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Who cares About northern Ireland?

2

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    Dr Galen wrote: »
    I think an awful lot of people with an interest in NI, kid themselves about how much others care about the situation or indeed anything to do with NI in general.

    Very much agree.
    I also find Irish people do this with Britain.

    Britain occupies a position of high importance in Irish history and in the Irish mindset.
    Many Irish people seem to believe it's the same in reverse...


  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭RubyRoss


    Riots during marching season is a ‘dog bites man’ story at this stage. The London riots were ‘man bites dog’ and earned huge coverage.

    Also, I think many people in the South now see the trouble areas of the North as being just that – trouble areas no different to similar sections of the Republic’s cities.

    I dip into Northern radio & TV sometimes and wonder how the public there do not revolt against the constant barrage of conflict related content. It makes me think fondly of LiveLine and people outraged by parking, ticket pricing and other such grievances of ordinary life.

    These annual scuffles just hi-jack normal society – it is a good thing we do not pay more attention to them. One poster compared it to coverage of the Syrian conflict – these are TOTALLY different circumstances.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    RubyRoss wrote: »
    Riots during marching season is a ‘dog bites man’ story at this stage. The London riots were ‘man bites dog’ and earned huge coverage.

    Also, I think many people in the South now see the trouble areas of the North as being just that – trouble areas no different to similar sections of the Republic’s cities.

    I dip into Northern radio & TV sometimes and wonder how the public there do not revolt against the constant barrage of conflict related content. It makes me think fondly of LiveLine and people outraged by parking, ticket pricing and other such grievances of ordinary life.

    These annual scuffles just hi-jack normal society – it is a good thing we do not pay more attention to them. One poster compared it to coverage of the Syrian conflict – these are TOTALLY different circumstances.

    Are these riots just random acts? Or are they symptoms of a larger problem. I remember in the euphoric post gfa days when people were saying that's it the troubles are over they will never darken northern Ireland again, now those same people are holding thier breath expecting the troubles to ignite any minute. As the provies said To thatcher after the Brighton bomb ' you have to be lucky all the time, we just have to be lucky once' same thing applys to the do called dissidents. Thier bombs have got larger and more sophisticated, so far we have been lucky in intercepting them, again they just have to be lucky with just one


  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭RubyRoss


    That's true but the dissidents are a tiny minority who attempt to hijack social and political life. To give them publicity is to give them undue legitimacy.
    These are the only people who want to go backwards.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    junder wrote: »
    To be honest that kind of sums up my experince of people in the republic, they just don't care about northern Ireland (speaking as a unionist that's not a bad thing) guess it comes down to understanding, while I can grasp the general flow of politics in the republic, because I don't live there I don't get the different nuances of political goings on in the republic, I Think that's the same in regards to northern Ireland, for people on the republic
    I'm a bit doubtful by your OP and the post above, I have many relations in the six counties met innumerable people from there etc. Not trying to insult you, but it's a contradiction that unionists have to come on to .ie forums (boards.ie, politics.ie ) etc to discuss politics. Try and discuss NI with some English people :eek: You may as well be talking to a Swiss or Estonian person for all the ordinary English person cares !!!!!

    And also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpret from your OP that your trying to say you personally openly discuss in the north about NI's politics in the pub after work, on the train, in college or whatever. Are you seriously going to tell me that you would openly raise a controversial topic in the presence of nationalists an issue like the trouble in Ardoyne and the orange march :eek: ?? ??


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,931 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I'm a bit doubtful by your OP and the post above, I have many relations in the six counties met innumerable people from there etc. Not trying to insult you, but it's a contradiction that unionists have to come on to .ie forums (boards.ie, politics.ie ) etc to discuss politics. Try and discuss NI with some English people :eek: You may as well be talking to a Swiss or Estonian person for all the ordinary English person cares !!!!!

    And also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpret from your OP that your trying to say you personally openly discuss in the north about NI's politics in the pub after work, on the train, in college or whatever. Are you seriously going to tell me that you would openly raise a topic in the presence of nationalists from any side of the border issues like the orange order marching wherever it liked or claim that the unionist state or wasn't sectarian or whatever :eek: ?? ??

    Oh For Fcuk Sake

    I'm out

    Good thread while it lasted


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    Oh For Fcuk Sake

    I'm out

    Good thread while it lasted
    Oooooops, I seem to have upset the cozy love in, back to let's ignore the elephant in the romm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,931 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Oooooops, I seem to have upset the cozy love in, back to let's ignore the elephant in the romm.

    Well the elephant in the room is that even though they are not killing each other any more NI society is becoming more segregated.

    Great piece in the Boston Globe from a few years back about the very thing
    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/03/14/a_segregated_peace/?page=full

    People in the South tend to just ignore NI as a result of the perception that everything is rosie, and possiblty due to being tired of the same old s**t when something does blow up (not literaly)

    But what is the use in having an tried old "it's the Brits/OO/your fault.." type swipe at another poster that you know is of a certain persusaion when all we are discussing is if people are interested in NI or not ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,650 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    people in the south tend to ignore the north because many of them cant see how it relates to them. the fact its a big chunk of land on the top of the same small island people in the south live on, seems to bypass many. Personally I find that amazing ... but then again, not too surprising.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    Well the elephant in the room is that even though they are not killing each other any more NI society is becoming more segregated.

    Great piece in the Boston Globe from a few years back about the very thing
    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/03/14/a_segregated_peace/?page=full

    People in the South tend to just ignore NI as a result of the perception that everything is rosie, and possiblty due to being tired of the same old s**t when something does blow up (not literaly)

    But what is the use in having an tried old "it's the Brits/OO/your fault.." type swipe at another poster that you know is of a certain persusaion when all we are discussing is if people are interested in NI or not ?
    Sorry I don't know why you have interpreted my post as blaming anyone, the gist of my post was asking the OP would he openly raise a controversial topic such as orange marches or the sectarianism of the past in the presence of nationalists.

    And as for elephant's in the room - let's not mention the British army were murdering people also, let's pretend it was just "they" i.e. the unionists and nationalists, while little Tommies who joined up for 3 meals a day and some pocket money were helping old ladies across the road etc


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,931 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Sorry I don't know why you have interpreted my post as blaming anyone, the gist of my post was asking the OP would he openly raise a controversial topic such as orange marches or the sectarianism of the past in the presence of nationalists.

    And as for elephant's in the room - let's not mention the British army were murdering people also, let's pretend it was just "they" i.e. the unionists and nationalists, while little Tommies who joined up for 3 meals a day and some pocket money were helping old ladies across the road etc


    But again you are trying to drag this thread down the same old route that will result in a clusterF**k.

    The thread title is 'Who cares About northern Ireland?', what does the actions of British army did during the troubles have to do with that ?

    If you want to discuss who did what then why not open a thread about it ?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    But again you are trying to drag this thread down the same old route that will result in a clusterF**k.

    The thread title is 'Who cares About northern Ireland?', what does the actions of British army did during the troubles have to do with that ?
    Your the one who brought in the subject of "they" and killing and obviously ignored the British ones.
    If you want to discuss who did what then why not open a thread about it ?
    Ok I have changed the question to - are you seriously going to tell me that you would openly raise a controversial topic in the presence of nationalists an issue like the trouble in Ardoyne and the orange march :eek: ?? ??


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,931 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Your the one who brought in the subject of "they" and killing and obviously ignored the British ones.

    Typical of the pedantry you find on NI threads here, someone jumping all over the precise terms people use in their posts in order to steer the conversation down a certain route.
    Ok I have changed the question to - are you seriously going to tell me that you would openly raise a controversial topic in the presence of nationalists an issue like the trouble in Ardoyne and the orange march :eek: ?? ??

    What's wrong with have that type of discussion ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,274 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    I'm a bit doubtful by your OP and the post above, I have many relations in the six counties met innumerable people from there etc. Not trying to insult you, but it's a contradiction that unionists have to come on to .ie forums (boards.ie, politics.ie ) etc to discuss politics. Try and discuss NI with some English people :eek: You may as well be talking to a Swiss or Estonian person for all the ordinary English person cares !!!!!

    And also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpret from your OP that your trying to say you personally openly discuss in the north about NI's politics in the pub after work, on the train, in college or whatever. Are you seriously going to tell me that you would openly raise a controversial topic in the presence of nationalists an issue like the trouble in Ardoyne and the orange march :eek: ?? ??

    I don't get that impression at all, more that when he does talk to people from the South N.I. politics doesn't come up much. I'm sure the OP will clarify.

    Mod note
    It would be nice to discuss the OP without going over the usual topics ad nauseam. Please stick to the topic in the OP without going over the usual "well they did this" lines, we all know where it leads.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    junder wrote: »
    To be honest that kind of sums up my experince of people in the republic, they just don't care about northern Ireland (speaking as a unionist that's not a bad thing) guess it comes down to understanding, while I can grasp the general flow of politics in the republic, because I don't live there I don't get the different nuances of political goings on in the republic, I Think that's the same in regards to northern Ireland, for people on the republic
    I'm a bit doubtful by your OP and the post above, I have many relations in the six counties met innumerable people from there etc. Not trying to insult you, but it's a contradiction that unionists have to come on to .ie forums (boards.ie, politics.ie ) etc to discuss politics. Try and discuss NI with some English people :eek: You may as well be talking to a Swiss or Estonian person for all the ordinary English person cares !!!!!

    And also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpret from your OP that your trying to say you personally openly discuss in the north about NI's politics in the pub after work, on the train, in college or whatever. Are you seriously going to tell me that you would openly raise a controversial topic in the presence of nationalists an issue like the trouble in Ardoyne and the orange march :eek: ?? ??

    You assume alot and are totally wrong, the reason I raised the subject ( and it was out of genuine interest, not malicious intent) is because living in northern Ireland, I am aware of things happening that in the context of northern Ireland are very important and yet don't get discussed on this site, I am curious about that, nothing sinister about that. Is it lack of knowledge ( which can be remedied) or because they don't care ( which is fair enough)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    But again you are trying to drag this thread down the same old route that will result in a clusterF**k.

    The thread title is 'Who cares About northern Ireland?', what does the actions of British army did during the troubles have to do with that ?
    Your the one who brought in the subject of "they" and killing and obviously ignored the British ones.
    If you want to discuss who did what then why not open a thread about it ?
    Ok I have changed the question to - are you seriously going to tell me that you would openly raise a controversial topic in the presence of nationalists an issue like the trouble in Ardoyne and the orange march :eek: ?? ??

    All depends on the context of the conversation and the enviroment. I was involved in a political youth programme were I represented the youth wing of a political party and met with other people who represented youth wings of most of the political party so yes we did discuss controversial subjects. While I was at universty my circle of friends was diverse, including a good friend who was a member of the workers party and was interned so, yes again topics relevant to northern Ireland were talked about. Correct me if I am wrong but this a politics forum, a good place to talk about politics, including northern Irish politics maybe? Would a strike up a conversation on a controversial subject with a random person I met on the bus or in a pub, of course not


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    junder wrote: »
    You assume alot and are totally wrong, the reason I raised the subject ( and it was out of genuine interest, not malicious intent) is because living in northern Ireland, I am aware of things happening that in the context of northern Ireland are very important and yet don't get discussed on this site, I am curious about that, nothing sinister about that. Is it lack of knowledge ( which can be remedied) or because they don't care ( which is fair enough)
    Ok good reply. The thing is - and I 'm not trying to insult or stir anyone up - is that NI/Stormont is a glofied regional council, the main action happens in parliament Westminster or down here the Dail. NI has got a similiar population to greater Dublin* 1.8 million. Now I used to watch Hearts and Minds most weeks, but quite a lot of the issues that used to arise were by any standards were fairly local and trival eg the allocation of housing in a new estate in Belfast etc

    Take todays UTV news** - Ardoyne gunman caught on camera, Quinn's no-show nephew to be arrested ( on RTE also), Shotgun found by Antrim children etc Now let's see RTE*** - Peter Darragh Quinn Seán Quinn Jnr to be jailed, 12 shot dead at Batman premier in Denver, HSE writes to hospitals over implementing cuts etc So apart form the Quinns, to look at 2 of the UTV main stories - Ardoyne gunman caught on camera and Shotgun found by Antrim children, their both fairly minor trival stories. Doubtless today in Dublin their will be an armed robbery, a court will pass judgement on a gangland murder, both fairly minor trival stories also. The thing is apart from the Quinns, their isn't a lot as per the UTV news for people to get into a big discussion on boards.ie is there ? For example I don't expect people in the rest of the country to get into a big discussion on say, Eirigi Dublin city councillor Louise Minihan going to prison for seven days for not paying a fine. and likewise most of the stories from the north.

    * See Greater Dublin 1,804,156. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin#Demographics
    ** http://www.u.tv/news
    *** http://www.rte.ie/news/


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    junder wrote: »
    All depends on the context of the conversation and the enviroment. I was involved in a political youth programme were I represented the youth wing of a political party and met with other people who represented youth wings of most of the political party so yes we did discuss controversial subjects. While I was at universty my circle of friends was diverse, including a good friend who was a member of the workers party and was interned so, yes again topics relevant to northern Ireland were talked about. Correct me if I am wrong but this a politics forum, a good place to talk about politics, including northern Irish politics maybe? Would a strike up a conversation on a controversial subject with a random person I met on the bus or in a pub, of course not
    Yes. And I have been inumerable times in the north, have relations there etc. Have taken part in various political discussions etc ( one with a member of the PUP and former loyalist prisoner - whom on personal level I got on quite well with due to our common interest in sport !!! Can't say we seen eye to eye on politics though ;):) ) But it takes place in, a let's say, neutral controlled enviorment with a pre arranged meeting or with close friends or relations. But still I wouldn't go into a nationalist pub on the Falls and turn around to a stranger and say " how do you think things have gone since the Good Friday Agreement " etc

    Down here you could strike up a random conversation with almost anyone, though it would probably take the line " Jayus the crowd that are in now are little different than Ahern and Fianna Fail before them....... Ah sure their feckin' all crooks regardless " etc If I told them I was a United Left Alliance voter, you'd probaly get " well your ok with your objections, but I'm afraid to say Joe Higgins or Boyd Barret don't seem to have the answers or alternatives".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    junder wrote: »
    Sonething I have noticed on this forum over the few years I have posted on this site, is the news / information about significant events in northern ireland never gets talked about. An example being the riots at arydone this year. Is due to not caring, not hearing or just general exasperation about the northern Irish situation?

    Over exposure fatigue for me, have been hearing about NI all my life. The more I hear and see of the peoples representatives and certain organisations the less I want to know really. In the context of NI recent history is a riot even news? Seems to be a somewhat regular past time "Let's have a day out throwing petrol bombs at the police/shinners" which ever applies. There's never a shortage of fancy words, and always they get lost in the detail and revert to form. If NI decides to be serious about growing up and leaving the past behind then I might be interested, until then they can keep the squabbling to themselves.

    Honest opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    johngalway wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    Sonething I have noticed on this forum over the few years I have posted on this site, is the news / information about significant events in northern ireland never gets talked about. An example being the riots at arydone this year. Is due to not caring, not hearing or just general exasperation about the northern Irish situation?

    Over exposure fatigue for me, have been hearing about NI all my life. The more I hear and see of the peoples representatives and certain organisations the less I want to know really. In the context of NI recent history is a riot even news? Seems to be a somewhat regular past time "Let's have a day out throwing petrol bombs at the police/shinners" which ever applies. There's never a shortage of fancy words, and always they get lost in the detail and revert to form. If NI decides to be serious about growing up and leaving the past behind then I might be interested, until then they can keep the squabbling to themselves.

    Honest opinion.

    Again its about context. A riot on its own not it self news. However in this particular riot we had armed men on the streets ( worth noting a certain mr Colin Duffy was seen at the arydone) after the gfa there's things stopped happening even riots were rare, surly it's note worthy in itself that even people in the republic have yet again become used to violence in northern Ireland.


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  • Site Banned Posts: 385 ✭✭pontia


    i turn off the tv when the norths mentioned,best thing that could happen is it sinks into the sea,it wouldent be missed by us or the brits


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    pontia wrote: »
    i turn off the tv when the norths mentioned,best thing that could happen is it sinks into the sea,it wouldent be missed by us or the brits

    It bloody would, you know. Some of us have family there.

    Apart from personal connections I used to be more confident about unification but I realise now that's unlikely in this lifetime. I'd be more supportive of an independent 6 counties, we have our Republic and that's enough for me.

    But I'd like to see some kind of lasting peaceful, inclusive solution in NI. People who come out with that sink/float off in the sea - I've heard that for years. I even heard some ass come out with it at a funeral where a number of folk from up North were present. Very ignorant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    junder wrote: »
    Again its about context. A riot on its own not it self news. However in this particular riot we had armed men on the streets ( worth noting a certain mr Colin Duffy was seen at the arydone) after the gfa there's things stopped happening even riots were rare, surly it's note worthy in itself that even people in the republic have yet again become used to violence in northern Ireland.

    No idea who Colin Duffy is, honestly don't care who he is.

    All I can tell you is I was born in 1978 and all my life have been hearing about NI on the news, radio, or in newspapers.

    I am used to violence happening in NI, I think most my age would be. Personally I've never been under the assumption that it could, or would, never return to NI, so my view of NI has never changed.

    I genuinely would be more surprised at positive large actions between the people up there than riots or shootings.

    It's just gotten "old" for me, at the heart of it whether it's bombs, negotiations or marches, it boils down to the same two sides disagreeing and various levels of action coming from those disagreements.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    johngalway wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    Again its about context. A riot on its own not it self news. However in this particular riot we had armed men on the streets ( worth noting a certain mr Colin Duffy was seen at the arydone) after the gfa there's things stopped happening even riots were rare, surly it's note worthy in itself that even people in the republic have yet again become used to violence in northern Ireland.

    No idea who Colin Duffy is, honestly don't care who he is.

    All I can tell you is I was born in 1978 and all my life have been hearing about NI on the news, radio, or in newspapers.

    I am used to violence happening in NI, I think most my age would be. Personally I've never been under the assumption that it could, or would, never return to NI, so my view of NI has never changed.

    I genuinely would be more surprised at positive large actions between the people up there than riots or shootings.

    It's just gotten "old" for me, at the heart of it whether it's bombs, negotiations or marches, it boils down to the same two sides disagreeing and various levels of action coming from those disagreements.

    We were all used to the violence, we then had a brief point in time when we hoped the violence was over, we even had a generation that grew up not knowing violence. We got used to there not being violence, now we are used to violence again, not only that, you in the republic are also used to violence in northern Ireland again. That's saying something.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    For me, Northern Ireland is, like the past, a foreign country- not so much in the physical sense, but culturally and socially and politically. I take an interest in the overarching narrative, but the nitty gritty incidents and events, especially when they involve atavistic tribalism, would begin to wear me down if I took anything other than a passing interest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    junder wrote: »
    We were all used to the violence, we then had a brief point in time when we hoped the violence was over, we even had a generation that grew up not knowing violence. We got used to there not being violence, now we are used to violence again, not only that, you in the republic are also used to violence in northern Ireland again. That's saying something.

    Funny you should mention hope, my girlfriend put up the saying about the best trick the devil ever had was to make people think he didn't exist (or however it properly goes).

    Yesterday I was thinking about hope and those that offer false hope. Offering false hope is possibly worse than offering no hope.

    So is God worse than the Devil given the world in which we live and the things that happen there.

    Again I can only give my personal opinion based on what I've read, heard, seen to do with NI, including visiting the place. That is I have not allowed myself to believe in hoping the violence was over.

    While people pour out of NI in July, while kerb stones get painted, while numerous flags fly, while areas are ghettoised, I can't believe in what may be a temporary thing.

    It will take generations, literally, of trusting and building before NI is anywhere near normal. That's not meant as an insult to anyone, but there are many instances where it can be backed up from the Jean McConville crime to that idiot mistaking the Italian flag for the Irish flag and making a fool out of himself.

    I'm too long in the tooth to believe in miracle spot changing leopards. The way of life and thinking needs to be bred out of the place to become normal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,191 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Our interest is not reciprocated. The NI news on UTV and BBC-NI almost never mentions anything here in the ROI unless there is a NI aspect to it. The only exception is the odd Donegal story.

    Have to agree with this. BBC Newsline go out of their way to avoid giving a bit of weather that's outside the 6 counties.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭losthorizon


    Regarding the original question - I wish NI would just go away.

    I pray to God there will never be a United Ireland and thats from someone who was fairly nationalist.


  • Site Banned Posts: 385 ✭✭pontia


    i dont like the north,the people from there,even the accent,would it be missed if gone in morning,i doubt it,very bored of listening about it,we dont want it anymore than the brits do


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,191 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    I think since the recession hit people are naturally more interested in thing that will personally affect them so there will always be more interest in what is going on this side of the border and what our own Government is doing.
    I ofton watch their news though, and noticed they made a big deal of some road project being downsized as the money our Government was to put up for it just ain't there anymore.
    Personally I think as long as the British claim it then it is up to them to fund it, not us.


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