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Anyone have a daily driver Nissan Leaf?
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Okay my above calculations were wrong based on U.S mpg, sorry!
Okay based on 55 imp mpg the calculations are......
55 imp mpg divide by 4.54 litres in imp gallon = 12.11 miles per litre.
So 22.50 Euro's worth of diesel would get you 14.54 Litres.
14.54 Litres x 12.11 miles = 176 miles or 990 Euro's for 7744 miles or 12500 kms
Electricity would cost 160 Euro's per year total cost €1150 or 95 Euro's per month total battery rental including electricity to cover 12500 kms per year.
€1150 worth of diesel would get you 741 litres of diesel or 8892 miles or 14000 kms.
So based on the new calculations using imp mpg you loose 1500 kms based on 55 mpg v battery rental on zoe, not bad at all. Indeed the 55 mpg figures will not be seen in town and could go as little as 40-45 lowering the miles got and narrowing the actual real life gap between battery rental and diesel.
Of course anyone driving a petrol should seriously consider the change because the zoe e.v would actually work out cheaper.
So really the argument of ev's costing far more are now old and do not apply regarding the Renault range of e.v's and is a very brave step for Renault who will actually loose out big time over the 3 years, but should gain back most of the battery costs towards the end of the life of the battery.
Renault also take the risk of the battery and it makes total sense to convert to ev unless your daily mileage exceeds 100 miles round trip, or you can not possibly cope with waiting 30 mins on a charger or can't charge at work.
Anyone who can hop on the luas at the mad cow can charge there for free atm. afaik ?0 -
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Until the day arrives where one can go to their electric station as distinct from a petrol station, where all battery packs are universal and there is a system like gas bottles re exchanging where you go to the station, exchange your battery pack for another and zoom/buzz whatever off for another 150km with or no fuss/time on the exchange I'll never even consider buying one of those buzz boxes.
Don't, continue to buy petrol or diesel. No one asked you to consider it!
You prefer ice cars, that's fine. Your choice, I'm not here to tell anyone to do anything they don't want to do!
The technology is light years away yet for a quick turnaround re recharge or exchange so in reality practicality using a volts car in my world is zero. Together with 25€k to buy one of these, I'd prefer to buy a 12k diesel golf and spend the rest on juice.
The leaf is already getting wireless charging, faster home charging and much more efficient heater, I would say that is light speed progression!
Nissan already have 10 min charging from 0, but have not said when we will be getting it!
I would rather an efficient, quiet, cheap to run e.v than pay for petrol or diesel than to have to listen to the rattle of a diesel any day. Esp a boring vw Golf. I would rather put my money towards a newer e.v than an older rattle box vw, and paying extortionate amounts of tax on an ice. They want to increase taxes on ev, fine then I will install solar panels and drive for almost free!Finally all this stuff of the world running out of oil is pure shoite. It's supply and demand and the economics model that is driving these prices.....go fly over the great expanses of northern Canada.....place is creaking at the seams with minerals that are yet to be explored.
People are more concerned about what it is costing them to run their cars more than where the energy required to charge them is coming from. And by using ev's it will help reduce consumption and cancer causing emissions and that is no bad thing as far as I'm concerned. A lot of wind energy can now be used to charge at night. Or install your own renewable energy.Roll on €2 a Litre and I'll get my dream Lexus 430 for free!
That's just talking crap for the sake of it now, really.
If you were so anti e.v, and pro ice, then why don't you convert to lpg ? and pay 69 cent-1.00 per liter compared to 1.66 ?0 -
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keithclancy wrote: »Its not that a Diesel is better, in a lot of cases its the only option thats fit for purpose.
An electric car would not be fit for purpose in my situation.
Even cost wise my current car works out cheaper, at this stage i'm paying a very reasonable amount by car pooling and getting my tax rebate every year + filling up at cheaper stations and not booting it everywhere.
Environmentally it would make more sense to get public transport.
There would only be very specific circumstances where it would make sense to have an electric car in my case anyway, plus i'd need a driveway to plug the thing in.
If I wasn't working so far away i'd get rid of the car altogether and cycle everywhere or use public transport and then rent a car (whatever fuel it uses) to do longer journeys.
Car is a luxury in the first place, Electric car is an expensive luxury for someone that doesn't buy a new car to begin with.
In the case of the Renault Zoe, it will cost around €16,500 and it's a high spec car and only fair to compare it to the higher spec diesel Cllio, and even then the Zoe is a higher spec car, the Higher spec Clio is about 18,500 Euro's, and an automatic version would see that cost around 20,000!
The battery rental including electricity costs (and I worked this out) works out as cheap as a 55 mpg car. Now that's 55 mpg per tank not per trip. And that's at today's fuel prices. Anyone in petrol car will save straight away. People who usually do city and town driving will not be wasting fuel and saving straight away.
E.V's also require very little maintenance.
So when Zoe is released, there will no longer be a valid argument about E.V's costing more then the ICE equivalent.
Sure you could by a car for 500 euro's and drive it until it dies and just pay for petrol. The only way ice cars will be cheaper from now on is to buy older and older cars.
I fully understand the range issue, Zoe is supposed to be more efficient, it's smaller than the Leaf so should have more range, that's unknown yet, but you will have the usual journalistic bull crap reviews where they get into the car and turn up the heat full blast and drive aggressively, all to prove a point!
For most people they are good enough. Borrow an ice car if you need range, if you can't wait at a charge point, or rent.
Zoe will also charge in an hour from any E.S.B public charge points, which are being upgraded to charge in 30 mins all from empty, so a charge will usually be less than an hour.
Anyone in apartments who can't yet charge can go somewhere there is a charge point while doing their shopping and it will be charged when they come out.
Don't forget the Renault Twizy is available to order now, and what a cool looking thing it is and perfect for local driving. I want one!
It's astonishing how fast electric vahicles are progressing, if only ice cars developed so fast, we could have had very fuel efficient cars decades ago!0 -
Deleted User wrote: »In the case of the Renault Zoe, it will cost around €16,500 and it's a high spec car and only fair to compare it to the higher spec diesel Cllio, and even then the Zoe is a higher spec car, the Higher spec Clio is about 18,500 Euro's, and an automatic version would see that cost around 20,000!
The battery rental including electricity costs (and I worked this out) works out as cheap as a 55 mpg car. Now that's 55 mpg per tank not per trip. And that's at today's fuel prices. Anyone in petrol car will save straight away. People who usually do city and town driving will not be wasting fuel and saving straight away.
E.V's also require very little maintenance.
So when Zoe is released, there will no longer be a valid argument about E.V's costing more then the ICE equivalent.
Sure you could by a car for 500 euro's and drive it until it dies and just pay for petrol. The only way ice cars will be cheaper from now on is to buy older and older cars.
I fully understand the range issue, Zoe is supposed to be more efficient, it's smaller than the Leaf so should have more range, that's unknown yet, but you will have the usual journalistic bull crap reviews where they get into the car and turn up the heat full blast and drive aggressively, all to prove a point!
For most people they are good enough. Borrow an ice car if you need range, if you can't wait at a charge point, or rent.
Zoe will also charge in an hour from any E.S.B public charge points, which are being upgraded to charge in 30 mins all from empty, so a charge will usually be less than an hour.
Anyone in apartments who can't yet charge can go somewhere there is a charge point while doing their shopping and it will be charged when they come out.
Don't forget the Renault Twizy is available to order now, and what a cool looking thing it is and perfect for local driving. I want one!
It's astonishing how fast electric vahicles are progressing, if only ice cars developed so fast, we could have had very fuel efficient cars decades ago!
I'm driving 40,000km / year in a 2.0 Diesel Volvo V50, excluding depreciation its costing me just shy of 500 euros per year inc Fuel, Tax, Insurance and Maintenance.
Reason for this is because my mileage to work is reclaimable and I share the costs via Car Pooling.
I drive 128km each way per day, its not very normal here to have a driveway and there are no charging points in work.
An electric car would only make sense as a runaround to go to the shops, but the initial outlay is far too much for this to make sense.
I bought my car when it was 5 years old, so the depreciation issue is not that bad.
Only type of car that would work out cheaper for me is LPG, Electric costs much much more in my case.0 -
I found this video of the Twizy on some back roads around Ibiza, apologies for the sound track, probably not to everyone's tastes. But the reviewer does appear to get some tyre squeal going around a corner or two Speed isn't amazing of course, but I guess the driving feeling from such a small car and lack of electronic aids probably helps improve the experience!
http://www.technologicvehicles.com/en/actualite-mobilite-verte/1693/video-essai-invasion-de-renault-twizy-a-ibizaDriveability
The chassis is responsive, steering precise, it only has a slight tendency to understeer.
On roundabouts this rear-wheel drive electric kart is super fun.0 -
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This is one of the reason electric cars will not easily become popular. People cant work out how much their current car costs.
Please explain to me how you can drive 40000kms in anything for €500. Utter nonsense!
In Germany you get 35 cent / kilometer to drive to work, hence the difference between my Travel Rebate and my Car costs including Carpooling for the year of 2010 was 476 euros.
Believe me, I know exactly how much its costs to get to work It's required to submit everything for my yearly Dutch / German return. 0 -
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keithclancy wrote: »This is one of the reason electric cars will not easily become popular. People cant work out how much their current car costs.
Please explain to me how you can drive 40000kms in anything for €500. Utter nonsense!
In Germany you get 35 cent / kilometer to drive to work, hence the difference between my Travel Rebate and my Car costs including Carpooling for the year of 2010 was 476 euros.
Believe me, I know exactly how much its costs to get to work It's required to submit everything for my yearly Dutch / German return.
Ok fair enough but that isn't exactly how u explained it the first time.
Would u not get the rebate even if u drove electric? Not comparing like with like.0 -
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keithclancy wrote: »Its not that a Diesel is better, in a lot of cases its the only option thats fit for purpose.
An electric car would not be fit for purpose in my situation.
Even cost wise my current car works out cheaper, at this stage i'm paying a very reasonable amount by car pooling and getting my tax rebate every year + filling up at cheaper stations and not booting it everywhere.
Environmentally it would make more sense to get public transport.
There would only be very specific circumstances where it would make sense to have an electric car in my case anyway, plus i'd need a driveway to plug the thing in.
If I wasn't working so far away i'd get rid of the car altogether and cycle everywhere or use public transport and then rent a car (whatever fuel it uses) to do longer journeys.
Car is a luxury in the first place, Electric car is an expensive luxury for someone that doesn't buy a new car to begin with.
A car is not a luxury to many people here I'm afraid. And an electric car could reduce the cost of driving tremendously.
AN electric car for most people who drive would be very suitable, in the case of the Renault Zoe. Which is as cheap to run as the diesel, cheaper if you take into account much less servicing needed on an e.v.
I converted my bicycle to electric, 62kph and less than 10 cent to charge for 10-12 miles 52-62 kph, I do all my local trips on it.
That is the cheapest form of local transport for me and saving me a fortune!
To think that most people sit in traffic for so many miles just to sit in their car with the heater on is absolute madness, I can't understand it.
That's why I think that Twizy has so much potential, if people only understood it's so wasteful to drive a car that can seat 5 when most of the time there is only 1 person in it.
I love my electric bike, and the acceleration is sooooo much fun, 110 lbs of torque fromt he second I hit the throttle is a whole lot of fun and cars are soooo boring now!
BY the way that's as much torque as a 1.6 102hp petrol VW Golf, with the weight of me and the bike!
I can also charge in 10 mins if I got a suitable charger, but 1 hour charging suits me fine!0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »To think that most people sit in traffic for so many miles just to sit in their car with the heater on is absolute madness, I can't understand it.
Indeed, thats why I have a flextime arrangement with Work, plus I have three routes I can take in the morning.That's why I think that Twizy has so much potential, if people only understood it's so wasteful to drive a car that can seat 5 when most of the time there is only 1 person in it.
Thats why I carpool to reduce my costs:
http://www.karzoo.nl
I have been keeping an eye on the Single seater car developments from VW and BMW, even looked at the Carver One (but they went bust)Deleted User wrote: »Ultra fast charging, lon battery life and a real range of 100 miles are far more important than carrying around a very expensive battery!
That's a serious commute in any one day, and not typical of most of the population.
When Nissan release their 10 min charging car, it will appeal to a lot more people.
And I can only commend Nissan and Renault for having the balls to invest so much in electric vehicles, shaming the Germans, who are light years behind, even Toyota!
Its not that serious a commute, its 1 hour and 18 minutes each way door to door. by Public Transport its 3 hrs 15 minutes each way door to door.
My Uncle does Clonmel <-> Cork every day and has been doing that for the last 15 years, its more typical than you'd think.
The range is irrelevant for me as there is no charging points at work and I do not have a driveway so i'd have to park somewhere near home and work to charge it, this would make me lose a portion of the time benefit I gain from driving by car.
As I said, its not suitable and probably will not be suitable or cheaper for me for the foreseeable future.
IMO for someone that buys a new car every 2 years then it would be cheaper to own/run an electric car. For someone that buys a 5 - 10 year old cars and maintains them properly it doesn't make sense for them either.
Electrics are only really suitable for early adopters, but it only makes sense if you want a new car (new for me is 3 - 5 years old )
The whole car is a luxury item thing, not going there, can of worms 0 -
keithclancy wrote: »Indeed, thats why I have a flextime arrangement with Work, plus I have three routes I can take in the morning.
Thats why I carpool to reduce my costs:
http://www.karzoo.nl
I have been keeping an eye on the Single seater car developments from VW and BMW, even looked at the Carver One (but they went bust)
Its not that serious a commute, its 1 hour and 18 minutes each way door to door. by Public Transport its 3 hrs 15 minutes each way door to door.
My Uncle does Clonmel <-> Cork every day and has been doing that for the last 15 years, its more typical than you'd think.
The range is irrelevant for me as there is no charging points at work and I do not have a driveway so i'd have to park somewhere near home and work to charge it, this would make me lose a portion of the time benefit I gain from driving by car.
As I said, its not suitable and probably will not be suitable or cheaper for me for the foreseeable future.
IMO for someone that buys a new car every 2 years then it would be cheaper to own/run an electric car. For someone that buys a 5 - 10 year old cars and maintains them properly it doesn't make sense for them either.
Electrics are only really suitable for early adopters, but it only makes sense if you want a new car (new for me is 3 - 5 years old )
The whole car is a luxury item thing, not going there, can of worms
The car is essential for me most of the time, but as I said the leccy bike does all my local miles, up to 20. The only thing that restricts me from further than 12 miles full speed ev only range is my choice of battery. I sized it to my needs and I like to pedal a lot.
Indeed, spend 2000 on a car and drive until death is the cheapest way, no one denies that it's cheaper to buy an old car than an e.v. But that will change as 2nd hand e.v's become available. In 3 years the Zoe would probably be got for 8,000 that's a cheap e.v and motor's last a lot longer than an ice, however they are not unknown to fail. But if engineered properly it should last the life of the car needing 0 maintenance. Once they become available at a reasonable cost, I will have one because I would rather spend more money on a better car than waste it on petrol or diesel !
The single biggest danger to electric motors is heat! I should know!
and hub motors are even better suited to e.v's because all that moves is the wheel.
Electric bikes are a fantastic alternative form of transport, and such fun, however the so called legal ugly boring bikes I can understand why people might not want to buy them, still they offer assistance and shouldn't be dismissed totally.
The E.U is changing the electric bicycle laws to allow unlimited power for those that need to pull loads, or heaver people or for climbing steep long hills where the limit of 250 watts is useless.
However the 15 mph speed limit and no throttle still applies, still it's progress.
What makes much better sense is a higher speed and have speed limit areas the same with cars. How many cars do we see well in excess of the 50 kph speed limit in built up areas ?0 -
Deleted User wrote: »The car is essential for me most of the time, but as I said the leccy bike does all my local miles, up to 20. The only thing that restricts me from further than 12 miles full speed ev only range is my choice of battery. I sized it to my needs and I like to pedal a lot.
Electric bikes are a fantastic alternative form of transport, and such fun, however the so called legal ugly boring bikes I can understand why people might not want to buy them, still they offer assistance and shouldn't be dismissed totally.
OT but
Deffo, I was looking at something like this if commuting by Train
http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B004JLO5SO/sr=8-4/qid=1334589258/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1334589258&sr=8-4&seller=
I also have a 'drinking' bike that I can afford to have robbed, the lock is worth more then the bike and a nicer more compfy beach cruiser for long day trips in the summer, dont need gears because the place is so flat 0 -
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keithclancy wrote: »OT but
Deffo, I was looking at something like this if commuting by Train
http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B004JLO5SO/sr=8-4/qid=1334589258/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1334589258&sr=8-4&seller=
I also have a 'drinking' bike that I can afford to have robbed, the lock is worth more then the bike and a nicer more compfy beach cruiser for long day trips in the summer, dont need gears because the place is so flat
Sure that would be ideal for the train, just not sure of the quality of the battery., at least they were honest and said it had a 500 cycle life. However charging after every ride (or as ofter as you can) will ensure longer life. Leaving it unused for more than a month wouldn't be advisable. 1 cycle is 100-0% 0-100%
You can always "hack" it for more speed, or put a throttle on it depending on the electronic controller used, though the motor and battery will probably be the most limiting factor.0 -
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![[Deleted User]](https://wc.vanillicon.com/v2/c35d4ce8a12792ca13fb381f4727ac6f.svg)
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