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Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    patronage

    Dublin word, in Galway we "Ride" trains rather than patronageamate them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭crocro


    Guys, the money is spent. It would be more expensive to do anything other than set up the service.
    106m is spent. this is a sunk cost and we will never see it again.

    However, the predicted annual operating loss of €3m for 100k passengers has only just started. It would be less expensive never to operate the service at all and invest the 3m a year in some other aspect of public transport in the west such as bus or bike lanes in Limerick or Galway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    when this route starts to operate at a loss initially who is going to foot the bill for the inevitable bus trasfers whenever there is a few days of rain? also it can only be assumed that the staff servicing this route will still be reporting for work at their usual stations and for their usual trains and will be paid even when their trains do not run due to flooding? or will they all be reallocated to other duties while the line is unusable?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Well, think return on investment. If you run trains, you get *some* return on investment. if you don't run trains, you get *no* return on investment. And a lot of people who watched a station being built just down the road from them being told "f*ck off, you don't matter".

    The line will lose money. That is not a return on investment.

    Also, by the time your CAO-taking mate is ready to go to college, the Gort bypass will be open. He's going to have to get used to taking rail replacement buses as is, so that'll be a help...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    that was a little premature of him wasnt it? Not knowing whether or not there would be a very early train running. To get from Limerick station to UL or LIT by 9am would mean you'd have to arrive there a bit before 8.30 I guess.

    I think the point being made is that sometimes you have to cut your losses and bail out of a project once the point is reached where it is obvious that it isnt going to work.In the WRC case, if buses and drivers have to be hired every winter for months on end, this drives a coach and horses through any hopes of viability. Its not a straight bustitution, IE will still have to pay its staff to sit idle and maintain the rolling stock etc.


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  • Posts: 0 Eason Large Quail


    Well I say no. And none of you have anything but crystal ball predictions to support your "f*ck off and take a bus"

    3 million? that's all? you're banging the bells over 3 million being spent on the West? That's 6 banker's salaries, if not less. That's a few miles of motorway. It's sure less than what Aer Arann gets to sub their domestic routes

    Get your priorities straight people. Or do the honest thing and officially set up the support group you guys obviously are a member of. There's enough of ye to start the campaign. Go on, write a letter to the Irish times. What are ye gonna call yourselves, eh?

    I'm sick to the back teeth of you people. Always *whack* it shouldn't be built *whack* it shouldn't be built *whack* it shouldn't be built whack* it shouldn't be built whack* it shouldn't be built whack* it shouldn't be built *whack* they need to stop building *whack* they need to stop building *whack* they need to stop building *whack* they need to stop building *whack* they need to not run trains *whack* they need to not run trains *whack* they need to not run trains

    and soon it'll be *whack* they need stop the trains *whack* they need stop the trains *whack* they need stop the trains *whack* they need stop the trains.

    This is going hamsterwheel. I'm just the first guy to stick around and say "no". Not because I beleive that West on Track are right, but because the boardsies of South Galway/North Clare are going to have issues with the line when it's open, and being told "f*ck off from C&T, take a bus" isn't acceptable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    I am sick to the teeth of handing out bans and infractions in this thread. When I say sick to the teeth I mean seething with fury that a second/third/fourth chance at this subject is being routinely abused.

    If I have to issue one more ban or infraction I will seriously consider closing the thread again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Well I say no. And none of you have anything but crystal ball predictions to support your "f*ck off and take a bus"

    3 million? that's all? you're banging the bells over 3 million being spent on the West? unquote

    Well i dont think you need a crystal ball to see the problems that arent going away with flooding.

    I am not concerned with spending 3 million on the Wesht..Im concerned at BADLY spending 3 million on the it ad infinitum. So I think EITHER we should pull the plug OR spend more to make it a proper line stopping in sensible places and travelling at decent speeds and sort out the flooding issue. In the current economic climate, Id say the former is more likely.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭crocro


    Well I say no. And none of you have anything but crystal ball predictions to support your "f*ck off and take a bus"
    Well there is the strategic rail review, 2003, the Faber Maunsell/Irish Rail demand predictions and the Goodbody review of the Irish Rail analysis.
    3 million? that's all?
    That's just the operational loss, the capital costs are double that. If Irish rail makes its predicted 100k passengers in year 1 that will be 30 quid per journey operational cost. A daily commuter would be subsidised 300 euro per week. The state can't pay people 300 quid a week to take a train to work. It does not make any sense.
    It's sure less than what Aer Arann gets to sub their domestic routes
    Maybe the regional airport subsidies should also be abolished.
    Get your priorities straight people.
    the priority should be to generate the largest number of public transport trips for the lowest amount of money per trip.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 DoWhatThouWilt


    Calina wrote: »
    I am sick to the teeth of handing out bans and infractions in this thread. When I say sick to the teeth I mean seething with fury that a second/third/fourth chance at this subject is being routinely abused.

    If I have to issue one more ban or infraction I will seriously consider closing the thread again.

    Here's an idea then. How about not behaving like a frustrated Stasi agent waiting for the East German Marxist People's Party to reform and take back control?

    Might cause you less stess and prevent the mass exodus form this forum the mods have been directly responsible for in recent months.

    Just a thought... You do realise Calina, that George Orwell's 1984 was a fictional warning and not a blueprint for a perfect society?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Here's an idea then.

    Is that you again Nostradamus ???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Here's an idea then. How about not behaving like a frustrated Stasi agent waiting for the East German Marxist People's Party to reform and take back control?

    This thread had been in the gutter for ages but when the mods ban you just to let you know I'm going to shamelessly steal this and use it on other forums :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Well I say no. And none of you have anything but crystal ball predictions to support your "f*ck off and take a bus"
    3 million? that's all? you're banging the bells over 3 million being spent on the West? That's 6 banker's salaries, if not less. That's a few miles of motorway. It's sure less than what Aer Arann gets to sub their domestic routes

    It's none of these things. Subsidising Aer Arann would actually be cheaper! "Banker" is too vague a term, and 3 million wouldn't even buy you 1 mile of motorway let alone "a few".

    Nobody has crystal ball predictions to say EXACTLY what will happen. But the evidence provided above by crocro as well as Irish Rail's own Cost-Benefit Analysis clearly demonstrate it is highly likely the project will need an unacceptably high annual subvention.

    I'm all for improved transport in the west... but ultimately the line will most likely be closed down, unless its alignment is dramatically improved. That can be done in phases in the future if need be, but it is the ONLY way (barring some sort of enormous population explosion) that the service will be viable in the medium to long-term.
    I'm sick to the back teeth of you people.

    I admit this thread can sometimes get a little repititive, tiresome and gutterish, but geez, nobody has tied you down to the desk with metal chains mate lol

    People are going to give their opinions and it just happens most people seem to be of a similar one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    The Western line will require a subsidy. The value for this subsidy should be maximised by privatising the line from Athenry to Rosslare to a lean operation which has a vested interest in trying to get as much business as possible by good timetabling etc. There are good precedents in other countries for lightly used lines being run by regional operators.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 394 ✭✭Propellerhead


    "Lean"?

    The Rosslare to Waterford section is so bloody "lean" that a) it doesnt connect with boats or other trains, often, b) runs twice a day each way and c) doesn't run on Sundays.

    On the strength of the spleen vented over Ennis-Athenry, plenty of C&T posters would applaud a poxy service like that. Everywhere. Then the railway could be scrapped and private bus operators take over.

    Funny that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    b) runs twice a day each way

    They've doubled service levels? I thought it was just one service in the morning from Rosslare and one back from Waterford in the evening.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    The whole Ennis-Limerick-Waterford-Rosslare corridor is compromised by the fact that IE sees Limerick-LJ-Waterford services as primarily there to service connections with Dublin-Cork trains.

    Question: suppose IE extended the 0700 ex Rosslare beyond towards Limerick/Galway/Ennis. How far could the equipment go without (a) a crew change and (b) refuelling?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    This from IRN today - unbelievable stuff!

    I can think of no valid reason, other than apathy, why Ennis to Galway Commuter services have not already been introduced. There is no flooding on this route. About 130 lights illuminate the idle new stations at Ardrahan, Craughwell and Gort since the autumn, as Galway and Ennis bound commuters muse at the sight of the mysterious new railway. Its like as if whoever commissioned it took early retirement and no one in HQ realises its there. No doubt the "running" costs are already accumulating in the Accounts Office. It even surpasses the well worn practice of running a token weekday service at inconvenient times to drive down demand in order to justify closure, with an innovative new practice of smothering demand in advance thereby achieving the distinction of becoming the first railway company in the world to close a line before it is even opened. Kinda cuts out the boring old "operating train services" bit in the middle, dos'nt it?

    WRC lights.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    i can think of several reasons...:rolleyes:

    i dont know why the lights are on...perhaps security or safety issues.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    I note (from IRN) that 2700 sets have been heading to Athlone for training - I wonder if they've been staging some training on the dry bits from there, since they can't be staged out of Limerick?

    The lights being on all the time, well compo culture married to skanger culture will make that happen... you'd at least hope a few solar panels would be providing the power, the light pollution is bad enough, not to mention the fact that Ardrahan and Craughwell got day 1 builds in the first place...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭popebenny16


    This from IRN today - unbelievable stuff!

    It even surpasses the well worn practice of running a token weekday service at inconvenient times to drive down demand in order to justify closure, with an innovative new practice of smothering demand in advance

    WRC lights.jpg

    talk about getting your excuses in early.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,573 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    29th of March and we'll find out if our worst fears are founded or we'll be eating humble pie. I know what my money is on.;)

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/revamped-galway-to-limerick-train-service-to-launch-445343.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭FlameoftheWest


    lord lucan wrote: »
    29th of March and we'll find out if our worst fears are founded or we'll be eating humble pie. I know what my money is on.;)

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/revamped-galway-to-limerick-train-service-to-launch-445343.html
    There is tremendous public support for this new service along the route, and we look forward to many new customers using our services, both for travel between the cities and for commuter travel to Limerick and Galway.”


    I looked at the time table and it is a complete joke! Even if there was huge demand for it there is no way to realistically "commute" on the services planned. It is timetabled like an IE inter-city route in that if you miss your "teatime" train then you better look for a hotel. The only thing modern I can tell about this project is the actual track and stations which seem excessively over engineered to my eyes. Yet by contrast the timetable is pure Percy French! Who are IE kidding, this is a project which is not going to deliver anything other than the Travel Pass Posse to weekday mass and back. Irish Rail do you have any idea that this is the 21st Century...

    The whole thing looks like it was planned by engineers who drive to work and have never commuted by public transport in their lives. Ryanair does not use aircraft technicians to plan their routes. Irish Rail have no idea about basic issues such as customer demands and work-life patterns in modern Irish society. It's frightening actually.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    I looked at the time table and it is a complete joke! Even if there was huge demand for it there is no way to realistically "commute" on the services planned. It is timetabled like an IE inter-city route in that if you miss your "teatime" train then you better look for a hotel. The only thing modern I can tell about this project is the actual track and stations which seem excessively over engineered to my eyes. Yet by contrast the timetable is pure Percy French! Who are IE kidding, this is a project which is not going to deliver anything other than the Travel Pass Posse to weekday mass and back. Irish Rail do you have any idea that this is the 21st Century...

    The whole thing looks like it was planned by engineers who drive to work and have never commuted by public transport in their lives. Ryanair does not use aircraft technicians to plan their routes. Irish Rail have no idea about basic issues such as customer demands and work-life patterns in modern Irish society. It's frightening actually.

    Why are you surprised? CIE/IE has been run by road using engineers for decades. As you say the line and stations are over engineered for the service being provided and it is going to be an almighty white elephant. The first couple of days it will be busy with Irish Railway Record Society camera swingers and other anoraks plus the West-on-Track crowd and then it will die. Any hope of a future for the WRC depends on it being by somebody other than the morons in CIE/IE.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭FlameoftheWest


    Why are you surprised? CIE/IE has been run by road using engineers for decades. As you say the line and stations are over engineered for the service being provided and it is going to be an almighty white elephant. The first couple of days it will be busy with Irish Railway Record Society camera swingers and other anoraks plus the West-on-Track crowd and then it will die. Any hope of a future for the WRC depends on it being by somebody other than the morons in CIE/IE.

    Do you really think it'll be that much of a flop? We have been told in the West this will be the best thing since sliced bread for years now. But I would have to be honest here and openly state that I meet noone who ever cared about this rail line. Not a single person. I know this may sound like lies to people who only read the WestTrack site but I am being honest. I think there was always another agenda with this project and it had very little if anything to do with coummuters. It's so depressing to see how we plan nothing in this country and it only takes a handful of loudmouths to have implemented a 100+ million Euro rail project which is pointless to most people living in Galway, Limerick and in between. When I think what could of been done with that money. I am actually very angry about how this all ended up after seeing the stupid timetable. I have my fingers crossed it'll be a success. I fear the worst though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭Bodan


    I am a bit surprised at some of the vitriol in this thread. I have seen people against some projects before but not with this amount of venom. It looks almost organised ... but I digress.

    WRC_map.jpg

    Right now it takes 5 to 6 hours for people from Cork and Waterford to get to Galway by rail, though Dublin. When this line opens, it will half the travel time to around 3 hours, which makes such trips by rail a reasonable alternative.

    At present, most of the rail network leads straight to Dublin. It is about time other intercity routes were opened without the need to pass through the capital.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭sesna


    Maura Harrington and Co will surely find reason to protest against it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭alpha2zulu


    Bodan wrote: »
    Right now it takes 5 to 6 hours for people from Cork and Waterford to get to Galway by rail, though Dublin. When this line opens, it will half the travel time to around 3 hours, which makes such trips by rail a reasonable alternative.
    3 hours via WRC...I wish!
    Right now it takes somebody getting the 0630 from Waterford until 1015 just to get as far as Ennis via Limerick. Add another circa 80 minutes to that and your well into your fifth hour on those noisy commuter trains. Travelling via Kldare is still the only show in town. And since Sunday continues to be a holy day of rest and obligation on the Waterford-Limerick Junction track, the WRC Galway connection is meaningless to any weekend travellers or students.
    Given that the WRC is going to be under water at some point between Limerick and Galway for half the winter you really cant blame peoples scepticisim over the project.

    Even worse the 1230 from Waterford will get you to Ennis at 1710 so presumably Galway around 1830! It must be faster on a bike:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,218 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Bodan wrote: »
    Right now it takes 5 to 6 hours for people from Cork and Waterford to get to Galway by rail, though Dublin.

    Why would you do that when you can change trains in Portarlington or Kildare? Current journey times from Cork to Galway are 4:25 to 5:40. The return journey 4:48 to 5:50.

    Current journey times from Waterford to Galway are 04:28 to 06:05 (with an additional connection overnight). The return journey 04:40 to 06:32.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭Bodan


    3 hours via WRC...I wish!
    Right now it takes somebody getting the 0630 from Waterford until 1015 just to get as far as Ennis via Limerick.

    That's true for Waterfordian's. The journey is 3 hours 45 minutes which includes 55 minutes waiting at Limerick Junction(LJ) and then limerick station. The scheduling up until now is not the best. Hopefully that will change in the future as it is too long to wait on such a journey.

    104745.gif
    (LJ is marked in red)

    Looking at the current times, Waterford to Limerick Junction is roughly 1 hour and 40 minutes while Cork to LJ is just one hour. Maybe they need to put on an intercity up to Galway, bringing down the times because right now the trains from LJ west(towards Limerick) are too slow.

    If Cork to Galway cant be done in 3 to 3 and half hours, then they really need to go back to the drawing board and look at the quality of the line.

    Either way, lets see what happens. The opening is not too far off, we should know soon what their plans are.


This discussion has been closed.
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