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sex...why?

  • 11-05-2004 2:17pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭


    why can't I say hi to a girl on the street or start talking to one without it being drenched in 5 billion contradicting, codified sexual signals and why can't a girl just strike up a conversation with a lad somewhere without 'oh my god is she coming on to me..etc' or any of the infinite related microscopic nuances that echo off into the void, can sex not just stop rising it's banal head even once... seriously you guys.... can't we evolve past this? or at least work out a system of pinafore or something...


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 867 ✭✭✭l3rian


    because thats how our brain works

    also, girls are more cautious of strangers, but are a lot more approachable if you are co-workers, in the same gym or club, drunk, or have something obvious in common


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭bizmark


    6 billion humans say this system works quite well tbh


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    Originally posted by carpocrates
    or at least work out a system of pinafore or something...
    ROFL, especially if it's three little maids you're talking to. I think you meant semaphore. ;)

    adam


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 867 ✭✭✭l3rian


    signal flags? yes thats a gOOd idea


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭carpocrates


    semaphore, that was it, knew it seemed wrong when i was writing it.
    So what's pinafore, other than the obvious...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,208 ✭✭✭✭aidan_walsh


    Originally posted by carpocrates

    So what's pinafore, other than the obvious...

    pinafore_poster.jpg

    He is an Englishman!
    For he himself has said it,
    And it's greatly to his credit,
    That he is an Englishman!


    :D:D:D:D


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 24,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    Also an apron....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭pork99




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,446 ✭✭✭✭amp


    There's always the recreational part of sex which I vaguely remember being quite fun.

    If chatting up people was easy (for people who aren't fabulously wealthy/famous/good looking) then I'm fairly sure the world would be a much more boring place.

    hmmm this is more of Personal Issues kind of thing but sure we'll hang to it for the moment. It's not like Humanities cup is overflowething at the mo. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 448 ✭✭Agent Orange


    Originally posted by bizmark
    6 billion humans say this system works quite well tbh

    Even the two billion who live in misery?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭Commissar


    Originally posted by bizmark
    6 billion humans say this system works quite well tbh

    Shower o' muppets.:p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 914 ✭✭✭Specky


    Also an apron....

    Wearing an apron during sex....ooooooo saucy! Yet practical.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    Originally posted by amp
    hmmm this is more of Personal Issues kind of thing but sure we'll hang to it for the moment.

    no way ampie
    tis not a personal issue! it's an evolving issue or the lack there off...
    now if he had said that he doesn’t want to have sex with women, what’s wrong with me? Then it would be a PI….


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 6,265 CMod ✭✭✭✭MiCr0


    I'd like if people stuck to the topic - this isn't After Hours after all


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭simu


    Originally posted by carpocrates
    why can't I say hi to a girl on the street or start talking to one without it being drenched in 5 billion contradicting, codified sexual signals and why can't a girl just strike up a conversation with a lad somewhere without 'oh my god is she coming on to me..etc' or any of the infinite related microscopic nuances that echo off into the void, can sex not just stop rising it's banal head even once... seriously you guys.... can't we evolve past this? or at least work out a system of pinafore or something...

    I take it you're still a teenager?

    When you first get into flirting and sex and so on, you start seeing something you had never really paid attention to before all over the place and it gets a bit overwhelming. But usually, people get used to it and don't get embarassed about it quite as easily after a few years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 318 ✭✭qwertyphobia


    "why can't I say hi to a girl on the street or start talking to one without it being drenched in 5 billion contradicting, codified sexual signals "

    because we have been codified to send/read thoes signals

    You can't stop sending them out or noticing them, but you can stop worrying about them so much, why is so important to you?

    If you flirt with someone you don't have to marry them, you are just flirting. Consider it a social lubericant if everyone was harsh, abruate, rude and cold with each other swociety would suck and probably wouldn't have made it this far. Flirting and friendlyness sets up bonds between people and gets them to be nicer to each other without a quid pro quo return favour being expected.





    I like that term "Social lubericant" must see if I can find more opportunity to use it


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 5,945 ✭✭✭BEAT


    the original poster is right, I have said it so many times myself!
    I dont understand why when I go out it is so difficult to meet someone...unless the guy comes on to me strong or is creepy about it I wish they would talk to me! instead of making eye contact all night and that across the room flirt crap...They are usually with thier friends when this is going on so for a woman to walk up to a group of guys and try to talk to one of them its more intimidating.
    More men should just be a man and talk to the ladie if they want to...if she isnt interested then so what, that is life! we will never get anywhere by saying "i wish I had talked to that person" I certainly havnt given up and will attempt a conversation if I think he is interested, but if a guy is too much of a girl to talk to me then I dont want to be with him anyway, I (like most girls) want a man who knows what he wants and goes after it. And no, before the sarcasm starts, I dont mean serial killers,stalkers and the like.
    It's all about confidence guys and girls, and a great smile ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,638 ✭✭✭Iago


    So Beat, tell me about yourself? Do you come here often? What brings you out tonight?

    :D

    The problem isn't so much that men don't/won't/can't chat to women, it's more about perceptions. If a guy comes up to you in a (delete as appropriate) bar/club/street/shop, the general first reaction is what's he out to get?

    When you get past this and evolve into a conversation you may start to like him, and vice versa and who knows where it may go. Getting over that first hurdle is difficult though, you have to be confident but not arrogant, what can you say that isn't a line?

    I don't do this often but..

    I couldn't help noticing...

    Hi, would you like.....

    and even thought it isn't a line it sometimes gets taken up that way. I think you'll find that the confident guys are generally the ones that have nothing to lose, i.e. they are only looking for a one night thing and if you turn them down then they'll simply approach someone else. There's 500 girls in the club at least one of them will say yes and take them home!!

    Getting back to the original post, I think it's all about involuntary instincts, engrained in our subconcious are two main overriding genetic orders. Self-preservation and preservation of the human race, basic I know, but none the less true regardless. Society strives to harnass these orders, to constrict and restrict them, to force us to ignore and fight them at every opportunity. To a great extent this has been successful, we no longer rut in public or simply take what we desire the way our ancestors would have (well most of us don't anyway :D ) we have courtship rituals and we generally stick to monogamus (see I can't even spell it, much less do it :ninja: ) relationships, even though that flies in the face of our genetic build. So when we meet someone of the opposite sex, without even realising it we are measuring them, does she look healthy and fertile? Does he look strong enough to protect me and our children? This has evolved with society to include issues of wealth and prosperity, and so without voluntarily doing anything there is none the less a tension that appears as soon as you start talking to a member of the opposite sex, which does not dissipate until both parties decide that there is no attraction between them.

    I think...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭rcunning03


    I was talking to a girl from New York, and she was amazed that guys and girls in Ireland did'nt mingle and chat up more. Apparently in New York chatting someone up is as easy as asking "where did you get your tan ?". If they're not interested they say so straight away and then you move onto someone else with no hard feelings.

    USA! USA! USA!

    In the gym I'm in, the club discourage you from talking to people and I would'nt dream of staring a conversation with anyone in the place.

    But somehow the system we have here seems to work, your better off just not thinking about it and enjoying yourself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭casper-


    Originally posted by rcunning03
    I was talking to a girl from New York, and she was amazed that guys and girls in Ireland did'nt mingle and chat up more. Apparently in New York chatting someone up is as easy as asking "where did you get your tan ?". If they're not interested they say so straight away and then you move onto someone else with no hard feelings.

    USA! USA! USA!

    I'd take that with a pinch of salt .. you may well have just met someone really outgoing from NY (as you could have from any other place ....)

    Just don't start chanting "USA" 3x yet ;)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 650 ✭✭✭dr_manhattan


    Naw, he's completely on point.

    One of the things americans have that irish people (and english people) do not is enough confidence in themselves to be forthright and honest: "I like you", "want to go someplace quieter", and other phrases are simply honest.

    i find a lot of europeans, wishing to think highly of themselves as we europeans do, like to consider this as somehow crass and vulgar. This is pretty hilarious when you think about it - we all hang out in bars and clubs trying to pick each other up (by however subtle or unsubtle means) - yet somehow coming out and saying it like an adult is "vulgar"

    I'm perfectly prepared to chant USA, USA on this one. Like any nation, america has gotten some things really wrong - which means it's only fair to praise 'em when their right.

    However, you try that honest, up front **** over here and you get that "just who do you think you are" catholic up-tight attitude. It's sad, really:

    To the original poster, I would ask this: if you're not looking for sex, then why are you walking up to girls that you don't know? because, tbh, if you walk up to strange men, then sex rears it's "ugly head" just as often. It tends to happen when you walk up to people for no real reason - they wonder why you're doing it. When no other personal profit presents itself, they assume sex. They're usually right.

    I suspect, however, that like every organism on the planet, you actually *do* have sex on your mind, yet are in some kind of denial. Maybe I'm wrong.

    My advice would be to learn to enjoy the subtle and rich layered interaction that goes on between men and women, which after all, despite it's complexity and beauty, all boils down to "fancy a ****" LOL - because there is nowhere on ths planet that you will escape from sex.

    Sorry dude ;-)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭simu


    Meh, I don't know about the US. They're upfront about asking people out on dates but you have to go through the whole date ritual succesfully before you can have sex.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 650 ✭✭✭dr_manhattan


    "Meh, I don't know about the US. They're upfront about asking people out on dates but you have to go through the whole date ritual succesfully before you can have sex."

    Err....

    1) That's still better than here, where you have the non-upfront fiddley rubbish AND the "dating ritual" crap... I'm assuming by implication that you have had dates outside the US where you didn't have to go through the whole "dating ritual"...? Sex in the toilet before last buses LOL?

    In fact, now that I think of it: the ritual is half the point, no? Otherwise why not just get a hooker? Or go to dogging events or orgies? I mean, how quick and easy do you want sex to be exactly?

    "whole date ritual"... I wonder what you mean here. You make it sound like a chore to have to talk to someone before you **** 'em. In which case, why date at all? Even the most casual consensual non-paid for sex requires a few lines of conversation in my experience.

    2) Aside from the above flaws in your logic, well I'm sorry but you're wrong dude. Personal experience means I am 100% sure you're wrong: One of my visits to NYC it took me 2 hours to get laid. And that's including a 40min taxi ride from JFK. Not only that, but when you strike out with a girl (i.e. try and chat her up but fail) it's so much more matter-of-fact.

    As I say, I'm no huge fan of america, but I am a fan of giving credit where credit is due - and their society has a lot less bull**** and self effacing messing around than ours does. What passes for modesty in europe is, a lot of the time, just fear of being forthright: personally speaking i think it works.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭simu


    Well, yeah, the going out with sb before sleeping with them thing is fun but anytime that's happened to me with Americans, they've taken it all really seriously i.e. because we had a bit of a laugh together, we must be soulmates blah blah blah. Though maybe all the Americans I've met so far have been unusually soppy! Men from Europe are way less hassle coz they don't take the whole thing so seriously.

    I guess it helps being a woman though coz you're the one who usually gets to pick if sex is going to happen or not and if you just say outright to a guy that you want to have sex with them, they're usually pretty happy about it whereas for some reason, it's not acceptable for men to say that straight out - instead they have to tell you how beautiful you are (yawn) about a zillion times before you finally deign to let them touch you or so the current stereotype dictates.

    As for prostitutes, not that many male ones about and even if there were, I wouldn't pay for stuff I can get free. And orgies are out coz I don't like the idea of sex in front of other people - so much easier to go to a club or something, pick out a guy who looks appealing, get talking, get kissing, get to bed together!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 650 ✭✭✭dr_manhattan


    err.. now you're not really making sense to me.

    "for some reason, it's not acceptable for men to say that straight out - instead they have to tell you how beautiful you are (yawn)"

    This kind of makes me think we've just had vastly different experiences, ahem. *especially* in the US.

    "so much easier to go to a club or something, pick out a guy who looks appealing, get talking, get kissing, get to bed together!"

    which is approximately the same time a date takes - 3 or so hours. In fact it is a date, it's just not pre-ordained. Small talk is still involved, no?

    And yeah, from the sound of things you have dated some very slushy people. Try clubbing in the US sometime. Not everyone over there dates compulsively ;-)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭simu


    Originally posted by dr_manhattan
    err.. now you're not really making sense to me.

    "for some reason, it's not acceptable for men to say that straight out - instead they have to tell you how beautiful you are (yawn)"

    Well, I meant that this happens in Europe - don't know how it is in US. I'm saying there's probably more hassle for men than women in scoring with people in Europe.
    This kind of makes me think we've just had vastly different experiences, ahem. *especially* in the US.

    I've never gone dating in the US - I'm talking about Americans I've met in Europe. Maybe they behave differently abroad.
    which is approximately the same time a date takes - 3 or so hours. In fact it is a date, it's just not pre-ordained. Small talk is still involved, no?

    Well, the fact that it's not pre-ordained makes it less hassle, more fun and spontaneous so for me the 2 things are different. Besides, in a club, you can hang around with your friends and other stuff as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 650 ✭✭✭dr_manhattan


    How very surreal.

    From me making a simple statement that people being up front about wanting sex is better, it seems you are now saying that meeting in a nightclub beats dating, because the sex that results is more spontaneous.

    Fair enough then: it's absolutely nothing to do with what I was trying to say, and it's a completely valid opinion. You seem to think that all americans date. They don't. Quite a lot of them meet in nightclubs just like you describe.

    Funnily enough, americans actually *invented* the modern nightclub - and 90% of the music played in it. But anyways...

    Meanwhile, back in the point I was making:

    Americans are honest and up front if they are attracted to you. Whether in a nightclub, launderette or taxi cab, if they like you they say it.

    Meanwhile irish and english people fritter and **** about, playing games before they've even gotten to know someone's name. If an american say 'call me' they mean call them. If a UK or irish person says it, they can mean anything.

    simple point, no? I have to say i find it a bit odd that you're talking about dating/shagging americans without having done it in the US....?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭simu


    Well, many of the Americans I've met have been really odd but then again it's a huge country, even if you live there, you'd have a really differrent experience depending on which region you're in, what people you happened to meet etc.

    Back on topic, I think it's up to individuals, whatever nationality they may be, to cut the waffle and be direct when it comes to sex/dating etc - some people might find it strange but overall, it makes life a lot easier (and would also help avoid clogging the personal issues board up with "Does s/he like me?" threads)!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 650 ✭✭✭dr_manhattan


    "(and would also help avoid clogging the personal issues board up with "Does s/he like me?" threads)!"

    LOL, agreed 100%

    I have to say, it's not like I'm devoid of empathy/sympathy for the heartbroken: but a lot of PI threads make me just want to go "look just ****ing ask her/him already!!!! jeeesus! It's only ONE fact, and requires no research! ASK!!!"

    The capacity of humanity for fumbling and frittering about is infinite: sometimes it feels like I'm the only one who's aware that I'm getting older by the second; and time spent going "errrr..." is time wasted haha.

    Unless you're hugh grant. In which case you get paid to go "errr..." all the time ;-)


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