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Doughiska Schools

2

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,593 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Stevolende wrote: »
    Hadn't heard that, but sad to hear they're thinking of cutting into the Merlin Woods. From what I've seen there's little enough of that as there is.
    Was thinking school expansion might be bad for cutting chunks out of them but a bus corridor is bound to be worse.
    Is it supposed to follow the existing path or what? Can't see any other choice. & presumably connect to the road out of Merlin Park Hospital?
    Couldn't they just connect with the road that goes through Merlin Park Hospital from the road near the top of Doughiska Rd?

    My understanding is that the school is planned for land near the end of Tur Uisce that's not woodland anymore, and hasn't been for a while.

    It's quite intersting to look at Google maps in satellite view:

    http://maps.google.com/maps?q=merlin+woods,+galway&hl=en&ll=53.280919,-8.985701&spn=0.018295,0.052357&sll=53.273797,-9.05178&sspn=0.146381,0.418854&hnear=Bluebell+Woods,+Oranmore,+County+Galway,+Ireland&t=h&z=15

    Trying to use a wider version of the existing Merlin Lane wouldn't work, I think - no benefits in doign that rather than the existing road.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    JustMary wrote: »
    Yup, I've heard much the same thing.

    The short notice was due to some deadline from the central government agency that's behind the funding - something to do with the public-private-partnership that's behind it.

    Interestingly, though the bus-corridor has been in the district plan for a while, it's never been widely discussed in the city. Basically it involves cutting a wide road through Merlin Woods (one of very few green amenity areas in the east of the city), and cutting Doughiska in half. This will save buses from Dublin a few minutes only, given that there is a bus-lane on the bit of the Dublin Road that they'll be skipping. And it will involve putting yet another intersection into the already-dangerous are near the Merlin Hospital entry (the bus lane runs a bit to the north of the hospital, but comes out south of the existing exit AFAIK. There are some people think it's not actually a great idea.

    Yep, given that city buses take less than 15 minutes from Doughiska to Eyre Square, including stopping to take on and drop off passengers, there can't be much cost savings to be made by building a whole new road through a public amenity...


  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭Stevolende


    JustMary wrote: »
    My understanding is that the school is planned for land near the end of Tur Uisce that's not woodland anymore, and hasn't been for a while.

    It's quite intersting to look at Google maps in satellite view:

    http://maps.google.com/maps?q=merlin+woods,+galway&hl=en&ll=53.280919,-8.985701&spn=0.018295,0.052357&sll=53.273797,-9.05178&sspn=0.146381,0.418854&hnear=Bluebell+Woods,+Oranmore,+County+Galway,+Ireland&t=h&z=15

    Trying to use a wider version of the existing Merlin Lane wouldn't work, I think - no benefits in doign that rather than the existing road.

    Isn't that map a few years old? Looks like what's now a green park area is still the wasteground it was about 4 years ago.
    From what I understand the school would be going in the fenced off area between Tur Uisce and the park. Had been wondering what was happening with that since building materials had been visible in there the one time I was in Tur Uisce toward the beginning of 2010 and clearly still haven't been used.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Stevolende wrote: »
    Isn't that map a few years old? Looks like what's now a green park area is still the wasteground it was about 4 years ago.
    From what I understand the school would be going in the fenced off area between Tur Uisce and the park. Had been wondering what was happening with that since building materials had been visible in there the one time I was in Tur Uisce toward the beginning of 2010 and clearly still haven't been used.

    Google maps aerial photos are a few years old alright.
    I've marked the site and proposed access road and bus corridor on the attached map...


  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭Stevolende


    Right that makes some sense. The Dublin Motorway thing would pretty much line up with that across the land between the bus stop and that undeveloped area with the Doctor's surgery sign wouldn't it?
    but only on a done deal basis, would hope there would be objection from a number of sides if they tried to do that.
    There's a road they've been building that is on that line too isn't there. Is that just an access road to the projected school site?

    Also noticed very recently that wooden structures that were in the park at that side had disappeared. Don't know how long after they went I noticed.
    That's the semi-circular park on the Tur Uisce side of the fenced off road thing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Plans for both schools can be found here - click on the view related documents button near the top of the page.

    It appears that 3 residents of Tur Uisce and a representative made submissions on this.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Best thing to do with the road is drop it into a trench and cover it. Why should the Túr Uisce people have to look at a gridlock 3 times a day instead of a park when you can simply trench the mammies.

    The Bus Corridor was supposed to go through Túr Uisce when they bought their houses.

    map043.gif

    City Dev plan 2005 onwards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    I asked Biko to release the lock on this thread so I could report some good news I came across for this project, So ladies & gent's lets try keep it country please.

    Thanks Biko


    There was a meeting on Monday between city hall & the some of the area councilors to see what could be done to address the residents concerns over the effect of the school on traffic through the estate.

    A proposed solution came from the meeting:
    An 8m access road will be built parallel to the proposed bus lane on Doughiska Rd, with traffic lights controlling access to the road with the bus lane having priority.

    It's unclear from the article (p6 on this weeks sentinel) if this has actually been put to the residents yet - but it seems as if it's a good compromise.

    It looks like two things need to happen (not necessarily in order):
    the residents agree to this plan and withdraw their objection
    the council vote to rezone the land necessary from open space to allow the road go ahead.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Cheers Anto, and thanks Biko for re-opening the thread.
    That would be an acceptable compromise to most of the residents, I'd be happy with that myself. As long as there's no pedestrian access (back entrance) into the school from within Tur Uisce that would possibly encourage parents to drive into the estate to drop their kids close to the back entrance to the school it would alleviate fears of traffic chaos.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Zzippy wrote: »
    That would be an acceptable compromise to most of the residents, I'd be happy with that myself. As long as there's no pedestrian access (back entrance) into the school from within Tur Uisce that would possibly encourage parents to drive into the estate to drop their kids close to the back entrance to the school it would alleviate fears of traffic chaos.

    Tbh I don't know where the road is supposed to go (not sure where the school or the bus lane are supposed to be sited and the article was a bit vague) but I'd image that it would have to be to a front entrance only.

    It's an interesting question though, as any pedestrian entrance would have to be included in the plans - I haven't read them so I don't know if there are any.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Tbh I don't know where the road is supposed to go (not sure where the school or the bus lane are supposed to be sited and the article was a bit vague) but I'd image that it would have to be to a front entrance only.

    It's an interesting question though, as any pedestrian entrance would have to be included in the plans - I haven't read them so I don't know if there are any.

    Thanks, hadn't seen the plans before. There are actually two pedestrian access points inside Tur Uisce to the school site - that could be a disaster with parents choosing to use the estate rather than any proposed access road to drop kids off. It wouldn't go down too well with residents anyway!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Thanks, hadn't seen the plans before. There are actually two pedestrian access points inside Tur Uisce to the school site - that could be a disaster with parents choosing to use the estate rather than any proposed access road to drop kids off. It wouldn't go down too well with residents anyway!

    Based on the plans (page 197) I created this map on gmaps to indicate where I think the the road will go.

    It'll be interesting to see how the plans might change as the pedestrian entrance onto the park will now probably become the main entrance for traffic.

    It seems that apart from this access, there'll be the proposed main entrance and two entrances off the estate roads. edit: I'd say they should be consolidate to a single entrance between the two schools, but that's just me being picky

    One thing that they'll need to be careful of (and I don't think this will endear me to the residents) is turning the entrances to Tur Uisce, the bus lane & school edit: from the Doughiska Rd into another Liosban/Riverside setup - that's a nightmare for everyone concerned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,593 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Based on the plans (page 197) I created this map on gmaps to indicate where I think the the road will go.

    ...

    One thing that they'll need to be careful of (and I don't think this will endear me to the residents) is turning the entrances to Tur Uisce, the bus lane & school into another Liosban/Riverside setup - that's a nightmare for everyone concerned.

    Good work on the map.

    Can you explain a bit more what you mean about the Liosban/Riverside setup?

    It seems to me that pedestrian access from the estate would be essential: imagine living there, and yet having to walk all the way out and all the way back in to get to school!

    Seems to me that a bit of heavy-handed management at the start could work - eg the school in Knocknacarra has a policy that any person dropped off by car cannot go in a certain gate. It's in the school's interests to enforce this, or they have a bad relationship with the neighbours.

    Also worth noting that the existing temporary school has a policy of seeking enrolments from the area: no reason why lots and lots of kids would not be within walking distance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    JustMary wrote: »
    Good work on the map.

    Can you explain a bit more what you mean about the Liosban/Riverside setup?

    To many junctions in too short a space, combined with inadequate pedestrian facilities (I hate trying to cross the road at Liosban or Riverside) and it being a royal pain in the ass for cyclists.

    I probably should go back and edit the post, I was referring to the entrances onto Doughiska Rd - the school Rd, T.E. and an the estate the other side of the park. That'll probably be fine as long as the other side of the road remains undeveloped, when that happens it'll get messy if the entrances aren't aligned.
    There's nothing worse than trying to navigate roads when you don't know where a car/bike will appear from and I don't want Galway to turn into the Urban maze that parts of Dublin are like.

    They've an opportunity to set out a proper layout of junctions now to facilitate all road users, the current facilities and future developments. I hope they take a look at doing that instead of what they're having to do at the headford rd and change the entrances/exits and layout of the roads in the area of the RAB.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 301 ✭✭surime


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Best thing to do with the road is drop it into a trench and cover it. Why should the Túr Uisce people have to look at a gridlock 3 times a day instead of a park when you can simply trench the mammies.

    The Bus Corridor was supposed to go through Túr Uisce when they bought their houses.

    map043.gif

    City Dev plan 2005 onwards.

    I hope this road is not going to cross Merlin Woods? :eek:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Yes it is going to go through Merlin Park, that was always the plan. It is exclusive to public transport.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 301 ✭✭surime


    snubbleste wrote: »
    Yes it is going to go through Merlin Park, that was always the plan. It is exclusive to public transport.

    Are you serious? Across to Dublin Road??? Is this what you mean? If it is I am absolutely shocked and if somebody is going to protest against it I will join today! They are going to damage the only green place in Galway?
    I just hope this is not true! :mad::(:(:(:mad:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Did I just not say it was true? As I said it will be for public transport only and will be policed from the Council's traffic control centre.
    Since when was the only green area in Galway in Merlin Park?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 301 ✭✭surime


    snubbleste wrote: »
    Did I just not say it was true? As I said it will be for public transport only and will be policed from the Council's traffic control centre.
    Since when was the only green area in Galway in Merlin Park?

    YES, you said, but I just cant belive it. It makes no sense, there is a bus lane on Dublin Rd and where bus stops in traffic is by Bon Secures Hospital.

    I don't know since when Merlin Park is only green area in Galway -since I am here maybe? Don't know any other places, you can tell me the secret if you like.

    (and even if its not in your opinion - it is a great place for people living in Doughiska, to walk with children with, dogs, there is also some wild life (foxes, many birds) -it is just wrong to destroy that!)


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    JustMary wrote: »
    Good work on the map.

    Can you explain a bit more what you mean about the Liosban/Riverside setup?

    It seems to me that pedestrian access from the estate would be essential: imagine living there, and yet having to walk all the way out and all the way back in to get to school!

    Seems to me that a bit of heavy-handed management at the start could work - eg the school in Knocknacarra has a policy that any person dropped off by car cannot go in a certain gate. It's in the school's interests to enforce this, or they have a bad relationship with the neighbours.

    Also worth noting that the existing temporary school has a policy of seeking enrolments from the area: no reason why lots and lots of kids would not be within walking distance.

    That would be fine if such a heavy-handed approach was taken, however I cannot see a school with as few staff as the dept will allow having the resources to police it. Its not a long walk around anyway, students wouldn't have to walk all the way to the main road and back in, there is already access to the park from Tur Uisce about 200m from the main road.

    As for the existing school, the Tur Uisce resident did a traffic survey, and something like 84% of the students at the new school (supposedly from the area) were dropped off by car... the new proposed schools will have a larger catchment area so that number would be expected to be higher.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7 RealRedfraggle


    As a resident will be interested to see exactly what they propose at the entrance. Why they changed the orginal plan (that they deny existed) and changed the location of the schools from where the current school is now is beyond me.
    Ten years I've been hearing about these schools and it is still a mess!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Attached PDF of the new access road as proposed at the GCC meeting on 5th March.
    I've seen the residents submission on this and there are serious questions to be asked of GCC planning department - for instance the floor area of the school increased by 47% between outline permission and full permission stage, and the position and elevation of the post-primary school was also changed significantly from outline planning stage. Lots of questions that should have been asked by planning officials were not asked. They even ignored other sections in the CC that requested information before they could give consent.


  • Posts: 5,121 Bishop Ancient Picnic


    surime wrote: »
    Are you serious? Across to Dublin Road??? Is this what you mean? If it is I am absolutely shocked and if somebody is going to protest against it I will join today! They are going to damage the only green place in Galway?
    I just hope this is not true! :mad::(:(:(:mad:
    It is to provide a bus corridor to the Ardaun area - this is the area where the bulk of residential development will occur in the future - it is the area to the east of the city.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,593 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    It is to provide a bus corridor to the Ardaun area - this is the area where the bulk of residential development will occur in the future - it is the area to the east of the city.

    Allegedly. Do you know anyone who's planning to build out there?

    I've heard from reliable sources that city council officials have said that they are looking at a Park and Ride site somewhere off the N6 on the other side of the dual carriageway from Doughiska Rd. And that they expect all the tourist buses from Dublin to be using the bus-corridor. [Conscious of the no-traffic-threads request ... this info comes from a meeting about the Doughiska schools, and is directly related to why they don't want the school access to use the bus-corridor.]

    Also, re green areas: there are two in the east of the city. Merlin Woods and the far smaller Roscam Woods. Maybe 2.5 if you count Ballyloughane beach / dunes as green.

    The development plan talks about developing recreational areas in Murrough (seems to be a townland or somesuch name for the area betweeen Renmore and Merlin Park), but is vague about details.

    It seems mad to me to destroy one recreational area and build another at the same time. Especially when the one to be destroyed is so close to schools that could use it. (keeping on topic :))


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    JustMary wrote: »
    Allegedly. Do you know anyone who's planning to build out there?

    Arduan, along with Birarhill and Gurraun is one of the areas that mentioned in the 2009-15 county development plan.

    There are area plans available for Ardaun & Briarhill ( was included in the 2003-2009 county plan).

    Afaik there are no concrete plans new developments for any of these areas.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Zzippy wrote: »
    There are serious questions to be asked of GCC planning department - for instance the floor area of the school increased by 47% between outline permission and full permission stage

    I see a road there ZZippy, where exactly are the cars supposed to turn around to come back out of the schools though??


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    It's been reported that the Túr Uisce residents have widthdrawn their objection to the school.

    Clrr Declan McDonnell claims that the residents withdrew the objection last Friday, though ABP have said they haven't received it yet (probably in the post lads).

    This would appear to be good news.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    I see a road there ZZippy, where exactly are the cars supposed to turn around to come back out of the schools though??

    The drawing indicates that the entrance will be moved about 20 yards close to the park, so I'd imagine that cars will have to enter the school grounds and turn there (which appears to have been the case originally).


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Way cleared for two schools as objection is withdrawn

    The two schools can now go ahead under PPP, assumming BAM can find the funding (should be easier than getting a couple few hundred million to build the roads they're contracted to build in Galway & Wicklow).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 22 fissureseal


    Anyone have any idea when the school building will start seeing the planning issues appear to be sorted or will it be like oranmore train station , always due to start in a month or two


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