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Cashless Society

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    A more detailed anatomy of the code http://www.glondon.com/beast.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    You're still ignoring the basic point that you're misreading the barcodes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    humanji wrote: »
    You're still ignoring the basic point that you're misreading the barcodes.
    I have yet to see you produce a proper schematic diagram proving the hidden theory wrong. I have done my part and produced the diagrams.

    The code itself was designed by George J. Laurer who I do believe was unaware of it at the time as it was more than likely a computer generated code and just by coincidence it ended out this way. He admits himself that that the protruding codes resembles a six.

    The following question was put to George J. Laurer.

    Rumor has it that the lines (left, middle, and right) that protrude below the U.P.C. code are the numbers 6,6,6... and that this is the international money code. I typed a code with all sixes and this seems to be true. At least they all resemble sixes. What's up with that? 11/11/98

    Answer from George J. Laurer:

    Yes, they do RESEMBLE the code for a six. An even parity 6 is:
    1 module wide black bar
    1 module wide white space
    1 module wide black bar
    4 module wide white space

    "There is nothing sinister about this nor does it have anything to do with the Bible's "mark of the beast" (The New Testament, The Revelation, Chapter 13, paragraph 18). It is simply a coincidence like the fact that my first, middle, and last name all have 6 letters [George Joseph Laurer]. There is no connection with an international money code either". George J. Laurer


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Yes, they do RESEMBLE the code for a six. An even parity 6 is:
    1 module wide black bar
    1 module wide white space
    1 module wide black bar
    4 module wide white space

    Well, there you have it, you've proven it yourself. What you claim is a 6 is only 3 modules. A 6 needs 7 modules. Since your version of the 6 doesn't have 7 modules, it is not a valid number, and certainly is not a 6.

    And by the way he said "resemble", he didn't say it was (and he'd know).


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    I have yet to see you produce a proper schematic diagram proving the hidden theory wrong.

    You've been given a link to a site which supplies the encoding definition. That definition is better than any "schematic diagram" as it tells you how to read and write bar-codes.
    I have done my part and produced the diagrams.
    You've produced one sample of a barcode, insisting that part of what constitutes a 6 as long as its to the right of the mid-guard, is similar in appeareance to the three guards.

    The definition of the encoding says you're wrong. The page I supplied links to includes the number 6 encoded to the left of the mid-guard, which looks nothing like one of the guards also saying you're wrong.

    He admits himself that that the protruding codes resembles a six.
    No-one has denied that they resemble a six. What has been said is that they are not representations of the number six, according to the encoding used.
    Yes, they do RESEMBLE the code for a six. An even parity 6 is:
    1 module wide black bar
    1 module wide white space
    1 module wide black bar
    4 module wide white space
    There is no 4-module wide white-space after the left- or mid-guard. Thus, while they may optically resemble a six, they are not an encoding of the number six.

    I dunno...why is it that conspiracy fans seem to have such consistent problems understanding the usage of words such as "like" and "resemble" ?
    "There is nothing sinister about this nor does it have anything to do with the Bible's "mark of the beast" (The New Testament, The Revelation, Chapter 13, paragraph 18). It is simply a coincidence like the fact that my first, middle, and last name all have 6 letters [George Joseph Laurer]. There is no connection with an international money code either". George J. Laurer
    No connection. As told to you by a source that you've chosen to provide.

    You yourself have insisted in an earlier post that you don't believe the barcode is the Mark of the Beast.

    So where is the problem here? Why do you keep insisting that there is something "Mark of the Beast-ish" about something when you accept that it is not the Mark of the Beast, and which your sources say is not connected to teh Mark of the beast.

    I mean...seriously...are you going to try and argue that an electronic, binary representation of a barcode is somehow the mark of the beast, because the non-electronic encoding, when mis-translated, looks like it?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    bonkey wrote: »
    You yourself have insisted in an earlier post that you don't believe the barcode is the Mark of the Beast.
    Whether you believe that this code dose not contain 666 is not going to change my mind and that of others over the matter.

    Yes I don't believe that the barcode is the "Mark of the beast" at all. However I do believe that it has triggered alarm bells to be vigilant of what will be next I.E. the RFID system of identification and microchip implants combined with biometric technology which is quite capable of fulfilling what is spoken of in the book of revelations.

    When the day comes when I have to choose whether to take a verichip implant as a form of identity, I will keep in mind the warnings both physical and spiritual of what is written in the book of revelations. You can go ahead and take it.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,780 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Whether you believe that this code dose not contain 666 or not is not going to change my mind or millions of other minds around the world.
    Belief doesn't come into it. The guard bars don't read 666. End of discussion. This is one of those happy situations where we're not talking about balance of probability, Occam's Razor or anything else. Anyone who says every UPC barcode contains the digits 666 is just plain wrong.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,780 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    When the day comes when I have to choose whether to take a verichip implant as a form of identity, I will keep in mind the warnings both physical and spiritual of what is written in the book of revelations.
    Almost missed this.

    If the day comes when I have to choose whether to have an RFID chip implanted, I'll choose not to.

    Problem solved.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Whether you believe that this code dose not contain 666 is not going to change my mind and that of others over the matter.

    I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm showing that you are wrong and that your argument is illogical.

    You can stay being wrong and illogical as long as you like.
    Yes I don't believe that the barcode is the "Mark of the beast" at all.
    Good.
    However I do believe that it has triggered alarm bells to be vigilant of what will be next I.E. the RFID system of identification and microchip implants combined with biometric technology which is quite capable of fulfilling what is spoken of in the book of revelations.
    But RFID systems don't use optical coding. The use binary coding where, even if you have the same 'guards' built into the encoding, you will have nothing which resembles six-six-six at all. Thin-Thick-Thin (or 101) when converted from binary is five, so the guards (if they remain and are unchanged) could arguably be converted to five-five-five....but never to six-six-six.

    So here's where we need to go back to scripture and see whether it says the forerunner to the Mark of the Beast will have six-six-six as its sign...which I believe you'll find it doesn't.

    So despite your paying close enough attention to know that the original texts say "in the hand" and not "on the hand", you seemed to have missed entirely the bit where the relationship between the number 666 and the Mark of the Besast is defined. Its not the Number of the Father of the Beast.
    When the day comes when I have to choose whether to take a verichip implant as a form of identity,
    At least you're finally realising that should that day arrive, you will have a choice...and abandoning this notion that its all about removing such choices from us.
    You can go ahead ant take it.
    Where have I once suggested that I think such a thing is a good idea? I've never once suggested anything except that people should have choice. I'll thank you to do me the same courtesy and neither tell me what I will do, nor assume to know what that is when I haven't ever expressed an opinion on whether I would want such a thing or not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭DisandDat


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Almost missed this.

    If the day comes when I have to choose whether to have an RFID chip implanted, I'll choose not to.

    Problem solved.

    You might not have a choice.

    Problem appears again.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    But then again you might. It's all assumptions. Sure RFID chips might become obsolete any day now if a new replacement technology were to appear.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,780 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    DisandDat wrote: »
    You might not have a choice.

    Problem appears again.
    You're envisaging a future society where everybody will be forced to undergo invasive surgery for tracking purposes.

    Outside of tinfoil-hat paranoid fantasy land, that's not likely to happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    humanji wrote: »
    But then again you might. It's all assumptions. Sure RFID chips might become obsolete any day now if a new replacement technology were to appear.
    Such as Hitachi's powder chip that has a 128-bit ROM that can store a unique 38-digit ID number. This chip is currently being incorporated into all Euro banknotes above the value of e20. hitachi_rfid1.jpg


    http://counterfeitdetector.blogspot.com/2007/07/rfid-tagged-euro-banknotes-now-in.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    That's still an RFID chip.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭DisandDat


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    You're envisaging a future society where everybody will be forced to undergo invasive surgery for tracking purposes.

    Outside of tinfoil-hat paranoid fantasy land, that's not likely to happen.

    No I'm not.

    You will not be forced, however the alternatives will be so obstructive that most people will take this option. It is not just for tracking purposes, it will be used for banking, medical records, biometrics. Basically all your life history.

    And heres another thing, has anyone noticed the number of "cell" masts which have been erected around the major cities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Yes, because the people who own the land get a f*ck load of money for letting a mast be put on it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭DisandDat


    humanji wrote: »
    Yes, because the people who own the land get a f*ck load of money for letting a mast be put on it.

    Yes, but why are they needed? To track rfid, thats why.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    humanji wrote: »
    That's still an RFID chip.
    Next generation though.

    Its predecessor the "Verichip" which is a dinosaur in comparison and looks like a valve from an old wireless!

    Verichip.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    DisandDat wrote: »
    Yes, but why are they needed? To track rfid, thats why.

    or maybe, just maybe, they're for mobile phones.
    Next generation though.

    Yeah, but I'm saying that you're basing everything on the RFID chips being inserted into the head. You don't know what way technology is going and RFID chips can become useless the moment an alternative comes along.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    humanji wrote: »
    You don't know what way technology is going and RFID chips can become useless the moment an alternative comes along.
    The only possible advancement I could forsee is a scaled down version of the GPS tracking device used for monitoring known paedophiles. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/sep/21/childprotection.ukcrime


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46 STEVO B


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Almost missed this.

    If the day comes when I have to choose whether to have an RFID chip implanted, I'll choose not to.

    Problem solved.

    I went to the banklink today to withdraw el casho. They said they had cancelled my card. Turns out the new debit card they sent out in the post a few months back, but which i havent been using (I stuck to the old standard card with no chip) is now the only card I can use to withdraw. Bear in mind i didnt ask for a debit card either.

    Thats how the systems works, you got no choice if you want to play their game.

    When the days comes when you are not allowed into Dunnes to buy food because you havent got an RFID chip implanted in the arm, what you gonna do?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭DisandDat


    STEVO B wrote: »
    I went to the banklink today to withdraw el casho. They said they had cancelled my card. Turns out the new debit card they sent out in the post a few months back, but which i havent been using (I stuck to the old standard card with no chip) is now the only card I can use to withdraw. Bear in mind i didnt ask for a debit card either.

    That is madness.
    STEVO B wrote: »

    When the days comes when you are not allowed into Dunnes to buy food because you havent got an RFID chip implanted in the arm, what you gonna do?

    True, people have to stand up now, not later.

    That is madness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Lads not to interrupt this little paranoid back and forth but I can tell you there is no way I and most others would ever go along with having chips implanted so that would be the end of that. Politicians need to get elected and there's no way they'd chance this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    STEVO B wrote: »
    I went to the banklink today to withdraw el casho. They said they had cancelled my card. Turns out the new debit card they sent out in the post a few months back, but which i havent been using (I stuck to the old standard card with no chip) is now the only card I can use to withdraw. Bear in mind i didnt ask for a debit card either.

    So did you contact the bank and tell them you didn't want this new card? or did you just ignore it? Did you go to a different bank which didn't automatically send out these cards?

    I don't have a debit card nor do I want one and I wouldn't accept one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    meglome wrote: »
    Lads not to interrupt this little paranoid back and forth but I can tell you there is no way I and most others would ever go along with having chips implanted so that would be the end of that. Politicians need to get elected and there's no way they'd chance this.
    What elected politicians? Ireland is only a puppet country. We have absolutly no controll over Euro finance and international security. What politician stud up when the RFID biometric passports were forced on our country since October 2006? NO ONE! we just sat back and accepted it and thought it was great because it illiminated the necessity of applying for a US visa!!!

    Likewise you will soon not be permitted to board a boat or plane to the UK or travel in mainland europe without a RFID id card along with manditory thumb printing. We will be told that these cards are all for our benefit ie to "combat illegal immrgration" and "fighting terrorism".

    In the US you will soon not be able to board an internal flight, drive a car or enter a federal building without the REAL ID card. So whose voting who into Government. Whose making up these rules. The very same powers that are forcing us to accept Biometric passports and RFID cards will be the same powers that will eventually force us to take their implantible chip in the "interests of global security" and "fighting terrorism".


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    What elected politicians? Ireland is only a puppet country. We have absolutly no controll over Euro finance and international security. What politician stud up when the RFID biometric passports were forced on our country since October 2006? NO ONE! we just sat back and accepted it and thought it was great because it illiminated the necessity of applying for a US visa!!!

    Likewise you will soon not be permitted to board a boat or plane to the UK or travel in mainland europe without a RFID id card along with manditory thumb printing. We will be told that these cards are all for our benefit ie to "combat illegal immrgration" and "fighting terrorism".

    In the US you will soon not be able to board an internal flight, drive a car or enter a federal building without the REAL ID card. So whose voting who into Government. Whose making up these rules. The very same powers that are forcing us to accept Biometric passports and RFID cards will be the same powers that will eventually force us to take their implantible chip in the "interests of global security" and "fighting terrorism".

    You hit the nail right on the head there. Subtle changes.

    Did the government of Ireland care when the people rejected the Nice Treaty? No, they forced another referendum to attempt to get the result they needed (and now they rejig things to push the EU constitution - I GUARANTEE this constitution will go through in the future). The people didn't know what they were voting for, they were mistaken... thanks Bertie.

    Did the Bush administration care about the people when they used underhand tactics to steal the first presedential election from Gore?

    Did Blair care when tens of thousands marched in protest against the illegal Iraq war which was pushed through on lies about WMDs (when everyone with any semblance of individual thought can see it was about resources)? Hell, Bush didn't even bother to go to congress to declare the war.

    They'll do what they want. I think the plebs have already lost.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭Cantab.


    Such as Hitachi's powder chip that has a 128-bit ROM that can store a unique 38-digit ID number. This chip is currently being incorporated into all Euro banknotes above the value of e20. hitachi_rfid1.jpg


    http://counterfeitdetector.blogspot.com/2007/07/rfid-tagged-euro-banknotes-now-in.html

    An incremental step in the direction of abolishing cash completely.

    I'm sure if you bombarded those notes with enough electromagnetic energy at the right frequency, the contents of the RFID chip would be wiped instantly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Cantab. wrote: »
    An incremental step in the direction of abolishing cash completely.

    I'm sure if you bombarded those notes with enough electromagnetic energy at the right frequency, the contents of the RFID chip would be wiped instantly.
    Someone suggested nuking chipped banknotes in the microwave. The only problem is that newer RFID compatible ATMs and self service checkouts may not accept tamered banknotes and shops will have counterfeit detectors so you could be stuck with these notes :eek:

    The frightening thing about RFID chipped banknotes is that a would be pickpocket could read the contence of a handbag or your pocket with a scanner before he dips his hand in. May sound far fetched but 10 years ago people would have thought the same about skimming atm machines. RFID frequency blocking wallets are already on the market. http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20061129/rfid-blocking-wallet/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭DisandDat


    Kernel wrote: »
    You hit the nail right on the head there. Subtle changes.

    They'll do what they want. I think the plebs have already lost.
    And the sad thing is, the plebs have no idea whats going on. They live on planet Good guy, where technology is only for their benefit. Its time they turned the TV off and educated themselves.

    The only problem is that newer RFID compatible ATMs and self service checkouts may not accept tamered banknotes and shops will have counterfeit detectors so you could be stuck with these notes :eek:

    Great point. The net is tightening. All loopholes are being closed.

    As for not accepting the chip, heres how the situation will work:

    Fraud will be rampant (carousel fraud?) around the time of the finalisation of a cashless society. All large denomination notes will be taken out of circulation. We will have big drama on the news everyday, what can be done etc. We will have family's on TV who have taken the chip proclaiming the benefits. Then all as the people start to take the chip, all public buildings, hospitals will only accept chip holders. (see US where only real ID holders will only be allowed access). Then commercial enterprises will introduce these measures on a voluntary basis. When the acceptance rate is around 60%, they will proclaim the costs of cash/debit card and start adding vastly to the costs of goods sold to people without a chip.(see M50 toll bridge, €2 with rfid pass, €3 without). Then you will not be able to accept wages, pay bills, shop, travel without the chip.

    I have left out a major trigger event to kick this off, such as a planned 9/11 kicked off a war on terror, which lead to massive unneeded security measures, biometrics, dna testing and general paranoia.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    The irony of such paranoid people posting on an internet website where you can easily be tracked is simply incredible.

    "We're through the looking glass here people!" as Milhouse would say.

    Do any of you actually stop and think about what you're saying, or do you just assume everything in the world has been designed specifically against you? The RFid chips in banknotes are to try and stop counterfitting (a major problem), but of course, this can only really be a way of "Them" tracking us. Do you honestly think you're that important? If you were, your house would already be bugged and your ever movement would already be tracked through more reliable means. Hell, if you were actually onto something here, then "They" would have made you disappear long ago.

    The only actual logical point made about the RFID chips in notes is thieves being able to find out who is worth going after. But it's easy enough to block the signals, and in time, it'll only get easier, so you've nothing to fear other than random crime.

    It's alright to have a little skepticism about things, but Christ, we had Casey saying he wouldn't go to a doctor because he didn't trust science. Do you all want to end up like that? I used to work in a psychiatric hospital before where there really were people who insisted on wearing tinfoil hats. It sounds funny, but when you meet these people it's horrifying to realise they let their paranoia get the better of them. By all means, question the world around you, but don't go down the route of assume everyone is against you. Seriously, it leads nowhere.


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