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RTÉ Colour Tests

  • 10-01-2006 11:42pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭


    I'd like to learn a bit more about the early colour transmissions by RTÉ. RTÉ did start broadcasting some colour films or overseas relays in colour as early as 1968.

    However I'm curious to know if any other colour tests were broadcast by RTÉ - the only test I personally remember was the occasional broadcast of a Bord Fáilte colour film 'Ireland of the Welcomes' during trade tests. This would have been about 1972/73.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 394 ✭✭Propellerhead


    Was there ever any need for "upgrades" of any kind to broadcast colour over the 625 transmission network? The existence of Black and White testcards for BBC2 into the 1970s (see the Rust 'n' Dust Testcard page) suggests to me that there was.

    I was always under the impression until relatively recent years that RTÉ didn't "go colour" until 1972 - and then heard of the existence of the film "John Hume's Derry" which was reputed to be the first colour transmission of RTÉ.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    I would assume that when the RTE netwok was being built (well the 625 line portion of it anyway) that the future requirements for colour would have been taken into account ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    It is really only the Galleries, cameras and studio is different for Colour. PAL designed to work on a 625 line 50Hz Network.

    The big change is 405 to 625. A lot of analog Cable TV and analog MMDS gear isn't specifically 625, it is really 525 line NTSC (3.58 MHz carrier instead of 4.43MHz carrier) and works with wider bandwith 625 PAL (4.43MHz colour carrier).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    Isint there a tighter frequency stability requirement for transmitters carring PAL/NTSC (as opposed to SECAM or monochrome) ? But presumably RTE were well aware of this when the 625 transmitters were being commisioned since PAL was in the late stages of development and NTSC had been in use for several years in the US


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    For Nicam probabily, yes. I wouldn't think so for PAL, it is a subcarrier added to the video baseband. It could in theory use a different modulator and transmitter from a U and V feed, like sound was / is done, but I never heard of anyone doing that. The PAL is in the video from the Gallery mixer, historically. The sound is separate.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭bungeecork


    I think newspapers used to carry "Colour test transmission" next to programs being broadcast in colour in the early days. I'm pretty sure my parents have an old newspaper at home with this on it. I'll look it up for you tonight :)


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    According to RTÉ Library and Archive's website, the 1971 GAA Interprovincial Championship finals were the first RTÉ Colour production. I believe they may have been broadcasting imports in colour as far back as 1969 though..


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,726 ✭✭✭✭DMC


    1971 Eurovision, shurely?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    rlogue wrote:
    I'd like to learn a bit more about the early colour transmissions by RTÉ. RTÉ did start broadcasting some colour films or overseas relays in colour as early as 1968.

    However I'm curious to know if any other colour tests were broadcast by RTÉ - the only test I personally remember was the occasional broadcast of a Bord Fáilte colour film 'Ireland of the Welcomes' during trade tests. This would have been about 1972/73.

    My Dad bought a Philips G8 in 1972 (earliest colour I remember - I think it cost something like £200). As far as I remember RTE used to broadcast the old PM 5544 test card in colour (I remember people coming in off the street to see it!!:eek: ). And it was a major deal when some ads were broadcast in colour (usually holiday ads).:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    DMC wrote:
    1971 Eurovision, shurely?

    AFAIR it was in black and white - that's why the Dana footage is always B & W.:)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    It was amazing that people were willing to pay for colour TV sets (and licences) when very few programmes seem to have been broadcast in colour

    I remember hearing that in the late sixties a colour TV set could cost more than the van it was delivered in :eek: and apart from being notorously unreliable (more valves to blow) everytime the thing was moved the tube had to be demagnetised (The Phillips G8 was one of the first sets to overcome this problem) Installation/set up could take anything up to three hours.

    We used to have a G11 (the even more ubiquitous successor to the G8) set at home it regularly developed extreme pincusion distortion which started intermittantly and become worse until we got a bloke out from the shop to look at it. Then it would be sorted for another few months. Then there was those six channel buttons which couldnt be switched between VHF and UHF without once again getting an engineer out :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,726 ✭✭✭✭DMC


    Freddie59 wrote:
    AFAIR it was in black and white - that's why the Dana footage is always B & W.:)

    1970, Dana won in The Netherlands. NOS produced in the show in colour, but it was shown by RTÉ in B&W.

    1971, in the Gaeity Theatre, RTÉ produced the show in colour (with help and free plugs by the BBC.) If it was transmitted in colour in the Republic, is kinda lost in the fog of time, but the BBC did show it in colour. I think it still is the first home-produced live colour tranmission by RTÉ.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Telefís


    (c) RTÉ

    The Advent of Colour Television: 1971

    The 1970s saw tremendous investment by RTÉ in the new technology of colour television. The first broadcasts in colour had taken place in 1968, but it took a further five years of work before colour transmissions became a regular event on Irish television. Colour was introduced into RTÉ in three phases. Firstly, relays of sports events and other programmes were taken from the Eurovision network. Secondly, colourisation of playback equipment allowed transmission of home produced films and video productions. Lastly, the studios and Outside Broadcasting Units were converted to full working colour.

    In 1976, 'The Late Late Show' finally went colour, the last major programme to undergo the change. By this year all studios, outside broadcast and film production units were full colour.

    The Railway Cup Finals of 1971 was the first home produced colour production, followed soon after by Ireland's first hosting of the Eurovision Song Contest in April.

    Ends


    Extraordinary the Late Late only went colour in 1976 (and presumably therefore all studio production) - you'd think the Montrose facilities would be the first to be tackled.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    Studio 1, the home of the Late Late in the Seventies was the last of Montrose's studios to go colour.

    Most shows on RTÉ (including the News) were in colour from about 1974 onwards. There were two major exceptions; The Late Late Show and Hall's Pictorial Weekly.

    I would have thought that the home of RTÉ's top rated programme would have been the first studio to go colour but amazingly, it was the last.

    RTÉ's current affairs programme 7 Days was advertised as broadcast in Black and White in the studio and in colour for filmed inserts at one point in the RTE Guide. This would have been about 1973.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Then there was those six channel buttons which couldnt be switched between VHF and UHF without once again getting an engineer out :rolleyes:
    I remember this on some old Bush sets, there was something like a jumper on the tuner for each button that had to be changed to switch it between VHF and UHF. So it meant removing the back cover, haha!


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭pg17


    rlogue wrote:
    I'd like to learn a bit more about the early colour transmissions by RTÉ. RTÉ did start broadcasting some colour films or overseas relays in colour as early as 1968.

    However I'm curious to know if any other colour tests were broadcast by RTÉ - the only test I personally remember was the occasional broadcast of a Bord Fáilte colour film 'Ireland of the Welcomes' during trade tests. This would have been about 1972/73.
    I believe the first colour transmission by RTÉ was the relay of the Wimbledon Men's Finals (June 1968 ?) when the technician 'forgot' to switch off the colour relayed from the BBC (?).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 388 ✭✭Milktrolley


    It was amazing that people were willing to pay for colour TV sets (and licences) when very few programmes seem to have been broadcast in colour

    I wasn't alive then so I'm say this with a bit of guesswork, but presumably people would have been thinking ahead, realising that with more and more colour programmes coming along that it would be a worthwhile investment. Similiarly, anyone who knows about HD and what it is, may very well buy a HD TV, with the hope that over the ten years or so that the television will serve them, that a growing number of HD programmes will become available.

    Sorry about the phrasing there, it is late after all :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭Antenna


    pg17 wrote:
    I believe the first colour transmission by RTÉ was the relay of the Wimbledon Men's Finals (June 1968 ?) when the technician 'forgot' to switch off the colour relayed from the BBC (?).

    interesting, I wonder was Ceefax 'inadvertently' transmitted by RTE during relays of BBC programmes long ago (prior to their own teletext being introduced)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    Yes it was, I remember Top of the Pops being broadcast on RTE 2 in 1979 with BBC teletext. Sadly we did not have a teletext TV at the time to decode it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I wasn't alive then so I'm say this with a bit of guesswork, but presumably people would have been thinking ahead, realising that with more and more colour programmes coming along that it would be a worthwhile investment. Similiarly, anyone who knows about HD and what it is, may very well buy a HD TV, with the hope that over the ten years or so that the television will serve them, that a growing number of HD programmes will become available.

    Sorry about the phrasing there, it is late after all :)

    At least a 1970 Colour TV did really do colour. The HD launch is europe is a minefield with so many unsuitable TVs qualifying for the "HD ready" logo and so little good labelling of sets.

    It isn 't as much a change either. Moving from 21" 405Line B&W to 21" 625 line Colour you get a huge improvement.

    Moving from 26" 4:3 TV to 28" WS HDReady (at ANY native resolution) can even be a slight downgrade in quality for some sets.


    HDTV was developed for large screens (> 37", esp 48" to 60")) where in an ordinary room the Standard PAL looks fuzzy. The USA has had traditionally 30% less resolution and larger screens (>32" common 10 years ago) so needed HDTV more than Europe.

    If the HDTV signal is resampled to make it fit the lower number of lines / pixels on 80% of so called "HD Ready" sets and the set is not large, then the advantages are nearly all lost.

    Many non-HD LCD give poorer colour than a 1970 TV! Even the HD sets, many LCD & Plasma can't reproduce the nauances of light pastel shades and dark coloured shadow areas as well as an old TV. This slight "posterisation" actually artifically very often makes a picture look "crisper" and "sharper" but it is unnatural and not a faithfull rendition.

    Really I'd wait more before buying an HDTV, or make sure is bigger than 36" and truely has native 1920x1080i pixels. Unlike Colour there is not even a real BBC service! There is only ONE UK main HD channel (BBC HD) and that only has about 1/4 day real output and is a trial service till April 2007.

    Artsworld, Nat Geo, Discovery are niche channels.
    History channel doesn't exactly need HD.
    Sky HD is mostly upscaled SD and Sky1 has less than 2% of viewers!

    Then there are the Premium Sport & Movie HD channels. Those by no means are fully HD.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    Watty some valid points but
    there is not even a real BBC service! There is only ONE UK main HD channel (BBC HD) and that only has about 1/4 day real output and is a trial service till April 2007

    Yes but going back to your 405/625 analogy how many hours of programming were on BBC2 in its early days ?

    Six hours perhaps

    So in those days we only had one BBC channel broadcasting on 625 with 1/4 day real output

    Plus ca change...............!


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Good point Ulsterman!

    And how much output had RTE2 in 1983?

    YEs I remember the TRIAL service of BBC2 which we had in B&W on a dual standard rental set for maybe at least a year BEFORE BBC2 started test transmission. I knew no-one with colour though untill well after BBC was established and UTV & BBC1 on UHF colour too. Strangely soap powder ads were still B&W.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭Scottish paddy


    I remember being in Enniskillen years ago and the electrical shops had their colour sets tuned to RTÉ and the B/W sets to BBC or UTV.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    Colour TV (and BBC2) was late coming to that part of the world because of a terrorist attack on Brougher Mountain in which a number of BBC engineers were murdered.
    I knew no-one with colour though untill well after BBC was established and UTV & BBC1 on UHF colour too.

    BBC2 started regular service in 1964 but colour programmes didnt start until 1967 and didnt come to BBC1 and ITV until 1969 (although there were experimental tests dating back to the late fifties)

    Also in the late sixties colour sets were cumbersome, unreliable and VERY expensive although they had improved somewhat by the early seventies


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The earliest elctronic TV design with CRT for camera and display was proposed in 1905. Working prototypes in USA and UK and Europe about the time Baird was promoting his "victorian" mechanical TV in 1930s (first proposed and demonstrated around 1895). Colour was tested also in mid 1930s.

    The war delayed much. NTSC color was finalised in 1951. Telefunken & BBC deleveoped PAL Colour as a very simple variation of the NTSC system to avoid colour hue shift due to reflections of all our european hilly bits (Lots of USA is either cabled or Flat). The small change resulted in errors of signal simply reducing the amount of colour instead of changing hue, which us humans are much less sensitive to.

    I'm not sure but I think we did not have ANY BBC2 till 1967 (DIVIS). Though I think we might have had the Dual standard B&W TV a year or so before. It was about 1970 we got colour. 1971 I entered a project at the Aer Lingus Young Scientist show "Digital TV via laser"
    One of the Judges was from RTE and said it was very imaginative and interesting but that it was unlikly we would ever have Digital TV or communication of it by laser.*

    I think you will find that even that year or the next both Digital TV and communication by laser over fibre was demonstrated. I got "Highly Commended". Some project on Dragonflys won. There was an ejit prosing lighting by RF without Wires. He had glowing florescent tubes (no wires) and a high power Short wave transmitter, I didn't think much of it. No-one stayed near his stand. A more interesting stand was a Dublin girl with Mathmatics of Moire fringing, maybe to do with measuring.

    *Obviously folk like him having been running various Governememt and semistate ever since.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    unlikly we would ever have Digital TV or communication of it by laser
    Ummmm DVD's ??????
    There was an ejit prosing lighting by RF without Wires.
    Somewhat reminiciant of the insane genius of Nikola Tesla
    He had glowing florescent tubes (no wires) and a high power Short wave transmitter,
    Did he have a licence for it ?
    No-one stayed near his stand
    maybe they were freaked out by the idea of all that RF :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    As Ulsterman says UHF & Colour from Brougher was late due to the murder of 4 BBC Engineers in 1971 near the site. Wasn't born at the time, but reading about it colour officially started there in September 1978, while 405 lines from Truskmore was switched off in October. Must have been some time for people to keep up! The opening of Strabane the year before I would assume would have taken some of this pressure off, along with areas that could get a reasonable signal from Divis.

    The back of my mind says that colour from Divis started in 1970, Limavady in 1975.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Can anyone definitely tell me when BBC2 came to the North - was it when BBC2 began broadcasting in 1964 or later? I do remember seeing BBC2 in colour at a relation's house in Belfast in either 1967 or 1968.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    This link may give me the answer to above question http://tx.mb21.co.uk/info/625/index.asp


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    This link is even more specific http://www.tvhistory.btinternet.co.uk/html/ni.html


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