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Orange markers in Glenmalure and on Lug

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭Sev


    BarryD wrote: »
    There's a substantial difference between the terrain in the Swiss Alps (and many other continental mountain areas) and Irish hills and also in the ethos of the respective hillwalking/ mountaineering communities. Where we mostly have bog & heather, particularly in Wicklow - they have rock. Routefinding can be tricky in places and to assist on popular walks and up to mountain huts, they often mark trails. Our hills have different challenges but routefinding largely needs map reading skills and common sense - not paint markings.

    When in Rome, do what the Romans do etc.

    Sure, I'm not condoning it.

    And in the Swiss Alps, the people who mark the trails presumably have some authority to do it. My point is that there are cultural differences in people's attitudes to such things.

    Going by his name, he sounds European. He may not have understood or expected how seriously people take the offence in this country. His heart was in the right place presumably, if it is indeed a charity event. But he clearly needs to learn that other people like their outdoor trails free of orange paint.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,404 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    I've been asked by Helen Lawless to inform you all that the agreed date for the removal of the 'orange peril' as originally mentioned on the MI website was incorrect and is in fact the 14th of March and not the 7th March as previously mentioned. The website has been updated accordingly in the meantime.

    I'm assuming this is to give the parties concerned the time to both work out the best way of removing the marks properly and ecologically soundly, plus to give them time to actually carry it out. I suspect it's going to be a long job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭acorn


    Ironic that this should happen just as Mountaineering Ireland have finalised their "Policy and Guidelines for Organised Events in Ireland’s Mountain Areas"

    I hope this incident will make charity organisations much more aware of their obligation to plan fundraising events in a responsible manner.

    On another note, worrying that someone can set themselves up as a walking guide in an upland area without seemingly having due respect for their working environment.

    Even basic outdoor training in Girl Guides/Scouts not to mention Mountain Skills and Mountain Leader Training instil the "Leave no Trace" ethic as a core part all outdoor activities. While we grapple with the intricacies of magnetic deviation and aspect of slope, "leave no trace" is a welcome reprieve, simple, clear and idiot proof - LEAVE NO TRACE !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    Sev wrote: »
    Going by his name, he sounds European. He may not have understood or expected how seriously people take the offence in this country. His heart was in the right place presumably, if it is indeed a charity event. But he clearly needs to learn that other people like their outdoor trails free of orange paint.

    Agreed and let's hope he continues to enjoy the Irish hills as we find them. And we should continue to support charities in whatever way is suitable.

    Charity walking has become 'big business' in the last decade with a whole range of expeditions to suit all tastes and fitness levels. The way I see it, there are probably more good sides than down sides but people need to be aware of the ill effects and take steps to minimise them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,404 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Most things have been said already on this matter, but I'd just like to add that one thing that I think this whole case has proven is how seriously the relevant authorities take such matters when they're reported.

    I've been guilty in the past of taking the attitude of "there's no point in reporting these things, they won't do anything about them anyway", but this case, and another recent one where I called in a report to the WMNP rangers mobile number about a group of scramblers up around Lug who were apprehended on the way back down, proves that they do indeed take them very seriously.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,404 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    BTW Some handy numbers for your mobile when outdoors in Wicklow ...

    WMNP Ranger 0404 45800 (landline) or 087 980 3899 (on-duty ranger mobile)

    Illegal Dumping Hotline 1850 365 121

    Roundwood Gardai 01 281 8142


  • Registered Users Posts: 22 Road Bandit


    I'm hoping that when he starts to remove them, he works from the summit down, we wouldn't like to see him getting lost.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 quadsofflug


    Coming in the same week that RTE organised a hillwalk (via the John Murray Show) with over 1500 people in the Blackstairs it really makes me sad to think what the future of the hills is going to be like. And how can we influence people to see that groups of 1500 and bright orange paint don't belong on the hills.

    You can view the nationwide coverage below - it's very scary! http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1138322


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    Now in all fairness, there'd be quite a few degrees of difference between the radio show walk near Bunclody and the proposed charity trek up Lugnaquilla. The Bunclody walk was almost entirely along existing forest tracks. I wasn't at it but from what I hear, it was well enough marshalled and organised by the local Bunclody Loafers walking club, despite much larger numbers turning up than expected. So not really a fair comparison, at all!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Donny5


    BarryD wrote: »
    Now in all fairness, there'd be quite a few degrees of difference between the radio show walk near Bunclody and the proposed charity trek up Lugnaquilla. The Bunclody walk was almost entirely along existing forest tracks. I wasn't at it but from what I hear, it was well enough marshalled and organised by the local Bunclody Loafers walking club, despite much larger numbers turning up than expected. So not really a fair comparison, at all!

    Yeah, I think events that get people out onto forest trails are a great idea. There's already plenty of sedentary types. It's good to see people out and active.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18 quadsofflug


    BarryD wrote: »
    Now in all fairness, there'd be quite a few degrees of difference between the radio show walk near Bunclody and the proposed charity trek up Lugnaquilla. The Bunclody walk was almost entirely along existing forest tracks. I wasn't at it but from what I hear, it was well enough marshalled and organised by the local Bunclody Loafers walking club, despite much larger numbers turning up than expected. So not really a fair comparison, at all!

    I think you missed my point. I wasn't comparing the two or saying they were the same. I was trying to suggest that a very big change in the nature of how the hills are being used is happening. And no matter how well marshelled the event in Bunclody was it is a profound change from anything that might have happened in the Irish Hills 5, 10 or 15 years ago. We can't turn back the clock and go back to when only oddbods went hillwalking and there were no paths and no erosion but I do wonder if we can do more the protect the ethos of our activity - self relience is one obvious missing ingredient in both cases.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,673 ✭✭✭exaisle


    I climbed Lug from Fentons on the same day as the end of the 4-Peaks challenge in 2010. It was a horrible wet, windy misty day and we brought a map, compass and GPS.

    As things turned out, the organisers of the 4-Peaks Challenge had marked the route with alternate yellow and purple flags....visible from both directions, which they removed when the challenge ended.

    Clearly, some people could learn from this.

    I am appalled at the use of spray paint on any mountain and would support a litter prosecution for the perpetrators.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    And no matter how well marshelled the event in Bunclody was it is a profound change from anything that might have happened in the Irish Hills 5, 10 or 15 years ago.

    I'm not sure I entirely agree with you on that :) Reek Sunday has been around a long time where large numbers annually trek to summit of Croagh Patrick. And what about the old festival of Lughnasa, where it was commonplace for large numbers of country folk to gather on heights and celebrate the coming harvest??

    An event like the recent walk near Bunclody is not a lot removed from above.. mostly local community groups etc., not very many would venture further than the odd forest walk.

    But I do agree with you about loss of self reliance. Never mind large group walks, the mobile phone has really eroded this asset.


  • Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭DeepSleeper


    BarryD wrote: »
    I'm not sure I entirely agree with you on that :) Reek Sunday has been around a long time where large numbers annually trek to summit of Croagh Patrick. And what about the old festival of Lughnasa, where it was commonplace for large numbers of country folk to gather on heights and celebrate the coming harvest??

    An event like the recent walk near Bunclody is not a lot removed from above.. mostly local community groups etc., not very many would venture further than the odd forest walk.

    But I do agree with you about loss of self reliance. Never mind large group walks, the mobile phone has really eroded this asset.

    The lack of self reliance is a big problem amongst people walking on Irish mountains these days (and I say that as a member of a Mountain Rescue Team) - it is vital that people have the necessary abilities to navigate their way along their chosen route in any weather conditions.

    On the topic of Reek Sunday and large organised events, you have to admit that Reek Sunday is pretty exceptional - in fact, while thousands of people want to climb the Reek on that particular day, the big change there in recent years is the number of people wanting to climb it on other days - the Mayo MRT are now kept busy year-round with callouts on the Reek (where most of their callouts are located) as people walk it for fitness, for charity etc etc. - the 'hillwalking community' are slowly waking up to the reality that the hills are alive with growing numbers of people who just want to be active but who, in many cases, are not too interested in learing to navigate with map and compass (... they have their iPhone of course...:rolleyes:) or who are not too bothered about 'Leave No Trace' principles...

    In short, I agree with quadsofflug's post - the number and type of people on the hills has changed greatly in recent decades and two obvious outcomes are more erosion and more work for the MRTs, though perhaps these negatives are outweighed by the positive influence of the outdoors on a much broader spectrum of society than before??? I dunno...


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    the 'hillwalking community' are slowly waking up to the reality that the hills are alive with growing numbers of people who just want to be active but who, in many cases, are not too interested in learing to navigate with map and compass
    That's fair enough, and it'd be great to see "proper" paths and direction markers like you'll see on the continent. But these paths must be planned by competent authorities and agreed with whoever is the appropriate interested parties. It's not the job of one man with a spraycan.

    BTW I've come across some bits of tape and one orange jacket hanging on a pole (possibly as markers for the Art O'Neill walk considering where they are located) still on the mountains.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    hmmm wrote: »
    BTW I've come across some bits of tape and one orange jacket hanging on a pole (possibly as markers for the Art O'Neill walk considering where they are located) still on the mountains.

    I've often enough come across bits of tat like that when out & about on the hills. In some cases I've suspected the hill running community who have marked routes with wee wands and tape and then neglected to remove them all afterwards. But I think that's improved? Orienteers can also be at fault in the forest environment as it's common practice to mark control sites with ribbons etc., prior to larger events, tat again that's not always fully removed afterwards, when everyone is rushing to pack up after an event.

    But on subject of self reliance, I still think the mobile phone is the biggest change in recent years. When I started hillwalking, we just headed off for long treks across the hills, leaving a vague note behind. You learnt to navigate, route find and look after yourself or else you came unstuck, missed the bus and suffered a long painful walk to extricate yourself. Nowadays my kids can't move without their phones and can call at the drop of a hat. Yes, it's nice for reassurance and some peace of mind but at a loss of some self reliance. And I carry a phone myself now when out on the hills, but hopefully not to use.

    The phone really is a bit of a mixed blessing and one suspects that there are people who would not venture up some places, if they didn't have that potential back up in their pocket. Often heard it said in places like Fort William in winter, where there are good MRT's, that climbers (and walkers) will take on more ambitious routes that prudence might dictate otherwise. On the basis that they can always call for help.. So, a bit a loop going in situations like that. If you have good MRT, people will invariably use the service!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    There's a designated volunteer that goes around after each hill running race organised by IMRA to demarcate the course, and they just use ribbons.

    Around Crone at the moment there's currently a lot of similar tape but Coilte have put that down as they're harvesting around there at the moment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    I used to do a bit of hill running, when the knees were in better condition, so I'd have an idea of some of the routes used and markings. It's easy enough for someone to miss picking up a bit here & there, particularly in poor weather. No big deal - if it's obviously old, I just pick it up and stick it in the bag. There's much worse in terms of hill litter left behind..


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