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The emergence of the extreme right in Ireland...

  • 03-12-2012 3:46pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    Hope this is the right forum for this, I'm posting it in Irish Economy as the motivation for what I've wandered across on the web (see below), appears to be primarily to do with jobs and employment opportunities, and the polices pertaining to entry to the state for access to the Irish labour market.

    Anyway, over the weekend, I was doing some family tree research via Google and happened to wander across a few websites that I actually found to be alarming in terms of the clearly racist content and the extreme views openly stated by contributors:

    http://www.nationalistireland.com/


    Another organisation styling itself the DRM (Democratic Right Movement), their website is down but there are numerous youtube video clips promoting crazy policies to do with immigration control, etc.

    It occurred to me after having had some time to digest all of this content that I discovered, that is it only a matter of time before someone connected with these ideologies carries out a Breivik type massacre in this country?


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Comments

  • Site Banned Posts: 36 tim_sims


    unlikely , ireland has pretty stringent policys when it comes to access to firearms , norway does not


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    .....

    Another organisation styling itself the DRM (Democratic Right Movement), their website is down but there are numerous youtube video clips promoting crazy policies to do with immigration control, etc.

    ......

    They split - a major achievement considering how few of them there were in the 1st place. Don't know who this current shower are, but expect much typing and little else.

    The video is funny though....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭[Jackass]


    I think Ireland has an extremely conservative political landscape at the best of times. Our "centre" would be centre-right wing in most other countries imo (FG & FF) whereas our "left" is barely past centre (Labour) and our most extremist parties, such as SF are still ultra conservative in nature.

    For example, we don't have a strong liberal vote in Ireland - a large party who would be in favor of blanket legalisation of abortion before 12 weeks (Pro choice - open to correction, but I think we are the last, if not one of the last EC countries not to have this legislation) and emergency abortion thereafter as a legal clarification. Nor do we have a party heavy lobbying on issues such as Gay Marriage or Same Sex adoption legislation. We don't have any progressive party on the removal of religion from state and having a strong sentiment towards social development issues such as stem cell research (coupled with our low corporation tax, a potential multi-billion euro European research hub could be based in Ireland). That among many other issues, I think we are extremely conservative on all sides of the spectrum.

    Regarding the "Nationalist Movement", thankfully, as far as I am aware, no one has ever been elected to the Dail on the basis of an anti-diversity agenda. I can't see a party like that ever taking off here either, unlike in the UK where there is (imo) a much stronger anti-diversity, racist undertone. Much to do with the "British" way and their history. Make of that what you will.


  • Site Banned Posts: 36 tim_sims


    [Jackass] wrote: »
    I think Ireland has an extremely conservative political landscape at the best of times. Our "centre" would be centre-right wing in most other countries imo (FG & FF) whereas our "left" is barely past centre (Labour) and our most extremist parties, such as SF are still ultra conservative in nature.

    For example, we don't have a strong liberal vote in Ireland - a large party who would be in favor of blanket legalisation of abortion before 12 weeks (Pro choice - open to correction, but I think we are the last, if not one of the last EC countries not to have this legislation) and emergency abortion thereafter as a legal clarification. Nor do we have a party heavy lobbying on issues such as Gay Marriage or Same Sex adoption legislation. We don't have any progressive party on the removal of religion from state and having a strong sentiment towards social development issues such as stem cell research (coupled with our low corporation tax, a potential multi-billion euro European research hub could be based in Ireland). That among many other issues, I think we are extremely conservative on all sides of the spectrum.

    Regarding the "Nationalist Movement", thankfully, as far as I am aware, no one has ever been elected to the Dail on the basis of an anti-diversity agenda. I can't see a party like that ever taking off here either, unlike in the UK where there is (imo) a much stronger anti-diversity, racist undertone. Much to do with the "British" way and their history. Make of that what you will.


    our political landscape is a terminally centrist - idealogical free zone , their is no hard left or right with any serious support , ULA are a protest vote , you could not compare FG to the torys in the uk or the republicans in the usa , their all populist in one shape or form who rely on various interest groups to keep them affloat , me feinism rules in ireland


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Scortho


    Id see myself as right winged on the economic side so free trade non intervention by the state, privatisation etc but left wing when it comes to immigration, abortion gay marriage etc. Where ever that puts me I have no idea, but it becomes a pain in the arse when explaining to people that no Im not a Nick Griffin follower....anyhow rant over...

    These people aren't going to go anywhere and I don't think we have anything to worry about. However as Ireland is for Freedom of Speech, we can't stop the likes of Nationalist Ireland and the DRM from voicing their opinions, Just like we cant stop the Socialist Party or ULA from voicing theirs.

    I don't see them getting to much support. Whether they like it or not, Ireland is to reliant on the rest of the world for trade. As we learned the hard way, we're not the best at self sufficiency!

    Id also query whether these guys would accept life saving medical treatment from a doctor who wasn't Irish?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Ugh.
    That's not what "nationalism" means, and these people are doing true nationalism as much of a disservice as communists who apply the mere 'socialist' label to themselves, thus discrediting the entire left wing with the communist label.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Scortho wrote: »
    but left wing when it comes to immigration, abortion gay marriage etc. Where ever that puts me I have no idea, but it becomes a pain in the arse when explaining to people that no Im not a Nick Griffin follower....anyhow rant over...

    I think wanting open immigration may be a policy favoured by the economic Right/Libertarians as different to the conservative right, the economic Left may be in favour of better treatment of the poorer "working classes" but immigration can also have a negative effect on the groups they claim to represent by increasing competition and driving down wages*.

    I actually think Ireland is rather more left wing in general than people think and in terms of social conservativism, its a bigger thing than just abortion or gay marriage (meaning that there's plenty of places that are as socially conservative or more so than Ireland with relaxed laws/attitudes to this issue)



    * This is a very basic view and I'm sure there's arguments that immigration can increase economic growth therefore increasing conditions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    Right, Just registered, lets see how long it takes to get banned. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    I spent ages watching videos on the website trying to work out some kind of an angle that might account for these extreme views. There is one video that does appear to show a kind of an anomaly on the face of it, (can't remember whether it was on the NationalistIreland website or the DRM series of videos on youtube, which does show evidence of non-EU workers being granted citizenship here, while at the same shows evidence of young Irish people emigrating for want of work. But the only thing it might suggest is that Irish people may still be unprepared to do certain jobs that non-EU workers will do, especially in the case of college graduates, they may feel that a job in Supermacs or Woodies is not what they studied hard for, whereas someone new in the country might not have these kind of issues with taking up a lower paid job. This is the only reason I can see for non-EU folks still coming to Ireland while at the same time Irish people are leaving in greater numbers all the time it would seem. I'll see if I can post up the video I saw.

    In any event, it doesn't present any evidence of "they are coming in here and taking all our jobs". It does present evidence that maybe Irish people are leaving here in the pursuit of better jobs I think, when I say "better jobs" I mean jobs more suitable to someone who feels they have gone through the process of getting themselves qualified for a particular job, college degree, etc...

    here's another website I came across, styling themselves the Irish Nationalist Brotherhood, this appears to be what emerged when the DRM closed down...

    http://www.inbeire.com/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    It's actually laughable looking at the "dispute" that has emerged between these two associations. This all started out as the Direct Right Movement (DRM), where the two individuals who formed this group, fell out and went their own way.

    The remnants of that dispute resulted in two organisations:

    http://www.nationalistireland.com

    http://www.inbeire.com

    Then on the other side of the coin completely, you have a group on the left, opposing these two groups, calling itself AFA Ireland, (Anti Facsist Ireland), who monitor these two groups and other individuals who may step in and out of this political field from time to time:

    http://afaireland.yolasite.com/news.php

    It's all actually like something out of a Fr. Ted episode when you sit back and look at the characters involved!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    Scortho wrote: »
    These people aren't going to go anywhere and I don't think we have anything to worry about. However as Ireland is for Freedom of Speech, we can't stop the likes of Nationalist Ireland and the DRM from voicing their opinions, Just like we cant stop the Socialist Party or ULA from voicing theirs.

    There is an horrible undertone of racism, derived from our lack of multiculturalism historically, which could be tapped into but I don't think these guys are capable of doing that. I am to the right when it comes to economics but I am more than happy to welcome anyone into this country. We need to break the chains of our monocultural past.
    Scortho wrote: »
    Id also query whether these guys would accept life saving medical treatment from a doctor who wasn't Irish?

    I heard an interview with one of these guys on late night radio a few weeks ago and the interviewer posed a similar question to that. The individual responded by saying that he would far prefer if it was an Irish doctor or white doctor but would take the medical care from the other doctor as a "last resort".


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    lets hope afa keep them quite


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=13259


    Very good thread on this, with some mre detail on the characters behind these fascist groups.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    ...is it only a matter of time before someone connected with these ideologies carries out a Breivik type massacre in this country?
    I don't think so. For example, the Immigration Control Platform have been around for ages and still haven't managed to drum up significant support.
    [Jackass] wrote: »
    I can't see a party like that ever taking off here either, unlike in the UK where there is (imo) a much stronger anti-diversity, racist undertone.
    I wouldn't agree with that at all. Sure, there are problems in the UK, many of them stemming from poor social planning post-WWII.

    However, in my opinion, the bar for what is considered racist is much lower in Ireland than it is here. For example, I have encountered a number of people in Dublin (not a huge number, but significant) who will refuse to get in a taxi with a black driver - there's no way you'd get away with that in London. Furthermore, I personally have encountered racism on a disturbingly regular basis in Dublin (even though, bizarrely, I'm white and Irish - the individuals in question thought I "looked foreign"), but just the once so far in London.

    I accept that all of the above is purely anecdotal, but the point is that racism most definitely exists in Ireland - it's no better or no worse than anywhere else and it's dangerous to pretend otherwise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ Jasiah Silly Roster



    here's another website I came across, styling themselves the Irish Nationalist Brotherhood, this appears to be what emerged when the DRM closed down...

    http://www.inbeire.com/

    If you watch the first video on that website, around 2:35 he starts talking about how he would implement a policy whereby a " married working man with a family" would get a higher wage than a single man with no family who both do the same job, simply because one is married and has a family.

    I've honestly never ever heard a more stupid or ill thought out policy in my, admittedly, young life.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭serfboard


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    If you watch the first video on that website, around 2:35 he starts talking about how he would implement a policy whereby a " married working man with a family" would get a higher wage than a single man with no family who both do the same job, simply because one is married and has a family.
    He obviously has no clue about the tax system. Though both receive the same salary, the married man takes home more money anyway through tax credits because he is married with a family.

    Imagine the scenario ...

    Him protesting: "Married men with kids should take home more money than single men".

    Anyone with sense: "They already do".

    Him: "Oh .. that's grand so" (puts down placard and walks away).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 930 ✭✭✭poeticseraphim


    An Coilean wrote: »
    Right, Just registered, lets see how long it takes to get banned. :)

    Maith an Cailín ;):)

    Guys the far right racists are either opportunists out to make a buck or they are mentally ill or just have something wrong with them.

    There is no logic ....they are sick people...

    You have to approach the person not the issue...we KNOW racism is wrong....

    So the question I always ask is ...what is wrong with you???
    I accept that all of the above is purely anecdotal, but the point is that racism most definitely exists in Ireland - it's no better or no worse than anywhere else and it's dangerous to pretend otherwise.

    Agreed...and what i find disturbing is that Ireland seems t be more in denial than other places...it is no more or no less racist than anywhere else ....but it does not discuss this or admit to it.



    I think a lot of racist bullying goes on. And especially by the public of those who work in retail. And sometimes in the workplace.

    There is no national anti-racism dialogue really. It is not like the UK where there are anti-racist interest groups etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    You have to approach the person not the issue...we KNOW racism is wrong....

    So the question I always ask is ...what is wrong with you???


    Well here is the responce I got: .

    Anti-racists, multiculturalists, and race-denialists are, in a real sense, mentally ill, whereas those of us who are self-consciously and proudly ethnocentric are mentally healthy. And, because so much of the mental energy of anti-racists is drained away in internal conflict, other things being equal, we "racists" are stronger, happier, and more capable of transforming the world. Xenophilic and oikophobic behavior is generally a sign of deformed character, frustrations, or psychological deviancy.



    It seems I am psychologicaly deviant. :(:D


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The extreme right were always in Ireland, particularly the extreme socially conservative type and sure we had the blueshirts in the 1930s did we not. :)

    What we see now is the emergence of a pan european right which is neonazi in character. At least one prominent Irish discussion website ( not this one) seems to attract quite a few of these posters although there is no proof they are all 'in' Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    What I'm a bit confused about is that we have, probably for the first time in our history, due with the popularity of the internet, a small collection of people who are openly & clearly identifying themselves in terms of who they are, where they live, and what they look like. At the same time, they are broadcasting what are openly racist views.

    I'm fairly sure you couldn't organise a protest in O' Connell Street and openly state these kind of outrageous views and opinions, without being arrested pursuant to some incitement to hatred crime by Gardai. I don't see how broadcasting these views openly on the internet, makes someone immune in any way to being charged in this way.

    I've done the quickest bit of research on Google into the legal position here in this country with regard to incitement to hatred, this is what I've found...


    A 27 year old man has appeared in court in Killarney as the first person in Ireland to be charged under Section 2 of the Incitement to Hatred Act over materials he published on the social networking website Facebook.
    kissane-300x224.jpgArticle in Star on Pat Kissane. Click to enlarge.

    Mr Patrick Kissane produced a page entitled ‘Promote the use of Knacker Babies for shark bait’, wherein he suggested:
    “Instead of using animals for shark bait, they could use knack babies.
    “Also as food at feeding time in the zoo.
    “And for testing new drugs for viruses”.
    In the sitting at Killarney Courthouse, he appeared on a charge of “actions likely to stir up hatred”.
    The case has been adjourned for directions from the Director of Public Prosecutions and will recommence on July 19.
    Pavee Point was a primary complainant in the case and involved the Garda Racial and Intercultural Office from the outset. Information on the sites has been gathered from a number of sources, including Changing Ireland, the magazine of the Local and Community Development Programme, the Northern Ireland Council for Ethnic Minorities, the Irish Traveller Movement, Waterford Traveller Development Group and Kerry Traveller Development group.
    Changing Ireland was the first publication to break the story.


    Source: http://paveepoint.ie/2011/04/man-faces-court-over-incitement-to-hatred-through-facebook/


    Legislative act can be found here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/index.html


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    What I'm a bit confused about is that we have, probably for the first time in our history, due with the popularity of the internet, a small collection of people who are openly & clearly identifying themselves in terms of who they are, where they live, and what they look like. At the same time, they are broadcasting what are openly racist views.

    The best example of course is Breivik but a sociopath like Breivik could appear anywhere in Europe today and it would not surprise me one whit were the next Breivik ( and his victims) to turn out to be Irish.

    As to whether these internet creations will form a recognisable party and march and demonstrate and get elected and garner votes, don't make me laugh.

    But they can do a lot of damage in/from relative isolation and they make noise out of proportion to their overall scale on the Internet, mind you so do yoof wings of normal Irish parties and those dreadful racist Israeli settlement apologists who are outside the purvey our legal system etc. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The best example of course is Breivik but a sociopath like Breivik could appear anywhere in Europe today and it would not surprise me one whit were the next Breivik ( and his victims) to turn out to be Irish.

    As to whether these internet creations will form a recognisable party and march and demonstrate and get elected and garner votes, don't make me laugh.

    I extremely doubt a Breivik like incident occurring in Ireland during our lifetime. We're a country of approx 4.5 million, the odds of it happening here are slim to nil in comparison to other European countries especially when taken into account

    1) Our extremely tight gun laws

    2) The Troubles has lead to anything that can be used as an explosive in effect being heavily monitored and hard to come by in large amounts.

    Obviously criminals don't play by the law but if we examine how Breivik went about his plan we can see 2 problems

    1) He used a Ruger Mini-14. Have to jump through hoops to get something similar here in Ireland and you're restricted to a 5 clip magazine.

    2) He used a fertiliser / fuel combination for the explosives. Due to the Provo's history of trying to blow up half the top right corner of Ireland with the stuff, it's heavily monitored.

    I wouldn't underestimate movements like these and simply laugh them off. The BNP and EDL are generally laughed at but they're big enough to cause problems for many in the Britain.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    RMD wrote: »
    I
    I wouldn't underestimate movements like these and simply laugh them off. The BNP and EDL are generally laughed at but they're big enough to cause problems for many in the Britain.

    I didn't laugh them off, I laughed off their ability to form a coherent party and to get a councillor or two elected.

    You on the other hand laughed off their ability to acquire an AnFo deployment capability and some hardware and I wouldn't do that.


  • Site Banned Posts: 95 ✭✭Debator


    The OP found a few racist websites based in Ireland after some googling. Hardly an epidemic.

    If a racist wishes to broadcast their views on Boards.ie, they're banned. What does this solve? Nothing. Does it make the racist change their views? No. A better tactic would be to engage these people and demonstrate how their arguments hold no water. As is done to the Sinn Fein activists on this site on a regular basis. (They always keep coming back for more ass-whooping though! :p )

    This isn't Orwell's 1984. You can't suppress thoughts. By Boards not allowing open discussions on race and engaging these racist organisations, they are driving the movements underground. Hence numerous racist websites popping-up elsewhere on the Internet. These people will simply resort to other methods, such as graffiti or even violence, to get their message across if Boards continues to suppress them. I'm not endorsing theses websites, I'm just explaining why they exist.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    What I'm a bit confused about is that we have, probably for the first time in our history, due with the popularity of the internet, a small collection of people who are openly & clearly identifying themselves in terms of who they are, where they live, and what they look like. At the same time, they are broadcasting what are openly racist views.

    I'm fairly sure you couldn't organise a protest in O' Connell Street and openly state these kind of outrageous views and opinions, without being arrested pursuant to some incitement to hatred crime by Gardai. I don't see how broadcasting these views openly on the internet, makes someone immune in any way to being charged in this way.

    I've done the quickest bit of research on Google into the legal position here in this country with regard to incitement to hatred, this is what I've found...


    A 27 year old man has appeared in court in Killarney as the first person in Ireland to be charged under Section 2 of the Incitement to Hatred Act over materials he published on the social networking website Facebook.
    kissane-300x224.jpgArticle in Star on Pat Kissane. Click to enlarge.

    Mr Patrick Kissane produced a page entitled ‘Promote the use of Knacker Babies for shark bait’, wherein he suggested:
    “Instead of using animals for shark bait, they could use knack babies.
    “Also as food at feeding time in the zoo.
    “And for testing new drugs for viruses”.
    In the sitting at Killarney Courthouse, he appeared on a charge of “actions likely to stir up hatred”.
    The case has been adjourned for directions from the Director of Public Prosecutions and will recommence on July 19.
    Pavee Point was a primary complainant in the case and involved the Garda Racial and Intercultural Office from the outset. Information on the sites has been gathered from a number of sources, including Changing Ireland, the magazine of the Local and Community Development Programme, the Northern Ireland Council for Ethnic Minorities, the Irish Traveller Movement, Waterford Traveller Development Group and Kerry Traveller Development group.
    Changing Ireland was the first publication to break the story.


    Source: http://paveepoint.ie/2011/04/man-faces-court-over-incitement-to-hatred-through-facebook/


    Legislative act can be found here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/index.html

    That case was later dismissed, http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/facebook-traveller-rant-was-a-onceoff-2893087.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    Debator wrote: »
    The OP found a few racist websites based in Ireland after some googling. Hardly an epidemic.

    If a racist wishes to broadcast their views on Boards.ie, they're banned. What does this solve? Nothing. Does it make the racist change their views? No. A better tactic would be to engage these people and demonstrate how their arguments hold no water. As is done to the Sinn Fein activists on this site on a regular basis. (They always keep coming back for more ass-whooping though! :p )

    This isn't Orwell's 1984. You can't suppress thoughts. By Boards not allowing open discussions on race and engaging these racist organisations, they are driving the movements underground. Hence numerous racist websites popping-up elsewhere on the Internet. These people will simply resort to other methods, such as graffiti or even violence, to get their message across if Boards continues to suppress them. I'm not endorsing theses websites, I'm just explaining why they exist.

    First of all, I don't support any political party in this state, but SF who you have referred to, are a democratic party which is open to people of any persuasion or race as far as I am aware...


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2



    Anyway, over the weekend, I was doing some family tree research via Google and happened to wander across a few websites that I actually found to be alarming in terms of the clearly racist content and the extreme views openly stated by contributors:

    Another organisation styling itself the DRM (Democratic Right Movement), their website is down but there are numerous youtube video clips promoting crazy policies to do with immigration control, etc.

    It occurred to me after having had some time to digest all of this content that I discovered, that is it only a matter of time before someone connected with these ideologies carries out a Breivik type massacre in this country?


    Imagine it. Extremest nationalists in Ireland!

    Can add them to Saor Eire, Saor Uladh, INLA, 32CSM, Eirigi, OnhE, PIRA, IPLO, UDA, UVF, etc

    And extremist nationalists in Ireland don't go on Breivik massacres... they assassinate, abduct and bomb... but no shooting sprees.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Debator wrote: »
    The OP found a few racist websites based in Ireland after some googling. Hardly an epidemic.

    If a racist wishes to broadcast their views on Boards.ie, they're banned. What does this solve? Nothing. Does it make the racist change their views? No. A better tactic would be to engage these people and demonstrate how their arguments hold no water. As is done to the Sinn Fein activists on this site on a regular basis. (They always keep coming back for more ass-whooping though! :p )

    This isn't Orwell's 1984. You can't suppress thoughts. By Boards not allowing open discussions on race and engaging these racist organisations, they are driving the movements underground. Hence numerous racist websites popping-up elsewhere on the Internet. These people will simply resort to other methods, such as graffiti or even violence, to get their message across if Boards continues to suppress them. I'm not endorsing theses websites, I'm just explaining why they exist.

    I've kind of arrived at this opinion as well. Driving these people underground leads to sites like Stormfront where other people can be drawn in and brainwashed. Better to let them spout their rubbish and show up their opinions to the world as the garbage it is.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Imagine it. Extremest nationalists in Ireland!

    Can add them to Saor Eire, Saor Uladh, INLA, 32CSM, Eirigi, OnhE, PIRA, IPLO, UDA, UVF, etc

    The Irish Nationalist side are not extreme right wingers where the Loyalist side include some of the most right wing individuals in all of the UK.

    IIRC the largest single branch of the UK National Front ( back 30 years ago) was in Coleraine.

    But Irish nationalism is not really right wing. Right wingers are not particularly Irish Nationalist either...it is more internationalist and mesoscaled by skin colour or economic standpoint.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 43,274 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Thread is about the extreme right in Ireland, keep it on topic please.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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