Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Speedy Gonzales or Slowpoke Rodriguez?

17810121329

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭dna_leri


    Seriously impressive, brilliant performance T.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭TheRoadRunner


    Well done. Well deserved.


  • Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭jeffontour


    If ever there was an example of getting what you deserve then this is it.

    An example to us all that hard work is key to getting quicker.


  • Registered Users Posts: 830 ✭✭✭ocnoc


    Well done T. Excellent stuff. Truly delighted for you.
    Plan on going again? :D

    On a more serious note, how much extra work do you think you'd have to do to knock another 5-10mins off?
    I know its probably not what your thinking now, but no harm in planting the seed :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,492 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Fantastic result T runner, superbly executed.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    ocnoc wrote: »
    Well done T. Excellent stuff. Truly delighted for you.
    Plan on going again? :D

    On a more serious note, how much extra work do you think you'd have to do to knock another 5-10mins off?
    I know its probably not what your thinking now, but no harm in planting the seed :)

    Some of the work is done already i that my aerobic capacity has increased. It is essential that i maintain most of current fitness.

    Ill write a report tomorrow but ill answer your question by first saying what id do differently with the training abd racing for last Sunday.

    Training: in hindsight i feel a 2:31xx was possible (in good conditions) 5 weeks out when i managed 20 k at 2:31 pace on a hillyish and windy trainijg course. I suffered from severe mental fatigue for a lot of the rmaining training due to too many very hard sessions/races. I experienced severe aversion (detestation infact) to any type of running. Thats sounds dramatic but its the truth.

    Solution would have been to eliminate the winter league and continue with my controlled aerobic progression with a monthly road race as progress indicator/reward. That would have made me faster in training and enabled me to sharpen during taper.

    On the day i started too far back and spent the whole day chasing but not catching a group of 20 runners 30-40s up the road. If i had been on that group when it formed i could have been 40s further up the road at 30k in a much more rested condition and really attacked the last 12k when wind conditions improved realatively from 30k on. Possibly 75s went a begging.

    Im noy knocking my run, im absoultely delighted with it, but with a different training build up and with good conditions/better tactics i could have good close to 2:30-31.

    Long story short i need to improve my aerobic capacity more/build on it and work on my speed/form. I think/hope theres more there but im turning 40 this summer so the next few months are important. Id do Rotterdam as a Spring marathon again in a heart beat.

    I got up to about 120k at fast aerobic paces this time before slowing the speeds to reach 160k. Id imagine id need several weeks at fast paced 160k running to stimulate more improvent. Id imagine id do some speed evelopement before this training and i might toy with a 4 week speed development phase immediately prior to a marathon specific phase of 6 weeks (Rosa).

    Anyway thats all hypothetical, im very happy and relieved to have a solid time in the bag. Ill have an upbeat and less analytical report tomorrow.

    One great discovery i made for banishing bad mental patches which ill share now. My wife sent me a picture of our 11 month old smiling daughter with a card saying "good luck daddy". Was a lovely photo. So instead of having a vicious internal argument with myself (which id no gurantee of winning) during tough periods i decided to invoke the memory of this picture. The result was that both positive and negative T Runners took time out of their negative arguing to smile at the image of their baby daughter.
    Soppy enough stuff but having a positive picture to call on can be a very effective method to harden a weakening mind. More prime BS coming tomoorow i promise!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭TheRoadRunner


    T runner wrote: »

    One great discovery i made for banishing bad mental patches which ill share now. My wife sent me a picture of our 11 month old smiling daughter with a card saying "good luck daddy". Was a lovely photo. So instead of having a vicious internal argument with myself during tough periods i decided to invoke the memory of this picture. The result was that both positive and negative T Runners took time out of their negative arguing to smile at the image of their baby daughter.
    Soppy enough stuff but having a positive picture to call on can be a very effective method to harden a weakening mind. More prime BS coming tomoorow i promise!

    :) That's not BS, we all need a happy place/image to go to during a race and that was perfect. Well done again


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Logistics:
    You can stay in Amsterdam, Brussels, Eindhoven etc and still do the Rotterdam marathon. Transport is excellent. We took Fyra train direct: good value at about €14 between the two cities (Amsterdam and Rotterdam). Hotel in Rotterdam to Schipol airport Amsterdam took 40 mins.
    Getting to the start pen is straightforward. There is a significant difference between a big city 40,000er and the 20,000 person Rotterdam. Plenty of room to warm up in side streets too.
    Training: Training had overall been very good. From late September I had built up to 100-120 kpw at fast aerobic paces. From then on it was 160-70kpw at slower paces with long hard runs thrown in.
    Some of these runs helped on the day. A hard 35k at 4 min pace stands out which set me up for a tough Canova style 35k with “speed variations”. These two sessions, although a long way out, were key.
    I kept this volume more or less through a series of 4 races in 5 weeks (the 3 winter league IMA races and Nat Intermediate XC). After a half marathon 6 weeks out volume dropped to 120-130k mostly easy and it was in effect a very long taper from this point. 5 weeks out a tough 20k pace run required a full week to recover, with a long run and 10k 4 weeks out the last significant block of hard training.
    After my pace run 20k 5 weeks out (although a great session) I found it difficult mentally to do any hard running. I picked the unscheduled 10k 4 weeks out because only a race (with a steady start) would bypass this aversion to running. From being ruthlessly clinical in all my hard sessions I now felt I neither couldn’t nor did not want to run with any intensity. Easy running became jogging and I arrived at the race morning with serious worry that I had blown it. Anything to do with the marathon felt like a choir. After my final breakfast (last choir) I actually shed the worry and decided to get on with it. (Get on with the story says you).

    Race: I had decided that 2:33:30 was a reasonable target. The wind was a worry and it was blowing as predicted on Sunday morning, worse in fact. My start steadily strategy might not suit a day when running through the field was hampered by the wind. I decided to stop worrying and get on with it: perhaps this time one more piece of analysis might have benefitted...more later.
    Warmed up, about 4 by 2.5 mins building up to marathon effort each time. A few strides and I arrived in the pen 15 mins before kickoff. I was in pen B (2:30-2:45) pace and I immediately saw people there who shouldn’t have been. I considered pushing to the front but thought it impolite and anyway, this way id guarantee a steady start.
    An Ingleburt Humperdink character sang “you’ll never walk alone” and I was amazed to find out later that this man was the Lord Mayor of Rotterdam!
    The people in the high rise apartments on the south side of the Maas had their usual nervous wait but thankfully the race start cannonball whizzed peacefully by.
    The race start is actually tight. Two lanes of road with no hard shoulder meant that I was immediately boxed. After a couple of k we climbed the Erasmus Bridge for the first time. I’ve passed loads and finally have room. I remember the pace from Paris 2010, not pushing, not holding back. Feels OKish although legs feel funny, not warmed up or something. At 3k I spot a very sizeable (30+) runners 100m ahead up the road and I am confident that I will catch them soon and will have my shelter. Passing Feyenoord Stadium and 5k in 18:34 and the group is still elusive. I start to up it a bit and am working well with an Italian guy. A group has formed behind us. Me and my Italian friend are doing all the horse work and the U turn at 8k shows me that the group I covet is worth coveting and still 30s ahead. Doing all the work is annoying me and I stand aside and move back into the group. The pace slows. This is the 2:40 train that I’ve caught. Mine is 30s up the track. The wind is significant and I realise that a windy marathon is a marathon of groups. You need to be on the ball at the start to get your group. I was pushing and not gaining and knowing I could be idling at the same speed 30s ahead. OK I need to get into that group. Through 11k and a left turn into shelter (18:18 second 5k). My target is 18:20s as I know that’s under 2:35 which is now very much my target. Here we go. I kick clear of the group and eat the ground up. The Italian follows me. Good. 2k of progress and then a sharp right into a forceful wind. Keep working but at 15k I’m sickened to see an 18:26 split.
    It’s into the wind all the way now. My friend is stretched and can’t help. I tell him not to bother, just to tuck in behind. We start passing elite females at this stage, dropping back from that big female qualifier/men sub 2:35 group. I’m going well but the group is now 35 s up. 20k split is a not unexpected 18:30 despite running well. I see the HM at 77.55 I think and I’m a little concerned but I’m feeling strong now and am moving economically through the wind. 25k (18:35) and the Erasmus bridge and my frind is dropped. I know my Dad is there so I run strongly through. He is in charge of texting the news at this stage. Feeling good I take the bridge without increasing effort. Near the race start/finish area and we veer right and West for a lap of a park. The 2 kilometres before this are the worst for headwind and I feel like cursing my luck. Chalk it down to a bad day a thought advises; settle behind that big Dutch guy ahead. My wife has sent me a good luck FB pic of our baby daughter. I invoke the image and storm passed the Dutchman. 30k (18:25) is encouraging. Time to crank it up. Wooohoo!!! Amazingly the park is sheltered. A beautiful surface, no wind. I’m pushing now, long fast strides, eating ground. I realise I’m lacking sharpness from my steady taper, but I’m not short of strength.
    A horrible little U section out of the park on hard modern cobbles, the dreaded wind returns but it’s an 18:13 split and we have only 7k to go. Run it in steady now T, you’ve done enough, I hear in my right ear. Sort that out picture of little baby. Sorted and advise to kick on.
    I up the effort. Passing a lot of people now, many female Olympic aspirants. Some make it. It’s distressing to witness others in torture that won’t.
    The group has disappeared like a dying comet. 40k in 18:14. The maths tell me my average is over 18:20 so 2:35:40 or so is predicted. Pass a few more, shout bravo to a couple of females as I pass. Now nobody ahead for 200m. Passing through the spectators running up the last k on the Coolsingel (Main Street) I wave my arms and whoop to try and get a cheer. I feel embarrassed after doing it so abort the planned side break dance moves. With 30 m to go I look at the clock. 2:34:50. I sprint to try and get my chip under 2:35 and narrowly fail. Doh!
    Of course 18:20 ave for 5k splits gives under 2:35 (2:34:20 I think) so I was on for a sub 2:35. Not to worry. Delighted to have bagged a solid time. I reckon a potential minute was lost by the boxed start and missing that group. My own fault. Skinnier arses in front and less skinny arses behind will decide my start pen position from now on.

    Conditions were reasonable in hindsight especially considering what people had to endure in Boston the following day.

    I’ll have a go at 2:30 again for sure. Considering Dublin and possibly a final cut at Rotterdam 2013.

    I actually liked the city a lot. For anyone with an interest in modern architecture the city seems to have the excellence only philosophy of cities like Barcelona. Probably the most convenient European marathon from Ireland (and including Britain).


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,441 ✭✭✭Slogger Jogger


    Very thoughtful, well written report T. Respect for the achievement, well done mate. Nice touch with the photo to dispatch any negative ghosts that might otherwise haunt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭ Sullivan Enough Kindergarten


    Well done T Runner enjoyed that report and great race. I always find it helpful to have something to fall back on from my bag of tricks when things get tough and negative thoughts creep in...funnily enough faces of my kids gets regularly used:)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 19,492 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    I wish my race report was a little more like yours. More results, less waffle! Sub 2:30 will feel comfortable for you next time. I look forward to the next chapter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    I wish my race report was a little more like yours. More results, less waffle! Sub 2:30 will feel comfortable for you next time. I look forward to the next chapter.

    You were guaranteed your time as far as i could see bar the weather. There wasnt much waffle in the training you put in. There was nothing you could do taht you didnt do re. the race. My goal is to try and maintain most of fitness in next 4 weeks. If you maintain fitness then you should move to the next time barrier.


  • Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭jeffontour


    T runner wrote: »
    My goal is to try and maintain most of fitness in next 4 weeks.

    Sounds like perfect timing for a very strong IMRA Irish champs performance. Will you be making an appearance?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Not at Donard anyway! A little soon.

    I was looking at Daniels book last night. I need to gain speed. His 5k-15k training involves R training T training and I training. I was speculating it might be possible to just do the R and T training while leaving the I training. That way i could do speedwork while maintaining high mileage and progressing Aerobic Capacity as well as speed and form. I'd aim for a few 5-10ks and Warriors run at end of August. Maybe start training for Dublin marathon then.

    I found it difficult to race winter league while training for Rotterdam. The Irish champs would be a different kettle of fish altogether.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Carrick race report: 40:37 1st place.

    The weather was perfect as I was doing my warm up. I had decided to warm up on a loop climbing the fire road from the race start area and first steep track before cutting left off the course along another fire road to get to the tricky steep descent in near the finish. The descent was a steep rutted mountain bike track and markers had been taped around some tree trunks to be rounded on 2 occasions. I was glad to get to round them before the race for confidence sake. Left it tight time wise and made it to the start during the opening speech, whipped off the warm up gear and was ready to go. A quick look around and I saw Torben, Des, Paul Mahon and Bernard. No sign of Tristan or Eanna.

    In the women’s race there was Karen O’H, in great consistent form. Eilis from my club Rathfarnham who is improving with every hill race and is a formidable descended and would be a threat to Eilis and there was a few improving runners.

    I thought Ian Conroy was supposed to be there as he had provisionally booked a place in my carpool before he secured a north side lift. I didn’t see him immediately but my hopes were soon dashed. There he was right beside me! It was quite obvious looking at him that Ian was the man to beat - a prolific climbing talent and a very fast flat runner to boot.

    I had considered how to approach the race with him in it knowing that it would be hard to match Ian’s speed and super climbing ability. Do I try and put it up to him on the climb by applying a little pressure and doubt but risk blowing up to try? Or do I let him go, hope he eases off and try and surprise him on the descent? These were my options and neither was good. I figured that to have any chance I must hold second position on the climb.

    Off we go. Ian pushes very hard out in front immediately. So this will be the way of it…. I decide to go after him….. I had a feeling if I didn’t that the next sighting might be the hand shake at the finish line. The pace was very hard as we climbed the fire road after about half a k...I eased slightly, (better to have a choice in it I reckoned and no point in red lining before the real climbing) and as Ian arrived at the first steep climb left he was 15 metres in front. Gap limitation was my motto now….but holding the gap opening rate was hurting up that steepish path….. The right turn for fire road number 2 and some flat running relief. Plenty of lactic in the thighs. Ian was only running slightly faster here which meant he probably was availing of a bit of the recovery on offer also. Some solace but I knew it was short lived and I groaned inwardly as Ian disappeared eagerly left up the real climb. Gap about 20s now. I’m immediately hurting as the climb starts...Ian is powering further ahead and my hopes are fading with every metre. I have a huge urge to slow down…to concede. I tell myself just keep the effort to the top. There will be relief then. I cross a fire road as Ian is disappearing from sight….reminiscent of Lenihan powering up Caher....a noise 10m behind from a runner (Des, I find out later) and I’m being caught for second. Cue more mental faltering. I stubbornly decide that if anyone gets close the elbows will go out and I seem to realise that I’m climbing as well as I can and the top is actually only a few minutes away. I keep the effort up and the noises from behind recede a bit. Path turns left and climb eases…and flattens. I keep the effort up until I can hand some of the work over to gravity on the first downhill. The path is tricky enough and it’s hard to run in a relaxed manner being so tired. I do well to force a controlled fast enough pace for the first few minutes after the climb over an undulating section. The path is tricky though…..and as I gain partial recovery o cheer up a bit and my thoughts turn again to Ian somewhere in the trees well ahead. I pass Alan Ayling, one of the course markers extraordinaire and strain to read signs of my chances from his salute. He says “keep it going T” encouragingly but that means “you’re running for second place here son”. The gap must be still big but I sense its closing...and the terrain is not getting easier.... I tell myself to shut up and concentrate on covering the ground fast. After a couple of K of winding mainly descent a clearing opens and suddenly I see Ian, still 15-20 secs ahead-- a good distance but battle has well and truly being re-engaged now. Ian is doing well though and we are reaching the end of this long single track descend transitioning to a phase where Ian should regain his superiority: a 40-50m climb in height gain followed by 2k of flat fire road. I try and not lose to Ian on the climb and I actually limit my losses well here. Were on the fire road now out in the open and I realise that the win is once again out of my hands. Ian is faster than me when I’m at my very sharpest and although I’m very strong again after my marathon my leg speed is not quite there. I take long strides and push as hard as I can to try and compensate a little.

    Ian will surely push on here himself and kill my challenge
    the winning move. .....that would negate the upcoming steep rutted descent where he would be most vulnerable against the likes of me. But a kilometre has passed and he hasn’t gained, he’s not running like a man who is fading or hunted, but he’s not 100% up to speed either. I’m delighted to be still in it and although hurting I’m relaxed and I’m motivated and moving fast now. I realise that I need to bridge the gap on the narrow steep descent, pass Ian and force a winning gap to take into the remaining 500m of fire road.

    I don’t like confrontation and viewing a close finish as a confrontation has meant that I have conceded places before to avoid it. So when I know there is a fight coming I have to whip myself up sufficiently just to get myself to step into the fray.
    I see Ian hesitate slightly before turning right and disappearing down the hole. About 15s later I pass the same point at speed and in a black rage. I let go completely and half way down I reach Ian. Luckily, I’m able to arm link around a trunk and slip by which saves me Wily Coyote-ting it through the trunk. I’ve a clear line ahead now and there’s enough descent left to put in the gap I need. I sense in my bones that it’s not over yet though. I almost fall out onto the fire-road like a hunted animal, turning left and then follow the fire road sharp right. I look up hoping to see nothing but I see a white streak flying down. Around one bend and another, a bit of straight, look behind frantically, and here he comes! Another bend. If this is the last bend I have a chance, if not Ian wins, simple as that. It’s the last bend and mercifully the line is only about 70 metres beyond. I sprint for it and cross the line 4 seconds before Ian.
    Winning against a superior opponent is always satisfying and that was the most satisfying win of my running career.

    Chatted to Ian after... A really genuine and intelligent guy. Somewhere in the conversation he mentioned that as he went further down the long fire road he started to worry that he was lost. That explained why he didn’t put me away on that section and that’s what cost him the race. Or maybe studying the map in detail is what gave me the chance to win the race.
    Somehow I know he won’t tolerate being headed by me again, and that’s how it should be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,441 ✭✭✭Slogger Jogger


    Great report T. Can almost see every step and rock along the way. The way I like it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭dna_leri


    Great stuff, probably the best real race report on the forum. Makes me want to go out and race.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,492 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    +1. Racing in the real sense of the word. Fantastic stuff. Hope you keep coming back to the log, after your races.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Hi Folks.

    Wont be posting on boards again due to time constraints and other reasons.

    Nice chatting to all.

    Started a running blog today which may be of interest to some.

    http://fearstandingstill.wordpress.com/

    First post is a report from Clongowes 5k on Saturday last.

    Good luck with your training and goals!

    T Runner


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    Really enjoyed your log full of detail and hopefully I can put some of what I've learnt to good use.
    I'll still be following you on the new blog, best of luck with it.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭thirstywork2


    Your blog didn't last long confused.png


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Hi Folks.

    Reviving this again as I need at least one person looking over my shoulder to keep me honest:
    I’m slowly building up aerobically at the moment. Had difficulties heading out the door this winter so had to change the approach: Made us of Hadds PDF for HR training. Slow progress but got me consistent again for a month or more and have reached the stage now where I’m enjoying running again. Hadds approach is basically a Lydiard type build up using HR. Endurance is maxed at all the slower aerobic HRs before increasing the highest HR (used twice per week) by 5 beats and starting again, while still maintaining all the lower rates. This method of maxing aerobic fitness at all aerobic paces can be visualised by imaging how you’d get every last drop of toothpaste out of a tube.

    I’m not as fit as this time last year but I’m building more slowly so am potentially fitter.

    An endpoint might be DCM 2013.
    Two possible routes to it :
    A. Spring 10 mile/half marathon--- European qualifier in Mountain running —----DCM
    B. Concentrate exclusively on mountain running (the rough variety) till July---Road running/races
    DCM

    A Canovian Structure to the required training would be:

    Fundamental 1: Extend long runs and global volume (Using Hadd/Lydiard) to weekly max.
    Fundamental 2: After reaching max weekly volume: aerobic paces are increased (Using Hadd/Lydiard/Canova). Long runs up to 90% of event speed.
    Some faster fartlek, reps and intervals added.
    Some XC, 5m, 5k

    Special : Long runs getting faster up to 95% of Event speed or effort although fundamental long run remains 85%+.
    Volume of faster fartlek, reps and intervals increased.
    HM, 10k, 5k

    Specific (for intermediate goal, this may be still special for DCM): Specific event intervals, reps, fartlek and long runs added to the mix.

    Specific DCM: Reps are lengthened, Long runs include MP segments and faster, alternations etc.

    In a nutshell:
    1. Mega aerobic build-up.
    2. 10k type training with long run getting faster
    3. HM type training with long run getting faster.
    4. Marathon specific training sessions retaining some HM/10m sessions


    Areas of improvement from previous marathon:
    1. Fundamental 1 was missing last time. Slower build up and more long/medium long runs should mean that aerobic fitness should be greatly enhanced after end of fundamental with strong endurance at most aerobic paces.

    2. Special phases will be present. Last time I did a concentrated winter mountain running league in place of special training with minimal sessions.

    Allen, the great Ironman champion from the 80’s said he didn’t have success until he did the training that his goals required

    PBs at the moment are:

    5k: 16:13
    5mile 27:14
    10k: 33:31
    10m-
    HM 74:23
    M 2:35:04



    Any questions, comments etc. any time, more than welcome.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 784 ✭✭✭Stazza


    Looks like a good plan but what's your goal time for DCM? I ask because I think it's important to focus your training towards that goal.

    So, if you were aiming for 2.28 you need to be comfortable around 5:40 pace. To be comfortable around 5:40 pace you'll need to get your 5k time down around 15:20 and your 10k time tickling the 32 mark. When you have these boxes ticked then, imo, you will have the the necessary starting point in terms of aerobic capacity. From here, you can push on with the Canova stuff. If you don't get the aerobic capacity/ An T. sorted after rebuilding your aerobic base, I think the plan will begin to crack and you'll struggle with the long harder stuff.

    If, however, you're only looking to knock 1-2 mins off your marathon pb, then you don't need to worry too much about developing your aerobic capacity/An T. so much.

    Here's an idea: after developing your aerobic base, which I believe should include some alactic stuff and circuits (see Steve Magness and Canova for the circuits), why not look at Hadley's approach towards the fundamental stage - this will maintain and develop aerobic threshold as well as tackling the other areas/zones, before getting into the hard core Canova stuff.

    These are just some initial comments...;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭thirstywork2


    Good to see you back here logging ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Stazza wrote: »
    Looks like a good plan but what's your goal time for DCM? I ask because I think it's important to focus your training towards that goal.

    So, if you were aiming for 2.28 you need to be comfortable around 5:40 pace. To be comfortable around 5:40 pace you'll need to get your 5k time down around 15:20 and your 10k time tickling the 32 mark. When you have these boxes ticked then, imo, you will have the the necessary starting point in terms of aerobic capacity. From here, you can push on with the Canova stuff. If you don't get the aerobic capacity/ An T. sorted after rebuilding your aerobic base, I think the plan will begin to crack and you'll struggle with the long harder stuff.

    If, however, you're only looking to knock 1-2 mins off your marathon pb, then you don't need to worry too much about developing your aerobic capacity/An T. so much.

    Here's an idea: after developing your aerobic base, which I believe should include some alactic stuff and circuits (see Steve Magness and Canova for the circuits), why not look at Hadley's approach towards the fundamental stage - this will maintain and develop aerobic threshold as well as tackling the other areas/zones, before getting into the hard core Canova stuff.

    These are just some initial comments...;)

    Very coincidently, just after a lunch circuit session there: leg exercises with 400m @ HM pace in between. Just 4 exercises and 1600 metres but just getting the template right. Ill check magness/canova to see exactly what a full session should look like.

    Your idea about Hadley is also good. Again I have been looking at Hadley recently and would be using it right now if i was doing a Spring marathon.

    Hadley would mean a fundamental phase starting early May for DCM as target. That would fit as my intermediate goals would be an uphill mountain running trial (on runnable trails) in mid June. That would only require a modification of one stress run a week (zone 1-3) to hills.


    Trying to knock a significant chunk off my PB.

    Yes, 2:27-8 is the initial goal. It is a logical target, i think (a good time buffer to 2:30) and I hope I'm capable of it.

    I feel that my early aerobic training for Rotterdam meant i was probably on course for low 2:30s given where i was last January.

    The diversion for hill running meant i didnt get the 10k-HM sessions in and it also fatigued me. I blew any chances from 6-4 weeks out: running a HM, 20k progression run averaging 2:32 race pace, and 4 weeks out a 10k race and hilly long run. Virtually all running was slower than race pace from then until the marathon race itself. On race day I made a blunder by catching the 2:40 group and not the 2:35 group on a windy day. That cost me 60s+ judging on how the 2:35 group fared.

    What all these excuses might mean is that i dont need to improve 7-8 minutes aerobically from last time to achieve the goal: 4-5 minutes should do (7s a kilometer)..... the remaining 3-4 minutes can be achieved by smarter training and racing. I have a few fast aerobic runs from last time on set courses where i can test to see if im on target at various stages of this aerobic buildup. Hopefully when i emerge from this aerobic phase ill be running these faster times and can get close to the 5k/10k times you indicated.

    Hadley might be the way to go....i paid a little for the experimental nature of my training last time...and having a guideline like Hadley means that a tired mind is not making up (cocking up) the training at the crucial specific phase.

    Hope to have a cut at making the Rathfarnham scoring team and should have very experienced lads to train with.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Week 10-16 Dec 2012
    Mon E 13.5k
    Tue Run 1 E 6k inc Circuits
    Run 2 E 12.5k
    Wed E-S 20k
    Thur E 12.5k Inc 10 X 120 strides
    Fri E 18.5 k
    Sat S 15.5k (4:06 pace)
    Sun E 2hrs 10m (approx 28k)

    Total 124k

    Not as much as id hoped but progressing.

    Garmin HR strap needs new battery so no HRs this week.
    Hope to do 1 circuits, 2core sessions this coming week as well as 1 uphill sprint session and 1 set of strides.
    The Sat steady represents my fastest pace run of the week and should be equivalent to 160 bpm HR but i think this one, although comfortable, may have been over. Meant to do 2 of those runs a week (16k each) the remaining easy runs should be a spread from 140 to 155 with any extra mileage in the 140-145 zone or lower (4:35 pace at moment).
    Lomg run should be about 155 bpm.
    Ill add a 10k run with every 200m alternating from 5k pace to easy at the end of this month.

    Focus now is to get all the elements in this week:

    Circuits, hill sprints, strides
    Two (160 bpm) 16k runs
    Long run 2-2.5 hrs @150-55 bpm
    1-2 medium long runs
    Total Min 140 k


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    A quick update.

    Managed 2 * 100k weeks since i logged last which i was happy with. Had a seious chest infection and a lot of work and family stuff so this was a good outcome, most were done in single runs.

    This week:

    Mon AM 13.5k
    PM 10k

    Tuesday 33k

    Wednesday 12.5 hobble
    Thursday 18k

    A tough week too work and personal commitment wise, but i tried hard to keep
    the volume in.

    Tuesday was meant to be 2 runs broken to equal 35k..ended up doing a long run out and over Howth and back in wind and rain. Was tired and hungry starting and forgot supplies. Bonked coming back and blew my 5er on coke and mars bars in a petrol station. Legs had cooled in mean time so last 8 k was a painful hobble. Its always a risk with this run at this time of year. Wont be doing it again for a while.

    The paln now is to get miles in (doing 1000 challenge to help) by doubles triples or however. I cant do a grand plan due to woek commitments etc so plan is get the runs in early in the day and often. If i skip a run now it wont get done.

    Objective now is mountain running this season. Marathon ambitions on hold till Spring 14. Mountain running requires strenght and not just in the legs as your body gets knocked about and shaken a good bit on the terrain. Strenght work is imperative.

    High volume and strenght to improve body comp (reduce weight) and increase leg (climbing and descending) strenght is very desireable.

    If i cant get the volume in then quality needs to be upped. Ill start doing a hill run every 2nd week now to gradually get more specific to event.

    Weekly total: 87k
    2013 total: 63.5


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 belfastbelle


    Friday: rest

    Saturday:10k inc 7.2 @ tempo. 3:35-6 pace.

    Sunday: 22k steady

    Im changing plans with every post it seems....anyway heres the latest. Finding it extremely difficult to get the mileage in through commitments and lack of sleep. Im ready for more of a stimulus On the body so im going to start a fundamentql phase. I.e every and any session that springs to mind, getting all ttainng intensities in fairly evenly and basically having fun on each run. This worked well last year. I wil diversify the aerobic speeds a little more this year with more reps and intervals as well as tempos and steadys and easys. Hopefully circumstances will improve re mileage shortly.

    Forcing myself out for yet another easy run on saturday was so difficult that i had to compromise on a bit of faster running to summon sufficient interest. Running should be enjoyable first rule or shoukd be in my book. Not enjoyable=not sustaineable.
    Tempo was ok. Limiting factor was speed rather than fitness so ill try and get a rep session in this week. Might do tuesdsy club session 5 x 2k but will do it restrained. That would leave 20 x 200 for thursdsy to clear any speed limiting cobwebs for dublin XC masters sunday.

    Next few sessions might be 15k @ marathon pb pace plus 5 %, 3:50 pace or thereabouts. Then a long easy hillrun, steady, uphill tempo, reps etc etc.

    Happy enough with where i am considering. Definately have a good base. Time to start putting some pressure on the aerobic system!

    Weekly total: 119k. Year to date: 95.5


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,492 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Im changing plans with every post it seems....anyway heres the latest.
    Changing names with every post too! Given that you're planning marathon pace sessions, is it back on the cards or still out until 2014? Did you run any of the other xc races this winter? Good to see you posting regularly again (even if you're having an identity crisis!).


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Changing names with every post too! Given that you're planning marathon pace sessions, is it back on the cards or still out until 2014? Did you run any of the other xc races this winter? Good to see you posting regularly again (even if you're having an identity crisis!).

    Didnt realise mrs t runner was logged in when i posted that!

    I did the leinster masters and was 10 th. Ran well, enough. A mediocre run in dublin seniors, although with a bonus of team bronze medal in a poorly attended race and a very poor outing in dublin intermediates was all.
    My tempo yesterday was the most intense run since the intermediates.

    Marathon is still off till 2014. Marathon pace plus 5% is about as fast as i can go without huge recovery in a long continous steady run of 15k plus. Good for improving aerobic threshold and general aerobic condition. The irish champs in mountain running races range from 50 mins to 90. If i can get this run up to 90 min it will be a great base for moving on to hillier and mountainier continuos hard runs. I noticed particularly during the annagh hil race that i was able to get my speed up very quickly on faster sections. Thinking about it afterwards i reckoned it was due to these type of runs and the long steady runs i was doing at around 4min k pace. They really grind
    that leg turnover in. I might consider doing some of them uphill though next month (on a threadmill) as leg strenght is so important in the bigger races.

    Anyway, illness might curb you but would you otherwise have considered a scalping mission to st annes this weekend for dublin masters yourself? Id certainly be wearing my ned kelly helmet if you did and if i had one!


Advertisement