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UN finds Israeli raid on Flotilla unlawful

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    I could say the same, your posts are a very simplistic view of a very complex period of history.

    I was just pointing out one of the many details that you left out actually. My post wasn't intended to be anything beyond that.

    Now you can certainly claim that other people history is simplisitc, but I would very much disagree, as the Zionist version has long since been shown to be inaccurate, and very often by Israeli historians.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    why?

    Maybe you would like to give us the complete history of Palestine from 1917 to 1948?

    Zionists started arriving in the late 1800's so we would need start earlier than 1917.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    why?

    Maybe you would like to give us the complete history of Palestine from 1917 to 1948?

    People always have excuses for the Israelis.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    This report achieves nothing in real life. In some reverse - psychology way it reinforces the status quo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    You have zero credibility on the topic of Israel. Its ok to kill people cause that's what Israel does, that's the best defence you can come up with? ffs.

    Drive past my house and I'll shoot you. You've had a fair warning, not my problem. :pac:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    wes wrote: »
    Zionists started arriving in the late 1800's so we would need start earlier than 1917.

    I mentioned 1917 as that was when the Balfour declaration was made.

    I understand as well that there may have been a few Jews kicking around that region as long as 3000 years ago as well, until they were expelled over a period of time by different factions, starting with the Romans.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    amacachi wrote: »
    Drive past my house and I'll shoot you. You've had a fair warning, not my problem. :pac:

    But my house is right beside yours and I have to go past it to get to work! :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Sticky_Fingers


    Sure, enjoy the anonymity afforded to you by the internet and give it your best shot.



    Mention my family and I'm not a very rational person.. Like yourself, I'm just making a point.

    Of course just like the Israeli reaction yours is not in the least bit psychotic and no court in the land would ever convict you since you acted completely rationally and had ample justification for taking it, just making a point. You and Israel make perfect bedfellows.
    In regards to attacking Israel, attempting to sail floatillas through a blockade, border incursions etc etc - everyone know's that Israel will respond with brutal and disproportionate force & thats the price for attacking Israel.
    Sorry to bust your bubble but if Isreal wants to be taken seriously and not held in the contempt that its actions show that it deserves its got to start playing by the rules. Just because Hamas are murdering scumbags doesn't give Israel the right to be, they want to play dirty then the international community has the right and the duty to treat them like the turds they are acting like. It is people who are making weak tea excuses for them (sound familiar Oaklee Damp Background) who are enabling states to literally get away with murder. Oh and if I recall there were no arms found on the aid ships apart from some pathetic looking tools scared up by the IDF to justify their actions so your assertion that the members of the flotilla were attacking Israel is complete Glen Beck fantasy.
    Someday, like happened here in Ireland, there'll me a meeting of moderates. Peace will decend upon the region and everyone will look back and say "WTF was that all about".
    And does your justifaction of the raid on the flotilla bring this day any closer. Do you accept that Israel screwed up because if Israel and its apologists like you cannot see fault in your own actions then how can your expect your opponents to see fault in theirs, without which no common ground can be reached.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    I mentioned 1917 as that was when the Balfour declaration was made.

    Zionists started arriving in the late 1800's. We can't exactly ignore how Zionists ended up in Mandate Palestine in 1917, it leaves out a rather major chunk of history, so once again you are being entirely too simplistic.
    I understand as well that there may have been a few Jews kicking around that region as long as 3000 years ago as well, until they were expelled over a period of time by different factions, starting with the Romans.

    Yes, and the Palestinians are descendants of the Jews who were not expelled (as well as the various invaders, as inter-marriage occured), as per recent genetic evidence. Personally, I fail to see how a 3000 year old land claim should have any relevance in the here and now. Sure, can't we all claim to be African if we go back far enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    This is the raid on the flotilla trying the break the Gaza blockade?
    Where Israel said it would allow the flotilla in, as long as they could inspect the ships (obviously to ensure no weapons were being transported)?

    The people on the ships refused to have their ships inspected . When the Israeli soldiers initially landed (without deadly weapons I might add) they were brutally beaten and kidnapped, thus provoking Israels reaction.

    I think Israel were well within their rights to try to protect their country, if these individuals on the flotilla were as innocent as people think they would not have attacked Israeli soldiers and would not be dead.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,466 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    This is the raid on the flotilla trying the break the Gaza blockade?
    Where Israel said it would allow the flotilla in, as long as they could inspect the ships (obviously to ensure no weapons were being transported)?

    The people on the ships refused to have their ships inspected . When the Israeli soldiers initially landed (without deadly weapons I might add) they were brutally beaten and kidnapped, thus provoking Israels reaction.

    I think Israel were well within their rights to try to protect their country, if these individuals on the flotilla were as innocent as people think they would not have attacked Israeli soldiers and would not be dead.

    International waters. Israel can inspect boats that are in its waters, outside, it can suck a lemon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    This is the raid on the flotilla trying the break the Gaza blockade?

    Which is a illegal act of collective punishment of 1.5 million people.
    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Where Israel said it would allow the flotilla in, as long as they could inspect the ships (obviously to ensure no weapons were being transported)?

    The people on the ships refused to have their ships inspected . When the Israeli soldiers initially landed (without deadly weapons I might add) they were brutally beaten and kidnapped, thus provoking Israels reaction.

    The IDF had no right to board the boat in International waters. The IDF are the ones who attacked first, and the people on the boat were defending themselves from the IDF who had no business on there boat.

    Secondly, the whole point of the Floatilla was to get in stuff that Israel banned e.g. stuff like Pasta at one point, so letting Israel inspect it would defeat the purpose as they wouldn't let in essential supplies.
    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    I think Israel were well within their rights to try to protect their country, if these individuals on the flotilla were as innocent as people think they would not have attacked Israeli soldiers and would not be dead.

    Ah yes, blame the victims...... Good to see that supporters of Israel not only refuse to condemn there actions, they actively come up with excuses. Good job making Israel looking worse and worse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    The flotilla was heading towards Gaza, whether or not it was in international waters or not. They were well aware that they would be boarded too.

    If you are on a supposedly peaceful mission with humanitarian aid and get boarded by Israeli soldiers (who already have a futhless reputation) do you;

    a) put your hands up, act indignant but co-operate
    b) start beating the soldiers with iron bars and handcuff them downstairs.

    Those guys were out to cause trouble and they succeeded.



    How essential is pasta exactly?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Sticky_Fingers


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »

    How essential is pasta exactly?
    Pretty bloody essential if your living in a hovel where your house once stood before some d!ckhead put a tank shell through it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,466 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    The flotilla was heading towards Gaza, whether or not it was in international waters or not. They were well aware that they would be boarded too.

    If you are on a supposedly peaceful mission with humanitarian aid and get boarded by Israeli soldiers (who already have a futhless reputation) do you;

    a) put your hands up, act indignant but co-operate
    b) start beating the soldiers with iron bars and handcuff them downstairs.

    Those guys were out to cause trouble and they succeeded.



    How essential is pasta exactly?

    International waters. Maybe you don't understand what that means. Israel didn't seem to. They have no jurisdiction, and no right in go into a sovereign vessel. I believe it was a Turkish vessel, which means it's essentially turkish land. They were invading.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »

    How essential is pasta exactly?

    This about sums up the pro isreal arguments for me :pac:


    As for the report, nothing will be done...... any suggested action will be blocked by the US.

    Its been a few weeks since Isreal commited any news worthy acts of savagery...... you know what that means? Theres a killing spree just over the horizon, palestinain kids or woman more than likely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    The flotilla was heading towards Gaza, whether or not it was in international waters or not.

    Yes, and they were attacked in International waters in the dead of night. Also, there is the UN report which found the whole thing unlawful.
    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    They were well aware that they would be boarded too.

    Which doesn't make the IDF attack right......
    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    If you are on a supposedly peaceful mission with humanitarian aid and get boarded by Israeli soldiers (who already have a futhless reputation) do you;

    a) put your hands up, act indignant but co-operate

    b) start beating the soldiers with iron bars and handcuff them downstairs.

    Those guys were out to cause trouble and they succeeded.

    Well if they attacking in the dead of night, some people will protect themselves from a pack of well known murderer's. If they were really looking for a fight surely they would have done a lot better than using stuff that is commonly found on a ship.

    Also, I would like to point out the only people who murdered anyone was the IDF. Also, why were some of the dead shot at point blank range or in the back?
    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    How essential is pasta exactly?

    What danger is Pasta exactly? I was using it as an example to show how petty and pointless some of the stuff they banned was. What possible reason could anyone have to ban pasta. Its truly pointless.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    wes wrote: »
    What danger is Pasta exactly? I was using it as an example to show how petty and pointless some of the stuff they banned was. What possible reason could anyone have to ban pasta. Its truly pointless.
    ...
    The carb content's a bit high...


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Never said they did, the world is a dirty shade of gray but the zealots on both sides of this conflict and their respective cheering section here on boards (and the media in general) only see it in black and white. Israel focked up here, the least they can do is admit it. Its obvious that Hamas are a bunch of murdering scumbags but Israel have not exactly showered themselves in glory.

    Personally I would like the world to step back and offer the belligerents a compromise, put them on a desert island and let them duke it out themselves, no support for either side and no quarter asked for or given, winner takes all. Once a victor emerges I then suggest we nuke the island from orbit so their rabid zealotry doesn't infect anyone else and as a clear warning to others. Its the only way to be sure.
    I wasn't disagreeing with you.

    Your post is a very very simplistic way of looking at it.

    Britain took the land from the Ottoman empire when thy defeated them in 1917. Since 1915 the Uk was trying to establish a joint Arab/Jewish homeland there and in 1947 this happened.



    In May 1948 the Israeli leader, David Ben Gurion declared independance, the following day half the middle east invaded.

    I can see why Israel are paranoid.
    Britain in land grab shocker. More at 6.

    wes wrote: »
    Yes, and the Palestinians are descendants of the Jews who were not expelled (as well as the various invaders, as inter-marriage occured), as per recent genetic evidence. Personally, I fail to see how a 3000 year old land claim should have any relevance in the here and now. Sure, can't we all claim to be African if we go back far enough.
    Indeed.
    There's a castle named after my Family in Sligo. Actually there are 6 around there and Mayo. I don't think I'd stand a chance of claiming land once owned by my ancestors.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Is there any corner of the globe that British imperialism has not managed to fcuk up in some way?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Is there any corner of the globe that British imperialism has not managed to fcuk up in some way?

    The Belgians, French, Spanish and Portuguese got into a few places first, but it's easier to just look at the ones the Brits were involved in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭Viper_JB


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    The flotilla was heading towards Gaza, whether or not it was in international waters or not. They were well aware that they would be boarded too.

    The whole international waters issue here is not to be easily dismissed it's effectively a country engaged in an act of piracy leading to the pointless deaths of nine people in international waters. It's pretty mad when you think about it. Just because you inform someone that you're about to do something illegal it does not make you innocent of the crime. If 9 Israelis were killed on the way to Turkey under similiar circumstances in international waters do you really think Israel would sit back and do nothing about it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    wes wrote: »
    Yes, and they were attacked in International waters in the dead of night. Also, there is the UN report which found the whole thing unlawful.

    Which doesn't make the IDF attack right......

    Well if they attacking in the dead of night, some people will protect themselves from a pack of well known murderer's. If they were really looking for a fight surely they would have done a lot better than using stuff that is commonly found on a ship.

    Also, I would like to point out the only people who murdered anyone was the IDF. Also, why were some of the dead shot at point blank range or in the back?

    What danger is Pasta exactly? I was using it as an example to show how petty and pointless some of the stuff they banned was. What possible reason could anyone have to ban pasta. Its truly pointless.

    First of all f**k the UN. They've literally stood by and watched thousands of people being massacred and done nothing, I don't give two S**ts what their report says.

    The blockade is 'illegal' (which is a ridiculous statement when you talk of international conflict), so what, Israel had a blockade and they were going to enforce it. It wasn't a shock for anyone that a ship was boarded. They boarded one at a time (with about a minute between landings) armed with paintball guns. Doesn't sound very aggressive to me. Beating someone unconscious and kidnapping them, however, does. The head honchos ordered a retaliation as a snap decision to defend their troops. Too hard, yes, but the blockade runners were the instigators.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    [Edit: Disregard, found a link. Reading the report now]

    NTM


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    First of all f**k the UN. They've literally stood by and watched thousands of people being massacred and done nothing, I don't give two S**ts what their report says.

    So you take issue with the UN, but happy to make excuses of the IDF killing a bunch of people.
    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    The blockade is 'illegal' (which is a ridiculous statement when you talk of international conflict),

    Stating a inconvient fact is hardly ridiculous in the context of what we are discussing.
    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    so what, Israel had a blockade and they were going to enforce it.

    Yes, and blockade is illegal whether you like it or not, and the collective punishment of 1.5 million people is just state terrorism. Of course, Israel state terrorism is apparently alright.
    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    It wasn't a shock for anyone that a ship was boarded.

    I think the people who were shot in the backs it might have been....
    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    They boarded one at a time (with about a minute between landings) armed with paintball guns. Doesn't sound very aggressive to me.

    The boarding in International waters in the dead of night, and they fired even before they boards according to the people on the boat.

    I think all the dead speaks to the aggression btw.
    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Being beaten unconscious and kidnapped, however does.

    They had no business on the boat in the first place, as you know they were attacking.
    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    The head honchos ordered a retaliation as a snap decision to defend their troops. Too hard, yes, but the blockade runners were the instigators.

    No, they weren't the IDF were the attackers, the people on the boat defended themselves. Again, we see the same old excuses from supporters of Israel and rarely do we see condemnation. Its pretty appaling all the excuses for Israel murderous violence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    First of all f**k the UN. They've literally stood by and watched thousands of people being massacred and done nothing, I don't give two S**ts what their report says.

    The blockade is 'illegal' (which is a ridiculous statement when you talk of international conflict)

    The blockade isn't an international conflict, its a means for Israel to starve its own citizens to death, or have them die of disease. It is so bizarre and unsettling to see people justify Israel's actions in this way. Its one thing to complain about Hamas or whatever but its another to claim the blockade is admissible or the ship boarding and murdering of international citizens is what you get if you piss off Israel, 'cause its Israel yo, and we're a bunch of dicks.'


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,661 ✭✭✭General Zod


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    First of all f**k the UN. They've literally stood by and watched thousands of people being massacred and done nothing, I don't give two S**ts what their report says.

    The blockade is 'illegal' (which is a ridiculous statement when you talk of international conflict), so what, Israel had a blockade and they were going to enforce it. It wasn't a shock for anyone that a ship was boarded. They boarded one at a time (with about a minute between landings) armed with paintball guns. Doesn't sound very aggressive to me. Beating someone unconscious and kidnapping them, however, does. The head honchos ordered a retaliation as a snap decision to defend their troops. Too hard, yes, but the blockade runners were the instigators.


    and they were to know they were paintball guns how?

    TBh i can comepltely understand the reaction of picking up a bar and going for the troops when teh troops are abseiling onto your ship with guns. the IDF are known for acting first and ignoring questions later, so people could very reasonably be in fear for their lives.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    No new registrations yet? And this thread's been going on for four pages. What are they, on a break?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ...
    The carb content's a bit high...

    ...and apparently if you leave it, its a bastard to get off the dishes.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    The blockade isn't an international conflict, its a means for Israel to starve its own citizens to death, or have them die of disease. It is so bizarre and unsettling to see people justify Israel's actions in this way. Its one thing to complain about Hamas or whatever but its another to claim the blockade is admissible or the ship boarding and murdering of international citizens is what you get if you piss off Israel, 'cause its Israel yo, and we're a bunch of dicks.'

    The people of Gaza are not Israeli citizens so theres no way it could be "starve its own citizens to death". Also Gaza may not be happyhappyfunland but the people are not starving. If you want to keep making that claim produce evidence of death by malnutrition due to the blockade.

    It should also be noted that the people of Gaza were not made Egyptian citizens during its occupation by Egypt from 1948-1967


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