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Can Astronomy Ireland really be considered an 'Astronomy club' anymore?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭kthnxbai


    aten wrote: »
    Where dose all the money go ? and do AI produce + circulate annual accounts?
    Ignore the many " money streams " in operation like membership fees, " pay to view" fees and lecture entrance charges etc. the star -b-q must be the biggest money spinner, last year AI boasted an attendance of approx 500 people @ € 40.00 per person this equated to € 20,000.00 - not bad for a few hours work !

    In all fairness, it's a lot more than a few hours work...

    The organisation that goes into an event like that is unbeleivable...

    Imagine all the marketing and advertising, as well as paying staff for doing all that work...

    Promotion and advertisements cost a ridiculous amounts at the moment.

    So when you say €20,000 for a few hours work, you're very very wrong...

    I'm just playing devil's advocate here.... Not defending them... just saying is all


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,357 ✭✭✭squonk


    kthnxbai wrote: »
    In all fairness, it's a lot more than a few hours work...

    The organisation that goes into an event like that is unbeleivable...

    Imagine all the marketing and advertising, as well as paying staff for doing all that work...

    Promotion and advertisements cost a ridiculous amounts at the moment.

    So when you say €20,000 for a few hours work, you're very very wrong...

    I'm just playing devil's advocate here.... Not defending them... just saying is all

    I really thought you were taking the piss here with this post... I admit I don't read the papers but the advertising I've seen has been mainly web based. They also have built up quite a large mailing list so they'll get to a lot of people that way. I don't think we're talking about a traditional advertising/marketing campaign here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭Linguo


    kthnxbai wrote: »
    In all fairness, it's a lot more than a few hours work...

    The organisation that goes into an event like that is unbeleivable...

    Imagine all the marketing and advertising, as well as paying staff for doing all that work...

    Promotion and advertisements cost a ridiculous amounts at the moment.

    So when you say €20,000 for a few hours work, you're very very wrong...

    I'm just playing devil's advocate here.... Not defending them... just saying is all

    staff do everything and dont get paid for doing after work activities so AI have it very sweet in there

    There isnt money spent on advertising, it relies on press releases and interviews


  • Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭murrayp4


    Thargor wrote: »
    Listen to this interview he did on Gerry Ryan after that big fireball was seen a while ago, its just embarrassing, and Gerry Ryan seemed to be encouraging it:

    http://www.astronomy.ie/audio/2FM_090406.mp3

    I'll never buy anything from them, their magazine is very amateurish compared to the alternatives aswell.

    Pretty shameless


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭quad_red


    murrayp4 wrote: »
    Pretty shameless

    Is Ryan getting a cut of that?:rolleyes:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29 Hadouken!!


    Hey all,

    Just got a spam e-mail advertising AI's Star-B-Q.

    There's a link to a promo video given.

    Gave me a right laugh :D

    Especially the first user comment posted...
    Great video ,and the people came across as great company .
    I wonder who that could be? Hmmmm??? :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Hauk


    You lot are quite funny.

    You all say you are not getting p*ssed at the club, but you all jump on the bash the club, even if it's to do with the A&S(the shop) side of things.

    As I've said before, I've my own Astro Soc to look after, but you lot just seem to want to bash the entire club + company setup.

    @Hadouken: Have you considered e-mailing the address it came from and asked to be removed as opposed to just jumping onto boards straight away and going "OHLOL JUST GOT SPAM E-MAIL LOL".

    I've seen the work that's being put into this, as DCU Astro Soc are being kept up to date on what the preparation for this is(we're loaning our telescope for the event,(AND YES I WAS E-MAILED AND ASKED WOULD WE KINDLY VOLUNTEER THE SCOPE, and our committee were offered free in to the event, SHOCK HORROR), and the people that are working on it are working FLAT OUT.

    You lot have gone off your original point, and the whole thread has turned into: "OMG LOOK WHAT THEY'VE DONE NOW FGTS LAWL."

    If you can't discuss something without descending into whispering little school girls, then I see no point in this thread continuing.

    And as stated before, I have sweet f*ck all to do with AI, other than the correspondence between DCU Astro Soc for the event.

    I have voiced my opinion of a certain individual on several occasions and have problem being vocal about it, however comments by Hadouken saying "I wonder who that could be?? Hmmm???" seems to take the entire comment that he quoted out of context.

    I've met some wonderful volunteers from AI, and yes I was quite surprised to find they are nice people.

    Anyway I'm done. Rip apart my post all you want.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭Linguo


    Hauk wrote: »
    You lot are quite funny.

    You all say you are not getting p*ssed at the club, but you all jump on the bash the club, even if it's to do with the A&S(the shop) side of things.

    As I've said before, I've my own Astro Soc to look after, but you lot just seem to want to bash the entire club + company setup.

    @Hadouken: Have you considered e-mailing the address it came from and asked to be removed as opposed to just jumping onto boards straight away and going "OHLOL JUST GOT SPAM E-MAIL LOL".

    I've seen the work that's being put into this, as DCU Astro Soc are being kept up to date on what the preparation for this is(we're loaning our telescope for the event,(AND YES I WAS E-MAILED AND ASKED WOULD WE KINDLY VOLUNTEER THE SCOPE, and our committee were offered free in to the event, SHOCK HORROR), and the people that are working on it are working FLAT OUT.

    You lot have gone off your original point, and the whole thread has turned into: "OMG LOOK WHAT THEY'VE DONE NOW FGTS LAWL."

    If you can't discuss something without descending into whispering little school girls, then I see no point in this thread continuing.

    And as stated before, I have sweet f*ck all to do with AI, other than the correspondence between DCU Astro Soc for the event.

    I have voiced my opinion of a certain individual on several occasions and have problem being vocal about it, however comments by Hadouken saying "I wonder who that could be?? Hmmm???" seems to take the entire comment that he quoted out of context.

    I've met some wonderful volunteers from AI, and yes I was quite surprised to find they are nice people.

    Anyway I'm done. Rip apart my post all you want.

    I think Hadouken has every right to talk about the post considering it depicts pictures of the universe that wrongly gives the impression that the public will see, it's a joke!! I know so many bad things about AI and like any company that's this bad, people should be allowed voice their opinion! He never said anything about volunteers that was bad, if you had read his previous posts you would have realised he said they are nice!I'm not at all surprised you's were offered free entry in return for bringing your scopes, he needs the volunteers! If you're happy with everything youre doing that's brill but you have to let other people discuss stuff too without having a go!


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Hauk


    Linguo wrote: »
    I think Hadouken has every right to talk about the post considering it depicts pictures of the universe that wrongly gives the impression that the public will see, it's a joke!!

    It's not really. It's very hard to capture an image of what your seeing exactly through a telescope, and with the wide variety of scopes that will be present at the event. But I do agree that some/most of the images were exaggerated.
    I know so many bad things about AI and like any company that's this bad, people should be allowed voice their opinion!

    Fire away, just be sure to differentiate between one man and the volunteers.
    He never said anything about volunteers that was bad, if you had read his previous posts you would have realised he said they are nice!

    Okay, agreed. I missed that.
    I'm not at all surprised you's were offered free entry in return for bringing your scopes, he needs the volunteers!

    "He" didn't offer it to me. It was a member of staff who contacted me and expressed an interest in it possibly being loaned.
    If you're happy with everything youre doing that's brill but you have to let other people discuss stuff too without having a go!

    That's grand, it's just I feel there's a lot of general people bashing as opposed to discussion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29 Hadouken!!


    Hauk wrote: »
    [font=&quot] You lot are quite funny.[/font]


    [font=&quot]Ok, first off, I speak for myself... nobody else. So less of the “you lot” stuff please

    [/font]
    Hauk wrote: »
    [font=&quot] @Hadouken: Have you considered e-mailing the address it came from and asked to be removed as opposed to just jumping onto boards straight away and going "OHLOL JUST GOT SPAM E-MAIL LOL".[/font]


    [font=&quot]I used to work for the company and I still have good friends working there (both full time and as volunteers). They all know exactly how I feel, so no need to e-mail them about it.[/font]

    [font=&quot]OH WOW HAUK MADE A WRONG ASSUMPTION ABOUT ME AND WHAT I KNOW. EPIC FAIL!! MEGA LOLZ :rolleyes:

    [/font]
    Hauk wrote: »
    [font=&quot] AND YES I WAS E-MAILED AND ASKED WOULD WE KINDLY VOLUNTEER THE SCOPE... and our committee were offered free in to the event, SHOCK HORROR [/font]


    [font=&quot]So was every customer who purchased a large telescope from the shop... your point is?? [/font]

    Hauk wrote: »
    [font=&quot] and the people that are working on it are working FLAT OUT.[/font]

    [font=&quot]
    Like I said... I worked with those people so I know how hard they are made work. Where exactly did I say they are not working hard? [/font]

    [font=&quot]
    [/font]
    Hauk wrote: »
    [font=&quot] You lot have gone off your original point, and the whole thread has turned into: "OMG LOOK WHAT THEY'VE DONE NOW FGTS LAWL."[/font]


    [font=&quot]Again with the “you lot” generalisation. This is a discussion board. Can people not give their opinions now?? Opinions are like a$$holes... everyone has one.

    [/font]
    Hauk wrote: »
    [font=&quot] If you can't discuss something without descending into whispering little school girls, then I see no point in this thread continuing.[/font]


    [font=&quot]If you don’t like what you read, don’t read it and don’t waste your time replying to it then.

    [/font]
    Hauk wrote: »
    [font=&quot] And as stated before, I have sweet f*ck all to do with AI, other than the correspondence between DCU Astro Soc for the event.[/font]


    [font=&quot]Well I did. But again, am posting my opinion[/font]
    [font=&quot]
    [/font]
    Hauk wrote: »
    [font=&quot] I have voiced my opinion of a certain individual on several occasions and have problem being vocal about it, however comments by Hadouken saying "I wonder who that could be?? Hmmm???" seems to take the entire comment that he quoted out of context.[/font]


    [font=&quot]I have yet to speak to anyone within the astro community who has purely positive things to say about “a certain individual”. My “I wonder who that could be” line was aimed at certain people who I know will be reading this thread who will find it funny. Apologies if my brand of humour went over your head. Let me clarify it for you... [Attempted joke] I wonder who that could be?? Hmmm?? [/ Attempted joke]

    [/font]
    Hauk wrote: »
    [font=&quot] I've met some wonderful volunteers from AI, and yes I was quite surprised to find they are nice people.[/font]


    [font=&quot]As have I. I wasn’t surprised that they were cool though. I don’t like to tar everyone with the same brush. In my time there I came to understand that AI / A&S = 1 person. The comical / farcical goings on have absolutely nothing to do with the staff / volunteers. They are just fans of astronomy. Just like you and me Hauk ;)

    [/font]
    Hauk wrote: »
    [font=&quot] Anyway I'm done. Rip apart my post all you want. [/font]


    [font=&quot]Just so you know, none of the above was aimed at ripping apart your post. Just pointing out that people can have, and will have different opinions. You have your opinions, I have mine. That’s what makes the world so great. So less of the “you people suck a$$ cause you thinks different to me” lark. We can agree to disagree ok??[/font]

    Linguo wrote: »
    I think Hadouken has every right to talk about the post considering it depicts pictures of the universe that wrongly gives the impression that the public will see

    Great point. I do understand that it’s just a clever marketing technique to make people go “wow that’s what you can see?? Lets buy some tickets!!” but it is so deceiving! In my experience, people will either look into a big scope and go “WOW... AMAZING” or “Oh.... that’s .......... nice......” :)

    But when you give a stunning image that’s heavily layered and photshopped as a benchmark, even the most enthusiastic person will be slightly disappointed with the actual view (I know I was first time I looked in a scope!)
    Linguo wrote: »
    If you're happy with everything youre doing that's brill but you have to let other people discuss stuff too without having a go!

    +1


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  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Hauk


    Okay, my apologies. I shouldn't have let loose like that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭Linguo


    Hauk wrote: »
    Okay, my apologies. I shouldn't have let loose like that.

    :)

    Do hope you enjoy the Star-B-Q if you go!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29 Hadouken!!


    Hauk wrote: »
    Okay, my apologies. I shouldn't have let loose like that.

    No problemo dude :) Now .. back to the AI bashing, you first Hauk ( ;) )


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Hauk


    I'll be going yeah.

    You heading?


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Hauk


    Hadouken!! wrote: »
    No problemo dude :) Now .. back to the AI bashing, you first Hauk ( ;) )

    They signed me up for all their mailing lists. Not just one. ALL of them. ;_;


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭Linguo


    Don't wanna pay 40 to go!:D

    We have a nice scope so may just head out somewhere with it if it's clear!

    Weather hasn't been looking too promising though!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29 Hadouken!!


    Hauk wrote: »
    They signed me up for all their mailing lists. Not just one. ALL of them. ;_;

    Ah you didn't make the mistake of contacting them through e-mail did you? tut tut :) You now have e-mails for life. Congrats :D

    But seriously, hope you do enjoy the night.

    Just don't ruin your night vision by watching the Fire juggler :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Hauk


    Heh. Cheers, it should be fun. And if it's cloudy, it's to the nearest pub.


  • Registered Users Posts: 48 Frank Ryan Jr


    I was all ready to do the deal but they pulled out at the last minute saying AI had made a complaint against them to the main distributor (apparently they had told quite a few Irish people they could ship here) and if they sent to me they could be shut down! :o

    How can AI have such a strangle hold on the Irish market. There is no fair market, it's a monopoly!! /quote]

    Uh.
    What?
    Surely this is not the case.
    Are you sure of your facts here?
    There is NO WAY a company trading in European Union can dictate
    to a distributor because an off shore company wants to ship here.
    That's not just madness - and it's downright illegal.
    (as you say yourself competition law e.g monopoly.)
    Be very sure you are right when you make this claim.

    Company's are well within their rights to do 'deals' and
    to to decide who they trade with but,
    a competitor preventing another established
    business from doing a transaction with another EU citizen is very odd.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    Hauk wrote: »
    Okay, my apologies. I shouldn't have let loose like that.

    Fair Dews to you Hadouken!! and Hauk , a great debate , very very well conducted , hats off to both of you :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29 Hadouken!!


    Stargate wrote: »
    Fair Dews to you Hadouken!! and Hauk , a great debate , very very well conducted , hats off to both of you :)

    More a little misunderstanding Star but ta ;)

    Nice to see it could be sorted so easy though. If only all lifes little problems were as easy :D Like cloud cover... and how to make it go away :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭lithiumoxide


    Linguo wrote: »
    staff do everything and dont get paid for doing after work activities so AI have it very sweet in there

    There isnt money spent on advertising, it relies on press releases and interviews

    Incorrect on both counts. Money is spent on advertising, and staff are paid for after-work activities.

    As with any company or organisation, press notices are regularly used to disseminate information to the media, as I'm sure you know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭lithiumoxide


    Hadouken!! wrote: »
    If only all lifes little problems were as easy :D Like cloud cover... and how to make it go away :D

    So true! I was watching the skies vehemently for the Perseids, but unfortunately it was cloudy that night :( I did get to see a couple of meteors the following night, though! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,796 ✭✭✭Calibos


    I'd love to get in free with my 16" Dob for the public to look through....but I am not allowed....because its a Meade :D I gaurantee Hauks/DCU's scope is a Celestron SCT or an ATM Dob. I was even going to pay in last year but was quietly informed not to bring my scope (twas an Orion back then). This rule is probably in place because AI...I mean A&S :D are the Celestron Distributor and only want the public to see that brand. THe excuse given however is that its the attending Celestron Reps who provide the Celestron Prizes. While I very much beleive its the former rather than the later due to the AI chairman and A&S propreiter being one and the same, I wouldn't put it past Celestron themselves which kind of ties in with Franks post.

    Celestron Distributors the world over are the same with unfair practices. You see posts making the same complaints in Australias ICEINSPACE forums for instance. While they certainly can't stop one of their European dealers selling a Celestron scope to someone in Ireland under the letter of the law, they can quietly threaten the dealer that any sales to outside their homemarket will be frowned upon and those juicy wholesale discounts might start to disappear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭lithiumoxide


    Calibos wrote: »
    I'd love to get in free with my 16" Dob for the public to look through....but I am not allowed....because its a Meade :D I gaurantee Hauks/DCU's scope is a Celestron SCT or an ATM Dob. I was even going to pay in last year but was quietly informed not to bring my scope (twas an Orion back then). This rule is probably in place because AI...I mean A&S :D are the Celestron Distributor and only want the public to see that brand. THe excuse given however is that its the attending Celestron Reps who provide the Celestron Prizes. While I very much beleive its the former rather than the later due to the AI chairman and A&S propreiter being one and the same, I wouldn't put it past Celestron themselves which kind of ties in with Franks post.

    I think you hit the nail on the head with the former: if your company was sponsoring an organisation/event, I can't imagine you'd want the competition on your turf either :D

    Out of interest, what scope do you have? I'm the proud owner of a nice 4" Bresser Messier myself! Got some great viewing done last weekend.
    Celestron Distributors the world over are the same with unfair practices. You see posts making the same complaints in Australias ICEINSPACE forums for instance. While they certainly can't stop one of their European dealers selling a Celestron scope to someone in Ireland under the letter of the law, they can quietly threaten the dealer that any sales to outside their homemarket will be frowned upon and those juicy wholesale discounts might start to disappear.

    Hear, hear. While A+S and Celestron might have their own issues, I don't think it's fair that AI should suffer the brunt of all these bad vibes. They seem to be caught in the middle of another underlying issue with another organisation!

    Clear skies, all!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Hadouken!! wrote: »
    Just don't ruin your night vision by watching the Fire juggler :p

    Hehe - that's the first thing I thought when I saw the juggler.

    As for being asked to volunteer the scope - why would you? He is charging people in to use your scope and other people's who volunteer theirs. If you want to volunteer your scope bring it to a real club event such as the Cosmos in Tullamore or other club events where people can have a look through it for nothing - that's volunteering. If he truly wanted to promote astronomy he'd allow anyone in with their scope free - not just Celestron ones. But he's not - he's running a business and this Star-B-Q is just part of the business. It's this nonsense about it being a club that pisses me off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭Linguo


    Incorrect on both counts. Money is spent on advertising, and staff are paid for after-work activities.

    As with any company or organisation, press notices are regularly used to disseminate information to the media, as I'm sure you know.

    I worked there and I did the after work activities. Things may have changed now but I don't think so! If things have changed now great for staff.......


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭Linguo


    Hear, hear. While A+S and Celestron might have their own issues, I don't think it's fair that AI should suffer the brunt of all these bad vibes. They seem to be caught in the middle of another underlying issue with another organisation!/QUOTE]

    My problem is with how AI go about things as much as the shop because it's all under the one rule and that rule is the whole problem


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29 Hadouken!!


    I think you hit the nail on the head with the former: if your company was sponsoring an organisation/event, I can't imagine you'd want the competition on your turf either :D
    Hear, hear. While A+S and Celestron might have their own issues, I don't think it's fair that AI should suffer the brunt of all these bad vibes. They seem to be caught in the middle of another underlying issue with another organisation!

    Ok, on the one hand you are saying you don’t want the competition on your turf... fair enough I suppose.

    But then you are saying if A&S and Celestron have issues that it’s unfair AI should get the slack and be stuck in the middle??

    Dude... contradiction FAIL!

    It’s not unfair in the slightest because AI is A&S!

    If Astronomy Ireland is an independent club as we keep hearing, then it wouldn’t matter what brand of scope was brought along to events. Correct me if I’m wrong here, but Star-B-Q is an event organised by AI right? Not A&S! So it should have absolutely nothing to do with A&S’s links to Celestron. A&S should have sweet fook all to do with it. But we all know that they do.

    The Astronomy Ireland “club” can’t wipe it’s own a$$ without little brother A&S standing there in the background dangling its Celestron brand toilet paper. This is the very reason AI will never be viewed as an astronomy club by the educated astronomy community in Ireland.
    The above is FACT. And it will remain a fact until the day that Astronomy & Space starts trading under it’s own name and cuts all ties with AI (Also known as the day Hell freezes over!)

    Incorrect... staff are paid for after-work activities.

    [font=&quot]I never received a cent for any work I did outside office hours. Delighted for you’s if that’s changed though [/font]:) Maybe I should send in an invoice for the money I'm owed so :P

    Macros42 wrote: »
    Hehe - that's the first thing I thought when I saw the juggler.

    What a great way to educated the public :D "What's that? You can't see the planet very well?? No need to let your eyes adjust to the dark... just use this burning stick to help light it up a bit more!" :rolleyes:

    Macros42 wrote: »
    If you want to volunteer your scope bring it to a real club event such as the Cosmos in Tullamore or other club events where people can have a look through it for nothing - that's volunteering. If he truly wanted to promote astronomy he'd allow anyone in with their scope free - not just Celestron ones. But he's not - he's running a business and this Star-B-Q is just part of the business. It's this nonsense about it being a club that pisses me off.
    Linguo wrote: »

    My problem is with how AI go about things as much as the shop because it's all under the one rule and that rule is the whole problem

    +1,000,000


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭Linguo


    Hadouken!! wrote: »
    The Astronomy Ireland “club” can’t wipe it’s own a$$ without little brother A&S standing there in the background dangling its Celestron brand toilet paper.

    haha!!:D


This discussion has been closed.
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