chessguy

    goodluck
    chessguy


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    I had been going to a Neurologist about what I had been describing as 'headaches'. I went off for an MRI scan and a blood test. Today the Neurologist had a look at the results of the blood test, and told me that I do indeed have Hypothyroidism. I'm now on a prescription of Levothyroxine.

    Very happy that it isn't anything more serious, and that it's been found now. Just wondering what experience people have regards school. I had gone off the the doctor for the 'headaches' because they had been affecting my ability to concentrate. The same as others have said in the thread, I'd be overcome with a foggyness. I'm just finished fifth year, and I found it very hard to pay proper attention during classes at times. I'd leave school for the day without being able to remember much of what I had learnt. I'm going into sixth year after the summer, and I'd like to know if anyone has any advice in respect to study and that.

    @Supermensch , welcome get them to find out what kind of hypothyroidism it is,like feks hashimotos, they can do this with various tests but you will most likely need to see an endocrinologist .

    also avoid all soya products,
    only eat cooked goitrogenic veg , like broccoli,

    medication if so how long you been taking it ?

    do you feel any better with it ?

    Does any one else in your family have hypothyroidism ??


    Take medication , best taken at night when going to bed , do not eat after taking it just drink water , this way it is best absorbed,

    never wash down with juice/coffee , it can affect the medication , so it does not work well.


    when you get blood tests done always keep a copy , just in case you ever need to look back on them ,
    they will be happy to do a print out.

    good idea to have vitamin d and vitamin b12 checked these need to be in the optimal range , not just okay range

    .also these thyroid tests

    FT3, FT4, TSh,

    goodluck
    chessguy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 marymarcy


    chessguy wrote: »
    marymarcy blood tests combined with symptoms speak volumes , so tests should be done , important keep all printouts.

    low vit b12 and low vit d alone can cause many issues , which one can feel straight away, and their long term effect if not fixed , will cause major concerns.


    goodluck
    chessguy

    goodluck
    chessguy

    Hi Chessguy, it will be interesting to see what the B12 result is.

    Can i just ask, how the hell do you get them to test T3 and reverse T3 when they refuse? I've tried firm requests, pleading, everything bar a meltdown - which will only add to his "mental" theory. He only grudgingly did the T4 and B12.

    Thanks

    Mary


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 marymarcy


    Wyldwood wrote: »
    marymarcy, I can identify with feeling good one day & rotten the next, that's something I have. I think you need to wait for the results of the B12 tests before you make any further decisions. Make sure to always ask for printouts of your bloods so you can see where in the range you are, doctors are inclined to fob us off with the "in normal range" line. The problem with taking T3 or T4 replacement before firm diagnosis is that you risk throwing yourself into a hyperthyroid state &, believe me, that's not a nice place to be. Don't accept the old "depression" diagnosis, you know how you feel. The sooner doctors learn that thyroid is not a cut and dried illness with specific symptoms common to all and stop treating by numbers the better. Meanwhile eating healthy food, avoiding soya based food & junk, drinking loads of water & exercising daily can make things more bearable.

    Wyldwood thanks for all that. Glad to know i'm not the only one who doesnt know from one day to the next how she'll be - not that i'd wish that on anyone! Doing my best with nutrition and early to bed and not putting myself under physical pressure with rushing etc.

    Can I just ask, if i'm not really hypo, would the eltroxin for 3 years not have pushed me into hyper by now?

    Mary


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    I think you would certainly have had some nasty side effects from the Eltroxin by now if you were not hypo. Have you lost weight or feel like you have a constant adrenalin rush? I think it's time to put your case to another doctor who is prepared to listen to you and do the full range of tests including T3. Life is too short to spend it feeling constantly unwell.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32 marymarcy


    Wyldwood wrote: »
    I think you would certainly have had some nasty side effects from the Eltroxin by now if you were not hypo. Have you lost weight or feel like you have a constant adrenalin rush? I think it's time to put your case to another doctor who is prepared to listen to you and do the full range of tests including T3. Life is too short to spend it feeling constantly unwell.

    No, i'm fatter than ever and just as sluggish! I went to see a nutritional doctor (not an MD) with a good reputation locally yesterday, and was very happy after the consultation, i'm going to stick with him for a while and see how i go. Couldnt face another Endo after last week! THankfully still feeling good today, thats 4 days in a row, yay!

    Thanks for all the advice, this thread is a great resource.

    Mary


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    ok, as an experiment to help argue my pathetic, unlistened to, symptomatic hypothyroid case, i've started tracking morning temps. using an in-ear thermo. before i get out of bed.

    For the past 7 days they have been:
    36.3
    36.1
    36.3
    36.5
    36.4
    36.2
    36.6

    any thoughts?

    am finding the cold unbearable at the moment :(
    @frenchmartini , looks reasonable, but you say you feel cold,

    has anyone ever told you you have cold feet..(poor circulation not a big issue).

    are you on a low carb diet...

    have you had the following tests done,?

    T3, FT3, T4, FT4, TSH, vit d vit b12

    double check the thermometer with a normal type old fashioned thermometer they are very accurate ,

    or check it when at the docs see if theirs matches yours.


    goodluck
    chessguy


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    marymarcy wrote: »
    Hi Chessguy, it will be interesting to see what the B12 result is.

    Can i just ask, how the hell do you get them to test T3 and reverse T3 when they refuse? I've tried firm requests, pleading, everything bar a meltdown - which will only add to his "mental" theory. He only grudgingly did the T4 and B12.

    Thanks

    Mary

    check your PM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭LimerickBishop


    Hello,

    I'm in London, and have made another appointment with my GP, with the intention of being referred to an endocrinologist. I've read chessguy's excellent response to my earlier posts, so I want to prepare myself for the questions my GP may ask regarding my wish to be referred.

    Some days this week, my barometer (my calf muscles) have been aching a lot. Today they are fine, Thank God. I don't think I ought to go through life with this discomfort, so I will endeavour to get to the bottom of it.

    My lifestyle is healthy, yet I feel recently my clothes are getting tighter, which isn't a good sign, and my knees feel like they are creaking a bit more than they have. My sleep has been adequate, my diet balanced and avoiding foods which are detrimental, my job is enjoyable and isn't sedentary. In short, I expect to have a good quality of life, but I feel I'm being shortchanged lately in the last few weeks especially.

    I would like the opportunity of being prescribed T3, I'm mystified why many in the medical professions seem unwilling to countenance giving this.

    Thanks in advance for all responses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 marymarcy


    Hi all,

    I just got a copy of test results from my previous GP who diagnosed me, and my TSH at the start (August 2009) was 9.3, that was when i was diagnosed, but the two prior routine tests she did over the previous 18 months were 5.85 and 6.5 and nothing was done, i do remember her saying i was borderline.

    She also did Free T4 which I hadnt realised (14.4, 11, 11.4, 13.8 over a period of 18 months from Jan 2008, pre diagnosis, to Oct 2009). Corresponding TSH were 5.85, 6.6, 9.3 and 6.16)

    In mid 2010, B12 was 335 and Ferritin was 29, which both seem in the lower end to me? Ferritin was 24 last year, I am taking Galfer everyday, not sure when i started, but have always been inclined to have low iron, mine was 14.6 in March, but ever since menstruation started I would usually be lucky to be at 12 and have always supplemented on and off with iron. I dont really understand how all the different blood results operate. I also had quite low transferrin saturation in March, 16. 7 which is barely into the normal range.

    All insights appreciated!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    I wonder if anyone has ever had a generic levothyroxine dispensed instead of Eltroxin & felt unwell on it. I was given generic Goldshield Levo by the pharmacist & told it was identical to Eltroxin & when I read the ingredients they did seem to be the same. I started the generic on Monday & last night and today I feel distinctly unwell - jittery, dizzy, some palps- not severe but not nice. Could this be the generic? I had increased the dose of Eltroxin marginally (+ 25mcg one day a week) five weeks ago and was feeling ok. I'm now confused as to whether it's the generic or the increased dose is causing the problem. Anyone else have similar experience or is this just my whacky system again?


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    Wyldwood wrote: »
    I wonder if anyone has ever had a generic levothyroxine dispensed instead of Eltroxin & felt unwell on it. I was given generic Goldshield Levo by the pharmacist & told it was identical to Eltroxin & when I read the ingredients they did seem to be the same. I started the generic on Monday & last night and today I feel distinctly unwell - jittery, dizzy, some palps- not severe but not nice. Could this be the generic? I had increased the dose of Eltroxin marginally (+ 25mcg one day a week) five weeks ago and was feeling ok. I'm now confused as to whether it's the generic or the increased dose is causing the problem. Anyone else have similar experience or is this just my whacky system again?

    @Wyldwood

    yes Goldshield Eltroxin , is the most stable product,

    some generics just do not work well, issues can be poor storage uneven mixture <<< this can be a BIG issue./, cheap fillers,

    They may have the same ingredients , but not all tomatoes are they same , they just bear the same name.

    Just 1 example a few weeks ago the t3 tri-tre was withdrawn and production stopped

    here that link
    http://www.imb.ie/EN/Publications/Pu...es-Board-.aspx

    Best to insist on Goldshield Eltroxin, tell the chemist the other disagrees with you.I am quite sure sure they will accomadate you.

    Now my T3
    and T4

    are both Goldshield products.

    See my previous posts >>too much T4 backfires as some of the T4 makes Reverse T3 this is a natural process,

    thats why T4 T3, FT4 and FT3 TSH all need to be checked.For a clear picture.

    you can spot it backfiring as the FT4 will be at almost the max of the range and FT3 will be at the low quarter end of the range , or even under it.

    I am sure your doc knows this , a gentle reminder may be called for :)

    goodluck
    chessguy


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    marymarcy wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I just got a copy of test results from my previous GP who diagnosed me, and my TSH at the start (August 2009) was 9.3, that was when i was diagnosed, but the two prior routine tests she did over the previous 18 months were 5.85 and 6.5 and nothing was done, i do remember her saying i was borderline.

    She also did Free T4 which I hadnt realised (14.4, 11, 11.4, 13.8 over a period of 18 months from Jan 2008, pre diagnosis, to Oct 2009). Corresponding TSH were 5.85, 6.6, 9.3 and 6.16)

    In mid 2010, B12 was 335 and Ferritin was 29, which both seem in the lower end to me? Ferritin was 24 last year, I am taking Galfer everyday, not sure when i started, but have always been inclined to have low iron, mine was 14.6 in March, but ever since menstruation started I would usually be lucky to be at 12 and have always supplemented on and off with iron. I dont really understand how all the different blood results operate. I also had quite low transferrin saturation in March, 16. 7 which is barely into the normal range.

    All insights appreciated!
    ========================

    @marymarcy vit b12 needs to be over 500,

    lab range for ferritin is 14 -200,,your Ferritin is also .>>>far too low

    also indicated by the transferin saturation.

    Are you vegetarian ?? Not sure if you mentioned this before..

    Do your self a favour eat some lambs & beef liver ,
    and chicken livers ,must be home made not pre made or you will miss the nutrients , like iron ,copper ,choline,

    And free range eggs, soft fried or poached,

    these micronutrients and minerals will impact your iron and vit b in a very good way,

    3 half /small portions of liver spread out over a week for say 3 months should do it.

    check this with your doc, sure they know this and will agree :)

    Also sublingual B12 supplements are good,

    In one of my previous posts i have a list of supplements and manafacturers.of quality supplements.The products are from Iherb I have no affiliation.The vit B12 is on that list.

    best to buy organic,,grass fed meats.
    Then get bloods tested.


    goodluck
    chessguy


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    chessguy, don't think it's T4 backfiring as my FT3 is below range at 3.8 (3.9-6.7), my FT4 is at the lower end of "normal" 14 (12-22), my TSH is 5.5 (.4-4) which is about as low as I can go without getting hyper symptoms & endo is ok with that at present. I think my problem is the generic 25mcg Goldshield levo. I'm going to half some 50mcgs & try taking them for a few days to see if it improves things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    Wyldwood wrote: »
    chessguy, don't think it's T4 backfiring as my FT3 is below range at 3.8 (3.9-6.7), my FT4 is at the lower end of "normal" 14 (12-22), my TSH is 5.5 (.4-4) which is about as low as I can go without getting hyper symptoms & endo is ok with that at present. I think my problem is the generic 25mcg Goldshield levo. I'm going to half some 50mcgs & try taking them for a few days to see if it improves things.

    Wyldwood,

    might well be worth a try to take the same dose , as you do now but take the T4 just before going to bed so no food after it,ias t will be absorbed better,

    studies have shown this is the besttime to take Etroxin,

    referance

    thyrioxine is best taken at night time Not in the mornings.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17201800


    When your FT3 and FT4 are this low do you normally feel good.?


    goodluck
    chessguy


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 marymarcy


    chessguy wrote: »
    ========================

    @marymarcy vit b12 needs to be over 500,

    lab range for ferritin is 14 -200,,your Ferritin is also .>>>far too low

    also indicated by the transferin saturation.

    Are you vegetarian ?? Not sure if you mentioned this before..

    Do your self a favour eat some lambs & beef liver ,
    and chicken livers ,must be home made not pre made or you will miss the nutrients , like iron ,copper ,choline,

    And free range eggs, soft fried or poached,

    these micronutrients and minerals will impact your iron and vit b in a very good way,

    3 half /small portions of liver spread out over a week for say 3 months should do it.

    check this with your doc, sure they know this and will agree :)

    Also sublingual B12 supplements are good,

    In one of my previous posts i have a list of supplements and manafacturers.of quality supplements.The products are from Iherb I have no affiliation.The vit B12 is on that list.

    best to buy organic,,grass fed meats.
    Then get bloods tested.


    goodluck
    chessguy

    Hi again.

    Why are my iron results so low when i take iron daily? I'm not a vegetarian but mainly eat chicken and fish. I will start to incorporate liver.

    I love soft eggs but always feel a bit icky after them so have taken to snacking on hard boiled, is this any good?

    As for B12, would injections be a good way to go?

    So apart altogether from thyroid, I have low Vitamin D, B12 and iron, at least the picture is coming together.

    Thanks

    Mary


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭cltt97


    Chicken and fish are not good sources of iron. Chicken will have approximately 0.5-1 mg iron per 100 g chicken, beef will have between 2-3 depending on the cut. Liver will be around 7 for beef and around 12 for calf and chicken - but too much liver isn't good either, as it harbours a lot of contaminants, too, and also is very high in Vitamin A, so I wouldn't make that a staple any time soon! A good alternative is black pudding, this has about 12 mg of iron per 100g (but has much less B12 than liver...).
    Eggs aren't great, unless you eat the raw egg yoke, that has about 6mg/100g, but a boiled egg only has about 2.
    Iron comes in many different forms and is much easier absorbed from an animal source than a plant source. Also iron absorption is better in the presence of Vitamin C, so try and eat something rich in Vitamin C with your black pudding :-) - for example raw peppers (capsicums) and a bit of fresh parsley....


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 marymarcy


    cltt97 wrote: »
    Chicken and fish are not good sources of iron. Chicken will have approximately 0.5-1 mg iron per 100 g chicken, beef will have between 2-3 depending on the cut. Liver will be around 7 for beef and around 12 for calf and chicken - but too much liver isn't good either, as it harbours a lot of contaminants, too, and also is very high in Vitamin A, so I wouldn't make that a staple any time soon! A good alternative is black pudding, this has about 12 mg of iron per 100g (but has much less B12 than liver...).
    Eggs aren't great, unless you eat the raw egg yoke, that has about 6mg/100g, but a boiled egg only has about 2.
    Iron comes in many different forms and is much easier absorbed from an animal source than a plant source. Also iron absorption is better in the presence of Vitamin C, so try and eat something rich in Vitamin C with your black pudding :-) - for example raw peppers (capsicums) and a bit of fresh parsley....

    Hi Cltt97

    I realise chicken and fish aren't a good source, I was just wondering why daily iron supplementation on top of a reasonable diet wasn't sufficient for me. And why my iron was 14 but ferritin and transferrin were on the low side. I get plenty of Vitamin C I think.

    Thanks

    Mary


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭cltt97


    Have you had a full blood count done? Is there any abnormalities in your cell numbers, size, volume, hematocrit etc? May be that you take in enough iron but the body can't utilise it....


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭cyning


    Also might be worth looking at the brand of iron your taking: my ferritin levels are gone v low at the moment and I'm on Galfer: it's the only thing my GP will put me on for low ferritin levels: and take your iron with vitamin C to help absorbtion: might be worth a try? My ferritin is only 8 at the moment but then being 39 weeks pregnant might just have something to do with that :)

    I've got to say I had no issues with the quality of Ti-Tre: I had the most stable thyroid levels I had in years on it (up untill I got pregnant): it was the speed it happened wth that threw me: I need to keep taking it until babs gets here and hopefully the pharmacist can get enough to get me over the next few months untill levels even out post pregnancy too.

    My GP tests my T3 every blood test: getting the hospital to test it (not my endo I'm between two different hospitals at the moment) is fighting a losing battle: it drives my Endo mad.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    marymarcy]Hi again.

    Why are my iron results so low when i take iron daily? I'm not a vegetarian but mainly eat chicken and fish. I will start to incorporate liver.

    I love soft eggs but always feel a bit icky after them so have taken to snacking on hard boiled, is this any good?


    As for B12, would injections be a good way to go?

    So apart altogether from thyroid, I have low Vitamin D, B12 and iron, at least the picture is coming together.

    Thanks

    Mary[/QUOTE]


    @marymarcy,

    chicken and fish are good food sources but not very good if you want to build your iron up.

    I would not start with B 12 injections as you iron is low ,and you may well be low on other nutrients , so b12 injections could rock the boat ,

    best if VIT D , is raised with oil drops under the tongue,(best absorbed this way) and a good sunny holiday would help your vit D too.

    Reminds me Spain is calling need to book hotels for next 2 weeks.




    soft boiled or soft fried eggs is the best way at least till you get your levels "Normal" as I mentioned micro nutrients and choline are important,steps in building your nutrients up,eggs and liver are power houses.

    see my prev post for SUPPLEMENTS, B12 sub-lingual,(that post has an Iherb link in it) they taste nice under the tongue too. :) are well absorbed , as they do not go through the gut tract.

    You need to build your nutrients and micro nutrients as I mentioned with these foods.
    I gave these good thought before I suggested,them.

    Suggesting free range where possible.



    Do your self a favour eat some lambs & beef liver ,
    and >>>> chicken livers<<<< ,must be home made not pre made or you will miss the nutrients , like iron ,copper ,choline,

    And >>>free range eggs, soft fried or poached,

    these >>>> micro nutrients and minerals will impact your iron and vit b in a very good way,

    3 half /small portions of liver spread out over a week for say 3 months should do it.

    liver reference
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/394660-iron-with-chicken-livers-vs-beef-liver/


    >>>>Cltt97 liver is not full of toxins.


    Cltt97 please cite credible sources , for your "reasoning " especially if you are contradicting, ,
    and share your knowledge sources.

    Kindly look up medical articles or renowned sources, or researchers.And feel free to quote from them.

    Then we can air our opinions and we can advance in thought, & ideas.

    As we are both here to help where we can :)



    Read this, by one of the >>> cutting edge respected researchers and practitioners out there also a specialist on the Thyroid :)

    http://chriskresser.com/natures-most-potent-superfood

    Yes he agrees with liver :)




    cltt97 here clips from the link above for your convenience , which are interesting ..... he does NOT think eating liver is toxic and full of chemicals


    >>>>
    See here

    >>>A popular objection to eating liver is the >>belief<<< that the liver is a storage organ for toxins in the body.<<<< this is a myth <<<<<

    While it is true that one of the liver’s role is to neutralize toxins (such as drugs, chemical agents and poisons)

    ,>>> it does >>> NOT store these toxins. <<<< So its safe to eat especially from free range stocks.


    Toxins the body cannot eliminate are likely to accumulate in the body’s fatty tissues and nervous systems.

    On the other hand, the liver is a is a storage organ for many important nutrients (vitamins A, D, E, K, B12 and folic acid, and minerals such as copper and iron). These nutrients provide the body with some of the tools it needs to get >>> rid of toxins.. <<< see how it helps



    The chart below lists the micro nutrient content of apples, carrots, red meat and beef liver.

    Note that every nutrient in red meat except for vitamin C surpasses those in apples and carrots, and >>>>every nutrient—including vitamin C—in beef

    liver occurs in exceedingly higher levels in beef liver compared to apple and carrots. In general, organ meats are between 10 and 100 times higher in nutrients than corresponding muscle meats.

    that's why beef liver especially is >>>a super food , it has >>>more vit c than citrus fruits wow #, therefore it enables on to absorb the iron and the other nutrients,



    Cltt97 you suggest black pudding, ......



    HMMmmm... Lets have a closer look at black pudding ,can it be good ?

    Black pudding pigs blood and pork fat << I say This fat would most likely contain the waste products the liver would rid of like Kris mentioned above .. , and the waste would be in the blood too ,,,It woudl not help ones cholesterol either.

    My logical conclusion ..based on the above.
    blood of any animal should never be consumed. >>>So this is a definite NO NO.


    @marymarcy It could well be you do not absorb the iron well as you are lacking the minerals and micro nutrients as I mentioned they actually all work together to balance each other.

    But read on
    Coffee, Tea and Oregano

    Coffee and tea will decrease the absorption of iron when they are drunk with a meal that is rich in iron. According to the University of Notre Dame, coffee can decrease the absorption of iron by as much as 39 percent. Tea can decrease the absorption of iron by as much as 87 percent. Oregano is a spice that can decrease the absorption of iron in the body



    That is why I suggested such foods because of their vitamins , minerals and micro nutrients.They should be eaten together , no not all at once :)



    Stephan Guyenet another legend researcher

    Clt97 look what he says

    Vitamin D strongly protects again vitamin A toxicity and vice versa. ... A high intake of vitamins A and D also increases the need for vitamin K2.(K" is in eggs)


    So basically

    Another legend Jack kruse neurosurgeon agrees with this ,too

    Vitamin D strongly protects against vitamin A toxicity and vice versa also eggs are high in k2 and they protect against bad effects of vitamin A ,,

    Now this is if you eats tons of liver , all is okay if you eat the three small portions I mentioned, with organic eggs. etc


    So CLtt97 now do you see why I mentioned the above to be taken together to support each other , they actually support each other ,


    >>>> The Myth of Vitamin A Toxicity
    http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/vitamin-a-saga,



    section

    Unless you are an arctic explorer, it is virtually impossible to develop vitamin-A toxicity from food;



    ...I hope you see my comments in the good light they are portrayed in :)


    If I am incorrect please cite your sources if they are credible.And I will look into it.




    goodluck
    chessguy


  • Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭frenchmartini


    chessguy wrote: »
    @frenchmartini , looks reasonable, but you say you feel cold,

    has anyone ever told you you have cold feet..(poor circulation not a big issue).

    are you on a low carb diet...

    have you had the following tests done,?

    T3, FT3, T4, FT4, TSH, vit d vit b12

    double check the thermometer with a normal type old fashioned thermometer they are very accurate ,

    or check it when at the docs see if theirs matches yours.


    goodluck
    chessguy


    i've only ever had TSH (2.8) and T4 (14.9) tested, June 2012. I have only half my thyroid. They refuse to test beyond T4 and TSH because I am in normal ranges.

    Yes, very very cold feet and hands, all the time.

    I am going to the UK to a clinic to get the whole sweep of tests done including antibodies. I may be wasting my time and money but at least i'll know. i just need to know why i feel so ill all the time, and if it isn't my thyroid or my glands...

    thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭cltt97


    I think it's time for me to say bye bye to this forum as I am really not in the humour to engage in a battle where I am supposed to justify everything I say. I don't make up things I say and have a very sound scientific background so I do know what I'm talking about. I am happy to help anyone who would like my help, so please send me a PM if you'd like my input.


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    cltt97 wrote: »
    I think it's time for me to say bye bye to this forum as I am really not in the humour to engage in a battle where I am supposed to justify everything I say. I don't make up things I say and have a very sound scientific background so I do know what I'm talking about. I am happy to help anyone who would like my help, so please send me a PM if you'd like my input.


    @Cltt97, .

    In my post above I wrote


    "..I hope you see my comments in the good light they are portrayed in << I meant this I did not want you to take this negatively..


    If I am incorrect please cite your sources if they are credible.And I will look into it."


    There is no battle and you do not need to justify every thing you say,

    But when contradicting another like knowledgeable forum member , one should quote a "reliable source of reference so we all have a better understanding"

    we are all fallible and this is how we learn, from one another ,


    If I made an incorrect conclusion , I would be content in the fact that it was highlighted for me , so I could progress in a positive way.

    imho you contribute well to this forum ,and have helped many and I sincerely hope you continue to do so :)


    goodluck
    chessguy


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    i've only ever had TSH (2.8) and T4 (14.9) tested, June 2012. I have only half my thyroid. They refuse to test beyond T4 and TSH because I am in normal ranges.

    Yes, very very cold feet and hands, all the time.

    I am going to the UK to a clinic to get the whole sweep of tests done including antibodies. I may be wasting my time and money but at least i'll know. i just need to know why i feel so ill all the time, and if it isn't my thyroid or my glands...

    thanks

    @frenchmartini,
    you are not wasting your time and money,
    and it appears you are taking a logical course of action,

    which clinic are you opting for ?

    please keep us posted , as it could well benefit others here,

    goodluck
    chessguy


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 marymarcy


    Cltt97
    I've had a full blood count done, i'll have a more indepth look at it later, I do recall the GP saying something along the lines of my red blood cells being a little on the large side, would that have an impact?

    Cyning
    I'm taking Galfer, but just read the packet which says take 2 a day to raise iron levels, i was only taking one, so i will up the dose, suffer from constipation so hope this doesnt have too much of an impact. I would get most of my Vit C in the morning, but take iron at night as have to take it well away from Eltroxin, so i will take a Vit C tablet with the iron from now on.

    Chessguy
    I'm using D-pearl (pharmanord) as instructed by Endo to up Vit D. why soft eggs? are hard boiled not as good? As i said i find them easier to eat hard boiled, as they dont make me feel queasy, whereas soft do.

    Thanks all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭cyning


    marymarcy wrote: »
    Cyning
    I'm taking Galfer, but just read the packet which says take 2 a day to raise iron levels, i was only taking one, so i will up the dose, suffer from constipation so hope this doesnt have too much of an impact. I would get most of my Vit C in the morning, but take iron at night as have to take it well away from Eltroxin, so i will take a Vit C tablet with the iron from now on.

    Check with your doc first: I take my Eltroxin first thing and iron four hours later. Galfer certainly can make you constipated: I have no clue about taking it with a vitamin c tablet: how about with freshly squeezed orange juice maybe?


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭chessguy


    marymarcy wrote: »
    Cltt97
    I've had a full blood count done, i'll have a more indepth look at it later, I do recall the GP saying something along the lines of my red blood cells being a little on the large side, would that have an impact?

    Cyning
    I'm taking Galfer, but just read the packet which says take 2 a day to raise iron levels, i was only taking one, so i will up the dose, suffer from constipation so hope this doesnt have too much of an impact. I would get most of my Vit C in the morning, but take iron at night as have to take it well away from Eltroxin, so i will take a Vit C tablet with the iron from now on.

    Chessguy
    I'm using D-pearl (pharmanord) as instructed by Endo to up Vit D. why soft eggs? are hard boiled not as good? As i said i find them easier to eat hard boiled, as they dont make me feel queasy, whereas soft do.

    Thanks all.

    @marymarcy,
    I do not agree with raw eggs because of modern farming,
    but below a quote from Merola,

    If you choose not to eat your eggs raw, poached or soft-boiled is your next best option. Aside from microwaving, scrambling your eggs is one of the worst ways to cook them as it oxidizes the cholesterol in the egg yolk, which may in fact harm your health.

    so basically soft cooked eggs provide more nutrients

    the exception being scrambled eggs not s healthy way to cook.

    This may be of interest large red blood cells...
    http://www.ehow.com/about_5070758_causes-macrocytic-anemia.html

    An example case ..
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15742609


    This emphasis how important our nutrients /vitamins are.

    It would be a good logical step to have a complete mineral and vitamin analysis,
    and bring these nutrients up to a solid level, under the auspice , of a good professional.




    goodluck
    chessguy


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Theresa66


    Hi cltt97, thanks for all the in-depth facts about how the thyroid system works, I've been on the net for the last two weeks and this has been the most informative thread I've found.

    I stopped growing from age 7 to 10. At ten, fat and lethargic, I was sent to Crumlin for tests. The endo there at the time, Dr. Cullen, said my thyroid gland wasn't working. I was put on Eltroxin and I've been holding steady on 100 mcg Eltroxin 40 years later (I'm 46 now).

    I've survived, but in hindsight I've always had low energy and anxiety and sometimes depression and I wish I'd been told all the mechanisms of this years ago, I might have realised how much more complex it actually is, and that taking T4 is not the only way. I do remember asking for Armour about ten years ago in St James's after I pretty much demanded a battery of tests for lupus/adrenals etc. as I was having problems with infertility, hair loss, anxiety, etc. But I was told they didn't prescribe it, can't remember the reason, and I just trusted what I was told.

    (I've since had a child, after getting a great increase in libido while on a very stone age diet with lots of veg and juice diets etc., not very sustainable tho over the course of a lifetime.)

    I haven't seen an endo in years, but I've been really feeling foggy and blah lately so I got bloods done at James's. GP receptionist read them out:

    TSH is 0.25 (0.27 - 4.20).
    T4 is 21 (12-22)
    T3 is 2.1 (1.3 - 3.1)

    My GP did ask for free T3 and free T4 (so I would have wondered if there was a mistake, but that you mentioned on these threads that James's don't test for free T3 or T4).

    I think he asked for TPO and TgAb as well, no results for those so maybe they don't test for them at James's either? (I actually didn't ask my GP to have me tested for anything other than thyroid levels, he put them on the blood form himself, it was only after that visit that I really got stuck into the online research.) So there are some good GPs out there.

    Anyway, I'm 'normal' but it doesn't solve my problems. I ordered Armour a few days ago online, cost 70 euro for three months supply. The site explains how to phase it in while phasing out synthetic T4.

    Maybe I shouldn't mess with what I have, but I really feel I need to just tackle this now for once and for all. I think I'll ask my GP to send me to Tallaght for free T3 and free T4 as well as antibodies, probably should do that before I start taking Armour and then do it again after to compare.

    I'm on med card and I don't want to wait around for a year to see a consultant. I think I'll just keep trying different things and ask my GP to have my bloods done regularly to check progress.

    For the record, I am gluten-intolerant (the coeliac antibody results take a little longer to come back so I don't have those yet, GP asked for them too) but I know I can't eat gluten anyway. Inflammatory reactions everywhere. I did get tested for it years ago but no one told me I had to have eaten some gluten to have the antibodies - had been off gluten for months at the time so of course it came back negative.

    I read a very interesting blog where someone who was diagnosed with Hashimoto's at 26 gradually, over about five years, eliminated her thyroid antibodies through diet and supplements. Her thyroid function is fine with no medication. In effect she cured herself of Hashimotos by eliminating anything that might provoke an immune response in her body while boosting her body's nutritional reserves to help her thyroid - she did this as soon as she was diagnosed so she saved her thyroid gland.

    http://hopeforhashimotosdisease.blogspot

    God knows what my poor old gland is like now after 40 years on T4 only. I'd like to have it scanned just out of curiosity.

    Anyway, just wanted to share my story and say thanks. So much useful info here - thanks to everyone, great thread.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Theresa66


    I forgot to say that I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis about twenty years ago, when I lived in the US. They told me I had antibodies and explained what that meant. They explained that they could tell that my thyroid was actually working because it was producing hormones, the problem was they were being attacked by my immune system! That was a big surprise to me after 20 years on thyroxine, and thinking my thyroid gland didn't work, and all the while having my blood levels monitored regularly by James's endocrinology dept!

    So I was able to tell them in James's what was wrong with me when I moved back to Ireland, rather than the other way round!

    Some might say what difference does it make at the end of the day if the treatment is the same for hashimoto's as for a non-functioning or non-existent thyroid gland, and if the end result of treatment is the same = normal thyroid levels?

    I think it makes a world of difference because the immune system comes into play in a big way with hashimotos, and there are lots of things that can be done to help the immune system and prevent inflammation, through diet, supplements, exercise, etc. All this can help.

    Also, hormones have a knock-on effect on other body systems. Why isn't this addressed?

    What I don't understand is why the endos don't sit down and take a thorough case history of each patient, taking into account

    1. hormone levels: oestrogen, progesterone, testosterone, insulin, adrenals (these are all affected by the thyroid and can have a huge effect on fertility, well-being, etc.)
    2. allergies: gluten, dairy (because the proteins in gluten and casein are very similar to those in thyroid hormones and if the body produces antibodies to gluten and/or casein, these antibodies can then mistakenly attack the body - so if the allergen is eliminated the attack might be eliminated)
    3. dietary deficiencies such as iron, b vitamins, selenium, copper, zinc (all needed for healthy thyroid functioning)
    4. family history (leaning towards graves, hashis, non-Hodgkins lymphoma etc - my mother has autoimmune myelitis and my aunt has non-Hodgkins lymphoma - there is a gene that predisposes people to autoimmune disease) - not in the interests of a cure necessarily but in the interests of science, and also it is known that one autoimmune disease can lead to another - they need to explore this link.
    5. mental state - is the patient anxious, depressed - and explain that this can be related to hormone disruption, and test for neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine, gaba, etc. and compensate accordingly. Apparently the growth hormone is closely related to the production of the neurotransmitter responsible for the feel-good Gaba levels.

    No, they test your T4, your TSH, tell you you're normal and off you go. Not only that, the medicine they give you has only one of the 4 thyroid hormones (the natural dessicated thyroid from pig's glands has T4, T3, T2, T1). They tell you that's alright because T4 is converted into T3 by the body (but there is evidence that some people have great difficult with this conversion). They don't bother to tell you selenium helps a great deal with this. And they don't really know what T2 and T1 do, so better not to have them. Although I'm sure there's a reason why pigs have them.

    It just makes me so angry.


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