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Cardinal Sean Brady aware of abuse in 1975

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭ Brianna Unimportant Jelly


    Min wrote: »
    You must have gotten a poor education in history.

    Perhaps he went to a catholic school.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,645 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    mod

    lividduck, please don't post in this thread again. I've had to delete your post from earlier due the unsubstantiated accusation that you made.

    /mod


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭FergusODowd


    If you ask me the whole church has to go. For centuries the church has gone around murdering and raping people.
    You can bury your head in the sand all you want but the c church is one of the most vile evil institutions around.
    Read the history of the Roman Catholic Church it makes hitler look an alter boy.

    The Catholic church consists of 1 billion people, I'm tired of the all the anti jews / blacks / atheists / english / irish / catholic * predjuce rants from hate mongering bandwagon jumping loons.

    *insert preffered bigoted prejudice here.

    As I said, such hate inciting remarks are part of the problem, not part of the solution.


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭celticcrash


    Min wrote: »
    You must have gotten a poor education in history.
    It matters what one has read. I recommend "The Dark Side of The Papacy" by
    By Peter de Rosa.
    Makes Vlad the inpaler look like a nice guy.
    Vlad got his ideas form the Roman Catholic church.
    Its a hard read, by the end of the first chapter one would feel physical sick.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭FergusODowd


    Min wrote: »
    They would have not been abused if the bishop had fulfilled his duties, the person who gathers the evidence is very often not the same person who meets out the punishment.

    No one is claiming Brady should have dealt out punishment.
    There is no getting away from the fact that Brady was able to track down the other boys and interview them, and yet never bothered to ask permission from their parents, or to at least warn them to be careful. He deliberatively did not. No decent human being would do this, he could have at least given them a quiet warning to be careful, instead these kids went on to suffer abuse, while brady chose to skip up the ladder for being a good little sneaky side kick to his pathetic excuse of a bishop. Whatever about him being wrong at the time, he could at least admit 35 years later that he was wrong. How can you say this man is fit to be your leader ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,687 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    The Catholic church consists of 1 billion people, I'm tired of the all the anti jews / blacks / atheists / english / irish / catholic * predjuce rants from hate mongering bandwagon jumping loons.

    *insert preffered bigoted prejudice here.

    As I said, such hate inciting remarks are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
    Welcome to a thread about religion on After Hours ;-)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    mod

    lividduck, please don't post in this thread again. I've had to delete your post from earlier due the unsubstantiated accusation that you made.

    /mod


    I edited my reply to that accusation given I don't want boards.ie sued.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Min wrote: »
    They would have not been abused if the bishop had fulfilled his duties, the person who gathers the evidence is very often not the same person who meets out the punishment.
    Fr Brady took notes and gathered the evidence for the bishop, the problem really is Fr Brady put too much trust in the bishop to do the right thing. I think anyone would expect with this happening something was going to be done to stop what was happening, I believe the Cardinal when he says he was horrified to find that abuse happened after his role in taking notes and gaining evidence against Brendan Smyth.
    One would have expected the evidence was used by the bishop to take the case against Smyth further and for the abuse to have stopped.
    My problem wuith Cardinal Brady is he said the depth of the damage done by abuse was not fully understood.
    It is spectacular how you keep not getting it. The only people with any authority to meet out punishment are the police force of the state who Brady and every other person in the room with terrified damaged kids had an obligation to inform.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭FergusODowd


    Perhaps he went to a catholic school.

    So what if he did ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭celticcrash


    Fergus you know in your heart and mind that that justice wont be served here.
    So why call for it. Its just another smoke screen to keep him where he is.
    Call a spade a spade, he is as guilty as that monster for raping kids.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    No one is claiming Brady should have dealt out punishment.
    There is no getting away from the fact that Brady was able to track down the other boys and interview them, and yet never bothered to ask permission from their parents, or to at least warn them to be careful. He deliberatively did not. No decent human being would do this, he could have at least given them a quiet warning to be careful, instead these kids went on to suffer abuse, while brady chose to skip up the ladder for being a good little sneaky side kick to his pathetic excuse of a bishop. Whatever about him being wrong at the time, he could at least admit 35 years later that he was wrong. How can you say this man is fit to be your leader ?

    It is a pity the bishop of that time is dead as maybe he could have shone more light onto his role and that of the now Cardinal Brady.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭genericguy


    Fergus you know in your heart and mind that that justice wont be served here.
    So why call for it. Its just another smoke screen to keep him where he is.
    Call a spade a spade, he is as guilty as that monster for raping kids.

    I'd go as far as to say he is worse. By carrying on the way he did, he actually facilitated the rape of children. Anyone who attends that filthy scumbag's masses and doesn't lynch him needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

    And min, as always, your attempts at spin are laughable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭FergusODowd


    Fergus you know in your heart and mind that that justice wont be served here.
    So why call for it. Its just another smoke screen to keep him where he is.
    Call a spade a spade, he is as guilty as that monster for raping kids.

    You're not intrested in honest decent balanced justice, that's plain to be seen.
    So as I said, I don't want to be associated with your tripe.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    It is spectacular how you keep not getting it. The only people with any authority to meet out punishment are the police force of the state who Brady and every other person in the room with terrified damaged kids had an obligation to inform.

    I have never said the police shouldn't have been informed. They should have been, the buck stopped with the bishop.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭FergusODowd


    Min wrote: »
    It is a pity the bishop of that time is dead as maybe he could have shone more light onto his role and that of the now Cardinal Brady.

    That does not exonerate Brady, nor should it be trotted out to get him off the hook. You are not obliged to follow illegitimate, invalid, immoral orders from anyone, least of all an incompetant, prideful, vainglorius Bishop. Brady freely chose to do so for prideful vainglorious career reasons.

    Never mind wheeling out and trying to hide behind dead bishops.

    Brady can answer here and now, and do the decent thing here and now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    I will get a lot pf abuse for this, but in certain cases there are ethical questions to be considered. I have in the past reported sex offenders and may do so again if needed. Whilst in my HSE job I am required to [Childrens first act] in private practice I am not.

    What it comes down to for me is whether we are dealing with something in the past vs ongoing; additioinally, the subject's willingness and ability to change needs to be considered.

    A gent I was working with last year reported what you could call "playing doctors and nurses with his sister" when he was younger. He became unwell and was hospitalised, he told a psych nurse the same thing, the nurse reported him. After a year of being called in front of social workers it was deemed to be a non-starter. The point here is we need to be careful. This man was not more a sex offender than Barney [he had brough up a family since then, with no sexual thoughts towards his children], but he almost ended up on the sex offenders list.

    Anyway my point is reporting is not always clear cut. A chap I currently work with was abused repeatedly by his mother, should I report her? If I do my client will stop seeing me, resulting in his recovery being stopped.


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭celticcrash


    You're not intrested in honest decent balanced justice, that's plain to be seen.
    So as I said, I don't want to be associated with your tripe.

    There is no honest decent balanced justice in this banana republic so dont pretend there is.
    Your just another rightous patronising fool who likes to gob off.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭FergusODowd


    There is no honest decent balanced justice in this banana republic so dont pretend there is.
    Your just another rightous patronising fool who likes to gob off.

    Thankfully people like you don't make up the majority of ordinary decent Irish people, and thankfully the majority are not going to give the country up to your vision.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Why should they ?

    If he has a case to answer then they should be forced to do their duty, otherwise they are just as bad.

    You will get no argument from me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭celticcrash


    Thankfully people like you don't make up the majority of ordinary decent Irish people, and thankfully the majority are not going to give the country up to your vision.

    And now your the spokesperson for the the majority of ordinary decent Irish people.
    The majority of ordinary decent Irish people know that there is no honest decent balanced justice in this country.
    If you dont like freedom of speech than dont come on here calling peoples posts tripe.
    If you dont like how people express themselves, just say so and move on with out trying to belittle their posts.
    And you only speak for yourself on boards.ie and not for the majority.
    Keep your ego in check.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭FergusODowd


    And now your the spokesperson for the the majority of ordinary decent Irish people.
    The majority of ordinary decent Irish people know that there is no honest decent balanced justice in this country.
    If you dont like freedom of speech than dont come on here calling peoples posts tripe.
    If you dont like how people express themselves, just say so and move on with out trying to belittle their posts.
    And you only speak for yourself on boards.ie and not for the majority.
    Keep your ego in check.

    A good example of the usually hypocrisy from the people who come on here inciting hatred.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    A good example of the usually hypocrisy from the people who come on here inciting hatred.

    While there have been a few questionable posts. The fact is that Brady was aiding a Paedophile by failing to tell parents of those being abused of what had occurred and the general cover up of the abuse. This was a disturbingly immoral choice by a man and an organisation who were supposed to be an authority on morality. And it endangered children as a result of their failures.

    So yes, I can't see how people can legitimately choose to follow a religious organisation that has engaged in cover ups of child abuse etc. And as well, Catholicism as an organisation regularly incites hatred, people who engage in homosexual behaviour are doomed to burn in hell alongside those who masturbate and fornicate (although they place particular emphasis on the homosexuality). But for some reason the Catholic Church endorsed cover-ups are perfectly acceptable by their logic and there was no fault on their part.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,819 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    So yes, I can't see how people can legitimately choose to follow a religious organisation that has engaged in cover ups of child abuse etc.

    +1.

    How can people continue to enroll their kids in an organisation like that? Wtf? :confused::confused::confused::confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    +1.

    How can people continue to enroll their kids in an organisation like that? Wtf? :confused::confused::confused::confused:

    They are doing is despite the failings of the church, when one takes away the human failings there are a lot of people on this planet who get a lot of positivity from their Catholic faith.
    Their faith is not based on human failings, it is based on fundamental beliefs that go above the clergy.
    This is why parents continue to teach their children the faith they have gotten a lot of good from. No Catholic is happy how the abuse was handled.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭mrsdewinter


    Odysseus wrote: »
    I will get a lot pf abuse for this, but in certain cases there are ethical questions to be considered. I have in the past reported sex offenders and may do so again if needed. Whilst in my HSE job I am required to [Childrens first act] in private practice I am not.

    What it comes down to for me is whether we are dealing with something in the past vs ongoing; additioinally, the subject's willingness and ability to change needs to be considered.

    A gent I was working with last year reported what you could call "playing doctors and nurses with his sister" when he was younger. He became unwell and was hospitalised, he told a psych nurse the same thing, the nurse reported him. After a year of being called in front of social workers it was deemed to be a non-starter. The point here is we need to be careful. This man was not more a sex offender than Barney [he had brough up a family since then, with no sexual thoughts towards his children], but he almost ended up on the sex offenders list.

    Anyway my point is reporting is not always clear cut. A chap I currently work with was abused repeatedly by his mother, should I report her? If I do my client will stop seeing me, resulting in his recovery being stopped.

    You are coming from a professional background with, I'm guessing, years of training and experience. Fr Brady was coming from a background of no particular expertise in psychological and/or sexual trauma.
    Surely a man working in a pastoral setting would have said to himself, 'Blimey, I'm in way over my head here - I'm not even sure that my line manager (the relevant bishop/head of the order) will know the correct course of action to take. Maybe I should take this to the RUC/ a health professional...'
    I know I'm guilty of projecting the values of 2012 onto a situation that occurred 37 years ago here, but how disconnected from your own humanity would you have to be for that impulse not to strike you every once in a while over the years that followed? Say, when Smyth's name began cropping up again and again?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,819 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Min wrote: »
    They are doing is despite the failings of the church, when one takes away the human failings there are a lot of people on this planet who get a lot of positivity from their Catholic faith.
    Their faith is not based on human failings, it is based on fundamental beliefs that go above the clergy.
    This is why parents continue to teach their children the faith they have gotten a lot of good from. No Catholic is happy how the abuse was handled.

    All the teachings are decided by people who protected child rapists.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    All the teachings are decided by people who protected child rapists.

    So when I was taught the teachings of the ten commandments it was a person who abused minors that decided it?
    Who was this person and what was their role in the abuse?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Min wrote: »
    They are doing is despite the failings of the church, when one takes away the human failings there are a lot of people on this planet who get a lot of positivity from their Catholic faith.
    Their faith is not based on human failings, it is based on fundamental beliefs that go above the clergy.
    This is why parents continue to teach their children the faith they have gotten a lot of good from. No Catholic is happy how the abuse was handled.

    There are a lot of people who get positivity from their catholic faith. This is a good thing. That doesn't mean they should stand up for catholic leaders who are defending and covering up vile crimes. In any other organisation, members would be calling for the leaders responsible to be removed. They can stand by their faith without standing by the criminals within the organisation.
    Also child rape and covering it up is not a human failing, it's a disgusting crime. There's fuck all human about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,819 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Min wrote: »
    So when I was taught the teachings of the ten commandments it was a person who abused minors that decided it?
    Who was this person and what was their role in the abuse?

    The protectors of child rapists who currently run the RC church decide that the ten commandments are part of their teachings.

    Duh. :rolleyes:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    There are a lot of people who get positivity from their catholic faith. This is a good thing. That doesn't mean they should stand up for catholic leaders who are defending and covering up vile crimes. In any other organisation, members would be calling for the leaders responsible to be removed. They can stand by their faith without standing by the criminals within the organisation.
    Also child rape and covering it up is not a human failing, it's a disgusting crime. There's fuck all human about it.

    I think you will find humans are the people who do the crimes, therefore human failing. It is not our cats or dogs that are failing us by abusing us.


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