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car impound charges

  • 29-03-2011 8:42pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 11 wrb


    hi all,

    i made a mistake and obstructed a gate. my car was towed away by a private company due to garda order (section 98 of road traffic act). i have no problem with that. i made a mistake and i am ok to pay according to the rule of law.

    i apologised owners of the house, immediately contacted the company to pay the fee and take my car as soon as possible, but they refused. i was told to come next day in the morning, which i did - i took my car after 18 hours.

    i was charged 150eu for towing + 40eu storage fee + VAT.

    but according to citizens information website
    The Road Traffic (Removal, Storage and Disposal of Vehicles) Regulations 1983 - 1991 give power to local authorities to tow away vehicles that have been abandoned or illegally parked on a public road or in a local authority car park. Vehicles are towed to a car pound and a significant fee (up to 160 euro) may be charged for their release.
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/traffic_and_parking/parking_fines_and_vehicle_clamping.html

    as well, according to irish examiner article
    Following an internal audit, the Garda has established that, in cases where vehicles were impounded under section 41 of the Road Traffic Act and subsequently returned, there had been instances of overcharging, a spokesman said.

    The towing fee should include the first 24 hours of storage but in some cases a first day charge was added to the towing cost.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cwaukfkfsngb/

    i called garda about above and they said that section 41 of road traffic act does not apply in my case. as well, i was told that the fee is matter between me and the private company (i.e. the company can charge me whatever they want). the gardai did not know which law says so.

    i do not believe that there is no fee regulations when your car is towed away due to garda request by a private company. if i am right, then... where can i find the information about the fees including references to appropriate law?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11 wrb




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    wrb wrote: »
    hi all,

    i made a mistake and obstructed a gate. my car was towed away by a private company due to garda order (section 98 of road traffic act). i have no problem with that. i made a mistake and i am ok to pay according to the rule of law.

    S.98 of the RTA 1961 deals with obstruction of traffic through a public place.

    98.—(1) A person shall not do any act (whether of commission or omission) which causes or is likely to cause traffic through any public place to be obstructed.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0098.html#sec98

    There is no particular power granted to the Gardai to have a car towed away if it's simply obstructing an entrance to private property so I find it dificult to deal with your accont of events, especially when you say that your car was towed away by a private company due to garda order (section 98 of road traffic act). I'm not aware that the Gardai have any such power under S.98 or any other section of the RTA.

    Could you clarify exactly what it was you obstructed.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 wrb


    coylemj wrote: »
    S.98 of the RTA 1961 deals with obstruction of traffic through a public place.

    98.—(1) A person shall not do any act (whether of commission or omission) which causes or is likely to cause traffic through any public place to be obstructed.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0098.html#sec98

    There is no particular power granted to the Gardai to have a car towed away if it's simply obstructing an entrance to private property so I find it dificult to deal with your accont of events, especially when you say that your car was towed away by a private company due to garda order (section 98 of road traffic act). I'm not aware that the Gardai have any such power under S.98 or any other section of the RTA.

    Could you clarify exactly what it was you obstructed.....

    It was gate of a private home.

    It seems the powers to Garda are granted in the regulations cited by Citizens Information web page (part 2 and 4)

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1983/en/si/0091.html
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/si/0358.html

    I cannot find newer regulations, i.e. saying 160eu or that the fees are the matter between me and the towing company in such case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 wrb


    last year i tried to get more information about above from Garda.

    and basically there is no chance get information about such stuff.

    once a Gardai orders a company (Gannons Recovery in my case) to take
    your property, then you are on your own. Garda takes no responsibility,
    will not help you to get your property back (assuming you are ready to pay!)
    and will refuse any fees information.

    my advice to others - if they refuse to give your car back, then call
    a lawyer immediately. record every single call when dealing with Gardai
    or company ordered to impound your car.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    The current fees are €125 for towing and €35 for storage after the first day. I suggest you ask the towing company why you were charged storage and if you have no luck then write to the Superintendent of the district from which your car was towed.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11 wrb


    MagicSean wrote: »
    The current fees are €125 for towing and €35 for storage after the first day. I suggest you ask the towing company why you were charged storage and if you have no luck then write to the Superintendent of the district from which your car was towed.

    Hey,

    Thanks for the info, but that's not true.

    First, I did call the Superintendent office and they basically were unable to provide
    information about the fees. After several calls with a Gardai from the office and following
    his advice all the time, actually the Gardai had to force Gannons Recovery to answer
    my calls and provide answer to my letter. The answer provided no information,
    of course. :)

    Finally, I sent a letter to Superintendent office asking directly about the procedure
    of car impound and the fees. I got quite interesting answer. Hard to recall from memory,
    so let me provide it in the evening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    What part of my post is not true exactly?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 wrb


    Let me provide the following.

    Few remarks about my questions to Superintendent
    1. I am asking what _the_ _law_ _says_ about the fees, not what a company charges.
    2. I have a letter from Superintendent office claiming that the matter of fees is between me and Gannons but Gardai have provided no answer that this is actually the law.
    3. I asked Gannons over a phone and via letters about the fees and the question was ignored. It is amazing that such company can win Garda tender.

    The questions sent to Superintendent
    I am really dissapointed, that I have to complain about Gannons company,
    which does not act in good faith and is refusing to answer my questions
    about car towing due to Garda orders.
    
    Because of above, I have no other choice, but to ask you directly
    
    1. Which law or regulations state that matter of fees is between Gannons
       company and owner of towed car ?
    
    2. If above was stated by mistake, then I have the following questions
       (a) What is the maximum fee I should be charged for towing (VAT inclusive)?
       (b) What is the maximum fee I should be charged for storage (VAT inclusive)?
       (c) Should towing fee include first 24 hours of storage?
    
    
    The response from Superintendent
    On todays date I contacted Gannons at Donabate and confirmed the
    pricing structure with their representative which is as follows:
    
    Vehicle seized for obstruction:
    Charge is 150eu plus Vat. This does not include storage which is charged
    at 40eu plus VAT per 24 hour period or part thereof.
    
    Vehicle seized under Section 41 of the Road Traffic Act as amended:
    Charge is 125eu plus VAT. This includes storage for the first 24 hour period,
    thereafter storage is charged at 35eu plus Vat.
    
    Again, but what the law says? :| Of course, not addressing my questions is other matter...

    MagicSean, the fee you are providing is _not_ for vehicle seized for obstruction. As you can see there is some "price structure", which needs to be taken into account.

    Is this price structure defined by law? It seems that Garda simply does not know.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    wrb wrote: »
    Let me provide the following.

    Few remarks about my questions to Superintendent
    1. I am asking what _the_ _law_ _says_ about the fees, not what a company charges.
    2. I have a letter from Superintendent office claiming that the matter of fees is between me and Gannons but Gardai have provided no answer that this is actually the law.
    3. I asked Gannons over a phone and via letters about the fees and the question was ignored. It is amazing that such company can win Garda tender.

    The questions sent to Superintendent
    I am really dissapointed, that I have to complain about Gannons company,
    which does not act in good faith and is refusing to answer my questions
    about car towing due to Garda orders.
    
    Because of above, I have no other choice, but to ask you directly
    
    1. Which law or regulations state that matter of fees is between Gannons
       company and owner of towed car ?
    
    2. If above was stated by mistake, then I have the following questions
       (a) What is the maximum fee I should be charged for towing (VAT inclusive)?
       (b) What is the maximum fee I should be charged for storage (VAT inclusive)?
       (c) Should towing fee include first 24 hours of storage?
    
    
    The response from Superintendent
    On todays date I contacted Gannons at Donabate and confirmed the
    pricing structure with their representative which is as follows:
    
    Vehicle seized for obstruction:
    Charge is 150eu plus Vat. This does not include storage which is charged
    at 40eu plus VAT per 24 hour period or part thereof.
    
    Vehicle seized under Section 41 of the Road Traffic Act as amended:
    Charge is 125eu plus VAT. This includes storage for the first 24 hour period,
    thereafter storage is charged at 35eu plus Vat.
    
    Again, but what the law says? :| Of course, not addressing my questions is other matter...

    MagicSean, the fee you are providing is _not_ for vehicle seized for obstruction. As you can see there is some "price structure", which needs to be taken into account.

    Is this price structure defined by law? It seems that Garda simply does not know.

    Did you read the statutory instruments you posted? The fees are set out as I stated (although they are in £'s not €'s) for both Section 41 seizures and obstruction. The S.I. also allows for the Gardaí to engage the services of a third party to perform the service of removing and storing the vehicles. There is nothing in relation to fees for this service. In Dublin the service is operated by way of tender and the prices would be se as part of this process.

    I suppose you could argue that this is contrary to the statutory instrument which doesn't specifically state that different fees can be charged when a third party is involved but you would have to run that by a solicitor.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    have a look at
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1973/en/si/0009.html

    Were you quoted vat inclusive prices by gannons?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11 wrb


    MagicSean wrote: »
    ...
    In Dublin the service is operated by way of tender and the prices would be se as part of this process.
    ...

    Exactly. It is common sense in the light of SI, but Garda mentions no tender in his
    answer. On top of that, from one of the letters from Garda
    The issues of fees are a matter between Gannons City Recovery
    and the owner of the towed vehicle.
    
    Year ago I have called Ballymun Garda Station (that's the Garda station involved in my case) and they refused to provide information about the tender.

    How could I obtain the text of the tender? Any ideas?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 wrb


    have a look at
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1973/en/si/0009.html

    Were you quoted vat inclusive prices by gannons?

    When collecting my car I was quoted VAT exclusive... and the price changed twice.

    The only letter I got from Gannons, which took them 2 months to produce because Garda forced them to, mentions no fees of course (and no answer to my question). No to forget that Gardai by whose order my car was seized mentioned different fee as well. :)

    I really regret I did not record the whole thing while talking to them over the phone or in person.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Gerry Moloy


    MagicSean wrote: »
    The current fees are €125 for towing and €35 for storage after the first day. I suggest you ask the towing company why you were charged storage and if you have no luck then write to the Superintendent of the district from which your car was towed.
    What happens if car removed wrongfully by Gardai?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Gerry Moloy


    MagicSean wrote: »
    The current fees are €125 for towing and €35 for storage after the first day. I suggest you ask the towing company why you were charged storage and if you have no luck then write to the Superintendent of the district from which your car was towed.
    What happens if car removed wrongfully and damaged at storage company?


  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mansoff


    My insurance was out of date Saturday at 12 noon and I got pulled this morning (Monday) going to work less than 48 hours out. The ban guard told me she has to take the car off me. I told her I would get insurance at 9am as I thought it wasn't up until the end of the month, have the same car 4 years always paid my insurance. I said while your pulling cars here I will wait and ring them at 9 when the insurance company opens. She said no. It takes an hour to collect the car and tow it to the towing site. At 9am I rang insurance got the disk and went to the guards station. I was so quick I had to wait in the guards station until the car was towed. Then I had to pay €125 release charge. They told me at the towing company for each day on site its an extra €35 and said they guards get all the money and just pay the towing company a hiring fee. Sickened Monday morning on my way to work hit with another tax.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Allinall


    mansoff wrote: »
    My insurance was out of date Saturday at 12 noon and I got pulled this morning (Monday) going to work less than 48 hours out. The ban guard told me she has to take the car off me. I told her I would get insurance at 9am as I thought it wasn't up until the end of the month, have the same car 4 years always paid my insurance. I said while your pulling cars here I will wait and ring them at 9 when the insurance company opens. She said no. It takes an hour to collect the car and tow it to the towing site. At 9am I rang insurance got the disk and went to the guards station. I was so quick I had to wait in the guards station until the car was towed. Then I had to pay €125 release charge. They told me at the towing company for each day on site its an extra €35 and said they guards get all the money and just pay the towing company a hiring fee. Sickened Monday morning on my way to work hit with another tax.

    That should be the least of your worries.

    Expect a summons to court for driving without insurance .


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,667 ✭✭✭whippet


    mansoff wrote: »
    My insurance was out of date Saturday at 12 noon and I got pulled this morning (Monday) going to work less than 48 hours out. The ban guard told me she has to take the car off me. I told her I would get insurance at 9am as I thought it wasn't up until the end of the month, have the same car 4 years always paid my insurance. I said while your pulling cars here I will wait and ring them at 9 when the insurance company opens. She said no. It takes an hour to collect the car and tow it to the towing site. At 9am I rang insurance got the disk and went to the guards station. I was so quick I had to wait in the guards station until the car was towed. Then I had to pay €125 release charge. They told me at the towing company for each day on site its an extra €35 and said they guards get all the money and just pay the towing company a hiring fee. Sickened Monday morning on my way to work hit with another tax.

    It ain’t a tax .... it’s a consequence of being caught driving without insurance. Oh ... expect a little summons in the post also for driving without insurance.

    Also .. the guards don’t get the money !!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭C3PO


    You were driving uninsured and you're looking for sympathy? Get a grip!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,812 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Allinall wrote: »
    That should be the least of your worries.

    Expect a summons to court for driving without insurance .

    And a much higher premium when you remember to insure the car again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    Surely you got a reminder off the insurance company telling you it was time to renew. You also have a disk on the window with an expiry date on it.

    *Gets off high horse


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    mansoff wrote: »
    Sickened Monday morning on my way to work hit with another tax.

    Where's the tax you were hit for?


    Imagine how sickened you be if the car was stolen from your house lasy night - or if you rear-ended a car on your way to work before you got re-insured?




  • The Garda was doing her job. You were driving an uninsured vehicle. A costly lesson.


  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mansoff


    Yep sure is ah well worse things could happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 wrb


    mansoff wrote: »
    [...]
    Then I had to pay €125 release charge. They told me at the towing company for each day on site its an extra €35 and said they guards get all the money and just pay the towing company a hiring fee.
    [...]

    Do you mind if I ask you if you get any paperwork from the Gardai?


  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mansoff


    I had renewed from the same insurance company for 5 years running it was a genuine mistake. It would have been faster and less hassle if I waited for 30 minutes and phoned to get insurance at 9am because it took more than 30 minutes for the towing company to get to my car. I was only out of insurance by Saturday noon and 9am Monday morning was the earliest to fix the problem.

    After the guards took my car I rang the insurance company at 9am got insurance. Presented the insurance form to the guards at 940am. Then I had to wait for about 25 minutes for the car to arrive at the towing company and then the guards gave me a release form to present to the towing garage. This release form was the only paper work I got from the guards. I went and collected my car.

    However later that evening after work I went back to the guards and showed them that my new insurance form stated that I was insured from the Saturday as I didn't want a conviction. The guard noted the date on the disk and entered information on the PC and told me now that should all be sorted. I asked the guard was I going to not going to have to go to court now and she said no you shouldn't. Fingers crossed I don’t get s summons to court. Thanks to the previous posts here for pointing that out to me.




  • I wonder would your insurance company have said that you were covered if the Garda was attending the scene of an accident that involved you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,060 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    can you get insurance retrospectively?


  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mansoff


    Yes I agree that the insurance company should only insure you when you pay but they back dated mine automatically. I think it maybe because your insurance runs out faster and have to renew sooner or maybe they auto renewed mine since I'm with them about 7 years or so and this was the next business day after my insurance expired.

    Regardless I don't think I will never again mix up the renewal date going forward


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    mansoff wrote: »
    Yes I agree that the insurance company should only insure you when you pay but they back dated mine automatically. I think it maybe because your insurance runs out faster and have to renew sooner or maybe they auto renewed mine since I'm with them about 7 years or so and this was the next business day after my insurance expired.

    Regardless I don't think I will never again mix up the renewal date going forward

    What you did was bone stupid.
    !. You had no insurance driving a car on the public road.
    2. You admitted to a Guard that you had no insurance.


    Had you said nothing and had the insurance backdated, you would have a beter chance of proving in court that you were insured at the relevant time but forgot to display the disk. You would probably had the case struck out with no fine and penalty points.

    You now face a possible ban from driving, penalty points and a loading on future premiums.

    The fact that you are whinging about the tow fee says it all really.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭mansoff


    I'm not stupid I just don't lie. I'm not whinging I just stating the facts. The guard looked at my insurance disk and she seen that it was outdated. She had it in her hand. What would happen if (following your advice) I told the guard I had insurance that is the old disk and I forgot to change the new disk? Yea right!! What if they checked up and I got caught out. I imagine I would be in much bigger trouble.

    Anyways I have nothing to worry about now but thanks for your concern


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