Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Martin McGuinness to be named as Sinn Féins candidate for the Presidential Election?

13468925

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    hmmm wrote: »
    I don't know about that, but they certainly were major contributors to continuing it long past the point where it had any justification.

    We may have a Sinn Fein president in the future, but the memories of Enniskillen, the deaths of two children in Warrington and the bombings in London & Manchester are still too fresh.

    Indeed they really need to clarify what their current position on these atrocites are. Military target wont cut it anymore.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭blahfckingblah


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    That comment had nothing to so with grammar, and you know it.

    It was the fact that most SF people refuse point-blank to refer to this state by its name, therefore having one of them as its president is absolutely ridiculous and objectionable.

    Would America stand for having a president that referred to their country as "North America" or "Southern Canada" ?
    http://www.boards.ie/search/?q=the+North&f=&subforums=1&u=84799&title=&threads=&date_from=&date_to=&sort=newest a list of places where you refer to Northern Ireland as "the North", and one slice of humble pie to go.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    Baralis1 wrote: »
    Did she not work as a lecturer here? I could be mistaken.

    She was Reid Professor in Law in Trinity alright.


  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭round tower huntsman


    dlofnep wrote: »
    The name of the state is Éire/Ireland. Republicans view Ireland as a single nation, comprising of the entire Island, as does the constitution of this Republic
    actually i think your wrong there. as part of the gfa we dropped articles 2 and 3, we gave away our claim on the osc. its no longer in our constitution.
    i stand to be corrected.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    dlofnep wrote: »
    The name of the state is Éire/Ireland. Republicans view Ireland as a single nation, comprising of the entire Island, as does the constitution of this Republic

    Only those who rejected the GFA could do so. Anyone, who accepted the GFA agreed to give up that title. Northern Ireland is completely separate.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    actually i think your wrong there. as part of the gfa we dropped articles 2 and 3, we gave away our claim on the osc. its no longer in our constitution.
    i stand to be corrected.

    SF will never let the small matter of facts get in the way of their agenda, which is part of the problem I have with them.

    If you mention the GFA to them they'll point out that that means the criminals were released, but they conveniently ignore the fact that you just pointed out.

    To them the "wish" is their reality......despite the fact that my "wish" would be to have all those who murdered innocents still in jail.

    I had to accept the compromise, but SF refuse to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    It will be interesting to see how Martin McGuinness gets on and if he is elected. I for one would not vote for him. If he is elected I feel it will be a step back for our country, although the President role IMO is largely symbolic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    actually i think your wrong there. as part of the gfa we dropped articles 2 and 3, we gave away our claim on the osc. its no longer in our constitution.
    i stand to be corrected.

    I am not wrong. Our constitutional claim as a matter of default was dropped, but the constitution still refers to the Island of Ireland as the Irish nation.
    It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation.
    It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland

    Note that it is very carefully worded to state the 'Irish nation', rather than the Irish 'state'. The aspiration for a united Ireland is constitutionally affirmed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    actually i think your wrong there. as part of the gfa we dropped articles 2 and 3, we gave away our claim on the osc. its no longer in our constitution.
    i stand to be corrected.


    This is what it says
    Under the terms of the 1998 Belfast Agreement, Articles 2 and 3 were amended to remove any reference to a "national territory", and to state that a united Ireland should only come about with the consent of majorities in both the jurisdictions on the island of Ireland. The amended Articles also guarantee the people of Northern Ireland the right to be a "part of the Irish Nation", and to Irish citizenship.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    actually i think your wrong there. as part of the gfa we dropped articles 2 and 3, we gave away our claim on the osc. its no longer in our constitution.
    i stand to be corrected.
    No I am afraid you are wrong. Aericles 2 and 3 were amended, not dropped:
    As amended they grant the right to be "part of the Irish Nation" to all of those born on the island of Ireland and express a desire for the peaceful political unification of the island subject to the consent of the people of Northern Ireland. Before 1999, Articles 2 and 3 made the claim that the whole island formed one "national territory".


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    dlofnep wrote: »
    The name of the state is Éire/Ireland. Republicans view Ireland as a single nation, comprising of the entire Island, as does the constitution of this Republic. So, to use colloquial terms which highlight that the Island is partitioned is perfectly acceptable and is used by many politicians in Ireland outside of Sinn Féin who often use the phrase 'the north of the country'.

    You're going to have to get over your hang-up on such trivial bollocks such as terms like 'the south/the north/6 counties/' etc... It comes across as petty.


    I am not terribly sure who has the hangup; as Sinn Fein has traditionally (SF4 and 5) ignored the legitimacy of the Dail and has considered both the civil authorities and armed forces of Ireland to be legitimate targets for their armed wing. When a party has, from pragmatic reasons, held its nose to enter your parliament, it is not surprising when people attribute their apparently sloppy engagement with the legal definitions of the states within which they reside, as a very deliberate, and possibly sinister symbolic gesture.

    The Troubles have taught the island of Ireland to forgive and forget.

    Perhaps forgive is the wrong word for former paramilitary members and were tainted at the very least, by association, but we can at least tolerate.

    Forgetting members of the Old Guard such as McGunniess would also be a step forward, not least for SF itself; who are still in the eyes of many the inheritors of a bloody legacy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    It is reassuring to so see many posters know their constitution.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    SF will never let the small matter of facts get in the way of their agenda, which is part of the problem I have with them.

    I have already highlighted that this is not a fact.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭Le King


    I am not terribly sure who has the hangup; as Sinn Fein has traditionally (SF4 and 5) ignored the legitimacy of the Dail and has considered both the civil authorities and armed forces of Ireland to be legitimate targets for their armed wing. When a party has, from pragmatic reasons, held its nose to enter your parliament, it is not surprising when people attribute their apparently sloppy engagement with the legal definitions of the states within which they reside, as a very deliberate, and possibly sinister symbolic gesture.

    The Troubles have taught the island of Ireland to forgive and forget.

    Perhaps forgive is the wrong word for former paramilitary members and were tainted at the very least, by association, but we can at least tolerate.

    Forgetting members of the Old Guard such as McGunniess would also be a step forward, not least for SF itself; who are still in the eyes of many the inheritors of a bloody legacy.


    I've read some crap here, but, my god.
    McGuinness is the outstanding candidate here by far. Will get my vote anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭A Primal Nut


    This is possibly true. He has also spoiled any chance of Mary Davies or Sean Gallagher having a chance at winning, they'll get squeezed. They should drop out now to save some money.

    McGunniess will just say sure wasn't Dev in the IRA when asked about his IRA past and he has a point.

    I don't think he has a point. The IRA during early 20th century is different to the one during the troubles. There are many reasons for this; but nobody ever seems to explain it, even the media just take it for granted that they are different without really explaining it.

    The IRA of the early 20th century did not:

    1) Bomb indiscriminately with vague warnings or none at all. Even De Valera cracked down on the IRA when they began a bombing campain in the late 1930s.
    2) Target Protestants because of their religion
    3) Engage in punishment beatings or kneecapping. Michael Collins specifically opposed this
    4) Engage in Proxy bombings :mad:

    All of these and more occurred during the troubles under direct orders from the IRA army council which included Adams, McGuinness and Ferris, and some actions were carried out directly by them.

    If you are prepared to forgive them for that then fine, but I wish people would stop using the early 20th century IRA to compare. I've often seen Gerry Adams compare himself to Michael Collins and his comrades, and nobody seems willing to challenge him on it or tell him the difference.

    http://sarasmichaelcollinssite.com/an_illustrious_career
    http://patrickmacmanus.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/de-valera-crushing-the-irish-republican-army-ira/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭Cicero


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    He would be an excellent choice imo,

    As OP, it would be helpful to this thread if you documented your reasons :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭round tower huntsman


    yeah so we gave up the claim over the osc's and accepted it as british territory and that britian had sovereignty over the northern part of our island. if britain is sovereign in the osc how can it be part of the irish nation??
    thats why republicans reject britains sovereignty in ireland and claim the whole 32 c's as the irish nation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Cicero wrote: »
    As OP, it would be helpful to this thread if you documented your reasons :)
    Perhaps you should read the rest of my post?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭Cicero


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Perhaps you should read the rest of my post?

    I did...my question stands.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 189 ✭✭Bergkamp 10


    He will get my vote because as of yet, he is the best man for the job and will do it well.

    Simple as.

    The only other worthy candidate is Micheal D Higgins. Even then, McGuiness would probably represent the country better than Higgins anyway.

    As for the rest, all celebrity dross.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    yeah so we gave up the claim over the osc's and accepted it as british territory and that britian had sovereignty over the northern part of our island. if britain is sovereign in the osc how can it be part of the irish nation??
    thats why republicans reject britains sovereignty in ireland and claim the whole 32 c's as the irish nation.
    No the Constitution recognises that the irish nation is actually a seperate entity from the actual physical land of ireland and that a part of that land mass is effectively under British rule for the moment and will be until a united Ireland is brought about peacefully by the consent of a majority of people in both jurisdictions.
    Article 3.2 allows for institutions with executive powers and functions that are shared between the two jurisdictions to be establised.
    Aerricle two, as amended, allows everybody born on the island of Ireland the entitlement to be part of the irish nation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    I've often seen Gerry Adams compare himself to Michael Collins and his comrades, and nobody seems willing to challenge him on it or tell him the difference.

    Is this the same Michael Collins who ordered members of his squad to execute two Catholic girls because they were romantically involved with two British soldiers? You, like many Irish people, seem happy to gloss over the nasty aspects of the old IRA in order to try and differentiate them from the Provos.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    Before we disappear down a constitutional rabbit hole can people please remember both OP and the main topic at hand please. I'm not sure that longwinded discussions on the correct terms for various places are really OT tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭round tower huntsman


    britain is sovereign in the osc's, thats fact. it wasnt the peace process that allowed lizzie to visit a while back, she refused until we accpeted her sovereignty in the osc's, dropping, eh amending, 2&3 allowed for her visit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭blahfckingblah


    Cicero wrote: »
    I did...my question stands.
    he means this :
    He has proved himself a very capable statesman and he has handled the difficult position of deputy first minister with ease. He is a great republican and Irishman.


  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭round tower huntsman


    Is this the same Michael Collins who ordered members of his squad to execute two Catholic girls because they were romantically involved with two British soldiers? You, like many Irish people, seem happy to gloss over the nasty aspects of the old IRA in order to try and differentiate them from the Provos.

    the provos and psf people are pretty apt at doing that now. "the good old ira v's bad new ira" is as old as the struggle it self.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    britain is sovereign in the osc's, thats fact. it wasnt the peace process that allowed lizzie to visit a while back, she refused until we accpeted her sovereignty in the osc's, dropping, eh amending, 2&3 allowed for her visit.
    She is jsut like a vintiloquists dummy and goes where she is told and says what she is told to say.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Is this the same Michael Collins who ordered members of his squad to execute two Catholic girls because they were romantically involved with two British soldiers? You, like many Irish people, seem happy to gloss over the nasty aspects of the old IRA in order to try and differentiate them from the Provos.
    Yes so what ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭round tower huntsman


    anymore wrote: »
    She is jsut like a vintiloquists dummy and goes where she is told and says what she is told to say.

    insults?? when the truth hurts attack the player not the ball eh?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭Cicero


    he means this :

    ^^^^^..no.."he" mean this...below is original OP post....I have asked for reasons why M.McG should be president...OP has asserted that these are his reasons.....I see nothing here in this post that merits presidential consideration.

    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Rumors all over twitter and elsewhere that he will be named as Sinn Féins presidential candidate this evening.

    He would be an excellent choice imo, he would certainly get my vote and he should preform decently in the election, although I wouldn't expect him to win.

    He would be the perfect man to oversee the centenary of the Easter rising. He has proved himself a very capable statesman and he has handled the difficult position of deputy first minister with ease. He is a great republican and Irishman.

    Even Reverend David Latimer, a Presbyterian minister, has said that Martin McGuinness is a "great leader". He would be a great president too.

    The Sindo certainly won't like this election! :D


Advertisement