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Bye Bye Grants

2

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    Really? A car is an absolute student necessity?

    The grant is there to support a student in getting an education, not to fund their social life. Cars are a luxury and the grant should not be funding cars for students who are too bone lazy to walk to college or get the bus etc.

    If a student is using their grant to buy a car, they don't need the grant. They are clearly able to afford rent, bills and other college expenses.

    Look my final comment on the matter.

    Ive a close friends who has a car and had a 2000 euro loan to pay including insurance and pays 40 a weeks for the car. He works 18 hours on the weekend and 6 hours on a weekday and recieves a grant of 3000 for the year in three installments which covers accomadation. He also recieves 50 a week from his parents to help him along with college. Is there anything wrong with this?

    Also I know people with "nice" parents who have just given there children a car after the leaving cert and they recieve a grant. Is there anything wrong with this as well? Parents just nicer than other parents.

    Also other people I know with cars come from wealthy familys and they do not recieve a grant at all.

    If people work during college fair play to them for getting a job and should not be cut. Remember can get a nice car today for 1200 and parents usually help pay for it

    Theres a lot more to it than you think and some people are just lucky i guess


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭Hunchback


    My personal opinion is that going out is not a "right".



    I suspect that those students who go out every week or more than once a week have absolutely no groceries in their cupboards, toiletries in their bathrooms, washing powder for the washing machine, don't buy christmas presents, don't have dependents, neglect their dental issues, substitute food for alcohol, struggle with rent, run out of oil in winter, circumvent bin charges, and do not acquire any new personal possessions (unless they work)



    I understand generalisation. It expresses a frustration I frequently feel myself . But it's a lazy way out and never reflects complexities.

    Basically I know where you are coming from OP, but the "apparent" quality of life of those in receipt of a grant who go out all the time is prolly greater than the ACTUAL quality of life.

    P.S. you cannot receive a maintenance grant at the same time as being in receipt of a back to education allowance, that was done away with in budget 2011 ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭Hunchback


    My personal opinion is that going out is not a "right".



    I suspect that those students who go out every week or more than once a week have absolutely no groceries in their cupboards, toiletries in their bathrooms, washing powder for the washing machine, don't buy christmas presents, don't have dependents, neglect their dental issues, substitute food for alcohol, struggle with rent, run out of oil in winter, circumvent bin charges, and do not acquire any new personal possessions (unless they work)



    I understand generalisation. It expresses a frustration I frequently feel myself . But it's a lazy way out and never reflects complexities.

    Basically I know where you are coming from OP, but the "apparent" quality of life of those in receipt of a grant who go out all the time is prolly greater than the ACTUAL quality of life.

    P.S. you cannot receive a maintenance grant at the same time as being in receipt of a back to education allowance, that was done away with in budget 2011 ;)

    To qualify this, I work to pay my mortgage (and the several associated expenses), travel 200 kms a week to and from college, and make the most of the 1250 per year ( approx 25? euro per week, pre-budget 2011/2012) I receive.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    Every student does not get a grant. I lived in a house in college with 4 others. I was the only one to get the grant of 3000. Two got a grant of roughly 900 and another didnt get a grant at all.

    Please remember every student does not get a grant and only get the 6000 one if you come from a very very poor background.

    I did go out drinking but a night out for me was 15 euro. A heap of cheap cans, go out at 12Am and a pint when I was out while some other students were in the student bar or another bar all day. Maybe there parents had money aside for there childs education or just very wealthy who give there child 200 a week or sumtin I dunno

    People here are branding every student under the same bracket which fustrates me. 90% of people who recieved the grant actually needed it that I knew because they wouldnt have been able to afford college.

    3000 grant just covers accomadation, other money I got came from parents as i could not get a job. No one in hell I could of affording college if i didnt get it. Some students are just better off than others.

    I feel for you situation Sir and should be docked tax on your wages if you apply to the revenue? The amount you are recieving is not right and should be recieving the 3000 mark


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,371 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    areyawell wrote: »
    Look my final comment on the matter.

    Ive a close friends who has a car and had a 2000 euro loan to pay including insurance and pays 40 a weeks for the car. He works 18 hours on the weekend and 6 hours on a weekday and recieves a grant of 3000 for the year in three installments which covers accomadation. He also recieves 50 a week from his parents to help him along with college. Is there anything wrong with this?

    Also I know people with "nice" parents who have just given there children a car after the leaving cert and they recieve a grant. Is there anything wrong with this as well? Parents just nicer than other parents.

    Also other people I know with cars come from wealthy familys and they do not recieve a grant at all.

    If people work during college fair play to them for getting a job and should not be cut. Remember can get a nice car today for 1200 and parents usually help pay for it

    Theres a lot more to it than you think and some people are just lucky i guess


    You're assuming that I mean no student should have a car. I don't. If you've worked for it or got it as a present fair enough. But there are students who are getting the grant and don't need it and using the grant to buy a car. They clearly don't need the grant to pay for rent, bills, food, which is what the grant is for. They are spending it on luxuries when it's meant for necessities.

    There are posts in this thread of examples of people buying games consoles, gambling with the grant who clearly don't need it. They shouldn't be getting it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭MarcusFenix


    Really? A car is an absolute student necessity?

    The grant is there to support a student in getting an education, not to fund their social life. Cars are a luxury and the grant should not be funding cars for students who are too bone lazy to walk to college or get the bus etc.

    If a student is using their grant to buy a car, they don't need the grant. They are clearly able to afford rent, bills and other college expenses.[/Quote]

    Ffs, your assuming that every student in the country lives away from home to go to college. I drove around 400km a week to college and if I didn't get the 3000 grant there's no way I could have afforded insurance And fuel. I think it's a very typical Irish view that a car for a young person is a luxury, watching too much tv?

    We live in Ireland not somewhere with proper public transport! Most of my class drove to college bar maybe 5, because that was the cheapest option

    I think my grant supported me getting my education, in the form of providing Transport.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    40040D wrote: »
    There are plenty of jobs out there we just need to look in the right places. Some of us, in particular my generation and the generations after ours have a terrible attitude to work anyway...Plenty of jobs available as cleaners ...But that attitude that "I'm not doin that", "the wages are too low" crap just shows how we are so used to things being handed to us.

    Stop the bull****...

    I've applied for everything, kitchen porter, call centres, barman, waiter, etc., but they don't get back to me. I send on average about 15 CVs off a week. Even then they're looking for experience. Many people I know are working in various places because of connections they have. And I live in Dublin where most of the jobs are supposed to be.

    And I'm doing a degree with loads of hours. An employer would sooner employ someone who can work during the week and not merely at weekends.

    I don't waste any money that I have either. I only went out twice last year and I don't drink much either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28 lady365


    people need these grants... not all ppl spend money on drink etc!!!
    not everyone has parents to fall back on...
    think before u speak!


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,371 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Ffs, your assuming that every student in the country lives away from home to go to college. I drove around 400km a week to college and if I didn't get the 3000 grant there's no way I could have afforded insurance And fuel. I think it's a very typical Irish view that a car for a young person is a luxury, watching too much tv?

    We live in Ireland not somewhere with proper public transport! Most of my class drove to college bar maybe 5, because that was the cheapest option

    I think my grant supported me getting my education, in the form of providing Transport.[/QUOTE]

    No, far from it. I lived at home when I was in college and I don't watch too much tv. There were plenty of students when I was in college driving from their student accommodation to campus which was no more than a 10 minute walk and they were receiving a grant.

    Again you're missing the point of my post. You used your grant for a car for transport and I would assume that this was a cheaper way for you to go to college than rent away from home. Fair enough. There are many students getting grants who do live away from home, and some who live at home and buy cars when they are not necessary like the ones I mentioned above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭hefferboi


    When I was in college I had 50 euro for the week. Spent 20 on groceries and went out once a week most weeks and twice a week some weeks. Going out in college isn't that pricey if you're not a full fool.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 AnswerMe!


    you're clearly just a very ignorant person to generalise all students like that! I'm in my first year of college and by god am I thankful for that grant. I get the full 6000 but not 1cent is wasted I'v been out 3 times since i started in Sept and without it there would be absolutely no hope of getting a college education. And before you start on about getting a job I did have one and they let me go but the money I was making wouldn't come anywhere close to covering everything anyway.
    so really all you want is for young people from disadvantaged backgrounds to have no chance of a career but to repeat the cycle of social welfare and council houses, would that not cost the government more? No?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24 fries


    So why isn't everyone getting out onto the streets more often? People Must protest frequently and more loudly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭hattoncracker


    I work 20 hours a week, and have college 24 hours a week, I earn approx €1,100 a month, I go to college in Limerick and I am from Ulster.. Living at home is Not an option, I'm a mature with rent, bills, and a car to pay for... I pay for everything myself.

    My grant is €130 a month... And I need it. And I had to fight to get it.
    OP I don't know when or where you went to college but times have changed.. I don't know one person in my course who can get a job. Times are tough. Look at the real world.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭Mr.Plough


    Ridiculous first post.

    I'm doing a masters atm with no grant, took out a loan with the credit union to pay for the fees. Work friday nights, all day and night saturday, and sunday nights, meaning no study on weekends i.e. in college until 10pm most nights. Zero social life, can't afford a car and theres no direct bus route to college so I cycle in and out which is 15km each way. Add in rent/esb/heating/phone bill/loan repayments and I'm barely able to eat. If I got a grant it most definitely would not be spent on gargle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,984 ✭✭✭✭Lump


    They should make it a student loan, like the system in the UK. Have a low interest loan that you need to pay back a percentage once you start earning a certain amount. I'm not saying it's better for the student, as I have friends that are still paying off their student loans (10 years after leaving uni!) but atleast it gives you the ability to go to uni and you can take the money or leave it, the choice is with the student.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭Groinshot


    Student loan is right.
    I don't get a grant, and pay for myself. I had a part time job up until two weeks ago, and quit so I can pass my exams. I've got 20-25 hours a week lectures, and had a job on top of that, paying minimum wage.
    I came out of both first and second year with 2:1 grades, and pitching higher this year, all with a job on top of that.
    I can live just fine on it, although most of my money goes on paying off the loan that I took out to go in the first place. So people who get the grant, who didn't work through college will come out better off than me...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭freeze4real


    Absolutely frickinn delighted that there's no grant, it should be scrapped totally, as it contributes to inefficiency in the economy.

    Grants should be based on a system on results and depending n what an individual gets a portion of the grants get allocated to them.

    I do know that its not everybody that uses the grant to fund their petrol for their cars etc, but they're some idiots as well who dont give a flipping ****, take the money and do nothing and mess about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,240 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Absolutely frickinn delighted that there's no grant, it should be scrapped totally, as it contributes to inefficiency in the economy.

    Grants should be based on a system on results and depending n what an individual gets a portion of the grants get allocated to them.

    I do know that its not everybody that uses the grant to fund their petrol for their cars etc, but they're some idiots as well who dont give a flipping ****, take the money and do nothing and mess about.

    Fúck this post. I don't drink and don't smoke, but still only got by. I wasn't able to receive a grant in college but still ended up spending a lot of money on books, food, essentials in the house at college.

    Some people do need to have fun. The thoughts of people not receiving a grant not being able to pay for internet, travel, heating etc in college is horrible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33 fordey101


    Hi All..
    As a former student in 2010/2011, I believe each student in receipt of a grant should have to pay it back when they start working. This would stop certain families not declaring their means when applying for a grant. The grant has not been cut , as the increase in fees is been covered while the student who as to pay it all is being penalised by another 250 euro. So students who receive grants should appreciate it that the taxpayer is funding them as it stands. It is these honest taxpayers children who don't receive a grant. If a student really wants to go to college they would be more willing to pay it back at the end of college.This would stop students wasting money in college when they don't even want to do the course.
    I am not saying every student parents is not declaring their means,just their a rather large proportion of the self employed and farming community children who are in receipt of grants that do not deserve it.

    What exactly does that mean??


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    This thread is absolute bollox. If a person has a part time job why should they not get the grant? Fair play to them for getting the job and working through college. They pay taxes, and should be entitled to it. All this high and mighty talk about scrapping grants alltogether by some posters is an utter disgrace and get off your high horse. Most students dont get the full grant, I did and doesnt even cover living expenses. Maybe these people who have cars worked full time during the summer? took a year off and saved for college? came from wealthy families. From the sounds of the first post are you sure that they are all getting grants? Maybe there parents bought them for them? U Sir are an idiot and is people like you that I cannot stand - RANT OVER! I agree with the moderator above though that a certain percentage should be taken out of your wages when you start working to stop some of the time wasters living it up for a year!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    meoklmrk91 wrote: »
    I pay all my own bills, including keeping my car on the road to get me up and down to college.
    :eek::eek::eek::eek:

    Things have changed since my day ! Back then there was one guy in my degree course with a scooter - he was the posh one - that was it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    professore wrote: »
    meoklmrk91 wrote: »
    I pay all my own bills, including keeping my car on the road to get me up and down to college.
    :eek::eek::eek::eek:

    Things have changed since my day ! Back then there was one guy in my degree course with a scooter - he was the posh one - that was it!

    Well considering I live 45 miles away from college I doubt a bicycle is going to hack it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭pinkdiamond


    I have to move to Manchester next week until September to work a minimum of 40 hours a week, a minimum of 5 days a week. I don't want to go. I want to stay at home in Galway, but I have no choice because I have to save my money over there to pay for my fees, for the bus to college and books.

    Tell me this: why is it fair that I have to do this, when someone in the EXACT same position as me gets it FREE?

    My friends on the grant have gone to California on J1 cos they don't need to save anything. Like me, they live at home during the college year. I would have liked to gone with them.

    As my dad is self-employed, he had to buy a second house to rent out when he retires as his self-made pension- so my parents have two mortgages and three kids in college.

    Screw the grant. If students are that badly off, what's the problem with taking out a student loan??


  • Registered Users Posts: 38 innominat


    I am going back to school as I have been unemployed for 2 years. I live in rural area so jobs a scarce and I dont have the money to support myself while I job search in Dublin or other cities. People would work if there where jobs. And I will do anything im not fussy.
    I will not receive a grant to go back to school and I will have to pay for degree and live on what I have saved.
    I think grants should be available to people as not all people can afford college. I do agree loans are an option but young people should not be sadled with huge debt to get an education. If grants are scrapped then fees should be kept to a reasonable amount.
    Iv met many americans who average 20,000 or more in student loans and some in top schools paying out 40,000 a YEAR in fees I dont want Ireland to head that route.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭pinkdiamond


    The difference is that registration fees are not costing €40,000 a year. They cost €2,500.

    If your serious about college- you will be able to get a job afterwards where a €10,000 loan can be paid off within a few years at no great stretch.

    If I hadn't got a job in Manchester for the rest of the summer, I'd probably be taking out a loan to cover my fees. So why is it fair that some students have to take out loans while others get off paying registration fees altogether?

    And how are so many of ye so narrow-minded? "Education is not only for the rich" Do ye think that just because some of us students don't receive the grant- we are rich!? Would it not make us poorer because we actually have to use our own money to pay for our fees?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Andy-Pandy


    I get the grant, last year I got about €2400, and this is pretty much what i had to live on for the academic year. I am in my mid 30's and i do not get the back to education allowance due to the fact that i worked as a bicycle courier for about €300 a week right up until i went back to college. I was paying PRSI and income tax for nearly 20 years previously. I believe that i am fully entitled to it.

    On the other hand I know people that did the smart (but unfair) thing. They quit there jobs and signed on about 6 months before they started their degrees. They now get €188 a week that i can only dream about.

    Not sure where this post is going, it just seems an unfair system that does not reward people who try to do the right thing. Last year I had a 6 month work experience to complete, every single other mature student in my class was able to continue getting their €188 a week during this time, but because i was unable to be available for full time work, i received nothing, and had to struggle by for 6 month's with out a penny (accommodation and a small amount of food was given to be during the work experience).

    Not quitting my job and going on the dole before i went back to college is one of the biggest regret of my college years. I've the same to look forward to next year. The only plus side i have is that this summer ive no work experience to complete and for the first time since i started my degree i am able to work for money and not for free, and should have a bit of cash saved to help me out this year.

    It's all been worth it though, going back to college is the best decision ive ever made.


  • Registered Users Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Viva La Gloria


    I had a part-time job all throughout my degree, doing at least 20 hours 3 days a week and I still managed to get a first by giving up my social life completely and spending nearly all of my free time in college. I got €780 maitenance from the council in my final year and really wasn't expecting that at all because I had the job, but my parents' income has been reduced greatly over the last few years, especially since my Dad got a 15% pay cut and was reduced to a three day week. So I used the grant money to buy a couple of books, a travel card, and then the rest as rent to my parents.

    I'm hoping to do a masters in September and because it's going to cost €8,000, I'll need to get a loan from the bank because the most I'll be able to get grant-wise will be €2,000 if I'm lucky. My job won't even cover much because I also have a car and need to keep that running and am trying to give my parets rent money because I'm 24 and still living at home.

    It really does frustrate me that there are people who get grants and who squander it on utter ****e instead of what they're supposed to use it for, and some of them rarely even come to class...such a pain. I wish there was some sort of condition based on attendance but I don't know how that could be implemented. But at the same time, there are also a lot of people who use their grant money wisely and for the right purpose.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭Mudmask


    I get the €6000 grant and I only get it because my circumstances are so bad. I would LOVE to be able to pay my own way or be supported by my parents but it just isn't possible.
    Even though I get the full grant, I am still dreading go back to college in September because I know I'll still be in debt or seriously stuck!!
    As for getting a job, I have literally been applying for them left right and center.
    So people saying that the grant should be scrapped are talking rubbish. I think being paid social welfare every week would be much more expensive than helping me get an education so I'll be able to get a job for myself in the future.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    @pinkdiamond - May as well scrap the dole and put doctors,teachers,gardai on minimun wage as well sure. When you get a job the now the amount of tax people pay for the rest of there lives will have the grant paid of in a couple of years. The grant is needed, the bank will rarely give out loans these days to anyone unless they have some sort of income. Stop talking crap cause you had to work. boo hoo! Without the grant I would have not been able to go to college, would be working in a supermarket somewhere


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  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭silversky


    I am not saying every student parents is not declaring their means,just their a rather large proportion of the self employed and farming community children who are in receipt of grants that do not deserve it.

    So true, I've seen it in numerous colleges. The people who don't need the grant are getting it handed into their hand. Grand for them they can do up their accounts in a certain way but for the normal joe soap who actually needs the grant...well we're fecked.


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