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30 year old woman dies during London Marathon

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  • Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭JohnnyCrash


    BeepBeep67 wrote: »
    I don't want to be on the plane when the pilot has a heart attack :eek:
    And thats exactly my point.The pilot having a heart attack is outside your control,nothing you can do about it;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    Medicine has moved on to a point where there's a pretty good chance of survival when a problem has been identified!

    Even where it has not been identified as per the example of Fabrice Muamba recently.

    This young lady dying is a terrible tragedy but should not put anyone off training for and attempting a marathon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭PaulieC


    so much for listening to your body, eh ? :D

    Seriously though, unless there is something pretty obvious wrong, it's going to take a lot more than a blood test and check from a GP to find anything wrong. Since Fabrice Muamba was already brought up as an example, he would've gone through pretty extensive checks as a professional footballer, none of which uncovered a problem. In fact, even the checks he received at the chest hospital didn't show anything wrong - even after he collapsed.
    If I was a more serious athlete, then I would consider it, but since I am not and my health is generally good (at least according to the last check up I had last year) I am happy enough.
    Touch wood, please god, fingers crossed etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭smellslikeshoes


    Amazing how much is being donated, if you press refresh it's going up every time.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,043 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    It has now hit half a million.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭dub8


    martyoo wrote: »
    What is a comprehensive medical check? I'm doing my first marathon this year and need to get checked out.

    Is it enough to get bloods and an ECG done?

    A comprehensive medical for a serious enough runner should also have an echocardiogram, bloods and ecg's only tell so much. very sad that this has happened , but not surprising given the high volume of people running. but at least some good is coming from it and she not just another statistic, :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭PaulieC


    Does ecg != echocardiogram ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭dub8


    Does ecg != echocardiogram ?


    nope ! ECG = electrocardiograph, looks at electrics of heart. an echo is an ultrasound of the heart, will look at the heart muscle amongst other things! ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,103 ✭✭✭plodder


    martyoo wrote: »
    What is a comprehensive medical check? I'm doing my first marathon this year and need to get checked out.

    Is it enough to get bloods and an ECG done?
    I'm not even sure an ECG is always necessary. There are known risk factors for heart disease which a GP could check you out with, that would decide if a stress ECG is worthwhile. The simplest test that doesn't even need a doctor is to get your blood pressure checked. A regular GP checkup should be adequate beyond that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭rom




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭mitosis


    rom wrote: »


    "diagnosed with an irregular heartbeat by an acupuncturist." according to her boyfriends testimony.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭nerraw1111


    The supplement contains Dimethylamylamine DMAA which is banned in many countries.

    It's in "Jack 3D," which, worryingly, seems to be popular in Ireland.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056683294


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭ncmc


    rom wrote: »
    What is this DMMA that was found? Her boyfriend said he thought it was a strong caffiene, but it doesn't really go into detail about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Dtp79


    nerraw1111 wrote: »
    The supplement contains Dimethylamylamine DMAA which is banned in many countries.

    It's in "Jack 3D," which, worryingly, seems to be popular in Ireland.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056683294
    That jack 3D is frightening stuff. Mate of mine took it and he said he thought his heart was gonna jump out of his chest


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    If you wiki it, it's a form of chemical stimulant that's banned in many countries but is still added to lots of products marketed as dietary supplements and workout energy additives. These products would be primarily sold online, so it's most likely that she had no idea exactly what she was consuming, but bought on recommendation from elsewhere.

    She was into quackery like acupuncture, so it may even have been added to something marketed as a herbal or natural energy supplement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭ncmc


    seamus wrote: »
    If you wiki it, it's a form of chemical stimulant that's banned in many countries but is still added to lots of products marketed as dietary supplements and workout energy additives. These products would be primarily sold online, so it's most likely that she had no idea exactly what she was consuming, but bought on recommendation from elsewhere.

    She was into quackery like acupuncture, so it may even have been added to something marketed as a herbal or natural energy supplement.
    nerraw1111 wrote: »
    The supplement contains Dimethylamylamine DMAA which is banned in many countries.

    It's in "Jack 3D," which, worryingly, seems to be popular in Ireland.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056683294

    That is scary stuff!

    What I don't understand is that she was told by an acupuncturist that she had an irregular heartbeat, but then decided to run a marathon without consulting with her GP, plus took a supplement that increased the heart rate.

    Seems like very reckless behaviour and she unfortunately paid the ultimate price. Poor girl, RIP.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    The Irish Medicine Board and the FSAI released warnings about this last year
    DMAA is an illegal central nervous system stimulant related to amphetamine and has been found in food and sports supplements. It can cause high blood pressure, nausea, cerebral haemorrhage, stroke and in serious cases can be fatal. Consumers are advised not to purchase food supplements or products containing DMAA which may be available in retail outlets or online. People are advised that if they are feeling any ill effects after taking any of these food supplements/products that they should contact their doctor and retain/present the product in question. They are also advised to dispose of any additional food supplements/products listed below that they may have purchased.

    http://www.fsai.ie/news_centre/press_releases/supplements_DMAA_05072012.html listing the following products.

    1. Hemodrene
    2. Hemorush
    3. Crack
    4. Marrow Matters
    5. Jack3d
    6. Spriodex
    7. Napalm
    8. Lipo-6 Black

    Apparently the FDA have warned several companies that have used DMAA in their products as they haven't proven their safety but they're still available for purchase. I'm not aware of any of the products on the list but then again I take no notice of anything like this

    http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm302133.htm

    DMAA is also linked to at least two deaths in the US
    http://healthfinder.gov/News/Article.aspx?id=671269


    Brings up an issue that I've often wondered, how many amateur athletes take some form of 'performance enhancement' supplements, be they natural or manufactured.

    Edit: Reading that thread nerraw linked to, it's obviously a big thing in the body building world, scary when people claim it's safe contrary to the FDA and evidence proving otherwise.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,043 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    They were mentioning that it was "Jack 3d" in the BBC News item just now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    The Irish Medicine Board and the FSAI released warnings about this last year


    http://www.fsai.ie/news_centre/press_releases/supplements_DMAA_05072012.html listing the following products.

    1. Hemodrene
    2. Hemorush
    3. Crack
    4. Marrow Matters
    5. Jack3d
    6. Spriodex
    7. Napalm
    8. Lipo-6 Black

    Apparently the FDA have warned several companies that have used DMAA in their products as they haven't proven their safety but they're still available for purchase. I'm not aware of any of the products on the list but then again I take no notice of anything like this

    http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm302133.htm

    DMAA is also linked to at least two deaths in the US
    http://healthfinder.gov/News/Article.aspx?id=671269


    Brings up an issue that I've often wondered, how many amateur athletes take some form of 'performance enhancement' supplements, be they natural or manufactured.

    Edit: Reading that thread nerraw linked to, it's obviously a big thing in the body building world, scary when people claim it's safe contrary to the FDA and evidence proving otherwise.


    Never heard of any of them Where do you get Jack 3d? Is it like that other energy drink stuff in supermarkets and pubs? Only thing i ever took was redbull with vodka of course!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭youtube!


    Dunno if it has been mentioned yet on this thread or how widespread the knowledge even is but the facts are that Marathon running,even though the pinnacle of endurance is actually a very dangerous act.

    Yes this woman was on stimulants but even so the study below shows that the heart is not designed for the stresses of Marathon running over time, as it says once in a lifetime is about as much as one should do. Personally I started running 5Ks last year and am going towards 10K but thats it!


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9712585/Too-many-marathons-can-kill-warn-doctors.html


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    youtube! wrote: »
    Dunno if it has been mentioned yet on this thread or how widespread the knowledge even is but the facts are that Marathon running,even though the pinnacle of endurance is actually a very dangerous act.

    Yes this woman was on stimulants but even so the study below shows that the heart is not designed for the stresses of Marathon running over time, as it says once in a lifetime is about as much as one should do. Personally I started running 5Ks last year and am going towards 10K but thats it!


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9712585/Too-many-marathons-can-kill-warn-doctors.html


    Marathon running no more dangerous than crossing a road. You listen to your body, dont over do it, get regular check ups etc.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,043 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Marathon running no more dangerous than crossing a road. You listen to your body, dont over do it, get regular check ups etc.
    +1
    It's far safer than sitting on your backside.

    Take a random selection of 40,000 people on one day of the year and you'll probably find that at a couple of them die that day.

    Take 40,000 marathon runners and there is one dies every 3 or 4 years on that day, and it then makes the headlines. Obviously statistics are all made up, but I think I'll take my chances with the going for a marathon run based on that. My chances of survival are better than those of someone sat at home watching it on the telly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    youtube! wrote: »
    Dunno if it has been mentioned yet on this thread or how widespread the knowledge even is but the facts are that Marathon running,even though the pinnacle of endurance is actually a very dangerous act.
    They cite the example of Micah True, the hero of the book Born to Run about ultra-endurance running.
    He died in March, aged 58, on a 12-mile training run in New Mexico. He routinely ran a marathon a day, sometimes more.
    They believe that decades of such exertion led him to develop Phidippides cardiomyopathy.
    Seriously? To prove how dangerous marathon running is, they cite the case of a man who ran 170 miles a week for 38 years? The guy ran more marathons in a month than most leisure runners do in their entire lives.

    Back-of-napkin figures suggest that's about 320,000 miles over the course of his life, nearly 14,000 "marathons". That to me demonstrates that long-distance running is in fact exceptionally safe, especially if you only run a small number every year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,434 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    youtube! wrote: »
    Dunno if it has been mentioned yet on this thread or how widespread the knowledge even is but the facts are that Marathon running,even though the pinnacle of endurance is actually a very dangerous act.

    Yes this woman was on stimulants but even so the study below shows that the heart is not designed for the stresses of Marathon running over time, as it says once in a lifetime is about as much as one should do. Personally I started running 5Ks last year and am going towards 10K but thats it!


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9712585/Too-many-marathons-can-kill-warn-doctors.html
    ...yeah, try reading the actual paper that's referenced. From the abstract:
    However, this concept is still hypothetical and there is some inconsistency in the reported findings. Furthermore, lifelong vigorous exercisers generally have low mortality rates and excellent functional capacity.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭louthandproud


    seamus wrote: »
    Seriously? To prove how dangerous marathon running is, they cite the case of a man who ran 170 miles a week for 38 years? The guy ran more marathons in a month than most leisure runners do in their entire lives.

    Back-of-napkin figures suggest that's about 320,000 miles over the course of his life, nearly 14,000 "marathons". That to me demonstrates that long-distance running is in fact exceptionally safe, especially if you only run a small number every year.


    Here's an interesting paper on the topic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭drquirky


    seamus wrote: »

    She was into quackery like acupuncture, so it may even have been added to something marketed as a herbal or natural energy supplement.

    Wouldn't call acupuncture quackery and to do so is just silly imo. On the other hand you'd wanna be a lot smarter about what you put in your body than this poor woman.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭youtube!


    Jeez the Marathon Nazis are out in force today huh?

    Thank you Louthandproud for the paper the conclusion of which I have pasted below...facts are facts.






    CONCLUSION
    The take home message for most is to
    limit one’s vigorous exercise to 30–
    50 min/day. If one really wants to do a
    marathon or full-distance triathlon etc, it
    may be best to do just one or a few and
    then proceed to safer and healthier exercise
    patterns. On the other hand, light or
    moderate intensity exercise does not
    present the dose-dependent risks associated
    with excessive endurance exercise.
    A routine of moderate physical activity
    will add life to your years, as well as
    years to your life. In contrast, running
    too fast, too far, and for too many years
    may speed one’s progress towards the
    finish line of life.
    Contributors JHO and CJL contributed.
    Competing interests None.
    Provenance and peer review Commissioned;
    internally peer reviewed.
    Author note A video presentation on this topic is
    available on the internet: You Tube, TEDx Talk, James
    O’Keefe, Run for your life… at a comfortable pace and
    not too far.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭drquirky


    youtube! wrote: »
    Jeez the Marathon Nazis are out in force today huh?

    In fairness you are someone who doesn't exercise and is posting negative, biased research in the Athletics and Running forum and telling us what we do is unsafe...what kind of response did you expect? BTW if marathon running is so dangerous, where are the bodies? Surely there should be 10's to hundreds of dead people at the end of a big city marathon, no?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    youtube! wrote: »
    Jeez the Marathon Nazis are out in force today huh?

    Thank you Louthandproud for the paper the conclusion of which I have pasted below...facts are facts.






    CONCLUSION
    The take home message for most is to
    limit one’s vigorous exercise to 30–
    50 min/day. If one really wants to do a
    marathon or full-distance triathlon etc, it
    may be best to do just one or a few and
    then proceed to safer and healthier exercise
    patterns. On the other hand, light or
    moderate intensity exercise does not
    present the dose-dependent risks associated
    with excessive endurance exercise.
    A routine of moderate physical activity
    will add life to your years, as well as
    years to your life. In contrast, running
    too fast, too far, and for too many years
    may speed one’s progress towards the
    finish line of life.
    Contributors JHO and CJL contributed.
    Competing interests None.
    Provenance and peer review Commissioned;
    internally peer reviewed.
    Author note A video presentation on this topic is
    available on the internet: You Tube, TEDx Talk, James
    O’Keefe, Run for your life… at a comfortable pace and
    not too far.


    They uses the word "maybe" for god sake. Article also said marathons wont kill anyone.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,434 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    youtube! wrote: »
    Jeez the Marathon Nazis are out in force today huh?

    Thank you Louthandproud for the paper the conclusion of which I have pasted below...facts are facts.
    Wrong again. That is not a source paper, it's an article drawing a conclusion from various papers. One of those papers is the article's authors' own, from which I posted the quote above:
    However, this concept is still hypothetical and there is some inconsistency in the reported findings. Furthermore, lifelong vigorous exercisers generally have low mortality rates and excellent functional capacity.
    I can't find the Minnesota paper they mention, but the German one they mention is here, and if you read it, you'll see that the FRS (10-year cardiovascular risk of an individual) of regular marathon runners was lower than their sedentary counterparts. The surprising thing from the study was that regular marathon runners had higher levels of CAC, which is a possible risk factor in cardiovascular health. Even allowing for this, the marathon runners were still had a lower cardiovascular risk than non-marathon runners.

    So I suggest learning a bit more about the topic at hand before throwing around "nazi" comments

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