Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The dawn of television in Ireland

  • 10-01-2006 11:00pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 394 ✭✭


    Right! To business.

    The earliest reference in the Oireactas debates - a fantastic resource - to television being received in the Republic is on 25 May 1950. I don't normally "cut and paste" but will make an exception here.

    Deputy Bob Briscoe of Fianna Fail has the honours.
    There are one or two people in this country, maybe half a dozen, who may be able under certain conditions to receive television given out from Wales and I do not know if the Minister will bring in some measure to make the people who have television sets pay for a different licence whether we are televising or not. It is not a problem at the moment and I personally feel that the Department is to be congratulated for not rushing into this thing without seeing where they are heading.

    The question to the learned and erudite folks here is this: What transmitters did the honours? Can we generate maps for Holme Moss, Wenvoe etc and attempt to pinpoint exactly when television was first remotely possible to be received here?

    Someone must have been the first to bring a television set here - perhaps our reverse cultural cringe against all things British may have inspired them to keep quiet?

    By January 1952 things had moved on to an extent, again apologies for the C&P:
    Mr. Everett asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs whether he is aware that in districts along the east coast television broadcasts are being received from another country and whether, in view of the cumulative damaging effect which these broadcasts may have on our national culture, he will take the necessary steps to introduce television broadcasting in the Republic of Ireland with a minimum of delay.


    Mr. Childers: The Government has so far not given any formal consideration to the question of television, and I cannot say whether the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs will have any responsibility for television beyond the control of wave-lengths. The views I express in the reply are, therefore, based only on general information and not on official study.

    It is well known that British television transmissions are being received in the east coast localities here. While it would probably be going too far to say that the reception is of a freak nature, general information is that it is indifferent, and I have not heard or read of anybody who claimed to be getting consistent and reliable reception. [218] All parts of this country are certainly outside the normal service area of the nearest British television station.

    I should like to make it clear to the public that in my view the establishment of television in this country will not be practicable for a number of years. The cost of providing and maintaining a service for even a relatively small part of the country would be heavy. The erection of modern broadcasting studios is in any event receiving prior consideration.

    Mr. Everett: I can assure the Minister that there is a good reception not far away from my own residence and not a freak reception. There are six or seven sets there and they can get a very good reception. In view of the large number of sets now being sold, will the Minister reconsider the matter?

    Mr. Childers: The Deputy may not be aware that one of the many cultural projects cancelled by the last Government was the construction of a new broadcasting station. That will have to be considered in relation to any effort undertaken to provide a television service.

    Mr. Everett: There were only a few sets in the country then. In the last few months the number has grown to 400 or 500.

    James Everett was the National Labour TD for Wicklow and Minister for Posts and Telegraphs under the 1948-1951 Inter Party Government and Erskine Childers, later President of Ireland after Eamon DeValera, was Minister for Posts and Telegraphs between 1951 and 1954.


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 394 ✭✭Propellerhead


    First new subject rolling now folks..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    Welcome aboard...!

    :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭damienom


    Very good book by Luke Gibbons. Transformations In Irish Culture I think it's called, interesting chapter on television and the development of telly drama in it


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    If I remember correctly, Robert Savage's Irish Television: The Social and Political Origins is a good reference for the beginnings of Irish television, though it ends before Telefís Éireann ever got to the air - been a while since I read it though.

    The 1950s saw committee and commission after each other - Gael-Linn put in a proposal to set up a service (naturally in Irish only), there was talk that an Irish version of the IBA appoint a contractor to operate the TV service (with programming presumably drawn from the UK ITV network), there were even some mad proposals that the TV service could be used to broadcast to Britain. It was only towards the end of the decade that the proposal to let Radio Éireann run the service (and establish it as its own public corporation independent of the P&T) was finalised.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Telefís


    Yes a fascinating, if somewhat repetitive book.

    Leon O'Broin is my hero :)

    And extraordinary man, who worked doggedly in the Dep of P&T for a decade to get a publicly funded national broadcaster up and running.
    It's extraordinary how the Irish public were so willing to hand their broadcasting rights away to a foreign commercial company - reflects Ireland a lot I think. Poeple in this country gnerally don't have a sense of civic pride I think - on a community level yes, but otherwise a 'who cares, let the market rule' attitude permeates Irish society to an unfortunate degree, and especially today.

    Perhaps it was more a sense of people not realising the importance and the impact of television at the time - but certainly the politicians should have known better.
    Commerical television was on the agenda from the very beginning to the very end, in spite of O'Broin's efforts. Were it not for a sudden bizarre change of mind on the part of Seán Lemass and the Dept of Finance we'd have had a commerical televison service set up in Ireland (though things may have changed in the meantime).

    Most people don't know this extraordinary story - it's been swept under the carpet.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    Didnt PYE petition the Irish Government for a broadcasting licence at one point in the 1950's ?
    there were even some mad proposals that the TV service could be used to broadcast to Britain
    Would have had to overcome a lot of technical difficulties like
    1) It would never have been possible to get a signal far beyond the west coast of England/Wales
    2) VHF band (particularly Band 1) in most parts of the UK was already heavily overcrowded resulting in lots of co-channel interference
    3) Need for a seperate recieving Aerial by those wishing to recieve the service (in addition to the 2-3 aerials already in use for UK channels during the 1950's/60's)
    4) Frequency spectrum allocated to Ireland barely sufficent for domestic needs due to Ireland's failure to send delegate to 1956 Stockholm conference*

    * =Probably couldnt get the airfare from the Dept of Finance. From any account Ive read of the period nobody -not even a government minister could literally scratch their @r$€; without getting approval from at least three senior civil servents in the Dept of Finance. Granted times were hard but one wonders If a pirate TV station had started in the 1950's would the Post Office had been given the resources to do anything about it (apparently they had a hell of a job onetime getting permission to buy a TV set :rolleyes: ) and if such a pirate station were reasonably tax-compliant then anything was possible ????????????


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Hmm. Has idea. Isn't there a DeLorian left in the Ulster Transport Museaum?

    Due to only moving to this part of Ireland in early 1983, I didn't realise the shaky start TV had.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 394 ✭✭Propellerhead


    Holme Moss opened in 1951, so any reference to BBC television being received in Ireland prior to then has to mean Sutton Coldfield. :eek: Impressive!

    I read over the weekend that when Holme Moss opened, a radio dealer in Athlone had set up a television in the shop and was receiving Holme Moss. That's a hell of a journey for even a Band I signal to travel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 394 ✭✭Propellerhead


    Telef&#237 wrote: »
    Yes a fascinating, if somewhat repetitive book.

    Leon O'Broin is my hero :)

    And extraordinary man, who worked doggedly in the Dep of P&T for a decade to get a publicly funded national broadcaster up and running.
    It's extraordinary how the Irish public were so willing to hand their broadcasting rights away to a foreign commercial company - reflects Ireland a lot I think. Poeple in this country gnerally don't have a sense of civic pride I think - on a community level yes, but otherwise a 'who cares, let the market rule' attitude permeates Irish society to an unfortunate degree, and especially today.

    Perhaps it was more a sense of people not realising the importance and the impact of television at the time - but certainly the politicians should have known better.
    Commerical television was on the agenda from the very beginning to the very end, in spite of O'Broin's efforts. Were it not for a sudden bizarre change of mind on the part of Seán Lemass and the Dept of Finance we'd have had a commerical televison service set up in Ireland (though things may have changed in the meantime).

    Most people don't know this extraordinary story - it's been swept under the carpet.


    I read the book over the weekend in London and was struck that TK Whittaker was even more trenchant as secretary of Finance against the introduction of television than his venerable predecessor McElligott.

    One of the arguments canvassed was that if a television service was set up in the Republic valuable savings would be liquidated to buy televisions and the State's finances would be correspondingly in danger.

    What a bunch of beggars we must have looked as the fifties wore on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Telefís


    Not only that Propellerhead, even as late as the early 70s I've read the painfully slow introduction of colour was in no small part due to Government's reluctance to 'destabilise' the economy with people going out and buying colour sets in large numbers!

    You'd wonder, you really would.....:rolleyes:


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 10,726 ✭✭✭✭DMC


    In contrast, the population, and the amount of people in the labour force was a fraction of what we have today.

    Keeping the missus looked indoors certainly didnt help.

    A colour telly was.... 10 times the average industrial wage back then? (pure guess?)


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Growing up in what was then more Prosperous East Antrim, most TVs were rented.

    I remember in 1982 a film released on VHS was about £150 sterling. No wonder they were only rented.

    I'd guess Colour TV in early 1970s was comparable to price of a small car today. We were not poor. But it was quite a while after Colour Tv arrived that we rented. It was almost fully transistorised. I've repaired one early all valve colour set.

    On the Dual standard sets there was a long switch running the length of the set. My repairs to those (moslty B&W) was by ripping out the switch and soldering all the 625 contacts.

    I still have a 1980s B&W 12" set for security camera, I got for nothing but the last B&W I watched as a main TV was till January 1983 when I bought new an 8" portable colour set and a portable full size VHS recorder (with option for a separate camera). It had a matching size non-portable TV tuner that plugged into the camera socket. I never had a camera for it.

    I did have an ex-industrial Panasonic 1/2" tape reel to reel B&W portable recorder and B&W vidicon camera from 1979 till 1989 when I gave it away with most of my other electonics "hobby" stuff when we left Limerick to live abroad. I'd say emigrated except we came back to Limerick in 1990 or 1991.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭jaqian


    Our first TV was a rented b&w as they were too expensive to buy. We had it from '73/74 up to '79/80 when we bought our first TV which was colour and I think was made by BUSH. I think we rented it off RTV Rentals or they took over the original shop. Not sure. Earliest program I remember watching as a kid was Playschool, Basil Brush & The Wanderly Wagon. Don't remember any Irish programs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    Ummm Wanderly Wagon WAS an Irish programme was it not ?


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Indeed so, probably one of RTÉ's longest running children's drama series, running 1968-1982. Last seen repeated in a very early morning slot about five years ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭jaqian


    Ummm Wanderly Wagon WAS an Irish programme was it not ?

    Whoops big mistake meant to say "other than" the ww.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭Blackjack


    DMC wrote:
    In contrast, the population, and the amount of people in the labour force was a fraction of what we have today.

    Keeping the missus looked indoors certainly didnt help.

    Yep, mass unemployment, and single earning families were the order of the day.
    DMC wrote:
    A colour telly was.... 10 times the average industrial wage back then? (pure guess?)

    Probably not far off, I've no idea what a colour telly actually cost back then, but, I seem to recall my dad buying a telly in about 82, and it cost a few hundred at least, if I recall correctly it was about 500 punts.

    Average industrial wage then was about 160 euro (source), or about 125 punts, before tax, which would have been considerably higher than it is now.
    You can understand the Gov of the time being concerned about a mass purchasing of Colour tellies, a luxury item back then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    icdg wrote:
    Indeed so, probably one of RTÉ's longest running children's drama series, running 1968-1982. Last seen repeated in a very early morning slot about five years ago.

    Wondered why we never saw it. Moved to Limerick in Jan 1983. Bosco was it. Though I think they especially auditioned for presenters that couldn't sing. My eldest was quite fond of Bosco, but not so much that 20 years later to get the RTE DVD for Christmas.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Telefís


    :D


    If a set cost £500 in 1982 as Blackjack says, then things didn't really change much in the intervening years. In 1990 or so we got a new television - a standard 21" Nordmende which cost £400! Items like that were so expenvive until the late 1990s. In a way it's a pity they still aren't - now items are so cheap and disposable that it's generally financially worth just checking em :(

    What a lovely set that Nordmende was come to think of it; well built, nice size, attractive square proportions, good design, and best of all glorious 4:3.
    Ah, those were the days.............


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭rogue-entity


    What EM/Radio Frequency ranges were assigned to Ireland? Were we only given a certain range of frequencies to use for all our transmissions be it television, radio or mobile? What is to stop us from just taking the entire range of useable frequencies (ie 30KHz-30+GHz)and [ComReg] dividing them up and assigning them for use. I know this is a little off topic, but I am just curious.

    Oh, one other thing, how did CableLink and MMDS come to be in Ireland and why do you need a licence to broadcast on Cable, I mean Cable transmissions are closed circuit and are not openly receivable.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    All spectrum 10kHz to 1000GHz is agreed by International Treaty.

    I suppose if the USA or Russia decided to do their own thing there would be a lot of grumbling and we would have to work around it. ON the occasions Ireland has made desicions contrary to the local rgeion it has created problems of compatibility, supply, interference.

    Anyone can subscribe to Cable TV. It is PAY TV, but PUBLIC. If you have a licenced PRIVATE circuit you can put whatever you like, for example Cable TV in Ireland can't show live cam of a Brothel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    Cable transmissions are closed circuit and are not openly receivable.
    In theory perhaps but most Cable systems in the Republic have such horrendus levels of signal leakage that to describe them as closed systems is rather laughable
    Oh, one other thing, how did CableLink and MMDS come to be in Ireland
    Cablelink (now bought over by NTL) came about as a gradual merger of lots of small CATV and MATV networks
    I could sum up in a single word the process of how MMDS came to be in Ireland but Id probably better wait until the relevent tribunals have concluded
    for example Cable TV in Ireland can't show live cam of a Brothel.
    Unless of course its during a programme called Oireachtas Report (see comment above)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭rogue-entity


    watty wrote:
    All spectrum 10kHz to 1000GHz is agreed by International Treaty.

    I suppose if the USA or Russia decided to do their own thing there would be a lot of grumbling and we would have to work around it. ON the occasions Ireland has made desicions contrary to the local rgeion it has created problems of compatibility, supply, interference.

    Anyone can subscribe to Cable TV. It is PAY TV, but PUBLIC. If you have a licenced PRIVATE circuit you can put whatever you like, for example Cable TV in Ireland can't show live cam of a Brothel.

    So if we have 1KHz-1THz, what is the deal. We are able to use the entire useable frequency range, so there is no problem really. And since the US likly has use of the same frequency range, why would they want to "do something different".

    I still do not see the point of needing a "broadcast" licence for cable TV. I mean, the network is public, although also private in that it is not openly accessable by anyone, just subscribers. The signals from the network are not sent through the air so theoreticaly dont interfer with other users of the same frequencies. At least with a sattelite uplink, you are broadcasting through the air and as such would need a broadcast licence for the frequency you are using.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The Cable TV operator needs a licence. This is more about getting a near monopoly to string a cable about a city than spectrum.

    The providers (channels) need licences on Cable for CONTENT, not spectrum, as the Cable is sold/connected to the public. There are plenty of German and Spanish channels FTA (anyone with Dish and receiver, no subscription) that would not be allowed on Irish Cable / MMDS. Similar content to top shelf in Newsagents to much more explicit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    IIRC its actually 9KHz to 256 GHz thats covered by the international radio regulations although national legislation covers everything form zero to 3000 GHz

    There are a number of reasons why cable is subject to regulation among them
    Cable networks can leak signals and cause interference (especially if they are pure junk like most Irish ones are) and that communication by wire across other peoples property and/or public highways has been regulated since the 19th century. One cant for example run out and start their own telephone company -Its the same for cable TV

    BTW am I the only one who reckons this thread has drifted WAY off topic


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    It's the Internet, it's expected :)
    AFASIK only submarines use below 50kHz, and all above 10kHz. Very few receivers have below 100kHz. A tiny few do down to 50kHz.

    Some commercial gear exists for 200GHz, and some research at 400GHz. The upper limit would be changed quick enough if anyone figured how to use it:)

    AFASIK currently a roof top Infra Red laser 200Mbps or 2GBps link can be installed licence free. Probabily a loop hole.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    ummm are rooftop lasers(especially infra-red) only allowed if theyre very low power ?

    High power ones baing be dangerous any eyes that get in the way :eek:

    What "frequency" (wavelength) do the infra red diodes in TV remore controls use ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    maybe about 850nm.

    A million times higher frequency than 353GHz

    It's a fairly wide beam via lenses I think. To avoid blinding birds and make sure a bird only reduces the signal and not block it.

    Do not look into the apparatus with the remaining eye.


    \|/_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    /|\


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    watty wrote:
    Growing up in what was then more Prosperous East Antrim, most TVs were rented.

    I remember in 1982 a film released on VHS was about £150 sterling. No wonder they were only rented.

    I'd guess Colour TV in early 1970s was comparable to price of a small car today. We were not poor. But it was quite a while after Colour Tv arrived that we rented. It was almost fully transistorised. I've repaired one early all valve colour set.

    On the Dual standard sets there was a long switch running the length of the set. My repairs to those (moslty B&W) was by ripping out the switch and soldering all the 625 contacts.

    I still have a 1980s B&W 12" set for security camera, I got for nothing but the last B&W I watched as a main TV was till January 1983 when I bought new an 8" portable colour set and a portable full size VHS recorder (with option for a separate camera). It had a matching size non-portable TV tuner that plugged into the camera socket. I never had a camera for it.

    I did have an ex-industrial Panasonic 1/2" tape reel to reel B&W portable recorder and B&W vidicon camera from 1979 till 1989 when I gave it away with most of my other electonics "hobby" stuff when we left Limerick to live abroad. I'd say emigrated except we came back to Limerick in 1990 or 1991.

    My Dad bought a Philips G8 in 1972 for £200 (I think) and a Hirschmann Quad to receive Group A from Cornwall (Westward TV). He was also big into satellite TV from the mid-80s. 1.8m dish I think.:) I myself bought a Panasonic VHS recorder in 1979 for £870. I think my wages were something like £70 - £80 per week.:rolleyes:


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    In theory perhaps but most Cable systems in the Republic have such horrendus levels of signal leakage that to describe them as closed systems is rather laughable

    Most cable networks are now subject to stringent controls and are required to minimise leakage.
    Cablelink (now bought over by NTL) came about as a gradual merger of lots of small CATV and MATV networks

    Not true. That would be Chorus. In Dublin during the early 70s there were three main companies - Marlin Communal Aerials (MCA); Phoenix Relays; and RTE Relays. They would not be classed as small by any stretch of the imagination - even today.

    Phoenix and Marlin merged and were bought out by Rogers Cablesystems Inc of Canada (one of the world's largest). The story goes that Rogers also wanted RTE but they wouldn't sell. Rogers in turn sold out to them.

    The merged entity became known as Cableink in 1986 (two years later) and it was subsequently bought out a couple of years later by Eircom (with RTE retaining a 25% stake).

    This turned out to be one of the worst decisions taken in Ireland's history as it severely restricted the development of a real competitor for Eircom.:( The rest, as they say, is history.:)


Advertisement