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Prime Time Special - Child Care in Ireland (No Downloads - Please Read Post #1)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Concerned123


    Giraffe are quite clearly not focused on the little ones and their welfare - They employed unqualified inexperienced and immature children to look after our kids purely to minimize their costs and maximize profits.MY husband and I were under the impression that our child was being cared or by a senior qualified professional. To think that my child may have been subjected to that kind of behaviour and treatment and the possible repercussions from this is terrifying - it seemed that strapping an infant that is barely walking to a chair sees to be the norm in Giraffe amongst other things which in my opinion should never have happened and should be dealt with seriously....Giraffe at this point need to close their doors and retrain and focus on opening a creche that is purely interested in the children and not the cash cow that it currently is - would not do them any harm to dig deep into the 14million profit from last year and employe some qualified professionals to care for our kids


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭SuperInfinity


    The children's faces were blurred anyway. The parents shouldn't have a choice in the matter, it's a matter of public concern.

    In fact I would be worried about parents who are so worried about risking "unsavoury types" seeing their children that they don't want such an important documentary to be shown. Do they also not let them out in public...?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Tom_Cruise


    Lets hope this is added to Netflix in the next update.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,909 ✭✭✭Neeson


    Well the amount if people on here complaining that they missed it you'd wonder!

    Somebody having it recorded at home is different to having it online unless you're going to invite the whole online population in to your home to view it when ever they feel like it. The parents have no doubt been through enough and their wishes should be respected. How you like footage of you child being abused like that online?


    But they can't be identified and the parents don't need to keep looking at it if they don't want. As I said they're all just blurry lumps shuffling around the place, crying.

    They're all the same. Only the parents would be able to pick out their own child among that crowd.


  • Registered Users Posts: 376 ✭✭Ozzy


    Appalled at some of the shameful behaviour shown. Absolutely abhorrent and ignorant treatment toward children. The actual conduct of the people supposed to be caring for the children was deplorable.

    There were adults shown here who conducted themselves irresponsibly, selfishly, deceitfully, even cruelly in some instances, and should not be in supervision of children. Some of them seemed incapable of managing themselves emotionally. If a fully grown person cannot manage their own feelings, then how may they be responsible for those of a developing child?

    A child should never be thrown around like an object, shouted at with anger, forced to be alone, or forcefully punished; essentially, shown aversion for simply being a child. The child has no capacity to regulate himself in these stages of early emotion - that is supposed to be the responsibility of the adult, to notice the child's states and skilfully help the child to develop.

    Well done to the investigators and people behind the program for effectively showing people the reality, which includes how ineffective the HSE really is here.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭SuperInfinity


    Neeson wrote: »
    But they can't be identified and the parents don't need to keep looking at it if they don't want. As I said they're all just blurry lumps shuffling around the place, crying.

    They're all the same. Only the parents would be able to pick out their own child among that crowd.

    It's amazing how some people's first instinct is always to hide everything away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭KCC


    Our little girl was in a Giraffe creche for a period of eight months until end of 2012. Several of the incidences shown on this program have confirmed our suspicions and many of the issues we raised with management in Giraffe.1. On numerous occasions upon collecting our child we found her strapped in a chair this is mostly when we arrived unexpectedly 2. We collected her at 11am one morning because she was unwell to find her diary complete up to 5pm stating what a wonderful day she had all her food etc 3. In her diary the carer paid reference to the fact that she loved clapping her hands to music...my daughter didn't start doing that for at least anrother 3 months...4. On a different occasion we arrived to find severe bruising on her face and a black eye which we were told was a direct result of her trying to get up from the chair too fast and slamming her face off the table - which was similar to footage on program tonight whereby infant was strapped to chair and hit their head off table. 5 on numerous occasions her nappy wasn't changed and it appeared to be like that for hours 6. There were various times when the number of carers were inadequate or number of children left in the room and all the infants seemed to be moved around from day to day to suit shortages of staff. It got to the point where we had to search for our daughter in the evening because we didn't know what room she would be in. 7. the last room our daughter was put in was an extremely unpleasant experience 1 carer in particular was extremely loud and the other seemed ill-equipped to deal with infants. It got to the point that my child would start crying in the car when we went down the slip road on exit 16 and when I brought her to this particular room she was absolutely inconsolable - this went on for a number of days and when I raised it with a carer for the last time I was more or less given a lecture on how hard it is to mind so many children - can't take the pressure and having problems at home - this carer's behaviour actually really concerned me so much so that I thought she may have done herself some harm - I raised my concerns with the manager of the creche and requested my child be moved immediately and to possible get some help for the carer or at least supervise her. The next day we were confronted by the other carer stating that under pressure etc and arguing that they were doing nothing wrong - Once my child was moved from that room she was less upset and it has since come to my attention that both carers are still together in the same room and their behaviour remains the same. We are completely devastated as parents having witnessed that footage tonight and it seems to me that Giraffes policy is to employ anyone off the street without doing the necessary checks to ensure their competency -Whats even more distressing is that Giraffe have only suspended the employee that was abusive to the infants in their footage- that says a hell of a lot about their policy and their priorities!! We were paying almost 1000 per month for our daughter to be nourished and cared for and I would hate to think of what pain my little one endured it really is preying heavily on my mind - only hope it hasn't caused too much long term damage. RTE should be given a medal for highlighting these abuses and hopefully this will force the government and HSE to ensure that all carers are properly vetted and educated to a high standard with no exceptions

    Well done for being observant and for taking your child out of the place. What you noticed re: infrequent nappy changing is a real indicator of lack of care. I've heard so many similar stories. It might be time to start an online name and shame. If the HSE won't publish their inspection reports, a site should be set up where parents can post them. Parents with children in the facilities are entitled to request them from the provider and if they will not provide it, the parents can get them from the HSE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭Old_-_School


    I find it strange that in 2013 some people are still of the opinion that mothers shouldn't' work but instead stay at home minding the kids. Being at home isn't necessarily the best place - studies in the US, show that children that go to a quality childcare facility perform better academically, cognitively and socially than kids at home. Also, the rate of cot deaths and accidents that require hospital treatment are lower for kids in creches than in the home.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭womandriver


    Neeson wrote: »
    But they can't be identified and the parents don't need to keep looking at it if they don't want. As I said they're all just blurry lumps shuffling around the place, crying.

    They're all the same. Only the parents would be able to pick out their own child among that crowd.

    Those "blurry lumps" are somebody's child.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    No I don't . But I think it shouldn't. It's footage of children who can't protect themselves. I think it's indecent to upload such footage and that uploading images of children isn't acceptable, one's motives could be questioned.

    oh sweet jesus, may I ask your age? Grow up not everyone is a child molester, some people want to view this as words dont seem to do it justice, perhaps a screen shot or two would add to the image. seriously, your attitude might be lapped up on joe duffy, but not really too popular on boards... imo of course


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭womandriver


    The children's faces were blurred anyway. The parents shouldn't have a choice in the matter, it's a matter of public concern.

    In fact I would be worried about parents who are so worried about risking "unsavoury types" seeing their children that they don't want such an important documentary to be shown. Do they also not let them out in public...?

    Unless I'm mistaken, it was shown. Parents shouldn't have a choice? Ah Jesus. Goodnight.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,909 ✭✭✭Neeson


    Those "blurry lumps" are somebody's child.

    Indeed. But to us.

    The parents know them. Won't be too happy that they were battered around the place BUT we don't know them. We wouldn't pick that baby out who was flung around the place if he was walking down the street in a line of babies. BUT we don't like what happened to them either BUT they're just a few breathing humans to us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,923 ✭✭✭kearneybobs


    No I don't . But I think it shouldn't. It's footage of children who can't protect themselves. I think it's indecent to upload such footage and that uploading images of children isn't acceptable, one's motives could be questioned.

    It's indecent to upload the footage online but not indecent to show it on national TV and broadcast it INTERNATIONALLY online live?? Clearly RTE's motives need to be questioned if they are going to be airing it over the internet.

    I tuned into the tail end of the episode via the RTE player and saw the last 5 minutes of it and I'm living in the UK.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 marxo


    MrsD007 wrote: »
    I thought I'd stepped back into pre 1973 Ireland there for a second

    Sounds like you'd be in favour of re-introducing the Marriage Ban :rolleyes:

    I'm actually a very liberal person. I'm also very career driven, but I don't see how taking a few years off work to raise your child should be viewed negatively, especially in their formative years when they are at their most vulnerable.

    I wont have to worry about made up day reports, my toddler being strapped into a chair for 2 hours, being yelled at or items being viciously snapped out of his hands, isolated behind doors, the list from tonight's programme was endless. It was disgusting. Unfortunately you can never fully trust a stranger with your own child.

    Like I said before, even if these horrific abuses weren't happening in certain crèches, tonight's programme just hit home to me this conveyer belt style of child care, that in itself I found sickening. Doesn't seem right.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭womandriver


    oh sweet jesus, may I ask your age? Grow up not everyone is a child molester, some people want to view this as words dont seem to do it justice, perhaps a screen shot or two would add to the image. seriously, your attitude might be lapped up on joe duffy, but not really too popular on boards... imo of course

    It's footage of children not show ponies. I can see how an attitude of concern for rights of others might not be popular with you alright. Glad you can speak on behalf of the Boards population too. My age? Get over yourself.

    And if you wanted to see it that badly you would have recorded it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    The one common thread I notice in all of these horrendous situations in Ireland is that we place vulnerable people in the control of private organisations that have almost no accountability and expect nothing to go wrong.

    Childcare should really be run on a not-for-profit basis in a community setting with very open, transparent, well-regulated systems in place.

    Instead, we have private companies operating it for huge profits at huge cost to parents and the state with very poor regulation and limited transparency.

    ...

    Do we learn nothing?

    Go back a few years ago and we'd private religious institutions running various 'care' services with no transparency, limited regulation and what happened there? All worked out very well didn't it!?

    Even our public school 'system' (I use that term loosely) is outsourced i.e. the state pays the bills and a bunch of pretty much unaccountable private 'sponsors' run them.

    ...

    It's about time Ireland had a long hard look at how we do some of these things.

    You need:

    1) Proper regulation.
    2) Full transparency.
    3) Running public services in the public interest.
    4) Accountability!

    We seem to spend endless time and money writing reports, producing lovely documents, brochures, websites (fully bilingually of course) and creating all sorts of wonderful QANGOs with lovely logos.

    It all becomes an academic exercise and the basic standards - transparency, accountability, ensuring the public interest is served at all times etc just go out the window.

    ...

    If we don't reform this stuff it's just more and more of the same:

    Abuse of vulnerable people.
    Abuse of power
    Financial disasters due to poor regulation / allowing vested interests to run amuck

    It seems we just took some broken model of how to run the country and then just applied the 'rinse & repeat' approach.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 marxo


    KCC wrote: »
    It's not about profiting from a job. I hope my kids go to college and make use of their education by having a good career. It's not a matter of children being unhappy in all creches. I'm sure there are good ones out there! Also, all the research indicates that two years of quality preschool education benefits a child enormously so they should be in a preschool before they go to school. Notice I said "education", not "childcare".

    I don't have my child in a creche by the way but I'm lucky to have a choice.

    There is also research to indicate that children benefit enormously from being at home with their mothers and should not attend school before the age of 5.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    When I started to watch this, I expected to see some shocking, abhorrent and disgusting behavior but nothing prepared me for that sight of that women throwing the toddlers around like rag dolls on the mats.

    I can stomach a lot of things but when I saw that I literally covered my eyes and shouted "Stop" at the TV.

    Absolutely criminal. I hope she gets what she deserves.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Tom_Cruise


    It's footage of children not show ponies. I can see how an attitude of concern for rights of others might not be popular with you alright. Glad you can speak on behalf of the Boards population too. My age? Get over yourself.

    And if you wanted to see it that badly you would have recorded it.

    I wanted to see it, but missed it unfortunately.

    What am i supposed to record it on, a potato? Not everyone has a fancy sky box.

    RTE issued a statement TODAY stating that they would not be showing it on the player, well thanks a lot RTE, from now on any programme that im planning on watching on the player ill just check your website to make sure that you've not just gone and cancelled it, although you are able to show all the other crap no problem.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    And if you wanted to see it that badly you would have recorded it.

    didnt hear about it til i saw it being spoken about here


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    The worst thing about this is the kids involved are so young they can't even tell their parents what was going on as they can't talk yet.

    Without that Prime Time reporter, we'd have probably never heard these stories.

    Apart from the physical danger the kids were being put in by being throw around like that, who knows what kind of emotional and psychological trauma that could cause!?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭womandriver


    Tom_Cruise wrote: »
    I wanted to see it, but missed it unfortunately.

    What am i supposed to record it on, a potato? Not everyone has a fancy sky box.

    RTE issued a statement TODAY stating that they would not be showing it on the player, well thanks a lot RTE, from now on any programme that im planning on watching on the player ill just check your website to make sure that you've not just gone and cancelled it, although you are able to show all the other crap no problem.

    Only responding to the fancy sky box comment, it made me laugh. I don't have sky nor a fancy sky box. I have a telly/VHS combi thing that I've had since I started college in 2000. It's not fancy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭womandriver


    didnt hear about it til i saw it being spoken about here

    Then you must have had your head in the sand all last week.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭SuperInfinity


    Then you must have had your head in the sand all last week.

    Believe it or not you can live a meaningful existence while ignoring most Irish news media, in fact probably better off most of the time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭womandriver


    Believe it or not you can live a meaningful existence while ignoring most Irish news media, in fact probably better off most of the time.

    Until you miss something you might like to have seen :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,596 ✭✭✭anniehoo


    Then you must have had your head in the sand all last week.

    Patronising much??!! :rolleyes:

    I'm galled at the fact RTE have shown it on Primtime yet have refused to put it on Player.


  • Registered Users Posts: 534 ✭✭✭neaideabh


    I'm sorry... programmes like that tonight show what we have become! I was disgusted with the first creche alright and how that C()nt forced the children to the ground for their "nap". She should be hung and quartered! It was an absolute disgrace. Keeping the children belted into their chairs for 2 hours was also inhuman. That creche should be shut down.

    However, the second creche, while it may not have fully complied with regulations was not so/as? bad. I thought that RTE PT were just adding fuel to the fire. I thought, in parts, that they were just nitpicking. The woman narrating the report did so in a patronising way. Showing regulation breaches in the form of the carers checking their phones and quoting the regulation breached was a bit much. What young mother doesn't be checking their phone regulary these days while the child is playing somewhere in the house. They were checking their phones while all the children was infront of them.

    A child in a cot that was in a room "2 doors away" that breached a certain regulation was a bit much! The child was in a cot that they would struggle to get out off. I think that the distance (which was 2 doors away) between the child and the carer is not a big issue so long as the child was being checked on every 15/20 minutes. The food requirements issue that the chef highlighted would be a cause for concern, however, if there was a child who did have a particular dietary requirement, I am sure that the staff (including) the chef would be well aware of it and act accordingly. I didn't pay attention to every part of the show, but I heard them discussing child developmental psychology! What a load of balls... The children are among other children and mixing with them. That's the way we had it. They were not being abused (bar arguably the first creche in the programme) I am sure that the kids would not be intellectually or mentally disadvantaged from the creche!

    I think that what was highlighted in this programme tonight was that regulations were breached which may indicate that it is over regulated!? The stringent regulations add cost to the running of a creche. I understand the need for regulations, but maybe if there was a simpler approach, costs could be reduced and more qualified professional carers could be hired.

    Parents have a responsibility too. I know they pay good money for this service but with whats at stake (their childrens welfare), they should raise any concerns that they have. For example, parents are always coming and going from the creche collecting or dropping off their children... so there is plenty of opportunity to spot malpractice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19 shell53


    Just a quick observation. When i was pickn courses for cao in 2003 mostly those who didnt study much who barley passed the leaving. Now i know some gitls that studied and picked mont courses in mary i but the majority picking childcare plcs were the roughest of rough. I wouldn want to sit beside them for a class nevermind entrust a child in their care. Sectir needs to move into the education dept as soon as


  • Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭robclay26


    shell53 wrote: »
    Just a quick observation. When i was pickn courses for cao in 2003 mostly those who didnt study much who barley passed the leaving. Now i know some gitls that studied and picked mont courses in mary i but the majority picking childcare plcs were the roughest of rough. I wouldn want to sit beside them for a class nevermind entrust a child in their care. Sectir needs to move into the education dept as soon as


    Yep, I would agree


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  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭soap1978


    Where we not all treated worse than this in schools in 80s and years before that,i was in first class in the 80s and to be pull by the ear,hit with a cane and slapped was normal,i would of be around 6 at the time.It was never made a big deal of and never spoke about it, as it was normal way of going on.


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