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It wasnt a person, it wasnt a bear, it was what it was.

  • 19-02-2012 10:56pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭


    For those who didnt guess this is about sasqautch, almas and the yeti ect. The mystery here is the fact that there is over 2500 sightings of sasquatch alone in north america and canada. Many footprints that defy classification and have consistent antomical details even when found hundreds of miles apart. I dont find over a hundred years of hoaxing and or misidentification plausable in my humble opinion.

    Whats everyone elses take in it?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    I'll be honest, I'd like to believe, but I think that there's a reason that sightings have all been from a distance, and photos/footage have all been blurry and inconclusive.

    If they do exist, they must be the worlds rarest animals, to exist in well explored places and yet nothing conclusive shown for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I'll be honest, I'd like to believe, but I think that there's a reason that sightings have all been from a distance, and photos/footage have all been blurry and inconclusive.

    If they do exist, they must be the worlds rarest animals, to exist in well explored places and yet nothing conclusive shown for them.

    Well thats my point in a way. Its not a matter of belief for me. I find the evidence points in the direction of an unknown primate and come tomorrow when Im not as tired Ill back up my claim!


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Sorry for the delay. I cant talk about just one aspect of the evidence I find convincing for sasquatch because It is the combination of trace evidence (footprints) and sightings I find compelling. On the subject of sightings they can be either misidentification, the witness lying or someone playing a trick on somebody.

    I dont see this as misidentification or a hoax. The other possiblity is lying but I dont see how 2500 pre internet can be lying to the same description. Anyway Ill start with one of my favouraites reported in 1955 the witness signed a sworn affidavit:
    This drawing of the animal William Roe saw was done by his daughter under his direction.
    This, to the best of my recollection, is what the creature looked like and how it acted as it came across the clearing directly towards me. My first impression was of a huge man, about six feet tall, almost three feet wide and probably weighing somewhere near 300 pounds. It was covered from head to foot with dark brown, silver-tipped hair. But as it came closer I saw by its breasts that it was a female. And yet, its torso was not curved like a female’s. Its broad frame was straight from shoulder to hip. Its arms were much thicker than a man’s arms, and longer, reaching almost to its knees. Its feet were broader proportionately than a man’s, about five inches wide at the front and tapering to much thinner heels. When it walked it placed the heel of its foot down first, and I could see the grey-brown skin or hide on the soles of its feet.

    It came to the edge of the bush I was hiding in, within twenty feet of me, and squatted down on its haunches. Reaching out its hands it pulled the branches of bushes toward it and stripped the leaves with its teeth. Its lips curled flexibly around the leaves as it ate. I was close enough to see that its teeth were white and even.

    The shape of this creature’s head somewhat resembled a negro’s. The head was higher at the back than at the front. The nose was broad and flat. The lips and chin protruded farther than its nose. But the hair that covered it, leaving bare only the parts of the face around the mouth, nose and ears, made it resemble an animal as much as a human. None of its hair, even on the back of its head, was longer than an inch, and that on its face was much shorter. Its ears were shaped like a human’s ears. But its eyes were small and black like a bear’s. And its neck was unhuman. Thicker and shorter than any man’s I had ever seen.

    As I watched this creature, I wondered if some movie company was making a film at this place and that what I saw was an actor made up to look partly human and partly animal. But as I observed it more I decided it would be impossible to fake such a specimen. Anyway, I learned later that there was no such company near that area. Nor, in fact, did anyone live up Mica Mountain, according to the people who lived in Tete Jaune Cache.

    Finally, the wild thing must have got my scent, for it looked directly at me through an opening in the brush. A look of amazement crossed its face. It looked so comical at the moment I had to grin. Still in a crouched position, it backed up three or four steps, then straightened up to its full height and started to walk rapidly back the way it had come. For a moment it watched me over its shoulder as it went, not exactly afraid, but as though it wanted no contact with anything strange.

    The thought came to me that if I shot it, I would possibly have a specimen of great Interest to scientists the world over. I had heard stories about the Sasquatch, the giant hairy Indians that live in the legends of British Columbia Indians, and also, many claim, are still in fact alive today. Maybe this was a Sasquatch, I told myself.

    I levelled my rifle. The creature was still walking rapidly away, again turning its head to look in my direction. I lowered the rifle. Although I have called the creature “it,” I felt now that it was a human being and I knew I would never forgive myself if I killed it.

    Just as it came to the other patch of brush it threw back its head and made a peculiar noise that seemed to be half laugh and half language, and which I can only describe as a kind of whinny. Then it walked from the small brush into a stand of lodgepole pine.

    I stepped out into the opening and looked across a small ridge just beyond the pine to see if I could see it again. It came out on the ridge a couple of hundred yards away from me, tipped its head back again, and again emitted the only sound I had heard it make, but what this half-laugh, half-language was meant to convey, I do not know. It disappeared then, and I never saw it again.

    I wanted to find out if it lived on vegetation entirely or ate meat as well, so I went down and looked for signs. I found it in five different places, and although I examined it thoroughly, could find no hair or shells of bugs or insects. So I believe it was strictly a vegetarian.

    I found one place where it had slept for a couple of nights under a tree. Now, the nights were cool up the mountain, at this time of year especially, and yet it had not used a fire. I found no sign that it possessed even the simplest of tools. Nor a single companion while in this place.

    I hereby declare the above statement to be in every part true, to the best of my powers of observation and recollection.

    WILLIAM ROE

    This the picture drawn of the creature which was evidently a female.

    RoeSasquatch.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    If you lived here in England where I do, you'd see things that look exactly like this, but with clothes on, walking down main street on any morning.

    tac


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 analyst2


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Sorry for the delay. I cant talk about just one aspect of the evidence I find convincing for sasquatch because It is the combination of trace evidence (footprints) and sightings I find compelling. On the subject of sightings they can be either misidentification, the witness lying or someone playing a trick on somebody.

    I dont see this as misidentification or a hoax. The other possiblity is lying but I dont see how 2500 pre internet can be lying to the same description. Anyway Ill start with one of my favouraites reported in 1955 the witness signed a sworn affidavit:



    This the picture drawn of the creature which was evidently a female.

    RoeSasquatch.jpg

    Isn't it curious how there are so many sightings, yet no one has photographed them clearly or unambiguously or found other evidence.

    Have you any explanation as to why that is?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    analyst2 wrote: »
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Sorry for the delay. I cant talk about just one aspect of the evidence I find convincing for sasquatch because It is the combination of trace evidence (footprints) and sightings I find compelling. On the subject of sightings they can be either misidentification, the witness lying or someone playing a trick on somebody.

    I dont see this as misidentification or a hoax. The other possiblity is lying but I dont see how 2500 pre internet can be lying to the same description. Anyway Ill start with one of my favouraites reported in 1955 the witness signed a sworn affidavit:



    This the picture drawn of the creature which was evidently a female.

    RoeSasquatch.jpg

    Isn't it curious how there are so many sightings, yet no one has photographed them clearly or unambiguously or found other evidence.

    Have you any explanation as to why that is?

    Yes indeed. Some animals display behaviour termed as cryptic, that is they prefer to remain elusive. Particularly primates. There are several shots that people say was a sasquatch but until they bring in a dead body there is no definative proof. My point is the theory of an unknown primate makes more sense than a conspiracy group lasting hundreds of years. Im skeptical of that assesment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭al28283


    In recent years, the amount of camera phones and such means that there absolutely should be definitive picture or video evidence by now. I'm betting these unexplained sightings have dried up over the past 5 years


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    al28283 wrote: »
    In recent years, the amount of camera phones and such means that there absolutely should be definitive picture or video evidence by now. I'm betting these unexplained sightings have dried up over the past 5 years

    We dont have more pics of elusive animals like the wolverine (the animal) despite this. Whys that? No sightings havent went away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭Gileadi


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine

    Is a picture of a Wolverine.

    Are you trying to say that this elusive race of primates is in existance somewhere in N. America and that no bodies have been located?


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Gileadi wrote: »
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine

    Is a picture of a Wolverine.

    Are you trying to say that this elusive race of primates is in existance somewhere in N. America and that no bodies have been located?

    It is indeed we also have pictures of the mountain gorilla but a hundred years ago you would have been telling me that no way could a man sized primate exist in an area the size of munster. Ill do better on that not only will I say there is a ape in n america/ canada and there are no bones but that we know gorillas chimps ect lived in africa for millions of years and untill recently there was no fossil evidence. Now we have four chimp teeth. Ill add that the wolverine is seldom seen in the wild. Some biologists will work in areas with them for decades without seeing one.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Just before people ask me more questions I would like to ask whats everyones opinion of centuries of sightings and footprints which indicate primate anatomy and behavior? Im not asking you to disprove bigfoot but to give me your theory that explains the. sightings foot prints eg bears or secret society of hoaxers are a few explanations thrown out there


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 analyst2


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    We dont have more pics of elusive animals like the wolverine (the animal) despite this. Whys that? No sightings havent went away.
    Gileadi wrote: »
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine

    Is a picture of a Wolverine.

    Are you trying to say that this elusive race of primates is in existance somewhere in N. America and that no bodies have been located?

    As you were wrong about there being no pictures of the wolverine, do you allow for the possibility that you may also be wrong about your speculative view about this creature?
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The mystery here is the fact that there is over 2500 sightings of sasquatch alone in north america and canada.

    I think an additional mystery is that there have been 2500 claimed sightings, and not one person out of that 2500 happened to have a camera, or a camera phone. Not even one of them. Now that is a real mystery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    analyst2 wrote: »
    I think an additional mystery is that there have been 2500 claimed sightings, and not one person out of that 2500 happened to have a camera, or a camera phone. Not even one of them. Now that is a real mystery.

    Look on Youtube, there's a bunch. But they're all at a huge distance and looks like a person in the distance. There's also a bunch of very obviously fake/joke vids, some of which are funny!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 analyst2


    Look on Youtube, there's a bunch. But they're all at a huge distance and looks like a person in the distance. There's also a bunch of very obviously fake/joke vids, some of which are funny!

    Youtube is not evidence, and we know there is lots of "evidence" on youtube for UFO's, and for Homoeopathy, for the supposed paranormal powers of psychics and all sorts of things which are bogus.

    The fact that steadyeddy has thanked your post, and from his posts here, suggests he wants to believe this, in the absence of any real evidence.

    My position is different in that I want proper evidence. The world is full of cranks who believe in homoeopathy, UFO's and all sorts of paranormal claims made by others, and we all have to distinguish between a belief, and a fact.

    I know anadin works because there is a lot of proper evidence to demonstrate that it works. I know homeoepathy doesn't work because there is no proper evidence to show it is effective. I don't have to "believe" anadin works because I know it works. those who have to believe in something are, in essence, saying there is no evidence, as if there was proper evidence belief would not be necessary. You don't need belief when you have evidence, you only need belief when there is no evidence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    analyst2 wrote: »
    Youtube is not evidence, and we know there is lots of "evidence" on youtube for UFO's, and for Homoeopathy, for the supposed paranormal powers of psychics and all sorts of things which are bogus.
    Whoa there, before jumping to confusions, did you even read my post? Did I say the youtube videos were evidence or that they looked like fakes and jokes?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 analyst2


    Whoa there, before jumping to confusions, did you even read my post? Did I say the youtube videos were evidence or that they looked like fakes and jokes?

    I never claimed you did say that youtube videos were evidence, or that you didn't say some looked like fakes or jokes. Might you, yourself, be jumping to conclusions that I did claim either of those things about you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    We dont have more pics of elusive animals like the wolverine (the animal) despite this. Whys that? No sightings havent went away.


    Are you kidding? Pictures of wolverines (dead and alive) are a dime a dozen in the Nordic countries. Like this, taken in Finland:


    ahma.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    Thread turns into internet argument! Well done all round.

    It's possible the yeti exists, but highly unlikely. If we take examples of ourselves as some ''evolutionary'' man-monkey we can see that we lived in very small groups and were intellegent compared to other monkeys at the time.

    It could be said so that yeties are living in small isolated groups and are avoiding human contact by using their intelligence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Thread turns into internet argument! Well done all round.

    It's possible the yeti exists, but highly unlikely. If we take examples of ourselves as some ''evolutionary'' man-monkey we can see that we lived in very small groups and were intellegent compared to other monkeys at the time.

    It could be said so that yeties are living in small isolated groups and are avoiding human contact by using their intelligence.

    Ill get back to the other points after work because their longer points but I have to clarify here. I dont find the evidence of the yeti compelling at all. I think there is a lot less evidence for its existence than sasquatch. I also think theres less chance of a large primate existing in the himalyas than the pacific north west. If the Yeti exists it probraly lives in the sub tropical valleys of the himalyas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    analyst2 wrote: »
    As you were wrong about there being no pictures of the wolverine, do you allow for the possibility that you may also be wrong about your speculative view about this creature?

    Not at all Im still standing by wolverine pictures have not increased due to use of camera phones. For all we know there is plenty of pictures of sasquatch taken with a camera phone but a pic taken with a camera phone is never going to be proof. I would be aiming for a body.

    Heres a series of shots of an alleged sasquatch taken in florida. There a couple of shots of a large hair covered figure. Could be real or could be fake. We dont know. So there could be camera shots out there.

    27272.jpg

    9.jpg


    This other shot was taken with a trail cam.

    c581da6e9a72378L.jpg


    So there may very well be pictures out there. It has to be remembered that wildlfe is often extremely hard to film or photograph a lot of what you see in national geographic and other magazines is faked or staged.

    http://www.popphoto.com/2011/09/award-winning-swedish-photographer-admits-to-fakery

    One photgrapher tells it like it is.

    Magazine scientific american states that most wildlife photgraphy is faked

    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/compound-eye/2011/12/12/most-of-the-wildlife-photography-you-see-is-fake/
    I think an additional mystery is that there have been 2500 claimed sightings, and not one person out of that 2500 happened to have a camera, or a camera phone. Not even one of them. Now that is a real mystery.

    Not a problem to me in the slightest. Jane goodal was in areas with chimps for months without seeing one. THe same goes for George shcaller and gorillas and there was a similar thing with the recently discovered Bili ape in africa.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    analyst2 wrote: »
    Youtube is not evidence, and we know there is lots of "evidence" on youtube for UFO's, and for Homoeopathy, for the supposed paranormal powers of psychics and all sorts of things which are bogus.

    No its not evidence in fact no camera pic would be evidence we need a body or at least part of it for the mystery to be solved. I will have to say science does not class things as bogus. The starting point in science is always "we dont know".
    The fact that steadyeddy has thanked your post, and from his posts here, suggests he wants to believe this, in the absence of any real evidence.

    Em no I dont. I dont believe in sasquatch. I find the hypothesis of an unknown primate a more fitting explantion to the mystery of hundreds of footprints and sightings than a collective hoax. Im a skeptic and I am quite skeptical about the current thinking.
    My position is different in that I want proper evidence. The world is full of cranks who believe in homoeopathy, UFO's and all sorts of paranormal claims made by others, and we all have to distinguish between a belief, and a fact.

    Right Im actual a scientist by education and profession. Im wondering why you are assuming an element of beleif towards me? By the way stating that bigfoot definatly does not exist is also a belief. Assuming all the sightings are hoaxs is also a belief.
    I know anadin works because there is a lot of proper evidence to demonstrate that it works. I know homeoepathy doesn't work because there is no proper evidence to show it is effective. I don't have to "believe" anadin works because I know it works. those who have to believe in something are, in essence, saying there is no evidence, as if there was proper evidence belief would not be necessary. You don't need belief when you have evidence, you only need belief when there is no evidence.

    I agree with what your saying about belief but I have to point out scientific method does not start with evidence. Its starts with a mystery and then a hypothesis or two is generated to explain the mystery. There is a mystery here. Over a few hundred years sightings of large apes were reported and footprints found over hundreds of miles apart which feature similar anatomy and dermal ridges (like finger prints on the soles of the feet). The footprints are often 6 feet apart and sunk at a depth indicating a weight of at least 800 pounds.

    Dr.Jeff meldrum is an expert in primate locomotion and houses some of the collection of track casts. He is sure these are not hoaxs. In fact he regularly spots hoaxs from their crude attempts at replicating ape anatomy. Finger print expert jimmy chillcut even inspected the casts to debunk them but came to the oppisite conclusion.

    Meldrum turned him loose on the entire collection. "What I actually found surprised even me," Chilcutt said. The print ridges on the bottoms of five castings -- which were taken at different times and locations -- flowed lengthwise along the foot, unlike human prints, which flow from side to side, he said. "No way do human footprints do that -- never, ever.

    "The skeptic in me had to believe that (all of the prints were from) the same species of animal," Chilcutt said. "I believe that this is an animal in the Pacific Northwest that we have never documented."

    The hypothesis that the sightings footprints are a collective cult of hoaxers doesnt seem realistic to me.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 analyst2


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Dr.Jeff meldrum is an expert in primate locomotion and houses some of the collection of track casts. He is sure these are not hoaxs. In fact he regularly spots hoaxs from their crude attempts at replicating ape anatomy. Finger print expert jimmy chillcut even inspected the casts to debunk them but came to the oppisite conclusion.




    The hypothesis that the sightings footprints are a collective cult of hoaxers doesnt seem realistic to me.

    I am old enough to remember when considerable numbers of people were convinced crop circles, mainly in the UK, were caused by aliens. Many people think many things, and just because someone else is "convinced" is not evidence.

    As a scientist you'll know the difference between anecdote and facts, (although its unusual for a scientist to appear not to know the difference between "your" and "you're", so what sort of scientist you are remains uncertain). What you have come up with here is anecdote piled on rumour heaped on top of speculation. For example, how someone be "convinced" footprint casts belong to a species which no one knows anything about, and about which we have no evidence, or no knowledge or facts, seems unusual. Certainly no scientist I know of would ever make such a claim.

    What was the conclusion Jimmy Chillcut came to, as I have no idea what the opposite conclusion of debunking is? Are you suggesting he, also, came to the conclusion that these footprint casts are of a creature about which we have no knowledge, and evidence and no facts? Just because someone else is "convinced" is not evidence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    analyst2 wrote: »
    I am old enough to remember when considerable numbers of people were convinced crop circles, mainly in the UK, were caused by aliens. Many people think many things, and just because someone else is "convinced" is not evidence.

    As a scientist you'll know the difference between anecdote and facts, (although its unusual for a scientist to appear not to know the difference between "your" and "you're", so what sort of scientist you are remains uncertain). What you have come up with here is anecdote piled on rumour heaped on top of speculation. For example, how someone be "convinced" footprint casts belong to a species which no one knows anything about, and about which we have no evidence, or no knowledge or facts, seems unusual. Certainly no scientist I know of would ever make such a claim.

    What was the conclusion Jimmy Chillcut came to, as I have no idea what the opposite conclusion of debunking is? Are you suggesting he, also, came to the conclusion that these footprint casts are of a creature about which we have no knowledge, and evidence and no facts? Just because someone else is "convinced" is not evidence.

    Ill get back to this post after work but Ill start by saying this weak rebuttal is one of the reasons I find the hypothesis put forward by skeptics of collective hoaxers to be rubbish. Attacking spelling and somehow equated conclusions reached by scientists as rumour or anecdote despite they both give reasons why they came to the conclusion isnt a scietific arguement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    By the way what hypothesis are people putting forward to explain the tracks and sightings ect Ie people lying ect.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 analyst2


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Ill get back to this post after work but Ill start by saying this weak rebuttal is one of the reasons I find the hypothesis put forward by skeptics of collective hoaxers to be rubbish. Attacking spelling and somehow equated conclusions reached by scientists as rumour or anecdote despite they both give reasons why they came to the conclusion isnt a scietific arguement.

    For something to be rebutted, there has to be some substance to actually be rebutted.

    In your most recent post you say that, because the people who think this phenemonen is real are scientists, then we must all accept their word without any evidence. I have to point out that conclusiong reached without good evidence should be questionsed, whoever has come to the conclusions. Even conclusions which have been reached with good evidence should be examined, and I am suprised that you, who claims to be a scientist, seems to be suggesting that we should just take someone else's word for it.

    I won't do that, and if you want to then thats your judgment. In the meantime I don't think it serves any useful purpose to keep repeating here thats science and knowledge is based on evidence, and not on anecdote or opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    analyst2 wrote: »
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Ill get back to this post after work but Ill start by saying this weak rebuttal is one of the reasons I find the hypothesis put forward by skeptics of collective hoaxers to be rubbish. Attacking spelling and somehow equated conclusions reached by scientists as rumour or anecdote despite they both give reasons why they came to the conclusion isnt a scietific arguement.

    For something to be rebutted, there has to be some substance to actually be rebutted.

    In your most recent post you say that, because the people who think this phenemonen is real are scientists, then we must all accept their word without any evidence. I have to point out that conclusiong reached without good evidence should be questionsed, whoever has come to the conclusions. Even conclusions which have been reached with good evidence should be examined, and I am suprised that you, who claims to be a scientist, seems to be suggesting that we should just take someone else's word for it.

    I won't do that, and if you want to then thats your judgment. In the meantime I don't think it serves any useful purpose to keep repeating here thats science and knowledge is based on evidence, and not on anecdote or opinion.

    Before I deal with your post what hypothesis do you put foward to explain the sightings and footprints and please back up the reason scientifically and I will present my case and present the science behind it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    analyst2 wrote: »
    I am old enough to remember when considerable numbers of people were convinced crop circles, mainly in the UK, were caused by aliens. Many people think many things, and just because someone else is "convinced" is not evidence.

    Im not putting a case forward by saying such and such is convinced Im suggeting the evidence put forward is convincing and demands a proper investigation.
    As a scientist you'll know the difference between anecdote and facts, (although its unusual for a scientist to appear not to know the difference between "your" and "you're", so what sort of scientist you are remains uncertain).

    Im a biochemist. Is attacking spelling part of normal scientific method or am I missing something?
    What you have come up with here is anecdote piled on rumour heaped on top of speculation. For example, how someone be "convinced" footprint casts belong to a species which no one knows anything about, and about which we have no evidence, or no knowledge or facts, seems unusual. Certainly no scientist I know of would ever make such a claim.

    Dr.Melrdum is a paleontologist and an expert in primate locomotion. Saying is conclusions are based on rumour shows a complete ignorance of the underlying science. Actually the analysis of footprints (trace evidence) is very much scientific method. Its called Ichnotaxonmy and many animals in the fossil record have been classified based on foot prints alone. This track alone was analysed by Dr.Meldrum and others and from this the height speed and weight of the creature can be determined. It is a long established science.

    footprint.jpg
    What was the conclusion Jimmy Chillcut came to, as I have no idea what the opposite conclusion of debunking is? Are you suggesting he, also, came to the conclusion that these footprint casts are of a creature about which we have no knowledge, and evidence and no facts? Just because someone else is "convinced" is not evidence.

    The conclusion he came to is that based on the dermal ridges found in hundreds of track casts which were cast decades and hundreds of miles apart the tracks are unlikely to be human. The dermal ridges are consistent with a non human primate and hoaxers would have to have a shared knowledge of primate anatmoy in order to hoax these. Again please deal with the case put forward rather than say "just because someone is convinced doesnt mean they are right ect". If I reference a scientific paper Im referencing the case put forward by the scientist rather than the scientist who presented the paper.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Dr.Melrdum is a paleontologist and an expert in primate locomotion. Saying is conclusions are based on rumour shows a complete ignorance of the underlying science. Actually the analysis of footprints (trace evidence) is very much scientific method. Its called Ichnotaxonmy and many animals in the fossil record have been classified based on foot prints alone. This track alone was analysed by Dr.Meldrum and others and from this the height speed and weight of the creature can be determined. It is a long established science.
    [Image]
    The conclusion he came to is that based on the dermal ridges found in hundreds of track casts which were cast decades and hundreds of miles apart the tracks are unlikely to be human. The dermal ridges are consistent with a non human primate and hoaxers would have to have a shared knowledge of primate anatmoy in order to hoax these.
    If tracks are left, surely they can be followed or the creature tracked. If these people are genuine and convinced that it's real, then how come this hasn't been done and more concrete evidence found?


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    Mod Note:

    Please keep discussion civil. Trying to discredit someone by attacking their spelling or anything similar will not be tolerated.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    If tracks are left, surely they can be followed or the creature tracked. If these people are genuine and convinced that it's real, then how come this hasn't been done and more concrete evidence found?

    Hey sorry for the dealy and thanks for the question. Animals are very hard to track by tracks alone. Similar efforts were made with the giant panda prior its official recognition by science. These people have looked for these animals but the area they are trying to cover is massive. North america and canada have more wilderness than most european countries have total landmass. If the tracks change the substrate their left on following them will be impossible. One of the largest series of tracks was found in bossburg washington which consisted of over a thousand tracks. They started in hard clay and ended in snow which wouldnt have been easy to track.

    The scientists that first started looking into this mystery concentrated on trying to conclude wheter or not these tracks could be hoaxed and spent huge amounts of time interviewing witnesses (2500 pre internet). Only recently have some scientists recieved scientific funding to try and track this creature and one of the new methods being used soon is the use of bloodhounds. The bloodhounds will be trained to track any non human primate. Even so these things if they exist and judging by the footprints and eyewitness reports are exremely fast moving, at home in their enviroment and intelligent enough to avoid human contact.


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