Service with a Snarl

jor el · 17-12-2008 2:57pm

Walkman wrote: »

A DD needs to be cancelled by both the customer and the company, if you as a disgruntled customer simply cancel the DD the company can just reinstate it (this is not done by someone in the company trying tp piss you off but is an automatic process and part of the billing cycle).

Where to start, pretty much all of that is wrong. The bank account holder has full control over direct debits on the account. Nobody, no bank, and no company, can start or stop direct debits, without the account holders permission. If a company reinstates a canceled direct debit, the bank should refuse it. If they don't, then both bank and company are breaking the direct debit scheme rules, as set down by the IPSO. The customer should inform the originator, but it's not a requirement, as the Bank will do this anyway.

It has however happened, due to staff ignorance or apathy, and nothing has ever been done about it.

The bank should not honour a direct debit that has been canceled by the customer.

Direct Debit Rules wrote:

Cancelling and amending a direct debit instruction.
o The payer can cancel or amend the Direct Debit instruction at any time by informing their Bank in writing. They should also inform the Originator. All correspondence should be retained.
o The payer’s Bank will then inform the Originator of the cancellation or amendment.
o If the instruction is cancelled no further collections are permitted.
o If it is established that an unauthorised Direct Debit was charged to a Payer’s account the Payer is guaranteed a prompt refund by their Bank.

Walkman wrote: »

The DD runs on a "tape" i.e. the company will automatically request payment from the bank and the bank will honour the DD request.

Not if it's against the customers wishes.

Walkman wrote: »

It is a Standing Order which can be cancelled by a customer alone.

You have the same control over a Direct Debit.

Walkman wrote: »

Also if there is not enough money in a customes account to meet a DD payment (Once for some companies twice for others) the DD automatically stops to ensure the customer does not get hit by the bank for charges (anywhere from €5.50 to €7) per missed payment, at this instance the payments will revert to cash and the customer need to reinstate the DD with both the bank and company.

If enough funds are not present in your account, then a lot of banks will overdraw your account, they will generally not stop the direct debit. Even if it doesn't go through, and you're account is not overdrawn, the direct debit will still be in place, and normally several attempts will be made to debit the requested amount.

Currently, companies that are "trusted" by the IPSO, can set up direct debits, without the customers signature. They are supposed to have permission though, and these companies often use this "trust" to abuse the system, and reinstate direct debits that they know were canceled. This is a matter for the IPSO and the Financial Regulator to deal with, which neither has. It may also be a matter of fraud, and something to be investigated by the Gardai, all it will take is someone to report it to the fraud squad.

There is a perception in this country, that companies are entitled to take money from your account, simply because the use a legal scheme (direct debit). Direct debits are simply a convenience for companies, and also for customers, as it means you don't miss payments. They are not an entitlement for a company to take money from you, without first having authorisation, and also having provided the appropriate notification.

Taking money by direct debit, when it's neither authorised or owed, is theft, plain and simple, and no different to someone forging your signature on a stolen cheque and passing it off as yours.

Mcfast · 17-12-2008 3:11pm

Sizzler wrote: »

Just watched it there. Unreal. The DELL story was particuarly disturbing it has to be said

it defo was.some of the stories you could kinda understand computer errors and failing to fix it but the dell thing had a really twisted side to it with the privacy invasion and the rudeness.being hung up on cos shes a girl(decent looking girl to!

) like wtf?the call center must be outsourced i assume?did they give any reason for not being able to provide the next bisness day warranty?im pretty sure that costs extra with dell.i would have liked to have heard more about the story.

thought the jackie skelly thing was good but what was the customers problem?did i miss that or did they only talk about the employees issues?

Darragh29 · 17-12-2008 3:18pm

Mcfast wrote: »

it defo was.some of the stories you could kinda understand computer errors and failing to fix it but the dell thing had a really twisted side to it with the privacy invasion and the rudeness.being hung up on cos shes a girl(decent looking girl to! ) like wtf?the call center must be outsourced i assume?did they give any reason for not being able to provide the next bisness day warranty?im pretty sure that costs extra with dell.i would have liked to have heard more about the story.

thought the jackie skelly thing was good but what was the customers problem?did i miss that or did they only talk about the employees issues?

Someone should tell Hibernian that this is what they'll be getting into when they outsource their back office support to India!

Mcfast · 17-12-2008 3:20pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

Someone should tell Hibernian that this is what they'll be getting into when they outsource their back office support to India!

was it in india? jaysus thats mad.how do companies think its a good idea

jor el · 17-12-2008 3:31pm

Mcfast wrote: »

was it in india? jaysus thats mad.how do companies think its a good idea

It's cheap + they don't care.

Mcfast · 17-12-2008 3:35pm

thats insane.id hit the roof if anyone did that to my gf.in fairness to the dell girl she was quiet good natured about it and seemed very likeable and genuine.most of the people on it came across as really bitter

lol@the ucd lecturer saying if you have a 20 year old graduate you cant trust him to use there own discretion.he must be doing some great teaching

eth0_ · 17-12-2008 4:24pm

311 wrote: »

Can't believe someone from dell was looking at someones photos.

Great programme ,should get the masses up of their asses.

I was absolutely astounded at how NTL refused to apologise or really accept much responsibility for the monumental f**k ups covered on the show.
I guess they know they'll never be in a situation where people will desert them because a lot of customers don't have the option to get Sky, so they can treat customers like dirt and get away with it :-(

I was really surprised about the Dell "engineer" in India browsing a customers photos while supposedly troubleshooting. He should have been sacked instantly and the Dell statement merely said it was "unfortunate" and was against their rules.

Sizzler · 17-12-2008 5:08pm

Mcfast wrote: »

was it in india? jaysus thats mad.how do companies think its a good idea

It's all the rage, especially at this time of year

ednwireland · 17-12-2008 5:45pm

funny that dell story i have a bunch of dell gear here at work and find the service fairly good i've had server support take over systems and fix problems even last night had a system that started with the cpu fan full on and then nothing and had a guy in india sort it wasnt a particularly difficult problem (in fact if i'd seen the tiny error lights i would have copped it myself) i was then passed to a supervisor and asked if everything was allright and if i could understand teh technician ok, so at least dell seem to be concerned about this (eircom indian support for me have been the hardest to understand.

Darragh29 · 17-12-2008 5:55pm

Mcfast wrote: »

was it in india? jaysus thats mad.how do companies think its a good idea

Yeah if you ring Dell customer service, your call is answered in India. Dell don't have a customer service centre in Ireland, it's all done from India. I had to do it once and swore never again... It's all very well saying you want to cut business costs are are moving your customer service to India but from what I've read on the subject, a lot of companies end up moving back when they discover that their customers will go elsewhere when they have to talk to someone thousands of miles away who cannot actually resolve their problem for them and there is a language gap or at least there certainly was when I called Dell last time.

Darragh29 · 17-12-2008 5:56pm

ednwireland wrote: »

funny that dell story i have a bunch of dell gear here at work and find the service fairly good i've had server support take over systems and fix problems even last night had a system that started with the cpu fan full on and then nothing and had a guy in india sort it wasnt a particularly difficult problem (in fact if i'd seen the tiny error lights i would have copped it myself) i was then passed to a supervisor and asked if everything was allright and if i could understand teh technician ok, so at least dell seem to be concerned about this (eircom indian support for me have been the hardest to understand.

Even getting through to a human is next to impossible with Eircom. That talking robot that answers when you call 1901 is the most frustrating thing I've ever had to deal with. The whole system is designed to prevent you actually getting talking to a human.

bigpinkelephant · 17-12-2008 5:59pm

I would have enjoyed the programme more if the presenter wasn't such a whingebag. He just seemed like a bit of a prick.

17-12-2008 6:06pm

The program that dell use to fix computers is very handy.
I rang them up and while I was talking to a guy (indian) ,he was using my computer.
The odd thing about it was ,he had control over the security pop ups(user account control) in vista.
Couldn't believe how open my system was ,by downloading a simple utility from dells site.

Darragh29 · 17-12-2008 6:12pm

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

I would have enjoyed the programme more if the presenter wasn't such a whingebag. He just seemed like a bit of a prick.

To be honest, I think RTE are overdoing it recently with all the negativity. Some of what they covered on that show was not fit to be brodcast. I can't understand what point they were trying to make about Jackie Skelly. They had customers on the program who appeared to have no issue with their membership, or if they did have an issue, it wasn't raised on the program. The only point I could see for bringing Jackie Skelly into the discussion was to allow an ex employee get a dig at the business.

There were issues with Dell, but all these people have the Small Claims Court to resort to if they have a grievance, I wonder how many of them bothered their arse going down that road??? Probably not a single one.

I'm personally sick of turning on the TV and seeing pure negativity coming at me. It's bad enough we have a recession to handle without giving every muppet with a grievance, a national soapbox to stand on.

We have state institutions to deal with breach of contract, at a very affordable cost through the Small Claims Court. People should have to exhaust this avenue at least before they get airtime for petty grievances.

Mcfast · 17-12-2008 6:28pm

did the programme give info on how far the people had gone?i heard someone say theyd called 150 times and another 40 or so? i think?not sure bout others.but id call that fairy exhaustive.id agree most of them seemed a bit petty.how many of them smiled at all or laughed about it?but tbh i dont think prime time were fixing there issues?

edit-also what you said earlier about issues, the small claims court wont cover crap customer service which i thought was what the programme was about.there were some things there that i would like to know about as a consumer, like push the fat button at skellys, dell looking through private files and not being able to stand up to there warranties, direct debits be re set up,etc

17-12-2008 6:38pm

I thought the programme was mainly set at putting people at ease ,who thought they were doing something wrong.

Not everyone uses boards to get advice on problems like these.

Darragh29 · 17-12-2008 6:42pm

Mcfast wrote: »

did the programme give info on how far the people had gone?i heard someone say theyd called 150 times and another 40 or so? i think?not sure bout others.but id call that fairy exhaustive.id agree most of them seemed a bit petty.how many of them smiled at all or laughed about it?but tbh i dont think prime time were fixing there issues?

edit-also what you said earlier about issues, the small claims court wont cover crap customer service which i thought was what the programme was about.there were some things there that i would like to know about as a consumer, like push the fat button at skellys, dell looking through private files and not being able to stand up to there warranties, direct debits be re set up,etc

No, but if they had gone as far as they could have gone with the Small Claims Court, I imagine their problem would have been resolved. All the issues on this program involved a breach of contract, possibly with the exception of Jackie Skelly.

kcb · 17-12-2008 7:11pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

No, but if they had gone as far as they could have gone with the Small Claims Court, I imagine their problem would have been resolved. All the issues on this program involved a breach of contract, possibly with the exception of Jackie Skelly.

Why should someone have to go to Small Claims to get some clown in a call centre to do their job properly?

It seemed to me that the problem with Jackie Skelly was that there were no responses to customers queries. I find this infuriating also. And people are completely within their rights to complain about it.

More people should make official complaints, get a reference for the complaint and if they are not satisfied with the action taken by the company forward it to ComReg.

Darragh29 · 17-12-2008 7:19pm

kcb wrote: »

Why should someone have to go to Small Claims to get some clown in a call centre to do their job properly?

It seemed to me that the problem with Jackie Skelly was that there were no responses to customers queries. I find this infuriating also. And people are completely within their rights to complain about it.

More people should make official complaints, get a reference for the complaint and if they are not satisfied with the action taken by the company forward it to ComReg.

Yeah but why didn't the program elaborate upon these "queries", in the case of Jackie Skelly??? I imagine it was because they signed up to a gym, and 2 months later decided that they didn't want to be members anymore because they were not attending the gym and wanted to cancel their membership. Sorry, if you sign up to a contract, you sign up to the terms and conditions.

People in this country like whinging but ask them to do something constructive like go to the Small Claims Court or even write a letter outlining their complaint and they will look at you like you've ten heads. RTE in my opinion should not be giving a national soapbox to serial whingers. OK, some people on that program did have a genuine grievance, but they also should exhaust the proper channel for resolving these type of issues before being given national airtime and giving the rest of us a headache...

Red Alert · 17-12-2008 8:51pm

I was a bit disturbed by the Smart telecom thing - presumably it's against the free market to allow a developer ban purchasers of apartments from choosing their preferred TV/Voice/Data provider?

eth0_ · 17-12-2008 9:23pm

The NTL thing was a bit odd, the guy who said he wasted 10 days of annual leave waiting for an engineer to come and connect his cable.

What a fool. After the 2nd time i'd have cancelled and rung Sky!

Mcfast · 17-12-2008 11:43pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

Yeah but why didn't the program elaborate upon these "queries", in the case of Jackie Skelly??? I imagine it was because they signed up to a gym, and 2 months later decided that they didn't want to be members anymore because they were not attending the gym and wanted to cancel their membership. Sorry, if you sign up to a contract, you sign up to the terms and conditions.

People in this country like whinging but ask them to do something constructive like go to the Small Claims Court or even write a letter outlining their complaint and they will look at you like you've ten heads. RTE in my opinion should not be giving a national soapbox to serial whingers. OK, some people on that program did have a genuine grievance, but they also should exhaust the proper channel for resolving these type of issues before being given national airtime and giving the rest of us a headache...

to be fair how do u know they didnt exhaust all other opportunitys?how do you know the gym customers wanted out of a contract?seems like your making up your own story here.i have to wonder if you are so annoyed by the show why didnt u turn it off

ChickCool · 18-12-2008 12:22am

id agree the dell one was worse,surprised they didnt spend more time on it.it had the worst of everything-broken product,non existant support,lying bout technician,broke terms of warranty,computer breaks again and they get a replacement and that breaks to!not to mention the privacy invasions of the photos etc.if that was me id be going beserk

SaintHubbins · 18-12-2008 12:55am

I contacted UPC to get broadband and cable installed in my house, took the day off work and the engineer never turned up. Called them back and after waiting for 1/2 hr I was put thru to some snotty yoke who said I didn't have an appointment. I rescheduled an appointment (no apology from them I might add) and had to take another day off. When the engineer finally turned up, he said that because it's rented accomodation he couldn't drill a hole in the wall to install the cable as he would need written permission from the landlord, something I could have been told over the phone if they had the brains to ask. Then when he was leaving he reversed over my mother as she was walking up my driveway and didn't even bother to stop to see how she was. When I called upc again, somebody farted into the phone and hung up. I just can't fathom the disrespect this company shows to it's customers! (some events have been dramatized)

I hate UPC more than any other company - bunch of arseholios. I once was trying to disconnect their cable service and the tard who I spoke with asked incredulously what I was going to do for telly like I was the biggest weirdo in the world. I told her I'd read a book. About telly. Agree about Dell as well - there's definitely a language barrier and the last time I called there was a lag too - very frustrating as I was trying to do a system restore and needed some assurance that I was doing it correctly. Vodafone are a bunch of millipops as well. I've had a couple of screw ups when topping up via AIB and the credit didn't go on my account. When I called them each time they say that it's problem in the link between AIB and Vodafone and I'll get the credit when the money is transferred. Meanwhile I'm looking at money that has gone out of my account with nothing to show for it. They always say that they will call you back to keep you updated but never do and the only way I have ever got this issue solved was to lose the rag, call them a bunch of thieves and threaten everything from joe duffy to keith duffy. Everytime I've freaked out they give me credit straight away, so obviously they can fix things immediately but don't. It usually happens then that I get the credit twice when the original top-up finally turns up. Nice!

My advice if you are having a slight bad experience is go nutso straight away. Irish people are far too polite and we need to remember that the customer is always right.

Darragh29 · 18-12-2008 6:42am

Mcfast wrote: »

to be fair how do u know they didnt exhaust all other opportunitys?how do you know the gym customers wanted out of a contract?seems like your making up your own story here.i have to wonder if you are so annoyed by the show why didnt u turn it off

Well they clearly didn't because if they did there would have been no need to air the said problem on the national airwaves.

If they did exhaust the usual procedure and their complaint wasn't upheld, then I don't agree that they should have been given a platform to whinge about it on RTE.

What I don't know about the Jackie Skelly customers was what their problem or grievance was at all. This cannot be said for the Dell & NTL customers. In the absence of any actual issue raised on the program, I've come to the not unreasonable conclusion that they just wanted to cancel their membership and found that they couldn't do this due to their contractual obligations. Terms & conditions go both ways and at the end of the day, these people have a business to run.

I've a few businesses and the thoughts of ending up on RTE, being completely vilified on the same basis as happened Jackie Skelly, on that program sends a shiver down my spine. They were completely spat on by an ex employee who clearly had a chip on her shoulder with regard to her previous employer. Did we get to hear about a single complaint or issue on the part of a customer??? No, we didn't...

Mcfast · 18-12-2008 10:05am

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well they clearly didn't because if they did there would have been no need to air the said problem on the national airwaves.

If they did exhaust the usual procedure and their complaint wasn't upheld, then I don't agree that they should have been given a platform to whinge about it on RTE.

What I don't know about the Jackie Skelly customers was what their problem or grievance was at all. This cannot be said for the Dell & NTL customers. In the absence of any actual issue raised on the program, I've come to the not unreasonable conclusion that they just wanted to cancel their membership and found that they couldn't do this due to their contractual obligations. Terms & conditions go both ways and at the end of the day, these people have a business to run.

I've a few businesses and the thoughts of ending up on RTE, being completely vilified on the same basis as happened Jackie Skelly, on that program sends a shiver down my spine. They were completely spat on by an ex employee who clearly had a chip on her shoulder with regard to her previous employer. Did we get to hear about a single complaint or issue on the part of a customer??? No, we didn't...

So in the absence of info u assume the customer is wrong and an ex employee with a manual is also wrong?great customer service u must give!the skellys customers were both people who wanted to cancel and couldnt get any response from skellys.

as i said i thought the dell person in particular came across well and not bitter like some of them.the presenter said hed contacted dell in sept about that girl and her comp is still broken?if they dont pay attention to prime time i doubt the small claims court would be much better.rte didnt give them a platform,rte were making a show and seeked out people for it.i think what your annoyed at is the prospect of u/your business ending up on prime time,not that people with bad experiences are on it.if u search for any of the buisnesses on boards youll find a huge amount off complaints and crap service,its not just one bitter customer theres tons.theres clearly probs with the service that hopefully theyll look at now there getting caught out

Darragh29 · 18-12-2008 10:15am

Mcfast wrote: »

So in the absence of info u assume the customer is wrong and an ex employee with a manual is also wrong?great customer service u must give!

If the program is going to name and admonish a business on national airwaves, I think the least I would expect is that the case against that business is made clear and the facts are presented to viewers in a transparent and objective manner. This might have happened with the Dell & NTL customers, then they move onto Jackie Skelly and there is no evidence of a customer having a complaint at all against this particular business.

Mcfast wrote: »

as i said i thought the dell person in particular came across well and not bitter like some of them.rte didnt give them a platform,rte were making a show and seeked out people for it.i think what your annoyed at is the prospect of u/your business ending up on prime time,not that people with bad experiences are on it.if u search for any of the buisnesses on boards youll find a huge amount off complaints and crap service,its not just one bitter customer theres tons.theres clearly probs with the service that hopefully theyll look at now there getting caught out

I would have no problem with a customer of mine ending up on RTE slating me if I let them down time and time again. I would have a huge problem getting slated on the same basis as Jackie Skelly's business did on that program this week. There was no evidence of any lack of service standards or any actual issue that involved a breach of contract on the part of the business to the customer. If this is how they are going to approach customer based programming, it will not be long before they end up in the High Court and guess who will be paying for it, that's right, the TV licence payer!!!

syklops · 18-12-2008 5:26pm

the groutch wrote: »

notice how bt, smart, perlico were all involved, but not eircom
eircom might be more expensive, but it's worth paying the extra for the superior service imo

I assume your being sarcastic. Either that or your an employee of Eircom. I was amazed Eircom was not mentioned and then the sarcastic(realist) part of my personality kicked in. Eircom is or was the National telecoms provider. It would be very bad form for the National Broadcaster to slate the National Telecoms provider. In the same way it would be bad form for them to slate the National Airline.

Mcfast · 21-12-2008 3:33pm

i do think it was a good show.those awful companys need to be shown up and take some responsibility.in these times of recession companys need to pull up there socks.dont know how eircom/o2/ryanair didnt end up on it.is there any follow up show?

Mcfast · 23-12-2008 3:40am

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1215/primetimeinvestigates_av.html

Service with a Snarl

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