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iPad 3 or laptop for engineering?( Mod Post: #68 *READ*)

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 THEMRMONGOOSE


    Thanks for the replies,much appreciated! Good to know I don't have to buy a ridiculously expensive and potentially useless laptop, I'll save a ton!:)
    By any chance has anyone done the biomedical/other engineering course?
    I want to know what I'm in for:p


  • Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭aperture_nuig


    Thanks for the replies,much appreciated! Good to know I don't have to buy a ridiculously expensive and potentially useless laptop, I'll save a ton!:)
    By any chance has anyone done the biomedical/other engineering course?
    I want to know what I'm in for:p

    I'm in final year electronic & computer engineering, and what most of the guys in here have said already is true. Civil , Bio and mech engineering all require the use of some intense modelling software that will mangle anything that isn't up to scratch in terms of performance. On the other hand, the new Eng building has some very, very good lenovo desktops available for anyone to use and they run windows, so you can use them for assignments in CAD etc(most people do). Funnily enough, you'll get by in computer engineering with anything good enough to run a pdf viewer for notes!

    From a course/department opinion perspective, there have been a few threads asking for help with engineering courses, have a search on this forum and you'll find them.

    E&C Eng in my opinion is a great course, I really enjoyed it. Lecturers were very good, subjects were interesting etc. One thing that applies across the board: Engineering is hard. I'm coming fairly close to the top of my class and honestly, it is very difficult. There are long hours, some pointless modules, assignments, projects, tests labs.....
    You will sit maths, maths physics, chemistry & science as part of any 1st year course, after that it depends on what you're doing. I actually started off with undenominated eng in 1st year, and I can't recommend it enough.

    If you have any more questions on my course or another one( I have mates in most of the other courses), reply here or drop me a PM.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 709 ✭✭✭tracker-man


    I cannot believe how unbelievably unhelpful people on this thread have been.

    To the OP:

    I recommend you get the iPad. It can be used with a stylus. There will be no problem taking notes on it, no matter what funny symbols or diagrams you need to write. Get the app "Ghostwriter". Its not free but well worth the few euro it costs.

    Do not buy a laptop before getting into college, and whatever you do, do not buy the Lenovo laptop that the Engineering and IT faculty have been promoting the last few years. Its rubbish for the price. If after a few weeks you think you need to buy a laptop, off you go.

    All the software you could need for your engineering degree is installed on the computers in the Engineering Building.

    The ghostwriter app is the bees knees.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    I cannot believe how unbelievably unhelpful people on this thread have been.
    How have people been unhelpful? Is it only helpful if we suggest that he buys an iPad?
    I recommend you get the iPad. It can be used with a stylus. There will be no problem taking notes on it, no matter what funny symbols or diagrams you need to write. Get the app "Ghostwriter". Its not free but well worth the few euro it costs.
    I tried that idea out for a few lectures this year. It's completely impractical. Anything you write will be huge and messy, it's inefficient and there's no way of drawing things like graphs without it all looking like one big terrible mess.

    If someone is dead set on handwriting their notes, they may as well stick to pen and paper. The only tablet PCs that can actually rival pen and paper cost well over €1000. An iPad won't cut it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 424 ✭✭Landoflemon


    If someone is dead set on handwriting their notes, they may as well stick to pen and paper. The only tablet PCs that can actually rival pen and paper cost well over €1000. An iPad won't cut it.

    This is probably the best advice, I've looked up ghostwriter and its terribly laggy in its response and there is still no way it will be as accurate as a pen in your hand making contact with paper. Subscript and superscript in equations will be illegible if you're writing them on the ipad unless you write the equations very big.

    I'm guessing that NUIG is Like UL in that the computer Lab with all the engineering software is also used as a lab for engineering classes and you're asked to leave if you're not there for that particular class, this is why I would recommend having a laptop with your engineering software on it so that you can do it wherever you feel like, such as in the library.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 424 ✭✭Landoflemon


    Also, pardon my ignorance, but is the computer lab in NUIG accessible 24/7 like the one in UL?


  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Damie


    You can but a Macbook Air isn't anywhere near powerful enough to run Engineering software.

    What software can a macbook air not cope with? Very vague and inaccurate statement tbf


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Damie wrote: »
    What software can a macbook air not cope with? Very vague and inaccurate statement tbf
    Engineering Software: Namely the likes of Solidworks and other 3D modelling applications.

    There's nothing inaccurate about that and if you think it is, i'd recommend you try it out for yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Damie


    Engineering Software: Namely the likes of Solidworks and other 3D modelling applications.

    There's nothing inaccurate about that and if you think it is, i'd recommend you try it out for yourself.

    Its totally inaccurate when you don't know the spec of the computer. I've used various 3d software on a mac while also running a VM with Windows and other 3d software. These sort of vague inaccurate statements are not helpful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Damie wrote: »
    Its totally inaccurate when you don't know the spec of the computer.
    Eh, I do. Even a top-end Macbook Air isn't a suitable purchase for Engineering software.
    I've used various 3d software on a mac while also running a VM with Windows and other 3d software. These sort of vague inaccurate statements are not helpful.
    Vague is saying "I've used various 3d software on a Mac". You do realise that not all Macs are the same, right? There's nothing vague, inaccurate or unhelpful about anything that i've said in this thread. Apple fans seem to taken issue with me daring to suggest that perhaps an Apple product may not be ideal but that does not make anything that i've said any less accurate.

    I don't even know why I need to argue this point. To anyone with even the most basic knowledge of computer hardware, the idea of buying a laptop with a ULV CPU to run CAD software is unfathomable. Why should he pay €1000 to buy an underpowered ULV laptop when he can spend a tiny bit more and get a world-class mobile workstation that's actually going to be capable of competently running the software he needs to run?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Im doing Comp Science so it's probably slightly different but I plan on spending around €700 on building a decent desktop and then around €300 on a netbook.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    Damie wrote: »
    Its totally inaccurate when you don't know the spec of the computer. I've used various 3d software on a mac while also running a VM with Windows and other 3d software. These sort of vague inaccurate statements are not helpful.

    But we do know the spec. Mac book air = no graphics card!

    If it was a macbook pro you could install windows on it and be good to go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Damie


    Eh, I do. Even a top-end Macbook Air isn't a suitable purchase for Engineering software.

    Vague is saying "I've used various 3d software on a Mac". You do realise that not all Macs are the same, right? There's nothing vague, inaccurate or unhelpful about anything that i've said in this thread. Apple fans seem to taken issue with me daring to suggest that perhaps an Apple product may not be ideal but that does not make anything that i've said any less accurate.

    You seem to answer my point yourself.
    Anyway, far from a fanboy am I....
    I was just pointing out that it is vague and inaccurate to comment on "what can run what" without all the details.
    I don't even know why I need to argue this point. To anyone with even the most basic knowledge of computer hardware, the idea of buying a laptop with a ULV CPU to run CAD software is unfathomable. Why should he pay €1000 to buy an underpowered ULV laptop when he can spend a tiny bit more and get a world-class mobile workstation that's actually going to be capable of competently running the software he needs to run?

    But I agree with you on this point. While it may be possible to run CAD or Poser or 3DsMax or whatever on a mobile device, in no way is it a perfect solution due to graphics/ram/processor restrictions. Use the college computers and buy a pen and paper and save your money for something more worthwhile! My 2 cent


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Damie wrote: »
    You seem to answer my point yourself.
    Anyway, far from a fanboy am I....
    I was just pointing out that it is vague and inaccurate to comment on "what can run what" without all the details.
    He specifically asked about the Macbook Air. If you took time to actually read the thread instead of getting indignant and defensive of Macs you would have noticed that.
    But I agree with you on this point. While it may be possible to run CAD or Poser or 3DsMax or whatever on a mobile device, in no way is it a perfect solution due to graphics/ram/processor restrictions. Use the college computers and buy a pen and paper and save your money for something more worthwhile! My 2 cent
    A mobile workstation would be fairly competent at running most CAD software. They're not any more expensive than a Macbook but they're far more powerful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Damie


    He specifically asked about the Macbook Air. If you took time to actually read the thread instead of getting indignant and defensive of Macs you would have noticed that.


    A mobile workstation would be fairly competent at running most CAD software. They're not any more expensive than a Macbook but they're far more powerful.
    As I said, I'm not a fanboy or was in no way indignant. I merely pointed out that you were wrong when you stated that Macs could not run engineering software.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Damie wrote: »
    As I said, I'm not a fanboy or was in no way indignant. I merely pointed out that you were wrong when you stated that Macs could not run engineering software.
    And they cannot. The vast majority of Engineering software is Windows only. Buying a Mac to run Windows on it defeats the purpose. If you prefer Windows there are far superior laptops available at the same price point than any Macbook.

    With that in mind, it makes absolutely no sense for someone doing an Engineering degree to buy a Macbook of any description. If they can get an ISV-certified mobile workstation of a laptop with better hardware and better build quality for the same price as a Macbook, why should the idea of suggesting a Macbook even be entertained?


  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Damie


    Well if you read what I said, use the college machines and get a pen and paper for notes. That's my opinion. Your opinion is to buy a high end laptop. He mentioned a iPad and others. His opinion.

    I'm not pushing my opinion on him, just correcting mistakes in others advise. Maybe take note. I think the thread is derailed enough at this stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Damie wrote: »
    Well if you read what I said, use the college machines and get a pen and paper for notes. That's my opinion. Your opinion is to buy a high end laptop. He mentioned a iPad and others. His opinion.
    Actually he was asking if he should get an iPad 3 or laptop for college. My opinion is that he should go for a powerful Windows laptop as it would serve for note-taking, studying and working on assignments.
    I'm not pushing my opinion on him, just correcting mistakes in others advise. Maybe take note. I think the thread is derailed enough at this stage.
    Que? What is this nonsense? No one is pushing an opinion on anyone. I'm just answering the OP's question and for the record you haven't "corrected mistakes in other people's advice". All you've done is misinterpret other people's posts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭KittyeeTrix


    Mod Note: Lads, give over the bickering with each other.....Cheers :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭Janedoe10


    Exactly if u really really want windows u can install windows in the partition Bootcamp . So u can have the best of both worlds


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Janedoe10 wrote: »
    Exactly if u really really want windows u can install windows in the partition Bootcamp . So u can have the best of both worlds
    A laptop with unsuitable hardware running an OS it wasn't originally designed for?

    That's the worst of both worlds really.

    What's so wrong with suggesting that he buys something that won't give him endless headaches? :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 THEMRMONGOOSE


    I think I'd be better off just getting a windows laptop because its just less hassle with software. I'm not going to spend over 800 euro on one because honestly outside of engineering I just don't use them as much as I would an iPhone or tablet.
    It's a great suggestion to get that Dell workstation but I've been told by a friend in an engineering course that I would get on fine with a good powerful laptop (just not an ultrabook and definitely NOT a mac)
    I'm still staying strong with the iPad but I'm going to buy a laptop in the first few weeks in september, when the course starts. I figure I would use the iPad for personal use and handy extra information and the laptop purely for college work.
    With the laptop market being so competitive, is there a brand that stands out the most like Sony or Samsung or are they all just very similar in spec and performance?(I'm talking about in the 750-850 euro region)


  • Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭aperture_nuig


    I think I'd be better off just getting a windows laptop because its just less hassle with software. I'm not going to spend over 800 euro on one because honestly outside of engineering I just don't use them as much as I would an iPhone or tablet.
    It's a great suggestion to get that Dell workstation but I've been told by a friend in an engineering course that I would get on fine with a good powerful laptop (just not an ultrabook and definitely NOT a mac)
    I'm still staying strong with the iPad but I'm going to buy a laptop in the first few weeks in september, when the course starts. I figure I would use the iPad for personal use and handy extra information and the laptop purely for college work.
    With the laptop market being so competitive, is there a brand that stands out the most like Sony or Samsung or are they all just very similar in spec and performance?(I'm talking about in the 750-850 euro region)
    Generally, for me, just go with the brand that offers you the best spec for your money (although google the model of laptop to make sure there aren't any nasty common issues) use https://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/ to get the best bang for the buck, most people over on the laptop forum will recommend them, as would I, having used them in the past.

    For your budget maybe:

    https://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/Acer_Aspire_5755G_1114405.html
    6gb of RAM and acres of HDD for installing software and saving complex models, as well as music/videos etc. Quad i7 and nvidia graphics too will run anything you throw at it(within reason), and 15" display for portability. Good battery life for an i7 too! :) this is purely on spec mind you, I havent a clue if there have been any problems with this model or anything, so check around first.

    EDIT: Yay 200 posts :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 THEMRMONGOOSE


    Generally, for me, just go with the brand that offers you the best spec for your money (although google the model of laptop to make sure there aren't any nasty common issues) use https://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/ to get the best bang for the buck, most people over on the laptop forum will recommend them, as would I, having used them in the past.

    For your budget maybe:

    https://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/Acer_Aspire_5755G_1114405.html
    6gb of RAM and acres of HDD for installing software and saving complex models, as well as music/videos etc. Quad i7 and nvidia graphics too will run anything you throw at it(within reason), and 15" display for portability. Good battery life for an i7 too! :) this is purely on spec mind you, I havent a clue if there have been any problems with this model or anything, so check around first.

    Thanks for the link:) that acer looks to be very powerful and at a good price. I don't really pay much attention to laptops just general specs so I'm not too sure what's the best in the market . I hear Sony is good And reliable but as you said I'd probably get better value for money with another brand. Plus I've noticed that all the vaio's are quite broad and bulky anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭ZRelation


    Alot of hype on here.
    Here are the two most demanding programs you'll be using:
    1) Autodesk Inventor
    http://usa.autodesk.com/autodesk-inventor/system-requirements/

    2) Abaqus FEA
    http://www.3ds.com/support/certified-hardware/simulia-system-information/abaqus-611/system-requirements-for-abaqus-611-products/

    For the first one you'll never be using any significant rendering or animation or more than 200 parts in an assembly so the lower set of system requirements are fine. You only start 3D CAD halfway through your second year.

    For the second one, you'll only need it in 4th year and if you're doing anything decent with it you'll need to use a desktop anyways so won't make a difference what laptop you have.

    As has been said, don't get a Mac if you want to use engineering software.

    A bog standard Dell Inspiron did the job fine for me for the 4 years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 THEMRMONGOOSE


    ZRelation wrote: »
    Alot of hype on here.
    Here are the two most demanding programs you'll be using:
    1) Autodesk Inventor
    http://usa.autodesk.com/autodesk-inventor/system-requirements/

    2) Abaqus FEA
    http://www.3ds.com/support/certified-hardware/simulia-system-information/abaqus-611/system-requirements-for-abaqus-611-products/

    For the first one you'll never be using any significant rendering or animation or more than 200 parts in an assembly so the lower set of system requirements are fine. You only start 3D CAD halfway through your second year.

    For the second one, you'll only need it in 4th year and if you're doing anything decent with it you'll need to use a desktop anyways so won't make a difference what laptop you have.

    As has been said, don't get a Mac if you want to use engineering software.

    A bog standard Dell Inspiron did the job fine for me for the 4 years.

    Thats good to know a normal spec computer would do the job. But I read through the requirements of Autodesk Inventor and it says I would need a Full HD screen but every laptop I've been looking at is just HD ready.
    Why are the screens so bad?, you'd think in 2012 they would have but 1080p in most of these higher end models by now! Tablets are even beginning to pass them out!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭MyPeopleDrankTheSoup


    My God the Apple fanboys were entertaining in these here thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36 adam500


    Sadly the greater majority if Irish educational institutions have minimal or zero Mac/OSX based computing systems in use,in incomparison to the UK were some of the major University's computer systems are OSX based, witch means that if you were to invest your funds into a Mac laptop or iPad, it would be difficult if not impossible to be compatible with your course material, as your Uni probably will be windows based systems (unfortunately).

    There is a lot of posters on here stating that an iPad would be impractical for use on an engineering course, or in your case "biomes-engineering", but I personally don't agree. An Ipad can be used quiet well for all your needs, just as a laptop could, if you take the time to fully understand how to compute it and use it to function for your means, you would adjust perfectly. Chinise students are already abandoning there laptops for touch screen tablets as a more convenient form of computing.

    Touch screen tablets is the way computing is heading, it's well documented now that Apple will be focusing on the evolution of the iPad and tablet technology to replace laptops in the future. Touch screen interface is going to be the way, so to conclude your question, the iPad may not be at this moment the most favored form of computing for college goers but in time it will be replacing the laptop and will be and already is, just fine for use.

    Adi


  • Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭aperture_nuig


    adam500 wrote: »
    Sadly the greater majority if Irish educational institutions have minimal or zero Mac/OSX based computing systems in use,in incomparison to the UK were some of the major University's computer systems are OSX based, witch means that if you were to invest your funds into a Mac laptop or iPad, it would be difficult if not impossible to be compatible with your course material, as your Uni probably will be windows based systems (unfortunately).

    There is a lot of posters on here stating that an iPad would be impractical for use on an engineering course, or in your case "biomes-engineering", but I personally don't agree. An Ipad can be used quiet well for all your needs, just as a laptop could, if you take the time to fully understand how to compute it and use it to function for your means, you would adjust perfectly. Chinise students are already abandoning there laptops for touch screen tablets as a more convenient form of computing.

    Touch screen tablets is the way computing is heading, it's well documented now that Apple will be focusing on the evolution of the iPad and tablet technology to replace laptops in the future. Touch screen interface is going to be the way, so to conclude your question, the iPad may not be at this moment the most favored form of computing for college goers but in time it will be replacing the laptop and will be and already is, just fine for use.

    Adi

    while I agree with you in terms of the direction computing is heading, I'd love to see you do your CAD assignments on an iPad :confused: That's all I'm going to say, thread has been derailed by iPad v laptop debate for long enough.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 36 adam500


    while I agree with you in terms of the direction computing is heading, I'd love to see you do your CAD assignments on an iPad :confused: That's all I'm going to say, thread has been derailed by iPad v laptop debate for long enough.

    The soft were may not be 100% efficient for what may be required, but with the Auto Cad WS 1.2 sofwere for iPad, the user can reach a high standard of work with this softwere and also with the use of the touch screen pen.

    This software is ever growing, just give it a chance.

    CHECK THIS VIDEO OUT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgLFQx1tz9M&feature=related

    Adi


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