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Should we have professional hurling and football?

  • 29-02-2012 1:51pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭


    Just like the heading says, should we, and your reasons for saying yes or no?
    Maybe one of the mods could put a poll at the top of the thread.
    Hurling should have a pro game. Yes/No
    Football should have a pro game. Yes/No

    Thanks

    Should we have professional hurling and football? 15 votes

    Yes
    0% 0 votes
    No
    100% 15 votes


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭UnitedIrishman


    Don't think it's feasible but would like to see player compensated in some way for their efforts. Expenses are one thing but when you're getting 50c a mile and the price of petrol these days is through the roof, it doesn't really compensate players all that much for time spent a week training/playing.

    For example - a player I know well had this routine recently.

    Pre-league: Monday - weights training/skills tests; Tuesday - training; Wednesday - gym; Thursday - 2 hours of training; Friday - rest day. Saturday or Sunday - all day training session split in to two 2 hour sessions with fitness training followed by analysis, tactics etc or conditioned match.

    All those trainings/gym sessions are usually 1.5 hours or 2 hours and an hour travel to where it's on. So we'll say 17 hours+ of time spent training a week. Add to that a 30-35 hour working week and there's not much breathing room for doing much. Luckily the same lad is closer than most lads to where they train and when he was in college he had a 200 mile round trip to get home for it.

    There has to be some way the GAA can compensate players better than what they're getting at present. Everyone knows guys don't and won't just play for the money/expenses. So give them some sort of grant/pay, whatever is possible.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Should we - maybe
    Can we - no.

    the money just is not there to sustain it. People have at times compared the Aussie Rules model, and as an example, with only 18 teams, spent over $140 million on wages alone. Never mind the costs incurred directly by clubs for the day to day running of facilities, coaches etc. If hurling/football was to go professional, or even semi professional, I think it would cripple the whiole set up int he long run. Ireland is too small to get the level of TV competition and advertising etc to generate enough money for it to be sustainable. Clubs depend on the organisation as a whole to help them. Co Boards are already in debt and under financial pressure in the majority of counties as it is. I just cant see where the bottomless pit of money could come from.

    I'd be for it if someone could show me how you could generate money to sustain all the counties in each sport and if you could show how it wouldnt be detremental to local clubs losing players and if you could guarantee you wouldnt have players leaving small counties to go to better ones because they would be able to pay a bigger wage.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Can't have 2 polls on 1 thread by the looks for things :(

    I'll put 1 up poll to start with anyway to cover 2 sports :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭premierstone


    Agree that players put in a huge sacrifice and obviously the closer to the top of the game you arte the greater the sacrifice, but to make the GAA professional would ruin both codes at every level except the elite intercounty senior, would be financially unsustainable as teams would spend beyond their resources to keep pace and ultimately the strong will just get stronger and the weak weaker.

    Look at the Seanie Johnson case at the moment, if GAA was pro we would have one of these every week, infact under employment laws I think the parish rule and county rule would be lost forever as they are against employment laws, thus meaning the end of GAA as we know it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 535 ✭✭✭hisholinessnb


    No no and no. This would destroy the GAA, clubs are struggling as it is without starting to pay players salaries.

    There are so many reasons as to why this would be disastrous I really struggle to understand how anyone with a deep understanding, and love for, the GAA could possibly suggest it could be anything other than a disaster.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭mickmcl09


    Agree that players put in a huge sacrifice and obviously the closer to the top of the game you arte the greater the sacrifice, but to make the GAA professional would ruin both codes at every level except the elite intercounty senior, would be financially unsustainable as teams would spend beyond their resources to keep pace and ultimately the strong will just get stronger and the weak weaker.

    Look at the Seanie Johnson case at the moment, if GAA was pro we would have one of these every week, infact under employment laws I think the parish rule and county rule would be lost forever as they are against employment laws, thus meaning the end of GAA as we know it.

    Agree with you entirely.

    But if we were to have a pro game, would it make alot more sense to keep it entirely separate from the GAA as it is. Clubs and counties are struggling financially as it is, there is no doubt. Inflicting a pro game on the GAA as you say, would destroy it as we know it. That's my arguement for it being run as an entirely separate entity to the GAA and the GPA for that matter.

    Numbers wise I'd say 10-15 teams with 7-10 of those being Irish based, with other teams based in Asia, Australia, New York, Boston, Chicago, Canada, London and maybe a European based team.

    Financially, I've no doubt that it would be feasible in a Super 15 type format.

    I see one problem in all of this, similar to the Rugby Union Vs League in the early days. The GAA would have their noses out of joint if there was a break away organisation running a professional hurling / football league.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 FirePower


    Professionalism is inevitable.

    Anyone who thinks otherwise has, in my opinion, a serious case of headinsanditis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    mickmcl09 wrote: »
    Numbers wise I'd say 10-15 teams with 7-10 of those being Irish based, with other teams based in Asia, Australia, New York, Boston, Chicago, Canada, London and maybe a European based team.

    Financially, I've no doubt that it would be feasible in a Super 15 type format.

    How are you in no doubt that it would be feasible?
    How could you expect to get crowds at Chicago, NY, Boston or any European city that could make this idea work?

    I wouldn't be totally against it, just look at rugby...if the games went professional then the standard would no doubt improve as players fully concentrate on their sport.
    Considering how good Gaelic Football and Hurling are to watch at the minute the thought them being even more entertaining would be mouth watering but I cannot see in happening in the next 20 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭mickmcl09


    What sort of crowds would you think yourself, would come to these games?
    I think that it would not be beyond the realms to expect 7.5-15k people on average at the games @ €10 / head.

    A 15 team league. Home and away is 210 games.

    That's a minimum turnover of €15m before you go into franchise sales and tv rights and endorsements, not to mention team sponsorship which would be in the region of 300-750k per team. Based on that, if teams were limited to €2m per team of which €1.4m made up wages.....we're not far off the mark then in terms of feasibility.

    Something that surprises me on the thread is that some seem to think that we're talking of making the inter county scene professional, that is simply not possible.

    A pro game if it were to happen has to be a completely seperate organisation to the GAA as we know it.
    I also think that a pro game would take hugh pressure off the inter county scene in terms of commitment both personally for players and financial for county boards. Seems like a contradiction, but players that are obviously good enough could justify their commitment if they were paid Pro's.
    The existence of a pro game would also alleviate the pressure on county boards to spend 5,6,7 hundred thousand and more on senior teams.

    One other positive, top inter county teams would suffer most from the introduction of a pro game, making the current All-Ireland championship more open. In effect the pro game would act as a leveller for the inter county scene.

    Most Pro's in hurling would inevitably come from KK, Tipp, Cork, Galway which would mean teams like Waterford, Clare, Antrim even could fancy their chances to win an All Ireland. Same goes for Football.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    I really don't see how this would be feasible, in hurling anyway I don't see how you would get those sorts of crowds.

    At present only about 10-12 games per year would be over 15,000 in attendance and you are talking about over 200 games?

    Also if you are getting away from the county/province setup fans would have no loyalty to new regions so there is no real incentive to support a team. I think you are being overly optimistic with your attendance estimate. You also need to take into account the overall hostility to professionalism in the GAA.

    So would you have players moving between teams, similar to soccer where there is no loyalty to the area they are from? Sounds horrible to me. Also are players meant to shut up shop and move to all these cities around the world to set up teams also? Are you expecting 15,000 people to show up in San Francisco and all these other cities to support these new teams?

    I don't see it happening and as pointed out elsewhere it would kill off the club game and the inter county setup.

    I certainly hope it never happens anyway.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    mickmcl09 wrote: »
    What sort of crowds would you think yourself, would come to these games?
    I think that it would not be beyond the realms to expect 7.5-15k people on average at the games @ €10 / head.

    A 15 team league. Home and away is 210 games.

    That's a minimum turnover of €15m before you go into franchise sales and tv rights and endorsements, not to mention team sponsorship which would be in the region of 300-750k per team. Based on that, if teams were limited to €2m per team of which €1.4m made up wages.....we're not far off the mark then in terms of feasibility.

    Something that surprises me on the thread is that some seem to think that we're talking of making the inter county scene professional, that is simply not possible.

    A pro game if it were to happen has to be a completely seperate organisation to the GAA as we know it.
    I also think that a pro game would take hugh pressure off the inter county scene in terms of commitment both personally for players and financial for county boards. Seems like a contradiction, but players that are obviously good enough could justify their commitment if they were paid Pro's.
    The existence of a pro game would also alleviate the pressure on county boards to spend 5,6,7 hundred thousand and more on senior teams.

    One other positive, top inter county teams would suffer most from the introduction of a pro game, making the current All-Ireland championship more open. In effect the pro game would act as a leveller for the inter county scene.

    Most Pro's in hurling would inevitably come from KK, Tipp, Cork, Galway which would mean teams like Waterford, Clare, Antrim even could fancy their chances to win an All Ireland. Same goes for Football.

    you've obviously thought about this quite a bit, but to be honest, it sounds like awful pie in the sky. you can call me a 'diehard' if you want, but I'd prefer to be realistic about it.

    the 'pro game' wouldnt act as a leveller, it would drain counties of their best players, and it would take the few decent players from weaker counties, whilst the ones who already have deep talent would just be that much more better. and it would make the hurling championship absolutley redundant. There arent even 10 good teams in the AI championship now, and you think we could have 15?

    and where do these players come from? do they develop through clubs and then poached from the intercounty teams? who will support these teams? I know if a super league team was set up in my region, I'd still prefer to support my local club and county than some glorifed money making exercise.

    and where do they play these games? if they are not part of the GAA, then they would surely need to build their own stadiums.

    If they are to be professional players who train daily, they will need facilities. They will also need full time doctors, physios and coaches. Who pays for these?

    your scenario above would give players on average, what about €40k per annum? hardly anything to get worked up about.

    who pays the overheads insurance, travel costs to jet around the world to the other franchises?

    actually, I cant believe I'm getting duped into making a logical response to this. fair play for at least thinking outside the box, but bloody hell, the box is fairly far from reality!


  • Registered Users Posts: 967 ✭✭✭J Cheever Loophole


    No point in reinventing the wheel.
    bruschi wrote: »
    the money just is not there to sustain it. If hurling/football was to go professional, or even semi professional, I think it would cripple the whiole set up int he long run. Ireland is too small to get the level of TV competition and advertising etc to generate enough money for it to be sustainable.
    if GAA was pro we would have one of these every week, infact under employment laws I think the parish rule and county rule would be lost forever as they are against employment laws, thus meaning the end of GAA as we know it.

    What these gents said x 1,000,000.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 535 ✭✭✭hisholinessnb


    FirePower wrote: »
    Professionalism is inevitable.

    Anyone who thinks otherwise has, in my opinion, a serious case of headinsanditis.

    Not at all, we are just aware of what would destroy the GAA so would be against it.
    Just because it is new or different, doesn't make it right.


  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭mickmcl09


    Not at all, we are just aware of what would destroy the GAA so would be against it.
    Just because it is new or different, doesn't make it right.

    I wouldn't be saying that you suffer from 'headinsanditis' myself :D but if it's completely separate from the GAA how would it destroy it? And I do agree that just because somethings new or different doesn't necessarily mean it's right. I just think the possibilities should be explored. One thing is inevitable though, whether it happens soon or in 20 years, inter county players will receive some form of remuneration, well at least I'd be surprised if they don't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 FirePower


    Not at all, we are just aware of what would destroy the GAA so would be against it.
    Just because it is new or different, doesn't make it right.

    I said it once and I'll say it again, professionalism is inevitable.

    Rugby Union, Tennis and the Olympics all had their diehards who were convinced their sport would be forever amateur but look what happened in each case. What worries me is the GAA seem convinced it will never happen, they should at least have a plan in place outlining how they would handle the transition to professionalism. When rugby became open, they pretty much nosedived into it and the sport was chaos for a few years. Rugby in Scotland in particular never recovered.

    Professionalism will be driven by the players, who will pretty soon be the only ones involved in GAA who aren't payed (how crazy is that?). They wont care about the financial plausibility of it they'll just see things from their end and rightly so. They play a sport they love, they want to play it 24/7 rather than have to work as a PE teacher or bricklayer or whatever, the sport they play is very popular and a lot of people make a lot of money out of it and they want their slice of the pie. Professionalism in Rugby was driven primarily by the Aussies, who were constantly losing their talent to Aussie Rules or Rugby League (aka Mungoball). How much talent must the GAA lose to rugby and football every year as a result of amateurism!

    Professionalism would lead to a higher standard of play. Watch TG4 or ESPN classic and see rugby matches from 30 years ago. The game looks ridiculous compared to today's version.

    The GAA has a choice to make; they can either instigate the transition to professionalism, or they can sit back and eventually player unrest will lead to a JP McManus type figure swooping in. No player will refuse a professional contract and the fans will flock to wherever the highest standard of the game is played. People follow Gaelic games primarily because they find the sports entertaining not because of any affinity for the GAA.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    FirePower wrote: »
    I said it once and I'll say it again, professionalism is inevitable.

    Rugby Union, Tennis and the Olympics all had their diehards who were convinced their sport would be forever amateur but look what happened in each case. What worries me is the GAA seem convinced it will never happen, they should at least have a plan in place outlining how they would handle the transition to professionalism. When rugby became open, they pretty much nosedived into it and the sport was chaos for a few years. Rugby in Scotland in particular never recovered.

    Professionalism will be driven by the players, who will pretty soon be the only ones involved in GAA who aren't payed (how crazy is that?). They wont care about the financial plausibility of it they'll just see things from their end and rightly so. They play a sport they love, they want to play it 24/7 rather than have to work as a PE teacher or bricklayer or whatever, the sport they play is very popular and a lot of people make a lot of money out of it and they want their slice of the pie. Professionalism in Rugby was driven primarily by the Aussies, who were constantly losing their talent to Aussie Rules or Rugby League (aka Mungoball). How much talent must the GAA lose to rugby and football every year as a result of amateurism!

    Professionalism would lead to a higher standard of play. Watch TG4 or ESPN classic and see rugby matches from 30 years ago. The game looks ridiculous compared to today's version.

    The GAA has a choice to make; they can either instigate the transition to professionalism, or they can sit back and eventually player unrest will lead to a JP McManus type figure swooping in. No player will refuse a professional contract and the fans will flock to wherever the highest standard of the game is played. People follow Gaelic games primarily because they find the sports entertaining not because of any affinity for the GAA.

    all well and good. now, can you tell me where the money will come from.

    Rugby only made the transition to professionalism because of an international market. Aussie rules is in a country of 20+ million people with a competetive TV market.

    As for your point of how professionalism would make it better, and comparing rugby 30 years ago to now, thats a bit ridiculous to be honest. by the same token, watch a hurling game from 30 years ago and compare it to today. its the same comparison as your rugby one, the game has sped up hugely and the skills are vastly improved.

    If it was possible for some sort of pay, it would be good for the players. I can see some sort of payments being made in the future, but I dont know how it can be regulated or where the funding could come from.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 FirePower


    bruschi wrote: »
    all well and good. now, can you tell me where the money will come from.

    Rugby only made the transition to professionalism because of an international market. Aussie rules is in a country of 20+ million people with a competetive TV market.

    As for your point of how professionalism would make it better, and comparing rugby 30 years ago to now, thats a bit ridiculous to be honest. by the same token, watch a hurling game from 30 years ago and compare it to today. its the same comparison as your rugby one, the game has sped up hugely and the skills are vastly improved.

    If it was possible for some sort of pay, it would be good for the players. I can see some sort of payments being made in the future, but I dont know how it can be regulated or where the funding could come from.

    The GAA made a profit of €30 million in 2007, there's money to be made in gaelic games and this will attract investors. I doubt a player would ever be able to become mega rich out of it but if they could earn a living out of it they would be happy. Let's not forget that the GAA sold the TV rights to RTE even though Setanta offered significantly more money.
    I cant say how professionalism would exactly work, who could, but no way would every level of the GAA go pro. The clubs would probably stay amateur while a new "professional level" would emerge.

    For arguments sake lets envision a scenario;
    Lets say there are x amount of pro teams, each team can offer professional contracts to any amateur club player.
    The money comes from in part the GAA who get their money from TV revenue and advertising, selling naming rights to stadiums etc, the rest of the money comes from whatever money the team itself can garner, private investors, gate receipts etc.
    Salary caps to make sure teams don't go bust.
    A pro league beginning in say February with a grand final in Croker in September would be a good sell to the money men.
    Bonuses awarded to teams based on how far they got in the competition. This would result in more meaningful games and hence more interest.
    Not the best economic climate to do this obviously but we all know gaelic games are popular and a pro league could even attract new types of fans that dont traditionally follow the sports; Nordies, A lot of Dubs etc..
    A pro team in London or even Glasgow isn't completely ridiculous.
    The players wont ever be millionaires but with the right business acumen it could be sustainable. There would probably only be about 1000 pro players max.

    Note 1: The reason skills have improved is because players spend more time honing them, something which will increase even more so with professionalism.

    Note 2: 90% of Aussie Rules fans are from Victoria, the sport doesn't garner any where near nationwide interest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 515 ✭✭✭full_irish


    Simply, we can't afford a professional game.

    Semi-pro perhaps, but it isn't possible for us to support a professional game across 32 counties. Many of the teams already run at a loss before we start paying wages to players.
    There just isn't the interest at the lowers levels. Fair enough, you'll get 80,000+ for the big games at Croker but how do you expect to be able to afford to pay a 'professional' wage from the earnings you'd get from a league match in e.g 'Pearse Park'

    I just don't see how it's feasible financially. Never mind how it would rip the soul out of the game and potentially lead to a lot more Seanie Johnston style transfers


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,644 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    FirePower wrote: »
    People follow Gaelic games primarily because they find the sports entertaining not because of any affinity for the GAA.
    Not their affinity for the GAA, but for their club first and foremost, followed by their county. This is vital to the success of the GAA and cant be removed.

    Look at the Welsh rugby transition to professionalism, they are similar to the GAA here in that they had a large number of small clubs (Bridgend, Llanelli, Swansea, Cardiff, Newport, Neath, Pontypridd, etc.) with a fierce local support. When professionalism was introduced these clubs were amalgamated into five regional teams. Since then the fans have not bought into these regional teams and attendances for all have been disappointing. The Celtic Warriors was disbanded after only one year despite the region containing two of the strongest club sides in Wales immediately prior to professionalism and initially were considered one of the strongest line-ups of the five Welsh regions. Welsh rugby in general, and the Ospreys in particular, are now having big problems retaining their players. The Irish provinces had no problems in this regard because the game here was always based on regional teams and the fans identified with them. The evidence from rugby is that made up regional teams doesnt work so we are stuck with the club and county set up, which is too large to become professional.

    As for the argument that people will flock to see the best players is action, doesnt happen for the interpros so there is no substance to that idea. And just on that point, people dont care for the interpros because their club and county come first and the province in a long way behind, further backing up mu earlier point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭mickmcl09


    full_irish wrote: »
    Simply, we can't afford a professional game.

    Semi-pro perhaps, but it isn't possible for us to support a professional game across 32 counties. Many of the teams already run at a loss before we start paying wages to players.
    There just isn't the interest at the lowers levels. Fair enough, you'll get 80,000+ for the big games at Croker but how do you expect to be able to afford to pay a 'professional' wage from the earnings you'd get from a league match in e.g 'Pearse Park'

    I just don't see how it's feasible financially. Never mind how it would rip the soul out of the game and potentially lead to a lot more Seanie Johnston style transfers

    As you say, we couldn't afford a 32 county pro game and I think that's universally agreed.

    Could we afford a 15 team pro league? Based on Austrailian rules football and the population upon which their game is based, you'd have to say yes it is.

    Some posters have a hang up that if it's to be a pro game, it has to be 32 counties. LOL, we don't even have 32 hurling or football counties. Also, if we're to have a pro game, why should we turn our inter county provincial and all ireland championships into a pro (paid) profession?

    Playing for your club and county is first and foremost about the love of the game and pride in your jersey and the place you represent. And it should be left that way, amateur.

    The pro game that I visualise would be a completely separate organisation from the GAA.

    Assuming 15 teams. Hurling teams could be based in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, north Tipp/Offaly, KK and a Waterford team encompassing WX, Wat, south Tipp. The rest being foreign based teams.

    Football might have Dublinx2, Kerry, Cork, Galway/Mayo, Derry, Belfast, Tyrone and Armagh with the balance from abroad.

    Just watching the fitzgibbon right now. Lots of fellas playing that have the potential for a pro game and Sigerson won't be any different.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    you still haven't said where all the money is going to come from, considering at present the attendances are struggling to support an amateur game. Never mind the volunteers who keep the game going at present would be far less likely in a professional Environment, you'd have to pay everyone, the money is just not there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭mickmcl09


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »

    Look at the Welsh rugby transition to professionalism, they are similar to the GAA here in that they had a large number of small clubs (Bridgend, Llanelli, Swansea, Cardiff, Newport, Neath, Pontypridd, etc.) with a fierce local support. When professionalism was introduced these clubs were amalgamated into five regional teams. Since then the fans have not bought into these regional teams and attendances for all have been disappointing. The Celtic Warriors was disbanded after only one year despite the region containing two of the strongest club sides in Wales immediately prior to professionalism and initially were considered one of the strongest line-ups of the five Welsh regions. Welsh rugby in general, and the Ospreys in particular, are now having big problems retaining their players. The Irish provinces had no problems in this regard because the game here was always based on regional teams and the fans identified with them. The evidence from rugby is that made up regional teams doesnt work so we are stuck with the club and county set up, which is too large to become professional.

    As for the argument that people will flock to see the best players is action, doesnt happen for the interpros so there is no substance to that idea. And just on that point, people dont care for the interpros because their club and county come first and the province in a long way behind, further backing up mu earlier point.

    There's a major flaw to this comparison. Rugby is a globally professional game. The problems in Wales have alot to do with richer English and French clubs, so let's put that one to bed.

    Secondly, our inter Pro's. The current landscape for county managers means that the league and a few cup competitions present them with their opportunity to prepare for championship. So why would lads be interested in taking part if it could impinge on their chances of making a county team. And why would you go to see it in the cold when players are not at their best nevermind that you're not going to see the 15 best players representing your province. It's a joke of a competition ATM. I remember Railway cup matches in Ennis in the 80's held after the All Irelands and crowds exceeding 8/9k. All the best players would be on show.

    Ruby in Wales and the inter pro competition are simply not comparable to a pro hurling/football league.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    What? Let's put it to bed because it doesn't conform to your argument?

    You can't blame English and french clubs for the disastrous state of welsh rugby, most welsh players stayed in wales until very recently. Why then is irish rugby so strong?

    On the inter pros,the reason it hasn't been successful is it hasn't been given a chance. And I don't know if you've bothered to look at the lineups but the teams are very strong so the players obviously support it and people would turn out to support it if the gaa bothered to promote it.

    Instead they do nothing , no press coverage , no promotion, no tickets going to local schools, and they schedule it to clash with the NFL games and the 6 nations game...


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    FirePower wrote: »
    Professionalism is inevitable.

    Anyone who thinks otherwise has, in my opinion, a serious case of headinsanditis.

    and where is the money going to come from? county boards are losing millions a year, so who pays the players? croke park?

    lets say the kerry country board makes 300k in one year, but the louth county board loses 300k. you think the louth players would be happy to not be paid what they had agreed on, yet the kerry players all getting 20k each

    i dont think professionalism will ever come in, we cannot sustain professional sports in this country for more than about 100 players. its been tried in soccer and failed. only a small number of rugby players do it.

    i would like to see some form of payment come in and a % of gate receipts profit are paid to the players fund, which is then divided equally at the end of the year.

    but its s dodgy ground.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,020 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    A big fat no, no and no.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    mickmcl09 wrote: »
    Some posters have a hang up that if it's to be a pro game, it has to be 32 counties. LOL, we don't even have 32 hurling or football counties.

    Assuming 15 teams. Hurling teams could be based in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, north Tipp/Offaly, KK and a Waterford team encompassing WX, Wat, south Tipp. The rest being foreign based teams.

    Football might have Dublinx2, Kerry, Cork, Galway/Mayo, Derry, Belfast, Tyrone and Armagh with the balance from abroad.

    as you say yourself. LOL.

    I actually still cant believe you are still harping on about this. Its amusing at least.

    One quick question. These foreign teams, where do they get their players from? actually, a second one, which I asked earlier, where do they build their stadiums and facilites and get the money to do so?

    From what you have posted above, I'd have no interest in following it.

    Fair play to you at least, I'd say you are good at fantasy football and the likes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭randd1


    I think professionalism would be a disaster. There's just not enough money there for it to be feasible.

    I think a better expenses system, or a grant system in which each county team names a panel of 30 for the year in February and each player is given a grant of €3000 (half paid by the GAA, half by the County Board's) is more likely than full professionalism.


  • Registered Users, Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 15,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭rebel girl 15


    Pretty much everything I would post about the issue, bruschi has already

    Its simply not feasible for the sport to turn professional, the GPA (accused of being pay for play) have conducted a couple of studies and have come out and said it is not feasible.

    Have a fund for the players to go on holiday, or pay towards going on holiday. I know the Cork hurlers had a fund from local businesses, and it was used to pay for a holiday for the players, and their wives/girlfriends/children who give up so much of their time for their husband/boyfriend/fathers career. I think something like that as well as ensuring that the players have a complete back up service in regards being treated for injuries etc

    Its very dodgy ground - some county boards can hardly pay for gear for their county teams, for example I've heard Longford hurlers having to fundraise for their leisurewear, that should come without having to be asked for.

    Professionalism is not inevitable as one poster stated, the GPA and the GAA have come out strongly against it, as it is simply not feasible. Without the support of those two bodies, it hasn't a hope in hell of being inevitable. With the GAA clamping down on payments to managers, and many counties voting against paying intercounty managers, paying players is a far far off realm that unless the game goes on a much wider global scale, will not happen at all. They can hardly fund some of the Olympic athletes from the Sports Council, let alone 1000 pro players.

    Clubs are struggling for finances, and tbh Croke Park needs to be leaving more funds go to grassroots, than even thinking about something like professionalism!


  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭CajunPenguin


    I wanted to see a short private league in the style of "All-Star" matches in other sports like the short things they have in the American NBA. The players would get paid for their time in it and winners would get prizes for their club. Also the poc fada is a great idea and I think there should be other competitions like it and the winner gets a cash prize and maybe stuff for their club.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,930 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    How are you in no doubt that it would be feasible?
    How could you expect to get crowds at Chicago, NY, Boston or any European city that could make this idea work?

    I wouldn't be totally against it, just look at rugby...if the games went professional then the standard would no doubt improve as players fully concentrate on their sport.
    Considering how good Gaelic Football and Hurling are to watch at the minute the thought them being even more entertaining would be mouth watering but I cannot see in happening in the next 20 years.

    Rugby is a very bad example to use when advocating GAA going pro.

    Before pro rugby in Ireland the top level was the All Ireland league.
    Then when the game whent pro it was all condensed into 3 and a half franchises.
    Now no one gives a tupenny damn about the club game and all concentrate on how the franchises are getting in in the league and cup competitions.

    If GAA went pro then there would only be 6 teams in the country playing at a pro level.
    Kerry + one more in Munster
    Dublin + one more in Leinster
    One in Ulster
    One in Connaught
    That's about all the our market\economy could support.


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