Etiquette Vs Gamesmanship

Back9bandit · 05-03-2012 7:07pm

under the rules, you are not entitled to ask if both putts should or could be conceeded. You can only offer a gimmie, you cant ask for one

stockdam · 05-03-2012 7:24pm

1. Always expect to have to hole a putt, no matter how short it is. You have to do this in strokeplay and your opponent doesn't have to give you a putt. Never expect it and then if it's not given then it doesn't bother you.

2. Wise up. You can give your opponent their putt (even a 6 foot one) but don't ask for yours to be given. If I was your opponent and you asked me this then I would think you were bricking it or taking the piss. If you were very confident in holing your putt then why give them theirs......2 up is better than one up.

3. Same as number 1. If you feel that a putt is missable then ask for it to be putted. If they ended up 25 feet away then it just shows that not only was it missable but so was the return putt.

Mizuno Man · 05-03-2012 8:06pm

Asking to pick up for a halved hole from 6 feet is pretty silly. You are adding more "complexity" to your own head by thinking through all the possible thoughts that might be going through your opponents mind! In all likelihood, your opponent probably just thought the same thing that I would in that situation: "Ha! Feckin eejit! Good-Good for a half my arse!" (No disrespect intended!!)

Subsequently watching you hole your putt and me miss mine would make me annoyed that I missed my putt and that's it. I wouldn't give a single additional thought to your offer of a half because it was a ridiculous one in the first place. I would see offering a half from 6 feet in a similar light to offering a half from 100 yards back down the fairway. Who knows what could happen? And holing 6 foot putts all day means very little at the business end of a match....

As for gimmes, there are two rules in my book.

1) Never ever expect a gimme. From any range at all. Always expect to have to hole out everything. Apart from anything else, you can never get caught by surprise when your opponent asks to putt when you weren't expecting it - and that usually leads to a poor read, a rushed putt and a missed half!

2) Never give a putt that you think your opponent could conveivably miss. You proved my point here with making your opponent putt from a foot on the last and fair play to you!

I always laugh at people who think that giving a load of generous gimmes early in the match and then suddenly asking the other side to putt on a pressure hole is a good strategy. I would love to play you people! You'll never catch me out because I expect to have to hole everything! And I may well have missed three of the four putts you already gave me ealrier on so I'm already 3 holes better off because of your ridiculous idea of golfing pyshcology! Ha!

rednail · 05-03-2012 9:50pm

redzah for a guy who was moaning about other clubs takin the garden county trophy too seriously i think your actions at the weekend show you up a bit. no one needs to give any putts in matchplay but asking good good from 6 foot when your opponents are down in the match is nothing but silly gamesmanship, it just makes you look like a bit of a muppet. just let the golf do the talking and have a pint with your opponents afterwards, nice to win but more important to be nice.

Raisins · 05-03-2012 10:34pm

I have seen teams give a good few putts that they think their opponents will probably make in any event and then suddenly say nothing over a putt in the hope that they will miss it. Leave aside the fact that this would likely not catch out a seasoned player and that lots of players would take the gimme and then practice the putt.

Do you think this is acceptable or would it lower a players reputation in your eyes?

stockdam · 05-03-2012 11:43pm

Raisins wrote: »

I have seen teams give a good few putts that they think their opponents will probably make in any event and then suddenly say nothing over a putt in the hope that they will miss it.

I think this is verging on pathetic. Let your own game do the talking and if it's not good enough then improve it. If you get beaten by a better player then accept it but don't try silly tactics.

Mr. Larson · 06-03-2012 12:19am

Always felt it could be counter productive to make someone putt a straight one from within 1.5 feet. It's almost like you're making some kind of statement about what type of person you are and once they hole it, it's like you've tried something on and failed. Maybe I'm a soft eejit. I prefer a good natured, friendly tussle on the course, don't like introducing a nasty element to it as it would just make me feel uncomfortable.

matt-dublin · 06-03-2012 12:41am

Matchplay is about some silly tactics and is much more of a mental game than any other format. Some of these tactics may or may not win you a match and as long as youre not breaking the rules there should be no issue here.

at the end of the day you're playing against them, I personally would never give a gimme for a win, i might for a half but only inside 8 inches (esp in druids heath where an 8 in putt can have a 2 inch break!)

Whyner · 06-03-2012 9:32am

Redzah - Is it against the rules to ask for a gimme?

The 6 footer thing was a bit dopey of you and unnecessary. Reverse the roles and what would you think

matt-dublin · 06-03-2012 10:10am

I don't think its against the rules but potentially could be seen as conceeding the hole

Redzah · 06-03-2012 11:05am

Whyner wrote: »

Redzah - Is it against the rules to ask for a gimme?

The 6 footer thing was a bit dopey of you and unnecessary. Reverse the roles and what would you think

A couple have asked this now, as far i'm aware i didn't think it is illegal but would definately love somebody who says it is to show me where in the rules it says this as i am not 100% sure its not illegal?

If i reversed the role i'd laugh at my opponent but if he subsequently holed his, that extra element would be in my head of 'i wouldn't have to putt this if i had agreed'. This causes an element of doubt in your head no matter how strong minded u are.

GreeBo · 06-03-2012 2:53pm

Redzah wrote: »

If i reversed the role i'd laugh at my opponent but if he subsequently holed his, that extra element would be in my head of 'i wouldn't have to putt this if i had agreed'. This causes an element of doubt in your head no matter how strong minded u are.

Id have more of a doubt in my head if I was down and gave up the chance of winning a hole.
A half when you are down and on the back nine isnt much use.

Whyner · 06-03-2012 3:00pm

Redzah wrote: »

If i reversed the role i'd laugh at my opponent

Really?

Redzah wrote: »

if he subsequently holed his, that extra element would be in my head of 'i wouldn't have to putt this if i had agreed'. This causes an element of doubt in your head no matter how strong minded u are.

No it doesn't

Russman · 06-03-2012 3:09pm

I agree (with Greebo), there's too much emphasis on this whole "doubt" thing IMO.

Redzah · 06-03-2012 3:55pm

Whyner wrote: »

Really?

No it doesn't

Sorry I forgot you guys are never mentally phased and have nerves of steel. I must add that to the growing list of boards members talents which include hitting the ball 300+ yards on a regular basis

.

I struggle to comprehend how some of you guys are not;

a. On the European or US Tour
b. A mind coach making big bucks
c. A category 1 golfer
d. A category 2 golfer
e. All of the above (i know not possible but u get my point)

The more u can put thoughts in a competitors head, even if he is thinking 'this guy is a plonker', the less he is able concentrate on his game

matt-dublin · 06-03-2012 4:02pm

I think the asking for a 6foot putt is a bit silly, but if someone asked me to give them one my response would be:

"Ah gowan ourra that, stick her in there boss!"

Russman · 06-03-2012 4:08pm

Redzah, people are only giving their opinions.

Some people don't massively buy into the mind games thing with regard to matchplay. Personally I don't really think it matters too much myself, relative to the shots themselves. I've played enough matches over the years (at most levels) to know I'd rather hole a putt than try to get doubt into the other guys head. What if he couldn't care less what I do ? What if I couldn't care less what he does ? Maybe I'm a bit simple but I'd only be confusing myself trying to keep up with the thoughts I'm trying to put in my opponents head.

dines08 · 06-03-2012 4:37pm

Asking good good from 6 feet because you wanted to throw off your opponents thought process is pointless if you yourself miss the 6 footer you were so confident of making.

Don't see the benefit of it really, think that is most players view. Unnecessary

irish bloke · 06-03-2012 5:08pm

Redzah wrote: »

A couple have asked this now, as far i'm aware i didn't think it is illegal but would definately love somebody who says it is to show me where in the rules it says this as i am not 100% sure its not illegal?

Would you go back and conceed the match if it was???;)

Whyner · 06-03-2012 5:34pm

Redzah wrote: »

Sorry I forgot you guys are never mentally phased and have nerves of steel. I must add that to the growing list of boards members talents which include hitting the ball 300+ yards on a regular basis .

I struggle to comprehend how some of you guys are not;

a. On the European or US Tour
b. A mind coach making big bucks
c. A category 1 golfer
d. A category 2 golfer
e. All of the above (i know not possible but u get my point)

The more u can put thoughts in a competitors head, even if he is thinking 'this guy is a plonker', the less he is able concentrate on his game

What are you rambling on about now?

People have a different mind set depending on the situation. Mine differs to you here and you ramble on about the 300 yard drive

BigChap1759 · 06-03-2012 5:52pm

Redzah wrote: »

Sorry I forgot you guys are never mentally phased and have nerves of steel. I must add that to the growing list of boards members talents which include hitting the ball 300+ yards on a regular basis .

I struggle to comprehend how some of you guys are not;

a. On the European or US Tour
b. A mind coach making big bucks
c. A category 1 golfer
d. A category 2 golfer
e. All of the above (i know not possible but u get my point)

The more u can put thoughts in a competitors head, even if he is thinking 'this guy is a plonker', the less he is able concentrate on his game

In fairness now why did you ask the question if you weren't prepared to listen to the answer?

Mizuno Man · 06-03-2012 6:13pm

To the OP: You'll just have to accept that many golfers such as yourself will run the risk of psyching yourself out of a match. You seem to be expending lots of mental energy trying to think of ways to get into your opponents head when in all likelihood your opponent will probably be oblivious to what you are trying to do. I certainly know that I would be.

I have seen lots of strange efforts at 'gamesmanship' over the years and not one thing has affected how I played a match. The only thing that has gotten to me has been quality golf. Brilliant putting in particular. But gimme this and good-good that will just not work on most players.

Personally I think you're making the easy mistake of assuming that what affects you in a match must affect everyone else too.

On an aside, it could not possibly be against the rules to ask for a gimme. In every pro matchplay event you'll see it all the time when a guy looks to the other guy and asks if the one after his lag putt is good. Also, offering a half when you both have 3 footers is actually saying "I'll give you your putt if you give me mine." Again that's something you'll see pretty frequently...

FixdePitchmark · 06-03-2012 6:30pm

Redzah wrote: »

Sorry I forgot you guys are never mentally phased and have nerves of steel. I must add that to the growing list of boards members talents which include hitting the ball 300+ yards on a regular basis .

I struggle to comprehend how some of you guys are not;

a. On the European or US Tour
b. A mind coach making big bucks
c. A category 1 golfer
d. A category 2 golfer
e. All of the above (i know not possible but u get my point)

The more u can put thoughts in a competitors head, even if he is thinking 'this guy is a plonker', the less he is able concentrate on his game

Redzah.

I'd say there are lads on here who work in or are in the above options. I know a is a stretch, but i bet a few who tried are here.

And a few who can hit it 300 yrds.

stockdam · 06-03-2012 7:23pm

Redzah wrote: »

Sorry I forgot you guys are never mentally phased and have nerves of steel. I must add that to the growing list of boards members talents which include hitting the ball 300+ yards on a regular basis .

I struggle to comprehend how some of you guys are not;

a. On the European or US Tour
b. A mind coach making big bucks
c. A category 1 golfer
d. A category 2 golfer
e. All of the above (i know not possible but u get my point)

The more u can put thoughts in a competitors head, even if he is thinking 'this guy is a plonker', the less he is able concentrate on his game

Well I was one of the above but no I don't hit the ball 300+ yards. I played a lot of matchplay and never worried about games within games. I tried to hole every putt and chip and always assumed that my opponent might hole his. I never assumed that I would get a gimme - if it was missable then why should my opponent give it to me; if it was an easy putt then I didn't mind holing it. Suggesting "good-good" from 6 feet would just make me laugh.

Redzah · 06-03-2012 8:11pm

BigChap1759 wrote: »

In fairness now why did you ask the question if you weren't prepared to listen to the answer?

Ah in fairness big chap i've taken most of the posters views in and will consider going forward so i've got a lot out of the thread, there's just a few on this forum that dislike me and don't offer much in the way of a contribution (whyner being an example above, closely followed by the house mod).

Cheers to the majority for your input, good-good seems to be a no-go for the majority and the mental mindgames also don't sit well with the majority. I'll consider these points made in future.

FixdePitchmark · 06-03-2012 9:52pm

Redzah wrote: »

Ah in fairness big chap i've taken most of the posters views in and will consider going forward so i've got a lot out of the thread, there's just a few on this forum that dislike me and don't offer much in the way of a contribution (whyner being an example above, closely followed by the house mod).

Cheers to the majority for your input, good-good seems to be a no-go for the majority and the mental mindgames also don't sit well with the majority. I'll consider these points made in future.

I Love you Redzah :P

Your off mad low **** ( 2 or 3) ?. Anybody at that hcap can say what they like.

matt-dublin · 06-03-2012 9:54pm

**puts out candlelit dinner service for Redzah and FixedPitchMark

Redzah · 06-03-2012 10:10pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I Love you Redzah :P

Your off mad low **** ( 2 or 3) ?. Anybody at that hcap can say what they like.

cheers pitchmark. Just enjoy the banter and some meaningful debates.

PhilipMarlowe · 06-03-2012 11:50pm

Also bear in mind that despite your mental strength and confidence of holing the 6 footer, you missed it. It could be argued that you distracted yourself with you (possible) mind games or that your opponents psyched you out by blanking your request

I'd be more inclined to base the miss on probabilities myself...

Regarding all the mental animals on here, the game is hard enough without admitting that you are vulnerable. Don't expect many confessions.

GreeBo · 07-03-2012 12:42am

Redzah wrote: »

Sorry I forgot you guys are never mentally phased and have nerves of steel.

The more u can put thoughts in a competitors head, even if he is thinking 'this guy is a plonker', the less he is able concentrate on his game

Im afraid you've totally lost me now.

On one hand you say you do this to get inside someones head, then on the same thread you say you would laugh at someone who did it to you and then you go on to have an issue with someone saying that they wouldnt be phased by it. Do you have some multiple personality disorder or something?

So which is it? Or are we just meant to believe that you are the only one with this steel trap of a mind and the rest of the golfing world should tremble at the mere mention of your name? Coz, erm well...no.

Personally if someone said good-good to me on a 6 foot putt I'd take it as you conceding my putt and then watch you attempt to putt out.

Offering good-good to me says you are not confident in your putt and it would give me more confidence not less. This childish attempt at trying to get inside my head would also leave me thinking that you are a bit of an idiot to be honest and I would waste no more time thinking about you and go back to playing golf.:cool:

Etiquette Vs Gamesmanship

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