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Fracking in Lough Allen

  • 29-06-2011 10:05pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭


    This is pretty unbelievable but I was watching CSI tonight (the episode was still on until a few minutes ago but I'm so shocked at what I've found that I turned down the volume to concentrate on this).

    The episode was about fracking out in Nevada. In the story dead bodies start turning up and it seems that the people were being killed because they were trying to expose pollution caused by fracking which is a method for extracting natural gas from shale beds deep underground.

    I googled fracking and basically what it involves is as follows; they drill down into the earth. Next they line the borehole with concrete. Then they detonate explosives to crack the shale beds. Then they pump down a mixture of chemicals, water and sand at high pressure. After the water and chemicals seep away the sand keeps the cracks in the shale open so that the gas can be extracted.

    There is an obvious issue concerning where all the chemicals go.

    In the story people were dying of cancer and other illnesses. The tap water was so contaminated that when one of the CSI's put a lighter to it, it went on fire. I was putting this down to the overactive imagination of the writers of CSI until I stumbled on the following. If you live in the North west especially Leitrim or Sligo, you should definitely listen to this;

    http://tnsradio.ning.com/video/fracking-for-gas-in-lough

    (when you get to the end of the first segment, if you wait, part II appears)

    The programme (Drivetime with Mary Wilson) which was aired on Radio 1 a few weeks ago confirms the health risks, the environmental efffects and even the fact that tap water in areas of the States wherre this has been done, has become flammable.

    I can't believe that the Numpty's in Leinster House issued licences to company's to carry this out. Are they looking for another Bellanaboy?

    What are other people's views on this?


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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭tuppence


    Chipboard wrote: »
    This is pretty unbelievable but I was watching CSI tonight (the episode was still on until a few minutes ago but I'm so shocked at what I've found that I turned down the volume to concentrate on this).

    The episode was about fracking out in Nevada. In the story dead bodies start turning up and it seems that the people were being killed because they were trying to expose pollution caused by fracking which is a method for extracting natural gas from shale beds deep underground.

    I googled fracking and basically what it involves is as follows; they drill down into the earth. Next they line the borehole with concrete. Then they detonate explosives to crack the shale beds. Then they pump down a mixture of chemicals, water and sand at high pressure. After the water and chemicals seep away the sand keeps the cracks in the shale open so that the gas can be extracted.

    There is an obvious issue concerning where all the chemicals go.

    In the story people were dying of cancer and other illnesses. The tap water was so contaminated that when one of the CSI's put a lighter to it, it went on fire. I was putting this down to the overactive imagination of the writers of CSI until I stumbled on the following. If you live in the North west especially Leitrim or Sligo, you should definitely listen to this;

    http://tnsradio.ning.com/video/fracking-for-gas-in-lough

    (when you get to the end of the first segment, if you wait, part II appears)

    The programme (Drivetime with Mary Wilson) which was aired on Radio 1 a few weeks ago confirms the health risks, the environmental efffects and even the fact that tap water in areas of the States wherre this has been done, has become flammable.

    I can't believe that the Numpty's in Leinster House issued licences to company's to carry this out. Are they looking for another Bellanaboy?

    What are other people's views on this?


    And when people are finished listening to the Drive time documentary the Gasland film is on line to watch on this new website which also has a facebook page for further information.
    http://what-the-frack.org/gas-land-the-movie/

    Btw this is an issue for Donegal as well as, Sligo, and Leitrim, etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 revontulet


    this is really horrible. can't believe anyone in ireland is going to let this happen. has the fracking started already?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭Chipboard


    revontulet wrote: »
    this is really horrible. can't believe anyone in ireland is going to let this happen. has the fracking started already?

    No, the licences they have limit them to drilling 200 ft for research purposes but I hear they have started doing that.

    I spoke to a Fine Gael TD on Saturday about it. I was seeking his support for the anti side. He wasn't supportive. The greed has started already. If thisnt stopped now they will be at it until the whole region is destroyed.

    We wanted to buy a house and settle up here but we re not even looking at houses in Leitrim now - you couldn't consider it until you know which way this is going to go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭ajjmk


    Saw a poster about this in Subway today..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 revontulet


    Chipboard wrote: »
    No, the licences they have limit them to drilling 200 ft for research purposes but I hear they have started doing that.

    :mad:

    How can one find out where they are drilling for research? how dangerous/polluting are these 200ft test drillings?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭Chipboard


    I doubt if the test drilling will pollute but if they determine that extraction is viable that will be the end of us as they will do anything they can to get their hands on it. If this is going to be stopped it has to be stopped now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭rainyrun


    this is really shocking!!.. surely people will take to the streets over this.. it appears to be even worse then what was happening in mayo with the shell line!!.. i am horrified that this is even being entertained by our politicians...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭toby08


    politicians dont care only when it becomes a scandal will anything happen eg dead bodies


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,762 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    toby08 wrote: »
    will anything happen eg dead bodies
    Can you explain that comment to me please?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭tuppence




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  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭MeerKat17


    This is incredibly shocking, I watched Gasland when it came out but never thought it could possibly come to Ireland, I guess I was wrong. It would cause to our health not to mention the environment. I really hope this does not go ahead, but with the fat cats in this country no doubt it will. Which is more important, our health, the health and well being of future generations and the environment, or making the rich richer?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭toby08


    toby08 wrote: »
    politicians dont care only when it becomes a scandal will anything happen eg dead bodies
    politicians as I said dont care this will be allowed go ahead it is only when an incident such as gas release, fire etc. and someone gets hurt or injured will anyone in authority take notice.It is a dangerous form of exploration we should bear the following in mind
    the accident black spot is never dealt with until a tradgedy occurs, the same with school busses ,nursing homes the list is endless


  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭garth-marenghi


    Did anyone else see the propaganda, sorry i mean well researched non partisan article in the Leitrim Observer yesterday in which Richard Moorman of Tamboran was interviewed?

    It was pretty shocking stuff. Leitrim will be the epicentre of exploration (according to Moorman he likes what he sees there, and the best gas is in Leitrim) with potentially hundreds of wells been built with no reference to how this will impact on the visual beauty of the county, pollution, huge volumes of traffic etc. He also doesnt anticipate any problems with the EPA and getting a license will be "straightforward". I hope it is anything but straightforward. These should be some of the most stringent environmental checks carried out in the state. His confidence is very disconcerting.

    In refernece to the charges laid against Fracking that it caused environmental and health damage he stated this is due to poor workmanship and malpractice. He must have a poor memory as he (and the Leitrim Observer) neglected to metion that the company for which he previously worked, South-Western Energy is the subject of lawsuits in America for damage caused by Fracking.

    Maybe this is what he is talking about when he states that "we dont want people to hate us, we want to do the right thing from day one".
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/05/24/nb-southwestern-lawsuit-hydro-fracking-551.html


    This article in the Observer was total pr spin and weak journalistic work with Moorman not challenged to any great extent on his assertions. Or maybe we were supposed to be reassured about our concerns when Moorman assured the readers that they will be using "fancy equipment" in the process.:eek:


    http://www.leitrimobserver.ie:80/news/hundreds_of_gas_wells_to_be_constructed_on_lough_allen_basin_1_2838663


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭toby08


    followed your threads and what the whole fracking scenario seems to be a fiasco.The theory is well presented and gives a very safe impression but everywhere these operations have taken place there seems to have been issues.I think our local councils and government have in these instances to err on the side of caution.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭tuppence


    Good and brief documentary. Good one to share to friends on Facebook as gives a good introduction.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEB_Wwe-uBM


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,719 ✭✭✭DB10


    I've been told this fracking is banned in France and parts of the UK because of the serious health dangers involved.

    If this goes ahead its a ****ing disgrace, people are already not considering moving to the area because of it.

    One thing is for sure I will never be voting for these crooks in Government FG and Labour if they implement this, and FF after starting the process. Never have never will, they do not care about this part of the country.....:mad:


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    I've only become aware of the practice of "fracking" in the past few days and it is a truly horrendous way of extracting natural gas from shale layers. Some companies are pumping all types of highly toxic chemicals - like compounds of benzene, sulfuric acid and mercury compounds into the rock and much of the contaminated water seeps into aquifers and poisons people's drinking water.

    The plans for the Lough Allen basin have to be nipped in the bud and very soon. The stakes are very high and involve not just Lough Allen and its vicinity but the entire River Shannon basin. The proposals for Lough Allen make the Mayo Corrib Gas pipeline controversy seem like nothing in comparison.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭tuppence


    New website there with plenty of information and resources to download. And the petition is there too.

    http://frackingfreeireland.org/


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭tuppence


    Mr Helmut Fehr German German politician and respected authority on fracking in the Mayflower Centre, Drumshanbo,
    Co Leitrim at 3pm on Saturday the 20th August.



    Come along, learn more about it.
    Spread the word. :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭tuppence


    Shale Gas Extraction Information Exhibition

    at 1pm on Wednesday 24th August until 4pm Friday 26th, at Leitrim Sculpture Centre, Manorhamilton.

    This exhibition presents a range of information about the hydraulic fracturing process (fracking) and intends to provide an impartial view of some of the issues surrounding the proposed extraction of shale gas in Ireland.

    The exhibition will include various EU and National reports on fracking, recent films on the effects of fracking, a range of web links, research tools and information, posters and prints.

    What is fracking? See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing

    An artist led project, in association with local discussion groups and LSC.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭tuppence


    Fracking article on Prime Time tonight. Came down to Leitrim Manorhamilton and Drumshanbo on Tuesday. Also talked with the main company. Small studio discussion too.

    Brace yourselves for the company line of wanting to do right by us....They're obv not getting a profit outa it at all. :confused:;):D


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭tuppence


    For those who missed last Thursdays Prime Time from Leitrim almost 15 mins in.

    http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1109605


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭tuppence


    Lough Allen Conservation Society
    is hosting a public information/discussion on the issue of 'Hydraulic Fracturing ('fracking') for shale gas in the Northwest Carboniferous Region*
    Location - The Bush Hotel, Carrick-on-Shannon, Co.Leitrim.
    Date/Time - Thursday, September 1st, 8pm

    This is a public meeting with a short presentation and an open discussion.

    All public representatives and interested groups including IFA, Waterways Ireland, Coillte etc.. have been invited to attend.

    This issue is causing great concern among all sections of local communities.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 580 ✭✭✭IPushButtons


    Theres noting wrong with fracking, provided it's done properly there will be no damage to the environment. I am dubious as to the OP's qualifications on this matter i mean come on people "I seen it on an episode of CSI" "Heres a YouTube documentary"


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Theres noting wrong with fracking, provided it's done properly there will be no damage to the environment. I am dubious as to the OP's qualifications on this matter i mean come on people "I seen it on an episode of CSI" "Heres a YouTube documentary"


    You woudn't be an employee of the gas exploration company, now would you?:rolleyes:

    I have read up a lot of peer reviewed reports on the use of fracking to extract natural gas and they are all, with no exception, highly critical of the fracking process and the chemicals used in fracking.

    The exploration company now claims that there will be no chemicals used at all in the fracking at Lough Allen. This has never been done before and is believed to be impossible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 580 ✭✭✭IPushButtons


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    You woudn't be an employee of the gas exploration company, now would you?:rolleyes:

    Hahahah please you'll drive the conspiracy nuts, well, nuts hahah


  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭garth-marenghi


    Theres noting wrong with fracking, provided it's done properly there will be no damage to the environment. I am dubious as to the OP's qualifications on this matter i mean come on people "I seen it on an episode of CSI" "Heres a YouTube documentary"


    What exactly are your qualifications on the matter that we should believe you that there is "nothing wrong with fracking"? I dont claim to be an expert but am jtrying to educate myself with the best available resources. There is a vast amount of information, governmental reports, european union and academic studies, documentary films etc that all highlight serious concern and raise serious doubts about the process. Check out the Fracking Free Ireland website that has already been mentioned to see a compilation of a lot of this material.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 580 ✭✭✭IPushButtons


    What exactly are your qualifications on the matter that we should believe you that there is "nothing wrong with fracking"?

    Hi Mate, good question i've not worked in the gas business, although i have worked in the mining industry in Australia blasting iron ore. Nothing to do with the gas industry as i've said, but i did work closely with mine engineers, management level health and safety and business improvement experts who have all worked in the gas industry, highly educated and intelligent people. Having asked them about fracking they all say the same thing. That is that, yes there is a possibility of water and soil contamination if the wells are not built to a high standard. However if there are (built to a high standard) there are no risks to the environment.

    Lets think about this logically, a company set up a well and starts the mining process, now if were to believe most of the opinions on this thread, (that fracking is not safe) then the companies in question are acting irresponsibly and are doing so with the consent of the government, what that is a conspiracy you guys are talking about it a conspiracy to pollute the environment in order to secure profits. I don't believe that to be the case, i believe that these will act in a socially responsible and professional manner. If they don't there are unlikely to be given future licenses to exploit gas in the future ( in this county). Im not saying that there won't be im saying that the company does not set out to cause harm to the environment it's in the companies own interest not to pollute the environment so that they may acquire more gas contracts in the future.



    I don't want you to think that im bagging on you guys you've got questions and you think it's dangerous, fine, If this were taking place in my area then i'd want assurances from my local politicians that the process is safe and i would also ask them to ask the company to come to local town meeting and enplane the process to the locals, but as for just seeing some docos on the web that says fracking in bad and then taking that opinion as fact, simply put it's not fact it opinion. Against my better judgement i've found this YT doco about fracking which confirms what i've been told already by the people i have worked with.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW_xJqPjE_I

    Check out the Fracking Free Ireland website that has already been mentioned to see a compilation of a lot of this material.

    As for this website im not going to look at it, the reason for this is the title of the website . The title "Fracking Free Ireland" tells me right of the bat that this website is bias in that they want Ireland to be free of fracking.



    Peace



    IPB


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭tuppence


    Hi Mate, good question i've not worked in the gas business, although i have worked in the mining industry in Australia blasting iron ore. Nothing to do with the gas industry as i've said, but i did work closely with mine engineers, management level health and safety and business improvement experts who have all worked in the gas industry, highly educated and intelligent people. Having asked them about fracking they all say the same thing. That is that, yes there is a possibility of water and soil contamination if the wells are not built to a high standard. However if there are (built to a high standard) there are no risks to the environment.

    Lets think about this logically, a company set up a well and starts the mining process, now if were to believe most of the opinions on this thread, (that fracking is not safe) then the companies in question are acting irresponsibly and are doing so with the consent of the government, what that is a conspiracy you guys are talking about it a conspiracy to pollute the environment in order to secure profits. I don't believe that to be the case, i believe that these will act in a socially responsible and professional manner. If they don't there are unlikely to be given future licenses to exploit gas in the future ( in this county). Im not saying that there won't be im saying that the company does not set out to cause harm to the environment it's in the companies own interest not to pollute the environment so that they may acquire more gas contracts in the future.



    I don't want you to think that im bagging on you guys you've got questions and you think it's dangerous, fine, If this were taking place in my area then i'd want assurances from my local politicians that the process is safe and i would also ask them to ask the company to come to local town meeting and enplane the process to the locals, but as for just seeing some docos on the web that says fracking in bad and then taking that opinion as fact, simply put it's not fact it opinion. Against my better judgement i've found this YT doco about fracking which confirms what i've been told already by the people i have worked with.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW_xJqPjE_I




    As for this website im not going to look at it, the reason for this is the title of the website . The title "Fracking Free Ireland" tells me right of the bat that this website is bias in that they want Ireland to be free of fracking.



    Peace



    IPB

    The process isnt safe because of documented evidence that it is not safe. It is using a technology that is new and hasnt been proven. It is not safe because we dont have the proper national or European laws to monitor it yet. (see below) The shortage of fossill fuels has meant that governments and compaaies are willing to take greater risks to get at the scarcer natural resources. The Americain governement legitimised taking risks and the gas companies continously spin with them and say its to ensure self sufficiency from the 'gulf' mentioned again in that documentary you posted. But this has led to dire consequences as evidenced in America. The Environmental Protection Agency was not monitoring in the states. This has led to people being badly let down in terms of the consequences to their health livlihood and environment. Alot of those documented cases would be from the lawsuits. Too many firms werent acting very responsibly for the common good time and time agin as they denied any wrong doing consistently to the landowners, thus forcing the landowners to go to court to prove it.

    There has been enough ducumented cases for governments to halt and ban this procedure, including France, South Africa, parts of America and Germany. Maybe you should ask them were they dealing with conspiracies or logic?

    If you want to sound like your talking logically you shouldnt be taking the word of the guys in the industry (whatever they might be blasting at the time!) because of their vested interest. Large Private companies who have one eye on their shares lose their social responibilities fairly fast if they need to cut corners. And do you really think it is logical to advise that people seek reassurence from these companies as self samed guardians of our environment? I certainly dont think that is safe. Independent sources are the only way of evaluating this situation. And for example in the recent European Parliaments recent report on the Impacts of Shale gas on oil on the environement and human health says in its conclusions pg 77

    Finally, some risk is inherent to uncontrolled fracturing which results in uncontrolled mobilization of fracture liquids or even of the natural gas itself. For instance, it is well known that small earthquakes can be induced by hydraulic fracturing which might mobilize gas or fluids through “naturally” created fractures. Experience from the USA shows that in practise many accidents happen. Too often,companies are fined from official authorities for violations. These accidents are partly caused by leaky or malfunctioning equipment, partly caused by bad practises in order to save costs and time, partly due to unprofessional casing of the wells and partly due to groundwater contamination through undetected leaks.[/I]h
    http://www.ledevoir.com/documents/pdf/europe_gaz.pdf


    But if we continously talk of the process we are only looking of one of the negatives of this issue. Its the noise, its the land coverage of the hundreds of wells, its the roads and large truck containers to service them its the industrialisation of a rural area. Its about focusing on a proven dirty industry instead of renewables.

    But fundamentally its about the community been included in decesion making and the potential once again for misinformation and money to get in the way of what is a close knit rural area. Shame on our politicians for not being proactive to ensure full and proper negotiation and consulation, with independent experts and research.

    Theres no conspiracy theories here only people who got badly let down before by a bunch of speculators in the past. Many have learnt harsh lessons and want to protect whats precious to them. We have nothing left except the land we stand on and more private specalators and governement want to take this from under us and our children too. :(

    People are trying to get at the truth and researching the information themselves within a context of sleepwalking in the most part by our political representatives. If anything people have learnt is to exercise caution this time and proper vigilance and that surely aint a bad thing, its quite rationale.

    Peace T


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭tuppence


    Peaceful demonstration organised for outside Leitrim CO Co offices tomorrow Monday at 4.30pm. This is to coincide with Tamboran meeting with Leitrim Co Co inside.
    If you want to make a placard, you can download the following (another to follow later)


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