Is BJJ a team sport

Doug Cartel · 04-05-2012 2:16pm

Chris89 wrote: »

So in a non literal sense, would you agree that bjj is a team sport?

Only if you want to say that every sport is a team sport.

EnjoyChoke · 04-05-2012 2:17pm

Doug Cartel wrote: »

I've done TKD/kickboxing, muay Thai, judo and BJJ. MT was the only one of those where they didn't emphasise the importance of being part of a team, but I have a feeing that was largely because the class was just starting up and was run by inexperienced guys who didn't yet know how to get the most out of people.

(That class wasn't in Ireland in case any of the MT guys reading this think I'm talking about you.)

Surely there's a sliding scale of team ethos though, or do you think that all combat sports (MT aside) have the same degree of teamship regardless?

EnjoyChoke · 04-05-2012 2:23pm

Spideog Rua wrote: »

What's the point of the poll?

It's directly linked to IBJJF head quarters, who will, depending on the results, alter the global rule set of the sport.

Chris89 · 04-05-2012 2:27pm

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Only if you want to say that every sport is a team sport.

Athletics, skill sports like shooting, darts, golf, cue sports. Swimming, diving, motor sports (F1 arguably a team sport). These sports can all be trained to a certain extent alone.

Then we have actual team sports, football, rugby etc.

Combat sports, specifically jiu jitsu, are different because in order to compete succesfully you need to have a strong team to train with on a regular basis.

Spideog Rua · 04-05-2012 2:32pm

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

It's directly linked to IBJJF head quarters, who will, depending on the results, alter the global rule set of the sport.

LOL. I just think it's a little pointless and in its present form adds nothing to the discussion. Maybe it could be made more worthwhile by expanding it to more categories it to ask:

-BJJ competitor. Team sport.
-BJJ competitor. Individual sport.
-BJJ practitioner. Team sport.
-BJJ practitioner. Individual sport.
-Non BJJ practitioner. Team sport.
-Non BJJ practitioner. Individual sport.

That would give a view as to what active competitors think versus people who just train a few times a week versus people who don't train BJJ. Obviously the sample size would be small, but it would be more interesting than now. It might also expand the discussion to how we see ourselves and how others see us. For example the closing of brackets is seen as rediculous by non BJJ people but not so much within BJJ.

Doug Cartel · 04-05-2012 2:40pm

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

Surely there's a sliding scale of team ethos though, or do you think that all combat sports (MT aside) have the same degree of teamship regardless?

I think it may vary from club to club, and I am guessing that it may vary within a specific style as much as it varies across all styles. I haven't been involved in enough clubs to really test this out though.

Judo would be the only one where I'd trained enough to become deeply entrenched in more than one club, and I can tell you that it varies but that a judo club pretty much lives or dies on how well you can foster a sense of team spirit.

In BJJ I was only in one club for any significant amount of time, and the rest just for a few classes, so I can't say anything too definitive. There definitely seemed to be quite a bit of variance in the amount of team spirit from place to place, but I will concede that it could just be that I wasn't going to see it until they warmed to me. In the place I did train, there was pretty much an attitude of you're joining the club/team vs the other places where you were just taking a class.

Doug Cartel · 04-05-2012 2:44pm

Chris89 wrote: »

Combat sports, specifically jiu jitsu, are different because in order to compete succesfully you need to have a strong team to train with on a regular basis.

I've heard people involved in track sports saying that you need a strong team to succeed.

Chris89 · 04-05-2012 2:52pm

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Chris89 wrote: »

Combat sports, specifically jiu jitsu, are different because in order to compete succesfully you need to have a strong team to train with on a regular basis.

I've heard people involved in track sports saying that you need a strong team to succeed.

Ok, you've also heard people involved in bjj telling you it's a team sport.

cowzerp · 04-05-2012 3:13pm

Chris89 wrote: »

Ok, you've also heard people involved in bjj telling you it's a team sport.

When i Boxed i represented my team, so is Boxing a team sport, i also needed my team to train and spar and improve, same in MMA

Barry.Oglesby · 04-05-2012 5:48pm

What if I play football but don't engage with the team. Kinda like Jamie Foxxxx in Any Given Sunday. Would that make football an individual sport?

I'm confused now.

Barry.Oglesby · 04-05-2012 5:53pm

Maybe the q should be

"in BJJ, do you think you require the support of a team to succeed?"

If answer yes to that though doubtless there are lone wolves out there who do well without the cheem.

slammer187 · 04-05-2012 8:07pm

I wouldn't be half as good as I am without a full team, so how is it an individual sport?

yomchi · 05-05-2012 12:13am

No end of reported posts here lads so drop that old subject it's been done to death. Keep the thread on topic please or there'll be all sorts of wild infractions gettin' fcuked about.

Thanks

cowzerp · 05-05-2012 12:15am

Chris89 wrote: »

I yield.

BJJ is an individual sport because so is running and boxing and I have no loyalty to my teammates.

Ive been found out.

I would personally not compare running to Bjj but certainly Boxing as both are individual sports in competition that require team mates to spar/learn from.

Plus I don't think he mentioned Boxing or running either.

Chris89 · 05-05-2012 12:24am

cowzerp wrote: »

I would personally not compare running to Bjj but certainly Boxing as both are individual sports in competition that require team mates to spar/learn from.

Plus I don't think he mentioned Boxing or running either.

This is my point, it would seem we agree. It is a sport, which requires a team. in a non literal sense it is a team sport.

After 6 pages it turns out were not so different after all

cowzerp · 05-05-2012 12:29am

Chris89 wrote: »

This is my point, it would seem we agree. It is a sport, which requires a team. in a non literal sense it is a team sport.

After 6 pages it turns out were not so different after all

I think you'll find I said that from my 1st post!

I actually think most are saying the same too so we're all alike

Chris89 · 05-05-2012 12:42am

Unfortunately the good people of the public would say otherwise if the poll is anything to go by

Dermighty · 05-05-2012 3:16am

Get a room!

:P

Kieran81 · 05-05-2012 11:22am

you can only develope as well as who you're training with, learning from more experienced guys and also less experienced, so from that angle its clearly important to be part of a team , competitions are only one aspect of bjj , my opinion is if you dont want to compete against teammates then dont compete in same division or dont compete at all . adcc nogi had all teammates matched upin the first round last year to avoid closing out if i remember correctly , excellent idea , if i was to win a comp with a teammate in it , the least i would expect is he'd have the courtesy to make me earn it

Chris89 · 05-05-2012 6:24pm

Kieran81 wrote: »

you can only develope as well as who you're training with, learning from more experienced guys and also less experienced, so from that angle its clearly important to be part of a team , competitions are only one aspect of bjj , my opinion is if you dont want to compete against teammates then dont compete in same division or dont compete at all . adcc nogi had all teammates matched upin the first round last year to avoid closing out if i remember correctly , excellent idea , if i was to win a comp with a teammate in it , the least i would expect is he'd have the courtesy to make me earn it

As has been discussed the adcc has prize money and doesn't allow close outs. Other tournaments don't pay an do allow close outs.

Kieran81 · 06-05-2012 1:53pm

Chris89 wrote: »

As has been discussed the adcc has prize money and doesn't allow close outs. Other tournaments don't pay an do allow close outs.

so the whole "not fighting teammates" stance dissapears when there's money on the table ?

Chris89 · 06-05-2012 3:16pm

Kieran81 wrote: »

so the whole "not fighting teammates" stance dissapears when there's money on the table ?

When there is money on the table, they are not allowed to close out the brackets. This is the case for the ADCC anyway maybe there are some tournaments which pay and allow closeouts.

Nice try at twisting my words though.

Kieran81 · 06-05-2012 6:55pm

Chris89 wrote: »

Nice try at twisting my words though.

certainly wasn't my intention

just find its bizarre that at one tournament guys will step on to the mats and have a match and others they'll refuse , while not agreeing with it , i would respect guys who stuck to their guns and said no thanks i'll not enter your comp i'd prefer not to go against my teammate , but when they dont mind doing it when they're being paid i dont think they should have a problem doing it at comps where they're not but where organisers , sponsors invest and people pay admission in

Chris89 · 06-05-2012 7:10pm

Kieran81 wrote: »

Chris89 wrote: »

Nice try at twisting my words though.

certainly wasn't my intention

just find its bizarre that at one tournament guys will step on to the mats and have a match and others they'll refuse , while not agreeing with it , i would respect guys who stuck to their guns and said no thanks i'll not enter your comp i'd prefer not to go against my teammate , but when they dont mind doing it when they're being paid i dont think they should have a problem doing it at comps where they're not but where organisers , sponsors invest and people pay admission in

Because obviously they compete individually and do their best no matter what the competition, if they are allowed the opportunity to close out a division with their teammates, then they will. If they haven't got this opportunity, they won't.

I would love to close out a big tournament with one of my teammates, that to me is far greater than a personal victory. To say that you and your teammate are better than everyone in the division, who cares which one of us is better.

Stephen_King · 06-05-2012 7:37pm

Kieran81 wrote: »

certainly wasn't my intention

just find its bizarre that at one tournament guys will step on to the mats and have a match and others they'll refuse , while not agreeing with it , i would respect guys who stuck to their guns and said no thanks i'll not enter your comp i'd prefer not to go against my teammate , but when they dont mind doing it when they're being paid i dont think they should have a problem doing it at comps where they're not but where organisers , sponsors invest and people pay admission in

The whole closing out thing has never made sense to me, but once major coin comes into play in any sport morals tend to go out the window. I can understand not competing against against a teammate in MMA for obvious reasons, but in a grappling tournament at the very least they should put on an exhibition if they've decided who's going to win.

SDTimeout · 06-05-2012 7:52pm

Kieran81 wrote: »

certainly wasn't my intention

just find its bizarre that at one tournament guys will step on to the mats and have a match and others they'll refuse , while not agreeing with it , i would respect guys who stuck to their guns and said no thanks i'll not enter your comp i'd prefer not to go against my teammate , but when they dont mind doing it when they're being paid i dont think they should have a problem doing it at comps where they're not but where organisers , sponsors invest and people pay admission in

We don't know if they mind competing or not, the point is if there is prize money up for grabs they are not allowed to close it out.

This was a good thread but there will be guys who train twice a week and compete twice a year and they will have their mind set. Which will be totally different to a guy who Chris who is doing BJJ full time and competes regularly.

I can understand both sides and have no problem with either, let's just be happy that in our sport we only argue over stuff like this! Instead of going on 2 day long death courses for 500 euro.

Dyr · 06-05-2012 8:25pm

It doesn't matter how many hours someone trains, the correct answer will still that BJJ is not a team sport.

Mellor · 07-05-2012 3:18am

Chris89 wrote: »

This is my point, it would seem we agree. It is a sport, which requires a team. in a non literal sense it is a team sport.

You do you keep harping on about a non literal sense. In a non-literal sense you could describe it as all manner of things. It means nothing.

I just don't get how you can all agree that you train with your team, and compete as an individual. And that it is a individual sport by definition.
And then add you on the non-literal team sport nonsense. Why/ For the sake of arguement.

I would love to close out a big tournament with one of my teammates, that to me is far greater than a personal victory. To say that you and your teammate are better than everyone in the division, who cares which one of us is better.

Say there was 3 of your team in the division.
You were subbed in the first round and were eliminatd. but the other two won all their matches and closed out the division.
Do you feel like you are part of the winners? or the training partner of the winners.
That sums it up for me really. The team mentality only exists in certain areas, ultimately, you judge yourself on your own performance.

RJJIreland · 07-05-2012 6:40am

Say there was 3 of your team in the division.
You were subbed in the first round and were eliminatd. but the other two won all their matches and closed out the division.
Do you feel like you are part of the winners? or the training partner of the winners.
That sums it up for me really. The team mentality only exists in certain areas, ultimately, you judge yourself on your own performance.[/QUOTE]

You can only enter 2 from each school in an IBJJf tournament. So this is an irrelevant point.

It's pretty simple guys, team mates won't fight each other when the rules say they don't have to.

When they say they have to, they will.

Mellor · 07-05-2012 8:05am

You can only enter 2 from each school in an IBJJf tournament. So this is an irrelevant point.

It's a hypothetical situation to highlight the so called non literal team sport.
It could be as simple as a few local clubs getting together. So, it's not irrelevant. Besides, the question was retorical really.

It's pretty simple guys, team mates won't fight each other when the rules say they don't have to.

Whats that got to do with my post? I didn't say there was anythign wrong with closing out brackets.

It's pretty simple. It's an individual sport.
If people choose not to fight when they don't have to, thats fine. But it doesn't change the fact that you compete as an individual.

Is BJJ a team sport

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