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Anyone have a daily driver Nissan Leaf?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭knifey_spoonie


    Whats the claimed range of a Leaf and what the real world most people get ??


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Malik Inexpensive Reforestation


    Whats the claimed range of a Leaf and what the real world most people get ??

    The claimed range by Nissan is about 100 miles actual range varies between 60-110.

    I personally believe range could be improved by ONLY applying regen to braking by the brake pedal and not by lifting off the throttle.

    Costing is more efficient then regen. You would be quiet surprised how far you can go in neutral!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭knifey_spoonie


    The claimed range by Nissan is about 100 miles actual range varies between 60-110.

    I personally believe range could be improved by ONLY applying regen to braking by the brake pedal and not by lifting off the throttle.

    Costing is more efficient then regen. You would be quiet surprised how far you can go in neutral!

    Okay, so your previous post about Audi/Fiat/All Manufacturers not being able to reached claimed MPG is a MOOT point, do you agree??


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Malik Inexpensive Reforestation


    Okay, so your previous post about Audi/Fiat/All Manufacturers not being able to reached claimed MPG is a MOOT point, do you agree??

    That wasn't the debate, that is a well known fact.

    I was however talking about the progression from 8 hours charging to 30 mins in a year is quiet a substantial improvement to e.v's and no ice has had had any major improvement in such a short period of time.

    Faster charging is more important than 400 miles range because faster charging offers the greatest benefit to the driver rather than carry around a very large heavy and much more expensive battery for the occasional long trip.

    More range will be available with 2015 Leaf with NMC battery.

    Remember an electric car with 300 miles range is available with the tesla model S, but at a huge cost, but by all means pay for such a battery if that is what you think you need, that's my opinion on it.

    I can guarantee that if people had the choice of a 150, 250 or 350 mile range car and 5 min charging, I bet most people will choose the 150 mile range and 5 min charging to keep cost down! That is the way I would like to see electrc cars offered, when production ramps up and battery costs drop. It makes no sense to have 300 mile range if you can charge in 5 mins for 150 miles range and 150 miles range is not that far away!


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Malik Inexpensive Reforestation


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    To the people who are willing to spend 25k on a new electric car. I dont want to spend that money, I`ll buy a car for 1-2k and pay for the petrol. 20k buys you alot of petrol.

    The zoe will cost 16,500 Euro's and battery rental + electricity works out around the same as a 55 mpg car.

    If you do a lot of driving a car that costs 1-2k is not always going to last long, so you may need to change your car more frequently, so in the end the cost may end up the same. Add up the maintenance too!

    I would rather buy a decent car and drive it for a few years and pay less for fuel.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    Nonsense just because a car is cheap it doesn't mean it wont last. Plenty of people here on the forum including myself do it. Whats the rent on the battery 70e a month? Thats more than I spend on petrol a month.

    My daily commuting machine is a 17 year old Ducati, so I don't put down old machines! However being able to last doesn't mean they can't potentially cost a lot to maintain as well. Some will be low maintenance, others won't, in this country at least older cars haven't been looked after. I've met people in this country who thought it was a great saving that they got away without servicing their car for 2 or 3 years. Before the Leaf, last 3 vehicles I bought were all bought in London. Flight over and ferry back the same day.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Malik Inexpensive Reforestation


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    Nonsense just because a car is cheap it doesn't mean it wont last. Plenty of people here on the forum including myself do it. Whats the rent on the battery 70e a month? Thats more than I spend on petrol a month.

    Holy crap ? 75 a month ? that's nearly our weekly fuel bill!

    But you live in the Dublin, so I can only assume you can take a bus, luas most places or cycle. Nice!

    So yeah a 2k car might last at that rate but not at the mileage we have to clock up!

    Lets face it, most people in towns and cities throughout the country could use their cars far less than they do but they like comfort and are paying a high price for it!

    But the debate is more about a new car V Leaf V Zoe new and the Zoe being the cheapest E.V yet, actually the Twizy is probably the cheapest. But that's a different league, but still capable.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Malik Inexpensive Reforestation


    My daily commuting machine is a 17 year old Ducati, so I don't put down old machines! However being able to last doesn't mean they can't potentially cost a lot to maintain as well. Some will be low maintenance, others won't, in this country at least older cars haven't been looked after. I've met people in this country who thought it was a great saving that they got away without servicing their car for 2 or 3 years. Before the Leaf, last 3 vehicles I bought were all bought in London. Flight over and ferry back the same day.

    Yes it is hard to get a car that has been looked after and that has not being clocked in this country.

    It depends a lot on the mileage you do. I like having a more modern car if I can than an older one, I could afford a better one if I hadn't large fuel bills to pay.

    That's why when electric cars become available at a decent price, that will be my next purchase, simply because by that time it will probably be time to change anyway and I would rather the option that my money go into a car than on tax on fuel. I would rather choose where to spend my money and not have the Government dictate that for me!

    Why should I drive an old car because fuel costs too much ?

    Why would I buy an older car when I don't know if it's being looked after ? an e.v simply won't have most of the maintenance issues, no oil to change, no belts, plugs etc


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Bigus


    The leaf has no monthly battery rental cost unlike Renault afaik .

    Just looking at the scenarios brought up by various posters here I can see a big loss of motoring revenue to the Irish government in the medium term by the take up of evs , and this wil have big impact on other taxation ,

    unless of course they start penalising ev in future :eek:

    but , like rowing back on the low co2 tax this is going to be hard to do for the gov.

    Also what's to stop retro fitting of modern electric kits to older cars with ice removed to produce a tax efficient low cost compromise ?;)


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Malik Inexpensive Reforestation


    Bigus wrote: »
    The leaf has no monthly battery rental cost unlike Renault afaik .

    Just looking at the scenarios brought up by various posters here I can see a big loss of motoring revenue to the Irish government in the medium term by the take up of evs , and this wil have big impact on other taxation ,

    unless of course they start penalising ev in future :eek:

    but , like rowing back on the low co2 tax this is going to be hard to do for the gov.

    Also what's to stop retro fitting of modern electric kits to older cars with ice removed to produce a tax efficient low cost compromise ?;)


    The leaf costs 30,000 to buy, the Zoe 16,500

    Battery rental and electricity works out about the same, maybe cheaper than a car that can get a real 55 mpg per tank.

    You can indeed convert any car to electric, however it wouldn't be as efficient and you can't put the batteries under the floor like in a proper e.v.

    The biggest thing is, you won't get your hands on the good batteries like in the leaf or Zoe, not a chance in hell. But if you only want 20-30 miles then it is possible. Using LiFeP04 batteries.

    As batteries improve and get smaller it will be even more possible to convert older cars, but you won't be able to charge as fast because I doubt the esb would let you near 40,000 watts with an uncertified e.v! :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    The zoe will cost 16,500 Euro's and battery rental + electricity works out around the same as a 55 mpg car.

    If you do a lot of driving a car that costs 1-2k is not always going to last long, so you may need to change your car more frequently, so in the end the cost may end up the same. Add up the maintenance too!

    I would rather buy a decent car and drive it for a few years and pay less for fuel.

    You say it gets 55MPG ?
    Based on how many kilometers a month ?

    How much does it cost if you drive
    1250km / month
    200km / month
    3000km / month

    If your leasing something your usually losing money if you don't drive that much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Bigus


    The leaf costs 30,000 to buy, the Zoe 16,500



    As batteries improve and get smaller it will be even more possible to convert older cars, but you won't be able to charge as fast because I doubt the esb would let you near 40,000 watts with an uncertified e.v! :D


    I beg to differ

    bmw2.jpg


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Malik Inexpensive Reforestation


    Bigus wrote: »
    I beg to differ

    bmw2.jpg

    Don't torment me, more info wanted! EV porn! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Ballyroe7


    Did anyone buy a nissan leaf? Am thinking of getting one.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Malik Inexpensive Reforestation


    Ballyroe7 wrote: »
    Did anyone buy a nissan leaf? Am thinking of getting one.

    Well I would hang on and wait for the Zoe, the Leaf has being reduced to 25,000 and Zoe will have 2 years free battery rental at absolute massive cost to Renault. I've no idea how they will get their money back unless there is something going on we don't know about ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    Ballyroe7 wrote: »
    Did anyone buy a nissan leaf? Am thinking of getting one.

    My wife and I bought one, we love it. PM if you want to ask a question or just do a search under my name, I've posted lots already about my Leaf ownership experience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭extremetaz


    Ballyroe7 wrote: »
    Did anyone buy a nissan leaf? Am thinking of getting one.

    We have one - 146km round trip commute daily. It's the business. Wouldn't go back to commuting on ICE. Gorgeous car to drive too.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Malik Inexpensive Reforestation


    extremetaz wrote: »
    We have one - 146km round trip commute daily. It's the business. Wouldn't go back to commuting on ICE. Gorgeous car to drive too.

    At what speed can you achieve this, is it on one charge ? With A/C on, Heat etc ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Bigus


    At what speed can you achieve this, is it on one charge ? With A/C on, Heat etc ?

    I'd say its charged at both ends = simples


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    Bigus wrote: »
    I beg to differ

    bmw2.jpg
    the bmer looks class fair play for converting it into ev.
    But Can someone elaborate here whats the point of buying a leaf or any other type of EV when they cost above 25k euro,when theres so many minuses to it then benefits,unless you are some green peace army member whats the point ? you could easily pick up 6-10y old Mercedes or bmw and still have 10k left in pocket for taxes insurance to last you at least 5 years and enough money for daily petrol,while driving in stylish car with,powerful engine and no worries runing out of juice or thinking every longer trip will i make it to the next point ,should i use A/c should i decrease my speed and other crap while driving micra look alike.I said micra because every time i seen leaf passing i tough it was micra takes a while to notice a difference.Probably went off topic but is it really worth buying ev so early in production,when you can pick up corolla 97 1.3l for 700quid that gonna drive for another 300k miles without hassle if your so tight A$$ for money or is it the need to have plate 12D?Sorry again if this is off topic.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭September1


    There are also servicing costs, which in case of older luxury cars could be well above 1000E per visit and result in wasted time. It seems that many posters find 20 minute recharges rather long and yet they forgot to count time spend on dealing with oil pumps, exhaust systems, clutches, gearboxes, timing belts, gaskets and so on. If one of those breaks on Thursday and you have to wait until next Tuesday to get right part, that is equivalent of 360 charges.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    September1 wrote: »
    There are also servicing costs, which in case of older luxury cars could be well above 1000E per visit and result in wasted time. It seems that many posters find 20 minute recharges rather long and yet they forgot to count time spend on dealing with oil pumps, exhaust systems, clutches, gearboxes, timing belts, gaskets and so on. If one of those breaks on Thursday and you have to wait until next Tuesday to get right part, that is equivalent of 360 charges.
    all cars require service and in rare cases cost might go up to 1000e if its gearbox or engine,but clutch and time belt can be done in matter of hours just book before bringing in the car and dont use dealers.As to EV i wonder whats the longevity of batteries and once they die off after 5 years who pays,how much ?and time spent at the pumps and services wont matter as one day you will be standing by the road waiting for AA to recharge you ;)
    Im not trying to ruing the image of ev;s but if you can afford to fork out over 20k for the car that you will have to drive as a 1l,might a swell get micra then,if modern phones cant cope without recharge once a day at least using extensively,then i could only imagine how fast the battery would drain,while having a foot on it on motorway doing 120 at least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭extremetaz


    At what speed can you achieve this, is it on one charge ? With A/C on, Heat etc ?

    We leave the climate control on and set to Auto for 18C the whole time - never gets turned off. So that heats/cools as appropriate.

    Average speed as reported by the car is about 42km/h, but that includes all the in traffic stuff so doesn't mean much really.

    On motorways we generally sit with the cruise on at 110km/h, in 100 zones we sit at the 100, in 80 zones we stay "with the traffic" (to be taken in the context of the fact that the old N4 is now an 80 :rolleyes:).

    We could do 120 on the motorway easily enough but it's nice to have the extra ~20km at the end that we have if we sit at 110 instead - and it really doesn't make much difference in morning/evening traffic anyway.

    As I mentioned in other threads, we charge at each end. It's a 73km commute and we usually arrive with about 50km left "in the tank" as it were.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭extremetaz


    scamalert wrote: »
    Probably went off topic but is it really worth buying ev so early in production

    Only if you're doing a lot of mileage in a regimental pattern which takes you close to charging stations and is within the one-way range at a maximum. :D

    Contingent on the above factors being met, then it's actually harder to justify not getting one than it is to do the opposite.

    I'm gone from €400+/month on petrol to €80 on electricity + an additional €70 on my finance arrangement --> net ~€260 to the good on my monthly outgoings.

    Am I "saving" money - no, I've extended my finance by 3.5 years so I'm catagorically not.

    However, despite this, I do have the price of the weeks groceries in my pocket every week, or the option to take the missus for a very nice meal every other week, or a weekend away every 6-8 weeks, without having to dread the reflection of any of the above on the impending credit card bill.

    OR - to put another spin on it - if we take that €260/month and stash it away for the next 5 years (duration of the finance), then it comes to €15k, against finance of €21k. So not really as nutty as it sounds after all. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    well i guess you proved one right point,that makes sense in buying one of these :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭September1


    scamalert wrote: »
    all cars require service
    I never said that EVs do not require mainetance, they still have components of regular cars that undergo fixing and services
    scamalert wrote:
    and in rare cases cost might go up to 1000e if its gearbox or engine,but clutch and time belt can be done in matter of hours just book before bringing in the car and dont use dealers.

    Huh, my experience with some non-dealer garages is very opposite - but you know that EVs cannot run out of electricty if used in specific way?. You look at some best case scenario for one car, and then some worst case scenario for other car.

    I was refering though not to usual service, which needs to be booked for EV as well, but failure of items that do not exist on EVs.There is some time and money saved there. EVs are here for over century so we have some indication that they might be more reliable mechanically as are not exposed to high temps, high pressure and couple other problems.


    As to EV i wonder whats the longevity of batteries and once they die off after 5 years who pays,how much ?
    Would they die after 5 years? I think that is a big unknown, and this is probably biggest risk in buying EV - as this is main cost. Of course Nissan would not share pricing but I would guesstimate that around 5k.
    and time spent at the pumps and services wont matter as one day you will be standing by the road waiting for AA to recharge you ;)
    I knew ICE cars that would break more often that people got stranded in EVs. Again you choose best case for ICE and worst case for EV. Why?
    Im not trying to ruing the image of ev;s but if you can afford to fork out over 20k for the car that you will have to drive as a 1l,might a swell get micra then,if modern phones cant cope without recharge once a day at least using extensively,then i could only imagine how fast the battery would drain,while having a foot on it on motorway doing 120 at least.
    Well, I think you might be biased. You seem to choosing worst use cases for EVs and then best cases for ICE. EVs in 2012 have quite limited number of use cases and that is made worse with only 4 being on the market. I guess that if you could afford, then it would be not optimal choice for you. Sometimes I get a feeling that everyone here hates ICE and in their head they try to replace it with EV and constantly look for reasons do so - they want more range, they want faster charging - then they would change. Why?! What is wrong with sound of engine, with smell of petrol?


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Malik Inexpensive Reforestation


    I said in another thread that if I can do my commute on one charge, I would save around 15,000 Euro's in 5 years in the Leaf over the Prius at 64 mpg between fuel costs and servicing.

    If you buy a golf 1.6 diesel it will cost you the same or more, and it will cost you the 15,000 or more to maintain and fuel.

    So which sounds better pay 25k for a leaf and save 15,000 or pay 26.690 for a dsg golf and loose 15,000 over 5 years ?

    By the way that's me saving 15,000 in the Prius at 64 mpg average, but anyone getting 45 mpg in a normal car average will spend 3000 more over the 5 years and 100,000 miles so would save 18,000 over the 5 years. that ain't half bad now is it ?


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